Linux programmers dont live on this planet!

Linux programmers dont live on this planet!

Post by DES » Thu, 24 Aug 2000 12:41:39



I am an average guy who also got fed up with MS and decided to give Linux a
try. Being an average guy I guessed I would need help so paid Red Hat for
their 6.2 Delux version which came with telephone help for 30 days. Yes I
did RTFM and you know what I found!!!  A whole new *y language!!! For
those of you new to Linux; "Image" now means "copy", "Server" now means
"driver" etc. At least Mrs Gates little boy tried to make things easy for
us!
Give me a break, keep yor eye on your objective instead of trying to spite
MS. Make it easy for Joe Public.
Dave
PS I hope someone from XFree86 Org reads this, their installation
instructions are no help to me. What ever happened to step#1, step#2,.......
 
 
 

Linux programmers dont live on this planet!

Post by 2:1 » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00




Quote:> I am an average guy who also got fed up with MS and decided to give
Linux a
> try. Being an average guy I guessed I would need help so paid Red Hat
for
> their 6.2 Delux version which came with telephone help for 30 days.
Yes I
> did RTFM and you know what I found!!!  A whole new *y language!!!
For
> those of you new to Linux; "Image" now means "copy", "Server" now
means
> "driver" etc. At least Mrs Gates little boy tried to make things easy
for
> us!

No, you didn't find a new language, you found a different language. This
 hes its roots very clearly in UNIX, making it an older languae than the
one spoken by Microsoft. So, why exactly should Bill G sticking to his
own language be in any way different to the linux world stickling to
_its_ own language?

How does image mean copy---in what circumstances (disk image? that's a
copy of sorts, but a specific type and deserved a more descriptive name)
And where does 'server' mean 'driver'. I have never encountered this
one.

Quote:> Give me a break, keep yor eye on your objective instead of trying to
spite
> MS. Make it easy for Joe Public.

You're the one with his eye way off the objective. If we wanted to spite
MS then we would make it as easy for Joe Public as possible to try to
steal as many users. Most of us don't want that, what we want is a
stable, powerful OS that lets us do what we want[1]. Since the OS is
made by us, we get what we want.

How long have been using Windows for? My guess is several years. Now you
are expecting to have the same proficiency with linux after 30 days as
you do with windows after years. I think that you are expectiong too
much.

[1] Having a erally powerful OS and having one that is accessible to Joe
Public has so far prooven impossible. Sure I would like it if it were
possible, but I'd rather have an OS that lets me get the most out of nmy
ageing hardware than one that is easy for someone with no experience to
use.

-Ed

**************DISCLAIMER*******************
These are _OPINIONS_. If you don't agree, remember that they are
_OPINIONS_.

--
BBC Computer 32K
Acorn DFS
Basic

Sent via Deja.com http://www.veryComputer.com/
Before you buy.

 
 
 

Linux programmers dont live on this planet!

Post by mlw » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00



> I am an average guy who also got fed up with MS and decided to give Linux a
> try. Being an average guy I guessed I would need help so paid Red Hat for
> their 6.2 Delux version which came with telephone help for 30 days. Yes I
> did RTFM and you know what I found!!!  A whole new *y language!!! For
> those of you new to Linux; "Image" now means "copy", "Server" now means
> "driver" etc. At least Mrs Gates little boy tried to make things easy for
> us!
> Give me a break, keep yor eye on your objective instead of trying to spite
> MS. Make it easy for Joe Public.
> Dave
> PS I hope someone from XFree86 Org reads this, their installation
> instructions are no help to me. What ever happened to step#1, step#2,.......

I assume you are being reasonable, so lets go with that.

The vocabulary which of which you are speaking is arbitrary
technobable.  As for "Image" meaning "copy," is that the verb "copy" or
the noun "copy?" If it is the noun "copy" image is a more correct term.
And "server" meaning "driver." in what context?

Installation guide and step #1, #2, etc? Not everyone does things the
same way, as long as the language used is correct, and the information
presented is accurate, all you are complaining about is the method with
which a technical write decided to present the information. This is a
common problem in all technology, not everyone learns the same way or
processes information similarly. Many people complain about "step by
step" documents in that they don't help you understand what you are
doing.

