Linux good for your career?

Linux good for your career?

Post by The Studen » Wed, 12 Mar 2003 01:20:21



I've been tinkering with linux for just past a year now, having tinkered my
way into a firewall, an internet server (email, web, etc.), family app
server, blah blah blah.

The funny thing is that I do not use Linux at work, since I work on an
MS-only product.  

But at work, when they need a unix man, they come to me.  Everybody knows
that I am "just a hobbyist", but sometimes that is all you need.  

You see, if you want to do small-scale stuff on either *nix, Win, or Mac,
you can do just fine.  But if you have a taste for the big time, you must
be able to do system integration, and for that you have to make both the
Win admins (ignorant, frightened, and insecure), and the *nix admins
(knowledgeable, but also frightened and insecure) understand that you
understand them.  

So when the room is full of uncomfortable *nix dudes on the client side and
a bunch of Win dudes on the vendor side, you step in and switch into the
mother-tongue (as opposed to the language of Redmond, which I shall not
utter here), you can watch them relax and calm down.   It's not enough to
say "We really want to help and we'll try hard."  You've got to speak their
language, and Linux is a great way to learn it.  

My own employer is moving into larger and larger systems, and the ability to
jaw with the *nix admins is now coming into practically every sale.

Is there a future in Linux?  I don't worry anymore, because Linux already
has such a large role in the present.

--
The Student

 
 
 

Linux good for your career?

Post by Bo Grime » Wed, 12 Mar 2003 01:43:07



> The funny thing is that I do not use Linux at work, since I work on an
> MS-only product.

> But at work, when they need a unix man, they come to me.  Everybody knows
> that I am "just a hobbyist", but sometimes that is all you need.

Nice to see you posting again.  Excellent post.  


From Linux Administration Handbook 1:9, p. 15 (way over my head, btw):

[Some abbreviations, paraphrases  and lack punctuation used for brevity]

"System admin wear many hats.  In the real world they often have other jobs
who have been asked to look after the pc.  If you are in this sit. you may
want to think about where it might lead."

"The more you learn about your system, the more the user community will come
to depend on you.  Networks invariably grow and you may be pressured to
spend more time on admin.  You will soon find you're the only person in
your org who knows how to preform a variety of tasks."

"Once coworkers come to think of you as the local sys admin, it is difficult
to extricate yourself from this role if you want to.  Since many admin
tasks are intangible you may be expected to b both a full-time admin and a
full-time [insert your job here].

"Some admins get cranky and provide poor service when forced to do this, but
we don't recommend that.  Instead we suggest you document the time you
spend on sys admin.  Your goal should be to keep work at a manageable level
and gather documentation you can use to ask to be relieved of admin duty."

"On the other hand you may find you enjoy sys admin and you yearn to be a
full -time admin.  Your prospects for employment are good. [your point]"

Thought this might interest you.

--
Bo G
"Mankind does nothing save through initiatives on the part of inventors,
great or small, and imitation by the rest of us. Individuals show the way,
set the patterns.  The rivalry of the patterns is the history of the
world." (William James)  Linus is just such an inventor; Linux is just such
a pattern.

 
 
 

Linux good for your career?

Post by Erik Funkenbusc » Wed, 12 Mar 2003 02:07:03



> I've been tinkering with linux for just past a year now, having tinkered my
> way into a firewall, an internet server (email, web, etc.), family app
> server, blah blah blah.

> The funny thing is that I do not use Linux at work, since I work on an
> MS-only product.  

Funny, but haven't you told us repeatedly how you run Windows 2000 inside
VMWare on your Linux box at work?

I guess that didn't work out too well for you.

 
 
 

Linux good for your career?

Post by Bo Grime » Wed, 12 Mar 2003 02:27:50




>> I've been tinkering with linux for just past a year now, having tinkered
>> my way into a firewall, an internet server (email, web, etc.), family app
>> server, blah blah blah.

>> The funny thing is that I do not use Linux at work, since I work on an
>> MS-only product.

> Funny, but haven't you told us repeatedly how you run Windows 2000 inside
> VMWare on your Linux box at work?

> I guess that didn't work out too well for you.

Funny, I didn't see anything in his post that contradicts his assertion that
on his work computer he uses VMWare to do his Windows work.

