BSD link showing MS stole their TCPIP Stack.

BSD link showing MS stole their TCPIP Stack.

Post by Charlie Eber » Sun, 28 Apr 2002 00:08:12



This is old news to most but I felt it was necessary
to re-run it considering we have a pro-microsoft lobbyiest
here on COLA.

http://www.daemonnews.org/200108/dadvocate.html

If GPL'd code causes what Bill Gates says is an economic
loss in jobs, then Bill Gates must be refering to the
idiots he fired from Microsoft when they decided to
rip-off the BSD tcp/IP stack and use it in all
Windows products.

The lying going on by Microsoft and these paid lobbiests here
on Cola needs to end.

We've heard enough bullshit from Microsoft.

It's time to legally dissect MS into 5 chunks and
throw that corporate cancer to the wind.

Charlie

 
 
 

BSD link showing MS stole their TCPIP Stack.

Post by Daniel Tryb » Sun, 28 Apr 2002 00:16:39



> http://www.daemonnews.org/200108/dadvocate.html

AFAIK It's totally legal for MS to use the BSD TCP/IP stack in this way.
Why dou you think MS attacks the GPL and not the BSD license?

Quote:> If GPL'd code causes what Bill Gates says is an economic
> loss in jobs, then Bill Gates must be refering to the
> idiots he fired from Microsoft when they decided to
> rip-off the BSD tcp/IP stack and use it in all
> Windows products.

Why would people at MS get fired for using BSD licensed code?

--

  Daniel Tryba

 
 
 

BSD link showing MS stole their TCPIP Stack.

Post by Erik Funkenbusc » Sun, 28 Apr 2002 00:24:41



> http://www.daemonnews.org/200108/dadvocate.html

You'll notice that the article says that the analysis was done by a wall
street journal reporter.  As if he has the technical expertise to properly
analyze the "behaviors" and draw an informed conclusion.

I do respect Mr Lehey though, and he did at least make reference to the fact
that MS originally bought the stack from Spider.

Quote:> If GPL'd code causes what Bill Gates says is an economic
> loss in jobs, then Bill Gates must be refering to the
> idiots he fired from Microsoft when they decided to
> rip-off the BSD tcp/IP stack and use it in all
> Windows products.

Actually, MS used their rewritten TCP/IP stack in Win95 originally.  Only NT
3.1 had the BSD based stack, everything from 3.5 on up used MS's new stack.
 
 
 

BSD link showing MS stole their TCPIP Stack.

Post by Charlie Eber » Sun, 28 Apr 2002 00:36:33




>> http://www.daemonnews.org/200108/dadvocate.html

> AFAIK It's totally legal for MS to use the BSD TCP/IP stack in this way.
> Why dou you think MS attacks the GPL and not the BSD license?

>> If GPL'd code causes what Bill Gates says is an economic
>> loss in jobs, then Bill Gates must be refering to the
>> idiots he fired from Microsoft when they decided to
>> rip-off the BSD tcp/IP stack and use it in all
>> Windows products.

> Why would people at MS get fired for using BSD licensed code?

Well Bill says using GPL'd code is bad for your ecoonomy.

He should know as he's fired enough developers who could
have written honest code in favor of stealing BSD code.

Just one more example of the MS tradition of backstabbing
and thievary.

Charlie

 
 
 

BSD link showing MS stole their TCPIP Stack.

Post by Charlie Eber » Sun, 28 Apr 2002 00:38:01




>> http://www.daemonnews.org/200108/dadvocate.html

> You'll notice that the article says that the analysis was done by a wall
> street journal reporter.  As if he has the technical expertise to properly
> analyze the "behaviors" and draw an informed conclusion.

> I do respect Mr Lehey though, and he did at least make reference to the fact
> that MS originally bought the stack from Spider.

>> If GPL'd code causes what Bill Gates says is an economic
>> loss in jobs, then Bill Gates must be refering to the
>> idiots he fired from Microsoft when they decided to
>> rip-off the BSD tcp/IP stack and use it in all
>> Windows products.

