Why I'm deserting XP & switching to Mandrake...

Why I'm deserting XP & switching to Mandrake...

Post by lord » Wed, 02 Oct 2002 01:52:50



[Xposted to advocacy NGs just for fun ...]

Why am I switching to Mandrake for the Desktop?

Note - this is not a rant (well not much) or a troll. It is just my take
on where things are heading. Could be way off base. Anything that isnt
directly related to my experience is just conjecture on my part based on
my casual reading of things in the IT news space over the last few years.

<background>
Started on VMS with VT100s (the pretty amber 320s :) about 15 years ago
I've used Windows on the Desktop from 3.1 onwards. Even used GEM briefly
Server development on DEC Alphas,SGI,Solaris,HP & IRIX Resisted having a
home PC for many years!!! </background>

Lordy

<opinion>

I like XP. or rather *liked* XP. (Except for WPA but I digress) However I
dont think we can afford to let Microsoft have a complete monopoly of the
**desktop**.

(we means Windows users & Linux users)

The roadmap (if MS and a lot of big players get thier way) is for compters
to become closed devices. This is what I understand of the trustworthy
computing initiative.

The authorities ultimately want more control over the internet and to stop
P2P applications etc.

I think this will be done by steath and a stepwise "refinement" over a
number of ?years. WPA and some new features of XP SP1 is the beginning.

I like XP, but MS going too far. We really cant afford help them
completely monopolise the desktop.

Look at how they recently screwed UK businesses with changes in licensing.
Big business woke up and said "oh shit". We are dependant on a *near*
Monopoly. We can either
1. Stay dependant (as many have done) 2. Invest in moving Linux on as a
desktop OS (as few have but its increasing)

Look at how it is illeagal for Linux to play DVDs. (not Microsofts fault
per say) but it shows how "Big Business" want control of what you do on
your PC. Ironically  it was because of some Linux hackers simply wanting
to play DVDs that I can now rip DVDs on XP.

So, with Mandrake 9.0 I took a second plunge. I did have 8.2 installed but
had difficulty getting my Alcatel Modem working straight away. This is
because, hardware manufacturers must produce drivers to work on Windows as
a top priority.
Many haven't even considered producing Linux drivers for many different
reasons. (Ignorance, demonstrating ROI, scared of hackers etc).

[As an aside as anyone/company demonstrated positive ROI by producing
Linux drivers - eg Epson etc]

I had decided about a year ago to buy well supported devices in
anticipation of having Linux on the desktop. Ironically I did have to get
rid of a scanner that wouldn't work under XP. This was not a fault of XP.
Just that the XP drivers weren't ready. Remember when XP came out there
was a lot of stuff that didn't work properly. However, manufacturer's had
to invest & prioritise getting drivers ready for the soon to be *
desktop otherwise thier products wouldn't shift. When people * about
thier devices not working with Linux it is not usually Linux's fault. Its
the manufacturer's fault.

I preferentially support peripherals that either have Linux drivers on
thier web ?site or that work under Linux.

So anyway, Windows users will be glad to read, my mandrake 9.0 install did
trash
my XP install.?Linux users I suspect may smile :):) (and vice versa when
re-installing XP it trashed Mandrake). This is not at all common, but yes,
it happened to me.
The bonus was that
?I could go back to W2K now :). After a bit of jiggery-pokery with
Partition Magic & HardDrake both systems installed happily.

Mandrake automatically picked up the following devices: ? DVD + SCSI Plex
CD & CDRW
? Canon S600 printer
? Epson 1650 USB Scanner
? Pinnacle PCTV Rave
? Creative Live! Soundcard

KDE 3.0 looks very nice. Maybe even better than Windows to me. At least
it's a change!
The one bug bear is the lots of different widget sets/interface styles
used by different applications. But this is slowly homogeonizing thanks to
KDE/Gnome and probably a lot more to Windows as programmers borrow
Human-Computer-Interaction (HCI) concepts from their experience with
Windows.