You know, if you died tomorrow and I lived to be a hundred, I wouldn't learn
as much about computers and software as you know right now.  I simply don't
have the time, inclination, need or interest to learn that much about
either.

That being the case, why, when it suits your purposes, do you pretend to be
thick as a stump?

--
Bo G
"Mankind does nothing save through initiatives on the part of inventors,
great or small, and imitation by the rest of us. Individuals show the way,
set the patterns.  The rivalry of the patterns is the history of the
world." (William James)  Linus is just such an inventor; Linux is just such
a pattern.

 
 
 

Linux good for your career?

Post by Erik Funkenbusc » Wed, 12 Mar 2003 02:35:21





>>> I've been tinkering with linux for just past a year now, having tinkered
>>> my way into a firewall, an internet server (email, web, etc.), family app
>>> server, blah blah blah.

>>> The funny thing is that I do not use Linux at work, since I work on an
>>> MS-only product.

>> Funny, but haven't you told us repeatedly how you run Windows 2000 inside
>> VMWare on your Linux box at work?

>> I guess that didn't work out too well for you.

> Funny, I didn't see anything in his post that contradicts his assertion that
> on his work computer he uses VMWare to do his Windows work.

You mean, other than "The funny thing is that I do not use Linux at work"?
 
 
 

Linux good for your career?

Post by T. Max Devli » Tue, 11 Mar 2003 21:48:25


In comp.os.linux.advocacy, I heard Erik Funkenbusch say:




>>>> I've been tinkering with linux for just past a year now, having tinkered
>>>> my way into a firewall, an internet server (email, web, etc.), family app
>>>> server, blah blah blah.

>>>> The funny thing is that I do not use Linux at work, since I work on an
>>>> MS-only product.

>>> Funny, but haven't you told us repeatedly how you run Windows 2000 inside
>>> VMWare on your Linux box at work?

>>> I guess that didn't work out too well for you.

>> Funny, I didn't see anything in his post that contradicts his assertion that
>> on his work computer he uses VMWare to do his Windows work.

>You mean, other than "The funny thing is that I do not use Linux at work"?

No, he meant the other part, about how

"You know, if you died tomorrow and I lived to be a hundred, I wouldn't learn
as much about computers and software as you know right now.  I simply don't
have the time, inclination, need or interest to learn that much about
either.

That being the case, why, when it suits your purposes, do you pretend to be
thick as a stump?"

--
T. Max Devlin
  *** The best way to convince another is
          to state your case moderately and
             accurately.   - Benjamin Franklin ***

 
 
 

Linux good for your career?

Post by GreyClou » Wed, 12 Mar 2003 02:47:24




> > I've been tinkering with linux for just past a year now, having tinkered my
> > way into a firewall, an internet server (email, web, etc.), family app
> > server, blah blah blah.

> > The funny thing is that I do not use Linux at work, since I work on an
> > MS-only product.

> Funny, but haven't you told us repeatedly how you run Windows 2000 inside
> VMWare on your Linux box at work?

> I guess that didn't work out too well for you.

Running Win2k doesn't work out very well for a lot of
people.
 
 
 

Linux good for your career?

Post by Bo Grime » Wed, 12 Mar 2003 02:59:08






>>>> I've been tinkering with linux for just past a year now, having
>>>> tinkered my way into a firewall, an internet server (email, web, etc.),
>>>> family app server, blah blah blah.

>>>> The funny thing is that I do not use Linux at work, since I work on an
>>>> MS-only product.

>>> Funny, but haven't you told us repeatedly how you run Windows 2000
>>> inside VMWare on your Linux box at work?

>>> I guess that didn't work out too well for you.

>> Funny, I didn't see anything in his post that contradicts his assertion
>> that on his work computer he uses VMWare to do his Windows work.

> You mean, other than "The funny thing is that I do not use Linux at work"?

Hmmm....I didn't actually read what you quoted in my haste to go eat dinner,
only your reply.  Shouldn't have been quite so quick to quip, in this case.

However, IIRC he said that he sort of set that up on the sly at work, but I
when I read the OP the first time I took it to mean "I have to use MS
products to do my work" and wasn't referring to GNU/Linux so much as
specific apps.

But, since he has you killfiled I'll just bow out, post this so he sees it,
and let him anwser that question in he wants to.