If you want to rant, rant away. If you want to learn, get over it.

P.S. Remember, it is "8 items or fewer" not "8 items or less."

--
http://www.veryComputer.com/

 
 
 

Linux programmers dont live on this planet!

Post by MCS » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00


By "server" == "driver", he was probably talking about his X server.




> > I am an average guy who also got fed up with MS and decided to give
> Linux a
> > try. Being an average guy I guessed I would need help so paid Red Hat
> for
> > their 6.2 Delux version which came with telephone help for 30 days.
> Yes I
> > did RTFM and you know what I found!!!  A whole new *y language!!!
> For
> > those of you new to Linux; "Image" now means "copy", "Server" now
> means
> > "driver" etc. At least Mrs Gates little boy tried to make things easy
> for
> > us!

> No, you didn't find a new language, you found a different language. This
>  hes its roots very clearly in UNIX, making it an older languae than the
> one spoken by Microsoft. So, why exactly should Bill G sticking to his
> own language be in any way different to the linux world stickling to
> _its_ own language?

> How does image mean copy---in what circumstances (disk image? that's a
> copy of sorts, but a specific type and deserved a more descriptive name)
> And where does 'server' mean 'driver'. I have never encountered this
> one.

> > Give me a break, keep yor eye on your objective instead of trying to
> spite
> > MS. Make it easy for Joe Public.

> You're the one with his eye way off the objective. If we wanted to spite
> MS then we would make it as easy for Joe Public as possible to try to
> steal as many users. Most of us don't want that, what we want is a
> stable, powerful OS that lets us do what we want[1]. Since the OS is
> made by us, we get what we want.

> How long have been using Windows for? My guess is several years. Now you
> are expecting to have the same proficiency with linux after 30 days as
> you do with windows after years. I think that you are expectiong too
> much.

> [1] Having a erally powerful OS and having one that is accessible to Joe
> Public has so far prooven impossible. Sure I would like it if it were
> possible, but I'd rather have an OS that lets me get the most out of nmy
> ageing hardware than one that is easy for someone with no experience to
> use.

> -Ed

> **************DISCLAIMER*******************
> These are _OPINIONS_. If you don't agree, remember that they are
> _OPINIONS_.

> --
> BBC Computer 32K
> Acorn DFS
> Basic

> Sent via Deja.com http://www.veryComputer.com/
> Before you buy.

--
Ryan D. Walberg, B.Sc., MCP, MCSD
Boom Software Inc.
(204) 944-8212 ext. 254
 
 
 

Linux programmers dont live on this planet!

Post by Brian Langenberge » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00



: By "server" == "driver", he was probably talking about his X server.

I'm glad somebody cleared that one up.  It's actually the proper
term, of course, since my X server uses video drivers to display
one or more X clients (local or otherwise) but I think some
"X11 for Beginners" is in order.

I'd like a few less creeping Mac-isms in the computing world, myself.
For instance, "directories" are now "folders", "programs" are now
"applications" and "files" are now "documents".  But I expect that
translating is something I'll just have to live with.

 
 
 

Linux programmers dont live on this planet!

Post by <m.. » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00




Quote:> By "server" == "driver", he was probably talking about his X server.

That is what I was assuming that he meant, but as we know that is not a
valid description.
 
 
 

Linux programmers dont live on this planet!

Post by Joseph T. Adam » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00


: I'm glad somebody cleared that one up.  It's actually the proper
: term, of course, since my X server uses video drivers to display
: one or more X clients (local or otherwise) but I think some
: "X11 for Beginners" is in order.

: I'd like a few less creeping Mac-isms in the computing world, myself.
: For instance, "directories" are now "folders", "programs" are now
: "applications" and "files" are now "documents".  But I expect that
: translating is something I'll just have to live with.

'Bloze and 'Bloze apps tend to use the same terminology.

Joe

 
 
 

Linux programmers dont live on this planet!

Post by mlw » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00





> > By "server" == "driver", he was probably talking about his X server.

> That is what I was assuming that he meant, but as we know that is not a
> valid description.

Actually it is a very valid description. Although it behaves like a
driver with regards to hardware and privileges, it is, none the less, a
TCP/IP server which provides a service via TCP/IP. Simply because
Windows does not have an adequate analogy, does not mean the words are
incorrect.