I'll miss Xnews & Feurio. <sniff>. IMO Pan pales in comparison (but I've
only used it a couple of days), and I haven't tried the ?CDR stuff on
Linux yet.

I also hate having to run around finding & compiling dependancy packages.
If Mandrake put GTK,glib,flex & bison in the distribution it would save a
lot of grief. "nul points"... At this rate Linux will NOT hit the desktop
on the same level of windows as *average* users cant install packages like
this.

But ironically this could work in favour of the corporate desktop which
would be similar to a Net-PC. Very limited functions available to Joe
Bloggs and an administrator who knows users would find it fairly difficult
to trash the system...

[ As I speak the UK Inland Revenue is considering replacing MS Windows
with a Sun supported restricted version of Linux. This will provide basic
utilities only (browser, Open Office) ]

Even if you like XP (as I did) I think the future bodes i'll if Microsoft
have complete monopoly of the desktop
and as computers become more restrictive on what you can do with them
without paying for all kinds of licenses.

If you're moderately computer savvy & toyed with Linux a year or two ago
and thought - bleahhh! - give it another whirl. Grab some Mandrake 9.0x
ISOs and have another go...

Oh yeah - back up your Windows partition first :)

Another downside is the you have to mess about to get DVD's playing. As I
mentioned before, this is not Linux's fault. But a sign of the times.
Corporations want to precisely control what you can do on your PC.
Microsoft is completely in on this with Trustworthy Computing. If you're a
PC Hobbyist & hack around on your PC (or even ?write shareware etc) then
I think
time is running out if you continue to play into MS hand. Between the
RIAA, Hollywood & Microsoft your general purpose PC will soon become a
thing of the past ...

If you just use your PC to do "ordinary" stuff - then you will soon be
renting MS Word on a per use basis as they will probably push ASP as it
provides a constant revenue Stream.

And thats without even delving into Linux as a server, and all of the
quality Open Source projects you can run on your little PC compared to
ones people pay through the nose for. mySQL/Apache/JBoss/Enhydra. How much
would the MS equivalent cost on Windows...

<mildrant>
Bear in mind

how MS happily charged people wads for NT Server (which was little
different from Workstation)... [That whole story sums up MS in my book -
this is their modus operandi]

Or how they continually enbrace & extend almost any standard , open
protocol and then endeavour to break/own it. Shame Apache stood the test
of time...

Or looking at the many ways they deliberately tried to subvert the uptake
of Java to the point of no longer shipping the JVM for IE
(platform-independance is not a good thing.)

Or how MS have until recently had little regard for security over
functionality - creating features that crackers can drive a truck through
& endeavouring to cover up serious security flaws in thier products when
they appear.

[Yes Linux has had its security problems too - but the philosophy with the
Linux community is "lets fix that because we will have a better quailty
product" wherase with MS it seems to be "lets fix that because someone
noticed and they are making noises and that may cost us"]

</mildrant>

I *like* MS products but I dont like MS corporate philosophy or having one
of my hobbies subject to it. Yes They are a business and want to maintain
revenue. Fair enough. But they have repeatedly demonstrated an increasing
willingness to "charge what the market will bear" and then some...

In the UK MS were pushing the prices up and business realise they dont
want to be dependant on a monopoly.... (Hopefully) MS may have pushed too
far...

I dont want to be dependant on a company like that. Similary I DONT buy
Sony (in the UK) because they artificially inflate thier prices to give
the appearance of added quality. Sony stuff *IS* good, but so is Technics
etc. But vendors are rarely allowed to discount Sony products on the UK.

In both cases I vote with my feet & my wallet... (OK My old TV was Sony
but the next one wont be :)

Yes these Mandrake fonts aren't as nice as Windows ... Off to do some
Googling...

</opinion>

Lordy

 
 
 

Why I'm deserting XP & switching to Mandrake...

Post by Dave Leig » Wed, 02 Oct 2002 03:39:52



> [Xposted to advocacy NGs just for fun ...]

> Why am I switching to Mandrake for the Desktop?

<snip>

VERY nice post.
That goes in my save file.