--
Bo G
"Mankind does nothing save through initiatives on the part of inventors,
great or small, and imitation by the rest of us. Individuals show the way,
set the patterns.  The rivalry of the patterns is the history of the
world." (William James)  Linus is just such an inventor; Linux is just such
a pattern.

 
 
 

Linux good for your career?

Post by The Studen » Wed, 12 Mar 2003 03:08:24


Quoting unnamed sources, GreyCloud claimed:



>> > I've been tinkering with linux for just past a year now, having
>> > tinkered my way into a firewall, an internet server (email, web, etc.),
>> > family app server, blah blah blah.

>> > The funny thing is that I do not use Linux at work, since I work on an
>> > MS-only product.

>> Funny, but haven't you told us repeatedly how you run Windows 2000 inside
>> VMWare on your Linux box at work?

>> I guess that didn't work out too well for you.

> Running Win2k doesn't work out very well for a lot of
> people.

Ewik don't listen too well.  I run Win2k under vmware on the laptop.  

Like shooting fish in a barrel, that's why he's kf'd.

--
The Student

 
 
 

Linux good for your career?

Post by The Studen » Wed, 12 Mar 2003 03:11:02


Quoting unnamed sources, Bo Grimes claimed:


>> The funny thing is that I do not use Linux at work, since I work on an
>> MS-only product.

>> But at work, when they need a unix man, they come to me.  Everybody knows
>> that I am "just a hobbyist", but sometimes that is all you need.

> Nice to see you posting again.  Excellent post.


> From Linux Administration Handbook 1:9, p. 15 (way over my head, btw):

> [Some abbreviations, paraphrases  and lack punctuation used for brevity]

> "System admin wear many hats.  In the real world they often have other
> jobs
> who have been asked to look after the pc.  If you are in this sit. you may
> want to think about where it might lead."

> "The more you learn about your system, the more the user community will
> come
> to depend on you.  Networks invariably grow and you may be pressured to
> spend more time on admin.  You will soon find you're the only person in
> your org who knows how to preform a variety of tasks."

> "Once coworkers come to think of you as the local sys admin, it is
> difficult
> to extricate yourself from this role if you want to.  Since many admin
> tasks are intangible you may be expected to b both a full-time admin and a
> full-time [insert your job here].

> "Some admins get cranky and provide poor service when forced to do this,
> but
> we don't recommend that.  Instead we suggest you document the time you
> spend on sys admin.  Your goal should be to keep work at a manageable
> level and gather documentation you can use to ask to be relieved of admin
> duty."

> "On the other hand you may find you enjoy sys admin and you yearn to be a
> full -time admin.  Your prospects for employment are good. [your point]"

> Thought this might interest you.

It has often crossed my mind to leave programming for sysadmin.  My last job
was data processing, which was a fascinating combination of *making* and
*using*, and in this job I also have divided responsibilities.

I guess you might say its fun to do both so long as its fun, if you know
what I mean :)

--
The Student

 
 
 

Linux good for your career?

Post by COLA Moderato » Wed, 12 Mar 2003 15:27:28



Quote:> I've been tinkering with linux for just past a year now, having tinkered
my
> way into a firewall, an internet server (email, web, etc.), family app
> server, blah blah blah.

> The funny thing is that I do not use Linux at work, since I work on an
> MS-only product.

> But at work, when they need a unix man, they come to me.  Everybody knows
> that I am "just a hobbyist", but sometimes that is all you need.

> You see, if you want to do small-scale stuff on either *nix, Win, or Mac,
> you can do just fine.  But if you have a taste for the big time, you must
> be able to do system integration, and for that you have to make both the
> Win admins (ignorant, frightened, and insecure), and the *nix admins
> (knowledgeable, but also frightened and insecure) understand that you
> understand them.

> So when the room is full of uncomfortable *nix dudes on the client side
and
> a bunch of Win dudes on the vendor side, you step in and switch into the
> mother-tongue (as opposed to the language of Redmond, which I shall not
> utter here), you can watch them relax and calm down.   It's not enough to
> say "We really want to help and we'll try hard."  You've got to speak
their
> language, and Linux is a great way to learn it.

> My own employer is moving into larger and larger systems, and the ability
to
> jaw with the *nix admins is now coming into practically every sale.