> Actually, MS used their rewritten TCP/IP stack in Win95 originally.  Only NT
> 3.1 had the BSD based stack, everything from 3.5 on up used MS's new stack.

No they didn't Erik.  They've finger printed it.  It's still the same
old stack it always was.

They may have re-licensed the code but it's still the same code.

http://www.insecure.org/nmap/nmap-fingerprinting-article.html

You loose!

Thanks for playing

Charlie

 
 
 

BSD link showing MS stole their TCPIP Stack.

Post by Jason Bow » Sun, 28 Apr 2002 00:32:19




Quote:>This is old news to most but I felt it was necessary
>to re-run it considering we have a pro-microsoft lobbyiest
>here on COLA.

>http://www.daemonnews.org/200108/dadvocate.html

>If GPL'd code causes what Bill Gates says is an economic
>loss in jobs, then Bill Gates must be refering to the
>idiots he fired from Microsoft when they decided to
>rip-off the BSD tcp/IP stack and use it in all
>Windows products.

Read the BSD license and realize Microsoft used it completely legally.  
Microsoft is being very hypocritical when it attacks the GPL, it likes the
BSD license though.  It's been known for years that Microsft used the BSD
stack, so did Linux at one time.  There was a little stink a few months
back when it was discovered that one of the linux drivers, some ide stuff
I think, was taken from FreeBSD but not properly attributed to the
rightful copyright owner.
 
 
 

BSD link showing MS stole their TCPIP Stack.

Post by Charlie Eber » Sun, 28 Apr 2002 00:47:14





>>This is old news to most but I felt it was necessary
>>to re-run it considering we have a pro-microsoft lobbyiest
>>here on COLA.

>>http://www.veryComputer.com/

>>If GPL'd code causes what Bill Gates says is an economic
>>loss in jobs, then Bill Gates must be refering to the
>>idiots he fired from Microsoft when they decided to
>>rip-off the BSD tcp/IP stack and use it in all
>>Windows products.

> Read the BSD license and realize Microsoft used it completely legally.  
> Microsoft is being very hypocritical when it attacks the GPL, it likes the
> BSD license though.  It's been known for years that Microsft used the BSD
> stack, so did Linux at one time.  There was a little stink a few months
> back when it was discovered that one of the linux drivers, some ide stuff
> I think, was taken from FreeBSD but not properly attributed to the
> rightful copyright owner.

No they didn't.  At the time Erik *ingbush and the other nitwits
are mouthing off about, Windows 3.51 era, the BSD license REQUIRED
the 'STATE BOARD OF REGENTS CREDITS TO BE DISPLAYED UPON BOOTUP
OF THE OPERATING SYSTEM' if you were to use their license.

And this is why I say they STOLE THE CODE because they never
honored the license one time, not even today do they honor
the current BSD LICENSE REQUIREMENTS.

So that ended that argument right there.

They OWE the Board of Regents of the University of California
money.

Charlie

 
 
 

BSD link showing MS stole their TCPIP Stack.

Post by Donn Mille » Sun, 28 Apr 2002 01:41:15




> > http://www.daemonnews.org/200108/dadvocate.html

> You'll notice that the article says that the analysis was done by a wall
> street journal reporter.  As if he has the technical expertise to properly
> analyze the "behaviors" and draw an informed conclusion.

> I do respect Mr Lehey though, and he did at least make reference to the fact
> that MS originally bought the stack from Spider.
> Actually, MS used their rewritten TCP/IP stack in Win95 originally.  Only NT
> 3.1 had the BSD based stack, everything from 3.5 on up used MS's new stack.

Count on Erik to come to the defense of Microsoft.  Funkenbusch saves
the day! ;)

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BSD link showing MS stole their TCPIP Stack.

Post by Jason Bow » Sun, 28 Apr 2002 01:45:08







>>>This is old news to most but I felt it was necessary
>>>to re-run it considering we have a pro-microsoft lobbyiest
>>>here on COLA.

>>>http://www.veryComputer.com/

>>>If GPL'd code causes what Bill Gates says is an economic
>>>loss in jobs, then Bill Gates must be refering to the
>>>idiots he fired from Microsoft when they decided to
>>>rip-off the BSD tcp/IP stack and use it in all
>>>Windows products.