--
Dave Leigh, Consulting Systems Analyst
Cratchit.org

 
 
 

Why I'm deserting XP & switching to Mandrake...

Post by Voldemor » Wed, 02 Oct 2002 04:03:10


Legend has it that a message from "lordy" <spam...@gmx.co.uk> drifted
across alt.os.linux.mandrake and it went something like this:

> [Xposted to advocacy NGs just for fun ...]

> Why am I switching to Mandrake for the Desktop?

> Note - this is not a rant (well not much) or a troll. It is just my
> take on where things are heading. Could be way off base. Anything that
> isnt directly related to my experience is just conjecture on my part
> based on my casual reading of things in the IT news space over the
> last few years.

><background>
> Started on VMS with VT100s (the pretty amber 320s :) about 15 years
> ago I've used Windows on the Desktop from 3.1 onwards. Even used GEM
> briefly Server development on DEC Alphas,SGI,Solaris,HP & IRIX
> Resisted having a home PC for many years!!! </background>

> Lordy

><opinion>

> I like XP. or rather *liked* XP. (Except for WPA but I digress)
> However I dont think we can afford to let Microsoft have a complete
> monopoly of the **desktop**.

> (we means Windows users & Linux users)

> The roadmap (if MS and a lot of big players get thier way) is for
> compters to become closed devices. This is what I understand of the
> trustworthy computing initiative.

> The authorities ultimately want more control over the internet and to
> stop P2P applications etc.

> I think this will be done by steath and a stepwise "refinement" over a
> number of ?years. WPA and some new features of XP SP1 is the
> beginning.

> I like XP, but MS going too far. We really cant afford help them
> completely monopolise the desktop.

> Look at how they recently screwed UK businesses with changes in
> licensing. Big business woke up and said "oh shit". We are dependant
> on a *near* Monopoly. We can either
> 1. Stay dependant (as many have done) 2. Invest in moving Linux on as
> a desktop OS (as few have but its increasing)

> Look at how it is illeagal for Linux to play DVDs. (not Microsofts
> fault per say) but it shows how "Big Business" want control of what
> you do on your PC. Ironically  it was because of some Linux hackers
> simply wanting to play DVDs that I can now rip DVDs on XP.

> So, with Mandrake 9.0 I took a second plunge. I did have 8.2 installed
> but had difficulty getting my Alcatel Modem working straight away.
> This is because, hardware manufacturers must produce drivers to work
> on Windows as a top priority.
> Many haven't even considered producing Linux drivers for many
> different reasons. (Ignorance, demonstrating ROI, scared of hackers
> etc).

> [As an aside as anyone/company demonstrated positive ROI by producing
> Linux drivers - eg Epson etc]

> I had decided about a year ago to buy well supported devices in
> anticipation of having Linux on the desktop. Ironically I did have to
> get rid of a scanner that wouldn't work under XP. This was not a fault
> of XP. Just that the XP drivers weren't ready. Remember when XP came
> out there was a lot of stuff that didn't work properly. However,
> manufacturer's had to invest & prioritise getting drivers ready for
> the soon to be dominant desktop otherwise thier products wouldn't
> shift. When people bitch about thier devices not working with Linux it
> is not usually Linux's fault. Its the manufacturer's fault.

> I preferentially support peripherals that either have Linux drivers on
> thier web ?site or that work under Linux.

> So anyway, Windows users will be glad to read, my mandrake 9.0 install
> did trash
> my XP install.?Linux users I suspect may smile :):) (and vice versa
> when re-installing XP it trashed Mandrake). This is not at all common,
> but yes, it happened to me.
> The bonus was that
> ?I could go back to W2K now :). After a bit of jiggery-pokery with
> Partition Magic & HardDrake both systems installed happily.

> Mandrake automatically picked up the following devices: ? DVD + SCSI
> Plex CD & CDRW
> ? Canon S600 printer
> ? Epson 1650 USB Scanner
> ? Pinnacle PCTV Rave
> ? Creative Live! Soundcard

> KDE 3.0 looks very nice. Maybe even better than Windows to me. At
> least it's a change!
> The one bug bear is the lots of different widget sets/interface styles
> used by different applications. But this is slowly homogeonizing
> thanks to KDE/Gnome and probably a lot more to Windows as programmers
> borrow Human-Computer-Interaction (HCI) concepts from their experience
> with Windows.