> Is there a future in Linux?

Keep playing with Linux for entertainmentm at home. Now, for real $$$work$$$
and to earn the respect of your peers in the IT industry, you need to be a
Windows guru, a real pro. Better yet, take it all the way to the top, become
an MCSE and you'll be trated like GOD by the employers and the big buck will
follow you where ever you go!

I don't worry anymore, because Linux already

Quote:> has such a large role in the present.

No it doesn't. Linux users amount for less than 3% of the computer users.
Windows OTOT is what over 90% of the world prefers. So do the math: 3% vs.
90% -- Now you know!!!

COLA Moderator
---

 
 
 

Linux good for your career?

Post by Daero » Wed, 12 Mar 2003 16:43:05


On Tue, 11 Mar 2003 00:07:03 GMT, "Erik Funkenbusch"



>> I've been tinkering with linux for just past a year now, having tinkered my
>> way into a firewall, an internet server (email, web, etc.), family app
>> server, blah blah blah.

>> The funny thing is that I do not use Linux at work, since I work on an
>> MS-only product.  

>Funny, but haven't you told us repeatedly how you run Windows 2000 inside
>VMWare on your Linux box at work?

>I guess that didn't work out too well for you.

Fuddie, always ready with helpfull advice and encouragement  <snort>
 
 
 

Linux good for your career?

Post by Rex Ballar » Wed, 12 Mar 2003 20:55:32





>>I've been tinkering with linux for just past a year now, having tinkered

>>You see, if you want to do small-scale stuff on either *nix, Win, or Mac,
>>you can do just fine.  But if you have a taste for the big time, you must
>>be able to do system integration, and for that you have to make both the
>>Win admins (ignorant, frightened, and insecure), and the *nix admins
>>(knowledgeable, but also frightened and insecure) understand that you
>>understand them.

This is really the key.  You can't be "Pure Windows" or "Pure
Linux/UNIX, you need to be effective on both platforms.

Quote:

>>My own employer is moving into larger and larger systems, and the ability
>> to jaw with the *nix admins is now coming into practically every sale.

>>Is there a future in Linux?

> Keep playing with Linux for entertainmentm at home. Now, for real $$$work$$$
> and to earn the respect of your peers in the IT industry, you need to be a
> Windows guru, a real pro. Better yet, take it all the way to the top, become
> an MCSE and you'll be trated like GOD by the employers and the big buck will
> follow you where ever you go!

That used to be true.  But more and more, IT managers are
looking for people who can be effective in both platforms.  IT
Managers have gotten gun-shy about having NT Gurus come in and
claim that NT can do anything, then have the project turn into a
runaway budget because it doesn't scale well, or because there
are DLL conflicts, or because the CALs for the middleware server
are being rated based on the database "connection".

At the same time, Windows isn't going away completely either.
Even when companies decide to adopt Linux for workstations, part
of the solution requires knowledge of Windows and knowing what
options are available for supporting internal applications that
are still on Windows.

Quote:> I don't worry anymore, because Linux already
>>has such a large role in the present.

> No it doesn't. Linux users amount for less than 3% of the computer users.

But Linux now makes up about 40% of the world's servers.  NT
also has about 40%, but each NT server does less work, and there
  is more redundancy needed for NT servers.  While UNIX servers
only make up 20% of the total count, they are also big machines
that do lots of work.  Recently Linux server count growth has
slowed because so many companies that have lots of smaller Linux
servers have been switching to Linux on 390 servers, if you
counted ZVM images instead of big black boxes, the Linux count
would be much higher.

Quote:> Windows OTOT is what over 90% of the world prefers. So do the math: 3% vs.
> 90% -- Now you know!!!

This is the desktop market.  Linux is now Microsoft's biggest
competitor with a market share slightly larger than the Mac, but
as you say, Microsoft controls about 90% of the U.S. market and
about 85% of the global market.  Linux is rapidly growing while
Microsoft unit volume sales (Microsoft to OEMs and Corps) are
flat, and actual shipments to customers (OEMs to Customers) have
been dropping significantly.

The irony is that Microsoft's bundling has made it legal for
Linux users to integrate Microsoft technologies into Linux
(since the OEM produced PCs have been licensed, the DLLs and
applications can be used under Linux VMs and WINE.

