Forte Agent v/s Leafnode and Slrn

Forte Agent v/s Leafnode and Slrn

Post by Terry Port » Sun, 04 Nov 2001 09:45:36



Hi all,

There is currently a long debate regarding this subject, and I
would like to get the *facts* sorted out.

Which way is better ?
Which way is more efficient ?
Who knows, I don't so I'm going to list the pros and cons as I see them
so lets have at it, and unleash the dogs of war ?

AGENT:
Cons:
* only one upline newsfeed

* only for Windows

* costs money

* monolith

* can only killfile on From:

*  Agent's killfiles are sufficient for dealing with jerks, but not
   with  malicious newsgroup flooding

LEAFNODE and Slrn
Pros:
* any number of upline newsfeeds ( I use three myself)

* Free

* news can be shared on a local network, giving *fast* news retrevial to
  any number of users

* fast and versatile score-filing (high and low scores)

* 'thread, then sort by score and subject' - a viewing mode that lists the
  articles with my favourite people and subjects first

*  can killfile on any header: line

* much faster and more versatile regular-expression scorefiling

--
* OSS is long-term credible ... FUD tactics can not be used to combat it.
  Free Micro Burner http://w3w.arafuraconnect.com.au/~tp/burn.html          
     ** Registration Number: 103931,  http://counter.li.org **

 
 
 

Forte Agent v/s Leafnode and Slrn

Post by pip » Sun, 04 Nov 2001 11:07:45



> Hi all,

> There is currently a long debate regarding this subject, and I
> would like to get the *facts* sorted out.

> Which way is better ?
> Which way is more efficient ?
> Who knows, I don't so I'm going to list the pros and cons as I see them
> so lets have at it, and unleash the dogs of war ?

How about Pan? There is a new version available as we type.

 
 
 

Forte Agent v/s Leafnode and Slrn

Post by Terry Port » Sun, 04 Nov 2001 12:18:33


On Sat, 03 Nov 2001 02:07:45 +0000, pip in article

dashed off:


>> Hi all,

>> There is currently a long debate regarding this subject, and I
>> would like to get the *facts* sorted out.

>> Which way is better ?
>> Which way is more efficient ?
>> Who knows, I don't so I'm going to list the pros and cons as I see them
>> so lets have at it, and unleash the dogs of war ?

>How about Pan? There is a new version available as we type.

Fair comment but I felt that Pan is too "Agent" like and would muddy the
waters ?

My Wife is actually using Pan at the moment, and fetching news from
my news spool, and for new user, Pan is definetly easier to use
than Slrn, tho she's been using Slrn intermittently till now.

I installed the version that is on Debian stable which is
pan 0.7.6-1, I may grab the latest tarball and make a deb out of it.

But feel free to run a Pan v/s anything comparo if you want or even
combine it into this thread ?

--
* OSS is long-term credible ... FUD tactics can not be used to combat it.
  Free Micro Burner http://w3w.arafuraconnect.com.au/~tp/burn.html          
     ** Registration Number: 103931,  http://counter.li.org **

 
 
 

Forte Agent v/s Leafnode and Slrn

Post by Tim Smit » Sun, 04 Nov 2001 12:53:44


Quote:>Which way is better ?
>Which way is more efficient ?
>Who knows, I don't so I'm going to list the pros and cons as I see them
>so lets have at it, and unleash the dogs of war ?

They don't really do the same job, so the comparison is not really
valid.

Things like Agent are aimed at people who are interested in a small
percentage of the articles in the groups they subscribe to, and are
connected to the news server via a slow link, possibly with connect
time charges, and do not want to devote a lot of space to holding
messages.  Agent handles this very well.  It is a tribute to its good
design that it also works acceptably where you are reading most of the
articles in a group, and/or have a fast cheap connection.