>> Read the BSD license and realize Microsoft used it completely legally.  
>> Microsoft is being very hypocritical when it attacks the GPL, it likes the
>> BSD license though.  It's been known for years that Microsft used the BSD
>> stack, so did Linux at one time.  There was a little stink a few months
>> back when it was discovered that one of the linux drivers, some ide stuff
>> I think, was taken from FreeBSD but not properly attributed to the
>> rightful copyright owner.

>No they didn't.  At the time Erik *ingbush and the other nitwits
>are mouthing off about, Windows 3.51 era, the BSD license REQUIRED
>the 'STATE BOARD OF REGENTS CREDITS TO BE DISPLAYED UPON BOOTUP
>OF THE OPERATING SYSTEM' if you were to use their license.

Yes, that's right, I forgot all about that, been a long time since I've
seen that message.

- Show quoted text -

Quote:>And this is why I say they STOLE THE CODE because they never
>honored the license one time, not even today do they honor
>the current BSD LICENSE REQUIREMENTS.

>So that ended that argument right there.

>They OWE the Board of Regents of the University of California
>money.

>Charlie

 
 
 

BSD link showing MS stole their TCPIP Stack.

Post by Erik Funkenbusc » Sun, 28 Apr 2002 01:52:32






>>> This is old news to most but I felt it was necessary
>>> to re-run it considering we have a pro-microsoft lobbyiest
>>> here on COLA.

>>> http://www.veryComputer.com/

>>> If GPL'd code causes what Bill Gates says is an economic
>>> loss in jobs, then Bill Gates must be refering to the
>>> idiots he fired from Microsoft when they decided to
>>> rip-off the BSD tcp/IP stack and use it in all
>>> Windows products.

>> Read the BSD license and realize Microsoft used it completely
>> legally. Microsoft is being very hypocritical when it attacks the
>> GPL, it likes the BSD license though.  It's been known for years
>> that Microsft used the BSD stack, so did Linux at one time.  There
>> was a little stink a few months back when it was discovered that one
>> of the linux drivers, some ide stuff I think, was taken from FreeBSD
>> but not properly attributed to the rightful copyright owner.

> No they didn't.  At the time Erik *ingbush and the other nitwits
> are mouthing off about, Windows 3.51 era, the BSD license REQUIRED
> the 'STATE BOARD OF REGENTS CREDITS TO BE DISPLAYED UPON BOOTUP
> OF THE OPERATING SYSTEM' if you were to use their license.

Sorry, but you really don't understand licenses, do you?  Just a few random
points

1)  The license of the code used is relevant, not the license of equivelant
code of that time.  The copyright on the code is 1983, AFAIK this was
several years before the BSDL free license was created.

2)  MS licensed the code, which may well have had alternate license
conditions even if what you said were true.

3)  There is nothing in any version of the BSD license which requires
copyright to be displayed when an Operating system is booted.

Quote:> And this is why I say they STOLE THE CODE because they never
> honored the license one time, not even today do they honor
> the current BSD LICENSE REQUIREMENTS.

Sure they do.  Where are they violating it?

Quote:> So that ended that argument right there.

> They OWE the Board of Regents of the University of California
> money.

For all you know, MS *DID* pay them a licensing fee.  Your proof that they
didn't is what?
 
 
 

BSD link showing MS stole their TCPIP Stack.

Post by Charlie Eber » Sun, 28 Apr 2002 02:43:44







>>>> This is old news to most but I felt it was necessary
>>>> to re-run it considering we have a pro-microsoft lobbyiest
>>>> here on COLA.

>>>> http://www.veryComputer.com/

>>>> If GPL'd code causes what Bill Gates says is an economic
>>>> loss in jobs, then Bill Gates must be refering to the
>>>> idiots he fired from Microsoft when they decided to
>>>> rip-off the BSD tcp/IP stack and use it in all
>>>> Windows products.