> I'll miss Xnews & Feurio. <sniff>. IMO Pan pales in comparison (but
> I've only used it a couple of days), and I haven't tried the ?CDR
> stuff on Linux yet.

> I also hate having to run around finding & compiling dependancy
> packages. If Mandrake put GTK,glib,flex & bison in the distribution it
> would save a lot of grief. "nul points"... At this rate Linux will NOT
> hit the desktop on the same level of windows as *average* users cant
> install packages like this.

> But ironically this could work in favour of the corporate desktop
> which would be similar to a Net-PC. Very limited functions available
> to Joe Bloggs and an administrator who knows users would find it
> fairly difficult to trash the system...

> [ As I speak the UK Inland Revenue is considering replacing MS Windows
> with a Sun supported restricted version of Linux. This will provide
> basic utilities only (browser, Open Office) ]

> Even if you like XP (as I did) I think the future bodes i'll if
> Microsoft have complete monopoly of the desktop
> and as computers become more restrictive on what you can do with them
> without paying for all kinds of licenses.

> If you're moderately computer savvy & toyed with Linux a year or two
> ago and thought - bleahhh! - give it another whirl. Grab some Mandrake
> 9.0x ISOs and have another go...

> Oh yeah - back up your Windows partition first :)

> Another downside is the you have to mess about to get DVD's playing.
> As I mentioned before, this is not Linux's fault. But a sign of the
> times. Corporations want to precisely control what you can do on your
> PC. Microsoft is completely in on this with Trustworthy Computing. If
> you're a PC Hobbyist & hack around on your PC (or even ?write
> shareware etc) then I think
> time is running out if you continue to play into MS hand. Between the
> RIAA, Hollywood & Microsoft your general purpose PC will soon become a
> thing of the past ...

> If you just use your PC to do "ordinary" stuff - then you will soon be
> renting MS Word on a per use basis as they will probably push ASP as
> it provides a constant revenue Stream.

> And thats without even delving into Linux as a server, and all of the
> quality Open Source projects you can run on your little PC compared to
> ones people pay through the nose for. mySQL/Apache/JBoss/Enhydra. How
> much would the MS equivalent cost on Windows...

><mildrant>
> Bear in mind

> how MS happily charged people wads for NT Server (which was little
> different from Workstation)... [That whole story sums up MS in my book
> - this is their modus operandi]

> Or how they continually enbrace & extend almost any standard , open
> protocol and then endeavour to break/own it. Shame Apache stood the
> test of time...

> Or looking at the many ways they deliberately tried to subvert the
> uptake of Java to the point of no longer shipping the JVM for IE
> (platform-independance is not a good thing.)

> Or how MS have until recently had little regard for security over
> functionality - creating features that crackers can drive a truck
> through & endeavouring to cover up serious security flaws in thier
> products when they appear.

> [Yes Linux has had its security problems too - but the philosophy with
> the Linux community is "lets fix that because we will have a better
> quailty product" wherase with MS it seems to be "lets fix that because
> someone noticed and they are making noises and that may cost us"]

></mildrant>

> I *like* MS products but I dont like MS corporate philosophy or having
> one of my hobbies subject to it. Yes They are a business and want to
> maintain revenue. Fair enough. But they have repeatedly demonstrated
> an increasing willingness to "charge what the market will bear" and
> then some...

> In the UK MS were pushing the prices up and business realise they dont
> want to be dependant on a monopoly.... (Hopefully) MS may have pushed
> too far...

> I dont want to be dependant on a company like that. Similary I DONT
> buy Sony (in the UK) because they artificially inflate thier prices to
> give the appearance of added quality. Sony stuff *IS* good, but so is
> Technics etc. But vendors are rarely allowed to discount Sony products
> on the UK.

