True Type Redux

True Type Redux

Post by Peter Nelso » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00



Down below in the "Lack of True Types" fonts thread
I'm embroiled in several philosophical discussions about
usability in Linux.   Little did I realize that this has more
immediate implications for me  . . .

As a Linux newbie I'm busy getting things set up.  The other
day I got my Linux machine Loki talking to my proxy server
(running on an NT machine) and going out over the Internet.
The first thing I noticed in Netscape (Caldera's distro of
Netscape 4.61) is that the fonts *SUCK*.   (They're no great
shakes in other apps like Star Office, either).   I haven't
even tried to print from Loki yet - that will happen in a couple
of weeks when we get our new HP 970cse and Loki gets
to own our LJIIp.

So what's up with the fonts?   I've heard two theories:
1.  Lack of True Type fonts.
2.  Most web pages target Microsoft fonts so they look bad on
everything else.

I'm skeptical about #2 because they even look bad on Linux
oriented websites like www.kde.org, or www.linuxdoc.org

Why should truetype fonts matter so much for display?  (I
could see why they might be an issue for printing)

Also, what are the licensing issues for using TrueType technology?
Apple licensed the technology to Microsoft.   By what licensing rights
to Linux users have access to it?

Assuming there are no licensing issues what's the best way to get
and install TrueType fonts for Loki?

---peter

 
 
 

True Type Redux

Post by DHobb » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00



> Down below in the "Lack of True Types" fonts thread
> I'm embroiled in several philosophical discussions about
> usability in Linux.   Little did I realize that this has more
> immediate implications for me  . . .

> As a Linux newbie I'm busy getting things set up.  The other
> day I got my Linux machine Loki talking to my proxy server
> (running on an NT machine) and going out over the Internet.
> The first thing I noticed in Netscape (Caldera's distro of
> Netscape 4.61) is that the fonts *SUCK*.   (They're no great
> shakes in other apps like Star Office, either).   I haven't
> even tried to print from Loki yet - that will happen in a couple
> of weeks when we get our new HP 970cse and Loki gets
> to own our LJIIp.

As they come, they ARE miserable.  I'm not using true type but Netscape
does have EDIT->Preferences->Appearance->Fonts and you can play with the
font settings.  I'm using Lucida (B&H) 12.0 for variable and Clean
(Schumacher) 10.0 for fixed width and they look pretty good both on this
(17") and my home (21") monitors.

Quote:> Assuming there are no licensing issues what's the best way to get
> and install TrueType fonts for Loki?

http://www.fokus.gmd.de/linux/lg/issue28/ayers1.html

Dan

 
 
 

True Type Redux

Post by Rod Smi » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00


[Posted and mailed]



Quote:

> The first thing I noticed in Netscape (Caldera's distro of
> Netscape 4.61) is that the fonts *SUCK*.   (They're no great
> shakes in other apps like Star Office, either).   I haven't
> even tried to print from Loki yet - that will happen in a couple
> of weeks when we get our new HP 970cse and Loki gets
> to own our LJIIp.

> So what's up with the fonts?   I've heard two theories:
> 1.  Lack of True Type fonts.
> 2.  Most web pages target Microsoft fonts so they look bad on
> everything else.

> I'm skeptical about #2 because they even look bad on Linux
> oriented websites like www.kde.org, or www.linuxdoc.org

There's some truth to both of them, but more generally, the answer is that
the fonts that ship with Linux just aren't all that great. TrueType fonts
have the POTENTIAL to look better than PostScript fonts at typical screen
resolutions, but that potential is met by only a few fonts, and the best
PostScript fonts can look pretty good, too. If you're used to Microsoft
Windows, you're probably used to the best available TrueType fonts,
though, since the ones Microsoft ships (and installs for web use with
various products) are among the best available.

Concerning web pages "targeting" Microsoft fonts, that does occur -- a lot
of web pages use font changing codes and make the assumption that you're
running a Microsoft OS with a certain set of fonts available. If those
assumptions aren't met, the fonts may come out too small, too large, or in
some ugly substitute font (generally Courier).