--Tim Smith

 
 
 

Forte Agent v/s Leafnode and Slrn

Post by Ian Pege » Sun, 04 Nov 2001 17:17:48



> On Sat, 03 Nov 2001 02:07:45 +0000, pip in article


>>> Hi all,

>>> There is currently a long debate regarding this subject, and I would
>>> like to get the *facts* sorted out.

>>> Which way is better ?
>>> Which way is more efficient ?
>>> Who knows, I don't so I'm going to list the pros and cons as I see
>>> them so lets have at it, and unleash the dogs of war ?

>>How about Pan? There is a new version available as we type.

> Fair comment but I felt that Pan is too "Agent" like and would muddy the
> waters ?

> My Wife is actually using Pan at the moment, and fetching news from my
> news spool, and for new user, Pan is definetly easier to use than Slrn,
> tho she's been using Slrn intermittently till now.

> I installed the version that is on Debian stable which is pan 0.7.6-1, I
> may grab the latest tarball and make a deb out of it.

> But feel free to run a Pan v/s anything comparo if you want or even
> combine it into this thread ?

This is Pan 0.11.0. First Impressions are that it is great. Love the
different colour coding for quoted messages. They've moved some of the
furniture around so it'll take a while to find alll the settings, but so
far the experience is pleasant.

--
Ian
"An onion is a thing of joy forever"
                    Pegelism No. 253

 
 
 

Forte Agent v/s Leafnode and Slrn

Post by Mart van de Weg » Sun, 04 Nov 2001 20:28:03



Quote:

> This is Pan 0.11.0. First Impressions are that it is great. Love the different
> colour coding for quoted messages. They've moved some of the furniture around
> so it'll take a while to find alll the settings, but so far the experience is
> pleasant.

Ian,

Have they fixed that bug where Pan crashes if you select a group it is still
threading? That one is driving me up the wall. It is consistent so it is easy
to avoid, but I have gotten in the habit of <Shift-A> and immediately click on
the group I want to read. It is irritating to have to wait every time till Pan
is done threading all my subscribed groups.

Mart

--
A dirty mind is a joy forever
Its sleaziness will never cease

 
 
 

Forte Agent v/s Leafnode and Slrn

Post by Michael Si » Mon, 05 Nov 2001 00:30:53




>AGENT:
>Cons:
>* can only killfile on From:

Untrue.  Agent supports kill or watch filters on either the Subject
line or the From line.  Additionally it supports boolean expressions,
allows you to filter based on message size, and allows you to set
filter priorities.  If that isn't enough for you you can also filter
based on regular expressions.

Disclaimer: I'm not an Agent salesman, and I have no idea whether or
not it's better or worse than Leafnode/Slrn.  Just contributing some
facts.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Sims
mhsims at midsouth dot rr dot com

"Yesterday it worked.
Today it is not working.
Windows is like that."
---------------------------------------------------------------------

 
 
 

Forte Agent v/s Leafnode and Slrn

Post by Peter Haye » Mon, 05 Nov 2001 19:58:09




Quote:

> Hi all,

> There is currently a long debate regarding this subject, and I
> would like to get the *facts* sorted out.

> Which way is better ?
> Which way is more efficient ?
> Who knows, I don't so I'm going to list the pros and cons as I see them
> so lets have at it, and unleash the dogs of war ?

> AGENT:
> Cons:
> * only one upline newsfeed

> * only for Windows

> * costs money

> * monolith

> * can only killfile on From:

> *  Agent's killfiles are sufficient for dealing with jerks, but not
>    with  malicious newsgroup flooding

> LEAFNODE and Slrn
> Pros:
> * any number of upline newsfeeds ( I use three myself)

> * Free

> * news can be shared on a local network, giving *fast* news retrevial to
>   any number of users

Indeed. And one of the users could be using Agent.

Thereby keeping everybody happy :)

A rare event indeed.