--
http://www.mohawksoft.com

 
 
 

Linux programmers dont live on this planet!

Post by <m.. » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00






> > > By "server" == "driver", he was probably talking about his X server.

> > That is what I was assuming that he meant, but as we know that is not a
> > valid description.

> Actually it is a very valid description. Although it behaves like a
> driver with regards to hardware and privileges, it is, none the less, a
> TCP/IP server which provides a service via TCP/IP. Simply because
> Windows does not have an adequate analogy, does not mean the words are
> incorrect.

Some X servers contains drivers but the servers are not drivers.  In general
X server use the system drivers.  But even for those that contian driver, it
provides much more than just a driver or drivers.  An X server coordinates
the various terminal input devices as well as well as many other non-driver
functions.  By the way an X server provides network access not only by
internet domain networking but also unix domain netowrking--possibly many
other networking domains.

There are X servers that run on Windows and and of course they are not
drivers, they use the various system drivers.  There are also X servers for
Dos and other OS's as well

 
 
 

Linux programmers dont live on this planet!

Post by Glitc » Fri, 25 Aug 2000 13:11:56


Is there an equivalent in the Windows world to an X server?  Just so
that users coming from a background of Windows (like myself) can grasp
the idea little better.

Thanks
Brandon







> > > > By "server" == "driver", he was probably talking about his X server.

> > > That is what I was assuming that he meant, but as we know that is not a
> > > valid description.

> > Actually it is a very valid description. Although it behaves like a
> > driver with regards to hardware and privileges, it is, none the less, a
> > TCP/IP server which provides a service via TCP/IP. Simply because
> > Windows does not have an adequate analogy, does not mean the words are
> > incorrect.

> Some X servers contains drivers but the servers are not drivers.  In general
> X server use the system drivers.  But even for those that contian driver, it
> provides much more than just a driver or drivers.  An X server coordinates
> the various terminal input devices as well as well as many other non-driver
> functions.  By the way an X server provides network access not only by
> internet domain networking but also unix domain netowrking--possibly many
> other networking domains.

> There are X servers that run on Windows and and of course they are not
> drivers, they use the various system drivers.  There are also X servers for
> Dos and other OS's as well

 
 
 

Linux programmers dont live on this planet!

Post by David M. Co » Fri, 25 Aug 2000 13:24:41



>did RTFM and you know what I found!!!  A whole new *y language!!! For
>those of you new to Linux; "Image" now means "copy",

I assume you're talking about a disk image.  A disk image is a copy of all
the bits on the disk;  it's not a copy of the disk.  To use "copy" in this
context would be wrong as well as potentially very confusing.

Quote:>"Server" now means "driver" etc.

But a server (you mean X server) is not a driver.  Quoting from

http://www.veryComputer.com/~erc/motif.htm

   A very strange part about this is the terminology. In X, the server owns
   the desktop. The server draws the dots on the screen, reads the mouse and
   handles keyboard input. A client is simply a graphical application. The
   client connects to the server to create windows and draw data to the
   screen.

The client program can also *connect over the network*.  The terminology is
a bit odd at first, but justified if you think about it.  However, calling
the X server a driver would simply be wrong.

Dave Cook

 
 
 

Linux programmers dont live on this planet!

Post by Tim Hanso » Fri, 25 Aug 2000 14:07:41



> Is there an equivalent in the Windows world to an X server?  Just so
> that users coming from a background of Windows (like myself) can grasp
> the idea little better.

Sure, but not directly.  X is the system which handles the most
primitive of graphic functions.  It is responsible for drawing and
updating the screen in graphical mode, placing the mouse, updating its
location and providing programs with mouse events (clicks of the
buttons, etc.).  It handles keyboard input while it operates.  There is
a rudimentary (text only) cut and paste buffer no one really uses.  It
is called by typing on the command line (or having your startup script
call for you) the script "startx."

This is more than you think.  Drivers which configure various mice as
well as various graphics card drivers interact with X to provide screen
resolution.  By itself it is useless; it needs a window manager running
on top to color the screen, allow wallpapers, interact, etc.