Quote:> Why should truetype fonts matter so much for display?  (I
> could see why they might be an issue for printing)

Actually, for printing PostScript Type 1 fonts are at least as good as
TrueType fonts; the hinting features of TrueType give it the potential
for better results at *LOW* resolutions.

Quote:> Also, what are the licensing issues for using TrueType technology?
> Apple licensed the technology to Microsoft.   By what licensing rights
> to Linux users have access to it?

AFAIK, there are no insuperable patent issues with TrueType technology.
The bigger issue is font availability. Fortunately, Microsoft has made
some fonts that are excellent for screen display purposes available for
free, although not for redistribution. They can be obtained from:

http://www.microsoft.com/typography/fontpack/default.htm

Download the Windows 3.1 versions; these are just zip files with .exe
extensions, IIRC, so you can extract them with unzip on Linux. These fonts
are the same as the ones they bundle with Internet Explorer.

Quote:> Assuming there are no licensing issues what's the best way to get
> and install TrueType fonts for Loki?

There are several TrueType rasterizers available for Linux. You can find
more details about how to set them up on:

http://www.frii.com/~meldroc/Font-Deuglification.html

For optimum use on the web, you need to give the fonts the specific names
that web authoring tools use. Here's an excerpt from my fonts.dir file
that includes appropriate names for the Microsoft fonts:

arial.ttf -monotype-arial-medium-r-normal--0-0-0-0-p-0-iso8859-1
arialbd.ttf -monotype-arial-bold-r-normal--0-0-0-0-p-0-iso8859-1
ariali.ttf -monotype-arial-medium-i-normal--0-0-0-0-p-0-iso8859-1
arialbi.ttf -monotype-arial-bold-i-normal--0-0-0-0-p-0-iso8859-1
comic.ttf -microsoft-comic sans ms-demibold-r-normal--0-0-0-0-p-0-iso8859-1
comicbd.ttf -microsoft-comic sans ms-bold-r-normal--0-0-0-0-p-0-iso8859-1
cour.ttf -monotype-courier new-medium-r-normal--0-0-0-0-m-0-iso8859-1
courbd.ttf -monotype-courier new-bold-r-normal--0-0-0-0-m-0-iso8859-1
couri.ttf -monotype-courier new-medium-i-normal--0-0-0-0-m-0-iso8859-1
courbi.ttf -monotype-courier new-bold-i-normal--0-0-0-0-m-0-iso8859-1
georgia.ttf -microsoft-georgia-medium-r-normal--0-0-0-0-p-0-iso8859-1
georgiab.ttf -microsoft-georgia-bold-r-normal--0-0-0-0-p-0-iso8859-1
georgiai.ttf -microsoft-georgia-medium-i-normal--0-0-0-0-p-0-iso8859-1
georgiaz.ttf -microsoft-georgia-bold-i-normal--0-0-0-0-p-0-iso8859-1
impact.ttf -monotype-impact-bold-r-condensed--0-0-0-0-p-0-iso8859-1
monotype.ttf -monotype-monotypecom-medium-r-normal--0-0-0-0-m-0-iso8859-1
times.ttf -monotype-times new roman-medium-r-normal--0-0-0-0-p-0-iso8859-1
timesbd.ttf -monotype-times new roman-bold-r-normal--0-0-0-0-p-0-iso8859-1
timesi.ttf -monotype-times new roman-medium-i-normal--0-0-0-0-p-0-iso8859-1
timesbi.ttf -monotype-times new roman-bold-i-normal--0-0-0-0-p-0-iso8859-1
trebuc.ttf -microsoft-trebuchet ms-medium-r-normal--0-0-0-0-p-0-iso8859-1
trebucbd.ttf -microsoft-trebuchet ms-bold-r-normal--0-0-0-0-p-0-iso8859-1
trebucbi.ttf -microsoft-trebuchet ms-bold-i-normal--0-0-0-0-p-0-iso8859-1
trebucit.ttf -microsoft-trebuchet ms-medium-i-normal--0-0-0-0-p-0-iso8859-1
verdana.ttf -microsoft-verdana-medium-r-normal--0-0-0-0-p-0-iso8859-1
verdanab.ttf -microsoft-verdana-bold-r-normal--0-0-0-0-p-0-iso8859-1
verdanai.ttf -microsoft-verdana-medium-i-normal--0-0-0-0-p-0-iso8859-1
verdanaz.ttf -microsoft-verdana-bold-i-normal--0-0-0-0-p-0-iso8859-1
webdings.ttf -monotype-webdings-medium-r-normal--0-0-0-0-p-0-microsoft-symbol