> In both cases I vote with my feet & my wallet... (OK My old TV was
> Sony but the next one wont be :)

> Yes these Mandrake fonts aren't as nice as Windows ... Off to do some
> Googling...

></opinion>

> Lordy

I totally agree with what you have said though I will stick with dualboot
for the time being.  I wouldnt touch Windows as a server though even with
all my Samba troubles on Linux (no doubt because M$ keep tweaking Windows
to break when used with Linux).

Alex.

--
This newsgroup post is by Alex Atkin and does not reflect the opinion
of nor is endorsed by Crazy Software Developments in any way.

Check out our websites at http://www.csdprojects.co.uk/
and our new clubs service http://clubs.csdprojects.co.uk/

 
 
 

Why I'm deserting XP & switching to Mandrake...

Post by lord » Wed, 02 Oct 2002 04:22:09



> I totally agree with what you have said though I will stick with dualboot
> for the time being.  I wouldnt touch Windows as a server though even with
> all my Samba troubles on Linux (no doubt because M$ keep tweaking Windows
> to break when used with Linux).

> Alex.

> --
> This newsgroup post is by Alex Atkin and does not reflect the opinion
> of nor is endorsed by Crazy Software Developments in any way.

Hi Alex, Yup! I'm dual booting at the moment too. I need to find
my Linux equivalent of Xnews & Feurio.

I did *START* trying to compile Syphleed, which needs GTK ,
which needs pgk-something & glib which needs lots of picture loaders,
blah blah blah. Total time spent installing ONE newsreader (over 30
minutes and I gave up for the time being) Sheesh....

Lordy

 
 
 

Why I'm deserting XP & switching to Mandrake...

Post by William Barwe » Wed, 02 Oct 2002 05:00:04




>[Xposted to advocacy NGs just for fun ...]

*********************** DELETED *********************

Quote:

>I'll miss Xnews & Feurio. <sniff>. IMO Pan pales in comparison (but I've
>only used it a couple of days), and I haven't tried the ?CDR stuff on
>Linux yet.

Well, there's always hope with WINE and if not that, Win4lin
or other programs that will allow Linux to host Windows
programs.

Quote:

>Oh yeah - back up your Windows partition first :)

I keep my OSs on seperate HDs and unplug 'em when screwing around
with setting up a new one I have no real experience with.
Especially a new Windows upgrade.

Quote:>If you just use your PC to do "ordinary" stuff - then you will soon be
>renting MS Word on a per use basis as they will probably push ASP as it
>provides a constant revenue Stream.
>I *like* MS products but I dont like MS corporate philosophy or having one
>of my hobbies subject to it. Yes They are a business and want to maintain
>revenue. Fair enough. But they have repeatedly demonstrated an increasing
>willingness to "charge what the market will bear" and then some...

They want me to pay $199 for a copy of XP on each computer
I own, all four of 'em?   Not a chance.  $796 would buy me
a lot of neat hardware and a boxed set of the latest Mandrake distro.
This, long term is going to be a bust for them.

I will soon be buying a new motherboard and a CPU for Computer
#3, which will evolve to a media machine, sound, stereo system,
PVR, ect.  $199 for XP would just about pay for a good
video/capture board.

It's going to be hard for MS to rent that sort of SW also.
Apparently, their next upgrade to XP will incorporate
all of this in one system.

It would be neat to see a similar distro of Linux
put together that would be easily loaded by a non-Linux
user and configured.

Cheerful Charlie

 
 
 

Why I'm deserting XP & switching to Mandrake...

Post by Windows_SUX » Wed, 02 Oct 2002 05:05:58


I play DVD movies on my Linux box.  I RIP DVD movies on my Linux box.
I use DeCSS and some other tools to do what ever I want to do with the DVD's
that I bought and OWN.  Those parasite scumbags can KISS MY DeCSS using
ass.
If they think they are bad enough to mess with me they will find out that
they will be met with a few blasts of 12g. 3"magnum 0000 buckshot in the
face while my German Shepherd rips thier nuts off.