The Windows environment is roughly equivalent to a proprietary form of
X, plus the single proprietary window manager.  The advantage to having
them split *nix style is the diversity of multiple window managers, from
the simplest, which bring up a graphical version of a command line for
running programs, to the most complex, which these days is probably
KDE.  Another advantage is that different versions of X exist for all
Unices, allowing the same window manager to run on multiple OSs.  The
disadvantage is that it is a little slower than, say, the Mac
interface.  

The current version for Linux is XFree86, v.4.0.1.  You can check it out
at http://xfree86.org/.

Hope this helps!

--
The giraffe you thought you offended last week is willing to be nuzzled
today.

 
 
 

Linux programmers dont live on this planet!

Post by Courageou » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00


Quote:> "Server" now means "driver" ...

You are referring to the X-Server. What the manual may not
have explained to you is that yes, indeed, the X-Server is
actually a server. If you set up the right permissions, you
can display X programs, running on remote machines, back to
your desktop. This is achieved because the remote program
opens up a TCP/IP socket on a known port, connects back to
your machine, authenticates itself (yes, boys and girls, just
like any client talking to a server), and then gets permission
to begin drawing windows on your desktop.

It happens to be a solidly proven technology.

C//

 
 
 

Linux programmers dont live on this planet!

Post by Aaron R. Kulki » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00



> I am an average guy who also got fed up with MS and decided to give Linux a
> try. Being an average guy I guessed I would need help so paid Red Hat for
> their 6.2 Delux version which came with telephone help for 30 days. Yes I
> did RTFM and you know what I found!!!  A whole new *y language!!! For
> those of you new to Linux; "Image" now means "copy", "Server" now means
> "driver" etc. At least Mrs Gates little boy tried to make things easy for
> us!

Actually, the Linux terminology is correct within the field of Computer
Science.

Quote:> Give me a break, keep yor eye on your objective instead of trying to spite
> MS. Make it easy for Joe Public.

There is no substitute for education....unless you want to remain a
slave to people like Gates, who only blow sunshine up your ass...

Quote:> Dave
> PS I hope someone from XFree86 Org reads this, their installation
> instructions are no help to me. What ever happened to step#1, step#2,.......

--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642

I: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
    premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
    you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
    you are lazy, stupid people"

J: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
   challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
   between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
   Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole

A:  The wise man is mocked by fools.

B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.

C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
   sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
   that she doesn't like.

D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.

E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
   ...despite (D) above.

F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
   response until their behavior improves.

G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
   *ery while concurrently committing *ery with Tammy Hahn.

H:  Knackos...you're a retard.

 
 
 

Linux programmers dont live on this planet!

Post by Aaron R. Kulki » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00



> Is there an equivalent in the Windows world to an X server?  Just so

Hummingbird X server.

> that users coming from a background of Windows (like myself) can grasp
> the idea little better.

> Thanks
> Brandon







> > > > > By "server" == "driver", he was probably talking about his X server.

> > > > That is what I was assuming that he meant, but as we know that is not a
> > > > valid description.

> > > Actually it is a very valid description. Although it behaves like a
> > > driver with regards to hardware and privileges, it is, none the less, a
> > > TCP/IP server which provides a service via TCP/IP. Simply because
> > > Windows does not have an adequate analogy, does not mean the words are
> > > incorrect.

> > Some X servers contains drivers but the servers are not drivers.  In general
> > X server use the system drivers.  But even for those that contian driver, it
> > provides much more than just a driver or drivers.  An X server coordinates
> > the various terminal input devices as well as well as many other non-driver
> > functions.  By the way an X server provides network access not only by
> > internet domain networking but also unix domain netowrking--possibly many
> > other networking domains.

> > There are X servers that run on Windows and and of course they are not
> > drivers, they use the various system drivers.  There are also X servers for
> > Dos and other OS's as well

--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642

I: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
    premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
    you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
    you are lazy, stupid people"

J: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
   challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
   between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
   Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole

A:  The wise man is mocked by fools.

B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.

C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
   sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
   that she doesn't like.

D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.

E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
   ...despite (D) above.

F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
   response until their behavior improves.

G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
   *ery while concurrently committing *ery with Tammy Hahn.

H:  Knackos...you're a retard.

 
 
 

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