--

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~smithrod
Author of _Special Edition Using Corel WordPerfect 8 for Linux_, from Que

 
 
 

True Type Redux

Post by Tim Kelle » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00


websites like www.kde.org, or www.linuxdoc.org

Quote:

> Why should truetype fonts matter so much for display?  (I
> could see why they might be an issue for printing)

Actually, it's the other way 'round: the postscript fonts that
linux uses look better printed than true type, which is meant
exclusively for displays, not printers.

You can get true type working under linux these days without too
much hassle.  xfs is fairly straightforward.  If you have a
network you can use one machine to serve tt fonts to the whole
network, all you have to do is make a little change to the
XF86Config

--
Tim Kelley

"If evolution is outlawed only outlaws will evolve"

 
 
 

True Type Redux

Post by Donovan Rebbec » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00



>So what's up with the fonts?   I've heard two theories:
>1.  Lack of True Type fonts.

This is the main one.

Quote:>2.  Most web pages target Microsoft fonts so they look bad on
>everything else.

More or less equivalent to #1.

Quote:>I'm skeptical about #2 because they even look bad on Linux
>oriented websites like www.kde.org, or www.linuxdoc.org

>Why should truetype fonts matter so much for display?  (I

They are more suited to the screen

Quote:>could see why they might be an issue for printing)

.... than they are for printing ( where linux does fine )

Quote:>Also, what are the licensing issues for using TrueType technology?

There are patent problems.

Also, there are very few free true type fonts. This is the main problem
with "availability". They are available in abundance, but not available
with free licenses.

Quote:>Assuming there are no licensing issues what's the best way to get
>and install TrueType fonts for Loki?

For printing, true type fonts are not a major help , in fact printing
true type fonts may be more difficult because linux likes PS for
printing. You are better off trying to find some good
postscript fonts.

--
Donovan

 
 
 

True Type Redux

Post by Donal K. Fello » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00




> Also, there are very few free true type fonts. This is the main problem
> with "availability". They are available in abundance, but not available
> with free licenses.

There are very few free fonts.  Period.  It might be worthwhile some
group pooling together to purchase a set of fonts from a really good
font designer to make freely available to all and sundry.

Anyone for founding the Free Font Foundation?

Donal.
--

-- The small advantage of not having California being part of my country would
   be overweighed by having California as a heavily-armed rabid weasel on our

 
 
 

True Type Redux

Post by Hal Burgi » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00






>> Also, there are very few free true type fonts. This is the main
>> problem with "availability". They are available in abundance, but not
>> available with free licenses.

>There are very few free fonts.  Period.  It might be worthwhile some
>group pooling together to purchase a set of fonts from a really good
>font designer to make freely available to all and sundry.

>Anyone for founding the Free Font Foundation?

Somewhere it was noted that Corel is including some TrueTypes. Where are
these coming from? Are they Corel's? If so, maybe they should donate to
the cause.

--
Hal B

--
            Linux helps those who help themselves

 
 
 

True Type Redux

Post by Darren Winsp » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00



> Somewhere it was noted that Corel is including some TrueTypes. Where are
> these coming from? Are they Corel's? If so, maybe they should donate to
> the cause.

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if they already were free in the
open source sense.

--
Darren Winsper - http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/darren.winsper
Stellar Legacy project member - http://www.stellarlegacy.tsx.org

"Microsoft stated that they had very little Monopoly power," stated
Jackson in his findings of fact, "However, upon closer investigation,
we found that not only did they own all the properties on two entire
sides of the board, they also had three houses on Boardwalk and Park Place!"
        --http://www.segfault.org/story.phtml?mode=2&id=3825b6d8-019cd640

 
 
 

1. True Type Fonts to PostScript Type 1

Does anyone know where to get the ttf2pt1
package from?

Thanks
Jeremy Maccelari
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