>>> Read the BSD license and realize Microsoft used it completely
>>> legally. Microsoft is being very hypocritical when it attacks the
>>> GPL, it likes the BSD license though.  It's been known for years
>>> that Microsft used the BSD stack, so did Linux at one time.  There
>>> was a little stink a few months back when it was discovered that one
>>> of the linux drivers, some ide stuff I think, was taken from FreeBSD
>>> but not properly attributed to the rightful copyright owner.

>> No they didn't.  At the time Erik *ingbush and the other nitwits
>> are mouthing off about, Windows 3.51 era, the BSD license REQUIRED
>> the 'STATE BOARD OF REGENTS CREDITS TO BE DISPLAYED UPON BOOTUP
>> OF THE OPERATING SYSTEM' if you were to use their license.

> Sorry, but you really don't understand licenses, do you?  Just a few random
> points

> 1)  The license of the code used is relevant, not the license of equivelant
> code of that time.  The copyright on the code is 1983, AFAIK this was
> several years before the BSDL free license was created.

> 2)  MS licensed the code, which may well have had alternate license
> conditions even if what you said were true.

> 3)  There is nothing in any version of the BSD license which requires
> copyright to be displayed when an Operating system is booted.

Yes there was.  It shows up in the login screens of AIX, HP-UX
and every other commercial product, Solaris ect which uses
BSD licensed code.

Care to try again?

Quote:>> And this is why I say they STOLE THE CODE because they never
>> honored the license one time, not even today do they honor
>> the current BSD LICENSE REQUIREMENTS.

> Sure they do.  Where are they violating it?

>> So that ended that argument right there.

>> They OWE the Board of Regents of the University of California
>> money.

> For all you know, MS *DID* pay them a licensing fee.  Your proof that they
> didn't is what?

Charlie
 
 
 

BSD link showing MS stole their TCPIP Stack.

Post by Linon » Sun, 28 Apr 2002 03:07:54


After takin' a swig o' grog, Charlie Ebert belched out this bit o' wisdom:

Quote:> Yes there was.  It shows up in the login screens of AIX, HP-UX
> and every other commercial product, Solaris ect which uses
> BSD licensed code.

> Care to try again?

>> For all you know, MS *DID* pay them a licensing fee.  Your proof that they
>> didn't is what?

I've been shelling into my main box to read news.
I'm migrating to a new machine.  Forgot to migrate the
killfile.

I noticed the difference in my tension right away.
Thanks for reminding me, Erik, why I don't like to
read your dance numbers.

Chris

--
The longest part of the journey is said to be the passing of the gate.
                -- Marcus Terentius Varro

 
 
 

1. Did MS really steal the BSD code?

How much of the Windows source code is actual BSD source code?
Obviously, the TCP/IP stack is BSD-derived, but what other parts would
be BSD?  Certainly not the graphics code.  The kernel code wouldn't be
either, as it's DOS-based for Win 9X and VMS based for Windows 2000/XP.

I see a lot of arguments against the BSD license being stated in claims
that MS has stolen the BSD code, and refused to abide by the BSD
license.  So, this is being given as a good reason not to use the BSD
license, because MS would have to make available the source code if they
had used any GPL'd code.  Therefore, the GPL comes out looking like the
good guy here.

So, my question is, what BSD code did Microsoft steal?  The only BSD
code they could have "embraced and extended" was the TCP/IP stack.  Big
deal.  So Windoze' networking would be much better than if MS had
written the TCP/IP stack from scratch.  Damn, that really pisses me off!

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2. Reading is much more interesting than TV (0898/1708)

3. kernel build 4.stable fails: bsd.init.mk, bsd.links.mk

4. Looking for monitor mode file for MAG DX15F

5. M$ Stole BSD Code?

6. How can I separate root filesystem and /usr filesystem

7. Win95 tcpip stacks and linux ???

8. Panasonic CD-R 7502 not supported ?

9. Linux tcpip stack/routing question

10. AXI TCPIP stack not not sending FIN when server program calls close(fd)

11. dialup/tcpip stack ok; cant get on 'net

12. tcpip stack bug on Linux!!

13. mutiple tcpip stack