My computer is MY computer.  I run Linux now because I will not be a slave
to the New World Order as defined by Bill Gate$ and Tom R*dge.
Windows can go to hell, RIAA can go to hell, MPAA can go to hell, M$ and
Intel can go to hell.  *I* will maintain control over my own computers.  I
will NOT be told what I can and can not do with my computers.  I will not
live in the shadow of Big Brother on my knees.
DEATH to Windows!!

lordy wrote:
> [Xposted to advocacy NGs just for fun ...]

> Why am I switching to Mandrake for the Desktop?

> Note - this is not a rant (well not much) or a troll. It is just my take
> on where things are heading. Could be way off base. Anything that isnt
> directly related to my experience is just conjecture on my part based on
> my casual reading of things in the IT news space over the last few years.

> <background>
> Started on VMS with VT100s (the pretty amber 320s :) about 15 years ago
> I've used Windows on the Desktop from 3.1 onwards. Even used GEM briefly
> Server development on DEC Alphas,SGI,Solaris,HP & IRIX Resisted having a
> home PC for many years!!! </background>

> Lordy

> <opinion>

> I like XP. or rather *liked* XP. (Except for WPA but I digress) However I
> dont think we can afford to let Microsoft have a complete monopoly of the
> **desktop**.

> (we means Windows users & Linux users)

> The roadmap (if MS and a lot of big players get thier way) is for compters
> to become closed devices. This is what I understand of the trustworthy
> computing initiative.

> The authorities ultimately want more control over the internet and to stop
> P2P applications etc.

> I think this will be done by steath and a stepwise "refinement" over a
> number of  years. WPA and some new features of XP SP1 is the beginning.

> I like XP, but MS going too far. We really cant afford help them
> completely monopolise the desktop.

> Look at how they recently screwed UK businesses with changes in licensing.
> Big business woke up and said "oh shit". We are dependant on a *near*
> Monopoly. We can either
> 1. Stay dependant (as many have done) 2. Invest in moving Linux on as a
> desktop OS (as few have but its increasing)

> Look at how it is illeagal for Linux to play DVDs. (not Microsofts fault
> per say) but it shows how "Big Business" want control of what you do on
> your PC. Ironically  it was because of some Linux hackers simply wanting
> to play DVDs that I can now rip DVDs on XP.

> So, with Mandrake 9.0 I took a second plunge. I did have 8.2 installed but
> had difficulty getting my Alcatel Modem working straight away. This is
> because, hardware manufacturers must produce drivers to work on Windows as
> a top priority.
> Many haven't even considered producing Linux drivers for many different
> reasons. (Ignorance, demonstrating ROI, scared of hackers etc).

> [As an aside as anyone/company demonstrated positive ROI by producing
> Linux drivers - eg Epson etc]

> I had decided about a year ago to buy well supported devices in
> anticipation of having Linux on the desktop. Ironically I did have to get
> rid of a scanner that wouldn't work under XP. This was not a fault of XP.
> Just that the XP drivers weren't ready. Remember when XP came out there
> was a lot of stuff that didn't work properly. However, manufacturer's had
> to invest & prioritise getting drivers ready for the soon to be dominant
> desktop otherwise thier products wouldn't shift. When people bitch about
> thier devices not working with Linux it is not usually Linux's fault. Its
> the manufacturer's fault.

> I preferentially support peripherals that either have Linux drivers on
> thier web  site or that work under Linux.

> So anyway, Windows users will be glad to read, my mandrake 9.0 install did
> trash
> my XP install. Linux users I suspect may smile :):) (and vice versa when
> re-installing XP it trashed Mandrake). This is not at all common, but yes,
> it happened to me.
> The bonus was that
> I could go back to W2K now :). After a bit of jiggery-pokery with
> Partition Magic & HardDrake both systems installed happily.