Peter

 
 
 

Forte Agent v/s Leafnode and Slrn

Post by Terry Port » Mon, 05 Nov 2001 22:10:44


On Sun, 04 Nov 2001 10:58:09 +0000, Peter Hayes in article

Quote:>> LEAFNODE and Slrn
>> Pros:
>> * any number of upline newsfeeds ( I use three myself)

>> * Free

>> * news can be shared on a local network, giving *fast* news retrevial to
>>   any number of users

>Indeed. And one of the users could be using Agent.

>Thereby keeping everybody happy :)

>A rare event indeed.

>Peter

Hahhahah, well said :)

--
* OSS is long-term credible ... FUD tactics can not be used to combat it.
  Free Micro Burner http://w3w.arafuraconnect.com.au/~tp/burn.html          
     ** Registration Number: 103931,  http://counter.li.org **

 
 
 

Forte Agent v/s Leafnode and Slrn

Post by Ian Pege » Tue, 06 Nov 2001 00:01:52




>> This is Pan 0.11.0. First Impressions are that it is great. Love the
>> different colour coding for quoted messages. They've moved some of the
>> furniture around so it'll take a while to find alll the settings, but
>> so far the experience is pleasant.

> Ian,

> Have they fixed that bug where Pan crashes if you select a group it is
> still threading? That one is driving me up the wall. It is consistent so
> it is easy to avoid, but I have gotten in the habit of <Shift-A> and
> immediately click on the group I want to read. It is irritating to have
> to wait every time till Pan is done threading all my subscribed groups.

> Mart

They seem to say so on the website. Personally, I've never experienced
any pain with Pan, but it's good to see the potential for suffering so
greatly reduced.

I love the multicoloured messages...

--
Ian
"An onion is a thing of joy forever"
                    Pegelism No. 253

 
 
 

Forte Agent v/s Leafnode and Slrn

Post by Jerry McBri » Tue, 06 Nov 2001 00:51:54


On Sat, 03 Nov 2001 02:07:45 +0000, pip



>> Hi all,

>> There is currently a long debate regarding this subject, and I
>> would like to get the *facts* sorted out.

>> Which way is better ?
>> Which way is more efficient ?
>> Who knows, I don't so I'm going to list the pros and cons as I see them
>> so lets have at it, and unleash the dogs of war ?

>How about Pan? There is a new version available as we type.

I love PAN... but to use it under KDE you HAVE to install most of
GNOME before it'll run. For that single reason I dropped it in favor
of FREEAGENT... I'd rather run a windows emulator than another windows
manager!!!!
 
 
 

Forte Agent v/s Leafnode and Slrn

Post by Jim Richardso » Tue, 06 Nov 2001 04:37:44



> On Sat, 03 Nov 2001 02:07:45 +0000, pip in article

> dashed off:

>>> Hi all,

>>> There is currently a long debate regarding this subject, and I
>>> would like to get the *facts* sorted out.

>>> Which way is better ?
>>> Which way is more efficient ?
>>> Who knows, I don't so I'm going to list the pros and cons as I see them
>>> so lets have at it, and unleash the dogs of war ?

>>How about Pan? There is a new version available as we type.

> Fair comment but I felt that Pan is too "Agent" like and would muddy the
> waters ?

> My Wife is actually using Pan at the moment, and fetching news from
> my news spool, and for new user, Pan is definetly easier to use
> than Slrn, tho she's been using Slrn intermittently till now.

> I installed the version that is on Debian stable which is
> pan 0.7.6-1, I may grab the latest tarball and make a deb out of it.

> But feel free to run a Pan v/s anything comparo if you want or even
> combine it into this thread ?

I'll do a bit of that :)

I use slrn most of the time, sometimes, I use pan (0.10.0.93 currently)
mostly for binaries newsgroups.