Microsoft has been very worried about Linux since 1994, and has
resorted to numerous tactics to try and aggressively keep Linux
off of the market.  These tactics range from illegal contract
terms, to punishing writers and publications who praise Linux,
to paid trolls and troublemakers, to NDAs which are intended to
prevent Linux from working on the newest PCs.  They have even
restricted advertizing and marketing of Linux by OEMs.

The illegal contract terms were ruled as illegal by the Appeals
court in the DOJ antitrust case, and the settlement means
Microsoft cannot appeal the ruling of law.  Terms such as
forbidding OEMs to tamper with the boot strategy, or forbidding
the use of Windows as a Linux VM/Bochs client, or forbidding the
use of Open Source (cygwin) on Linux are other examples of
illegal terms which have been nullfied by the appeals court ruling.

Since the remedy only covered damaged itemized during the
antitrust trial (due to Judge Jackson's restriction to 25
witnesses), any company excluded as a result of these contract
terms has to press a separate case.  This means companies like
Red Hat, Caldera, Corel, SuSE, and Mandrake could all collect
damages pretty easily.

Microsoft's primary concern is that once OEMs start installing
and testing Linux, and putting Linux on all of their computers,
that Linux would become as easy to use as Windows.  If all the
user has to do to run Linux is flip a switch or press a key,
then Linux may have too much to offer.  Microsoft could very
quickly lose market share.

This is what Microsoft fears, and with all of the trolling in
COLA, all of the claims that windows is better, Microsoft is
taking absolutely no chances of letting Linux get a really
strong foothold in the OEM channels or the desktop market.

Until I can go to a retail store and fiddle with a running Linux
system on a desktop and/or laptop PC, which I can purchase on
the spot, all claims of Microsoft superiority are just smoke and
mirrors to divert attention from all of Microsoft's efforts to
PREVENT any REAL competition.

Microsoft wants to have a knife fight, but Linux has to be
handcuffed (hands behind back), ankle cuffs, and blindfolded.

Quote:> COLA Moderator
> ---

 
 
 

Linux good for your career?

Post by bill » Wed, 12 Mar 2003 23:12:40



> Now, for real $$$work$$$
> and to earn the respect of your peers in the IT industry, you need to be a
> Windows guru, a real pro. Better yet, take it all the way to the top, become
> an MCSE and you'll be trated like GOD by the employers and the big buck will
> follow you where ever you go!

lmao

Quote:> I don't worry anymore, because Linux already
> > has such a large role in the present.

> No it doesn't. Linux users amount for less than 3% of the computer users.
> Windows OTOT is what over 90% of the world prefers. So do the math: 3% vs.
> 90% -- Now you know!!!

on the desktop maybe,  but who want's to be an 18 yr old looking after
PC's all their life.

Quote:> COLA Moderator
> ---

a passing stranger
 
 
 

1. Is a career in AIX Unix a good career move?

Scott,

A few things to consider:

1.  What kind of salary are they offering?  If it is the same as you present
salary (and I hope
     that it isn't) then:

2.  Where do you want to be in say 10 years?

3.  Define on-call.  If you don't have to wear a pager or carry a cell phone
then you're not on call.

4.  What is your promotion path?

5.  What kind of application will run on the AIX system.  Who is responsible
for the software &
      database?

6.  Are you changing supervisors?  Do you "like" the new supervisor?  Sometimes
it is better
      not to make a move if you know that the new supervisor will be difficult
to work with.

7.  How old are you and how long have you been in your present position?  Some
younger
     people have a hard time working in an autonomous environment.

8.  The training that they want you to take is great.  This is an excellent
opportunity to develop
      new, and very marketable skills.  But, you need to consider that you will
have to travel quite
      a bit to take the necessary classes.  Can you do that?

9.  I'd ask to sit with the decision makers and look over all the paperwork
related to the purchase/
      lease agreement.  Find out where this system fits in to the total IS
scheme and how dedicated
      they are to keeping up with the technology.

If all of this seems to point in a positive direction, then I would say that
this is a good move for you.
Welcome to the world of AIX/UNIX Administration.

Cheers,

Bob Harlan
Senior Technical Support Analyst
Goodyear Tire and Rubber

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