> Mandrake automatically picked up the following devices:   DVD + SCSI Plex
> CD & CDRW
> Canon S600 printer
> Epson 1650 USB Scanner
> Pinnacle PCTV Rave
> Creative Live! Soundcard

> KDE 3.0 looks very nice. Maybe even better than Windows to me. At least
> it's a change!
> The one bug bear is the lots of different widget sets/interface styles
> used by different applications. But this is slowly homogeonizing thanks to
> KDE/Gnome and probably a lot more to Windows as programmers borrow
> Human-Computer-Interaction (HCI) concepts from their experience with
> Windows.

> I'll miss Xnews & Feurio. <sniff>. IMO Pan pales in comparison (but I've
> only used it a couple of days), and I haven't tried the  CDR stuff on
> Linux yet.

> I also hate having to run around finding & compiling dependancy packages.
> If Mandrake put GTK,glib,flex & bison in the distribution it would save a
> lot of grief. "nul points"... At this rate Linux will NOT hit the desktop
> on the same level of windows as *average* users cant install packages like
> this.

> But ironically this could work in favour of the corporate desktop which
> would be similar to a Net-PC. Very limited functions available to Joe
> Bloggs and an administrator who knows users would find it fairly difficult
> to trash the system...

> [ As I speak the UK Inland Revenue is considering replacing MS Windows
> with a Sun supported restricted version of Linux. This will provide basic
> utilities only (browser, Open Office) ]

> Even if you like XP (as I did) I think the future bodes i'll if Microsoft
> have complete monopoly of the desktop
> and as computers become more restrictive on what you can do with them
> without paying for all kinds of licenses.

> If you're moderately computer savvy & toyed with Linux a year or two ago
> and thought - bleahhh! - give it another whirl. Grab some Mandrake 9.0x
> ISOs and have another go...

> Oh yeah - back up your Windows partition first :)

> Another downside is the you have to mess about to get DVD's playing. As I
> mentioned before, this is not Linux's fault. But a sign of the times.
> Corporations want to precisely control what you can do on your PC.
> Microsoft is completely in on this with Trustworthy Computing. If you're a
> PC Hobbyist & hack around on your PC (or even  write shareware etc) then
> I think
> time is running out if you continue to play into MS hand. Between the
> RIAA, Hollywood & Microsoft your general purpose PC will soon become a
> thing of the past ...

> If you just use your PC to do "ordinary" stuff - then you will soon be
> renting MS Word on a per use basis as they will probably push ASP as it
> provides a constant revenue Stream.

> And thats without even delving into Linux as a server, and all of the
> quality Open Source projects you can run on your little PC compared to
> ones people pay through the nose for. mySQL/Apache/JBoss/Enhydra. How much
> would the MS equivalent cost on Windows...

> <mildrant>
> Bear in mind

> how MS happily charged people wads for NT Server (which was little
> different from Workstation)... [That whole story sums up MS in my book -
> this is their modus operandi]

> Or how they continually enbrace & extend almost any standard , open
> protocol and then endeavour to break/own it. Shame Apache stood the test
> of time...

> Or looking at the many ways they deliberately tried to subvert the uptake
> of Java to the point of no longer shipping the JVM for IE
> (platform-independance is not a good thing.)

> Or how MS have until recently had little regard for security over
> functionality - creating features that crackers can drive a truck through
> & endeavouring to cover up serious security flaws in thier products when
> they appear.

> [Yes Linux has had its security problems too - but the philosophy with the
> Linux community is "lets fix that because we will have a better quailty
> product" wherase with MS it seems to be "lets fix that because someone
> noticed and they are making noises and that may cost us"]

> </mildrant>

> I *like* MS products but I dont like MS corporate philosophy or having one
> of my hobbies subject to it. Yes They are a business and want to maintain
> revenue. Fair enough. But they have repeatedly demonstrated an increasing
> willingness to "charge what the market will bear" and then some...

> In the UK MS were pushing the prices up and business realise they dont
> want to be dependant on a monopoly.... (Hopefully) MS may have pushed too
> far...

> I dont want to be dependant on a company like that. Similary I DONT buy
> Sony (in the UK) because they artificially inflate thier prices to give
> the appearance of added quality. Sony stuff *IS* good, but so is Technics
> etc. But vendors are rarely allowed to discount Sony products on the UK.