Slrn has speed and stability all over pan, slrn has never crashed in
the last 4 years since I started using it. Not once. Pan however, has
crashed quite often, although it is much better now than a few versions
ago. There are some memory leaks in the code, or at least, that's what
it appears to me to be. Having said that, Pan is "mostly stable" and the
binaries features are nice. I like the paned approach, and I like having
the option of tabbed windows instead. One thing slrn doesn't do, is
allow you to edit a followup whilst you read other messages. This may
sound silly, but sometimes it's nice to be able to check something that
someone said, or look a message or two ahead to see if someone else
covered a point. However, it's no problem with slrn to ^Z the editor (I
use vim) and read whatever messages you want, and then continue with the
edit. Pan can either work off of a local spool via leafnode or whatever,
or a remote spool. Either way. It can also use your .newsrc file which
is nice. Over all I prefer slrn, but I can see the day coming when that
might change if pan's improvement continues apace. Pan's scoring is not
as good as slrn's, but from what others have said, it's far better than
agent's. Slrn can pipe a message to a shell, which is a very useful, but
somewhat less common need for newbies.
 I would recommend Knode or Pan for newbies, or those who just have to
have a gui app, Knode has most of the features of pan, and seems to be
a bit more stable, but I don't use it enough to say for sure. Slrn is
definately a great console app, I don't need/want tons of real estate
devoted to icons and menus I only use once in a while.
 Bit rambling, but there you are, that's my humble opinion.

--
Jim Richardson
        Anarchist, pagan and proud of it
www.eskimo.com/~warlock
        Linux, because life's too short for a buggy OS.

 
 
 

Forte Agent v/s Leafnode and Slrn

Post by Jim Richardso » Tue, 06 Nov 2001 04:40:03





>>AGENT:
>>Cons:
>>* can only killfile on From:

> Untrue.  Agent supports kill or watch filters on either the Subject
> line or the From line.  Additionally it supports boolean expressions,
> allows you to filter based on message size, and allows you to set
> filter priorities.  If that isn't enough for you you can also filter
> based on regular expressions.

you can only filter on the from or subject line? that's sort of..
limiting isn't it?

Quote:> Disclaimer: I'm not an Agent salesman, and I have no idea whether or
> not it's better or worse than Leafnode/Slrn.  Just contributing some
> facts.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Michael Sims
> mhsims at midsouth dot rr dot com

> "Yesterday it worked.
> Today it is not working.
> Windows is like that."
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------

--
Jim Richardson
        Anarchist, pagan and proud of it
www.eskimo.com/~warlock
        Linux, because life's too short for a buggy OS.
 
 
 

Forte Agent v/s Leafnode and Slrn

Post by Peter Haye » Tue, 06 Nov 2001 05:18:38



>  I would recommend Knode or Pan for newbies, or those who just have to
> have a gui app, Knode has most of the features of pan, and seems to be
> a bit more stable,

The latest Knode, 0.6, has this annoying bug of sometimes appearing not
to despatch posts from the outbox and then freezing. Sometimes it can be
shut down gracefully, sometimes it has to be killed. If it's killed all
the messages read in that session suddenly aren't logged as read any
more. And the outbox still shows messages. Sending them again will
result in duplicate postings.

I made a bug report, but it appears to be fixed so wait for 0.7

Quote:> Slrn is definately a great console app,

How can I see threads that have been read? They "disappear" from the
listing. If there's something in the manual I've missed it...

Peter

 
 
 

Forte Agent v/s Leafnode and Slrn

Post by Michael Si » Tue, 06 Nov 2001 08:28:18




Quote:>you can only filter on the from or subject line? that's sort of..
>limiting isn't it?

I suppose it is, but I've never personally had any need to filter
based on anything else.  I *think* it's possible to filter based on
the message body content, but I'm not positive on that.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Sims
mhsims at midsouth dot rr dot com

"Yesterday it worked.
Today it is not working.
Windows is like that."
---------------------------------------------------------------------

 
 
 

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Is the fetchnews finishing correctly?  What does it say if you run
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I'm assuming that's the Debian packages.  Could you please file a bug
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newsreaders too?

--

            http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~broonie/
EUFS        http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/filmsoc/

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