> In both cases I vote with my feet & my wallet... (OK My old TV was Sony
> but the next one wont be :)

> Yes these Mandrake fonts aren't as nice as Windows ... Off to do some
> Googling...

> </opinion>

> Lordy

 
 
 

Why I'm deserting XP & switching to Mandrake...

Post by rapska » Wed, 02 Oct 2002 05:39:58


Error log for Tue, 01 Oct 2002 03:22:09 +0100, segfault in module "lordy":
dump details are as follows...

Quote:> Hi Alex, Yup! I'm dual booting at the moment too. I need to find my
> Linux equivalent of Xnews & Feurio.

If you are really stuck on XNews, it will run just fine in Wine.

Though I can't see how you could not like Pan or slrn...

;-)

--
rapskat -  11:38pm  up 3 days, 14 min,  3 users,  load average: 1.03, 0.46, 0.46
146 processes: 136 sleeping, 9 running, 1 zombie, 0 stopped
CPU states:  0.8% user,  0.5% system,  0.4% nice,  0.7% idle

When Alexander Graham Bell died in 1922, the telephone people interrupted
service for one minute in his honor.  They've been honoring him intermittently
ever since, I believe.
                -- The Grab Bag

 
 
 

Why I'm deserting XP & switching to Mandrake...

Post by D. C. Session » Wed, 02 Oct 2002 05:22:22



> I also hate having to run around finding & compiling dependancy packages.
> If Mandrake put GTK,glib,flex & bison in the distribution it would save a
> lot of grief. "nul points"... At this rate Linux will NOT hit the desktop
> on the same level of windows as *average* users cant install packages like
> this.

On Mandrake urpmi takes care of this automagically.

--
|      In the course of every project there comes a time        |
|         when the best de* is a can of gasoline.          |

 
 
 

Why I'm deserting XP & switching to Mandrake...

Post by Handover Phis » Wed, 02 Oct 2002 06:34:48


In order to obtain enlightenment,
Windows_SUX!'s koan is Re: Why I'm deserting XP & switching to Mandrake...

Quote:> I play DVD movies on my Linux box.  I RIP DVD movies on my Linux box.
> I use DeCSS and some other tools to do what ever I want to do with the DVD's
> that I bought and OWN.  Those parasite scumbags can KISS MY DeCSS using
> ass.
> If they think they are bad enough to mess with me they will find out that
> they will be met with a few blasts of 12g. 3"magnum 0000 buckshot in the
> face while my German Shepherd rips thier nuts off.

> My computer is MY computer.  I run Linux now because I will not be a slave
> to the New World Order as defined by Bill Gate$ and Tom R*dge.
> Windows can go to hell, RIAA can go to hell, MPAA can go to hell, M$ and
> Intel can go to hell.  *I* will maintain control over my own computers.  I
> will NOT be told what I can and can not do with my computers.  I will not
> live in the shadow of Big Brother on my knees.
> DEATH to Windows!!

[Posting only to COLA as I've completely HAD IT with trolling...]

While this is an extremist point of view that I never take while working
my day job, when I come home at night and sit down in front of my happy
happy linboxen (1 333 mandrake box, 1 486 Slack laptop, 1 1gig Undecided
;), I howl the same rant, but I'd be shootin a .45 at their shoulder.
You *want* them to feel the Shepherd takin their boys off!

--
Fri Sep  6 01:08:43 ~># fortune
The only really decent thing to do behind a person's back is pat it.

 
 
 

Why I'm deserting XP & switching to Mandrake...

Post by hollj » Wed, 02 Oct 2002 08:51:24


<SNIP>
Quote:> I did *START* trying to compile Syphleed, which needs GTK ,
> which needs pgk-something & glib which needs lots of picture loaders,
> blah blah blah. Total time spent installing ONE newsreader (over 30
> minutes and I gave up for the time being) Sheesh....

> Lordy

</SNIP>

Just curious why you don't try urpmi along with rpm packages. A couple
of clicks and you're done. A lot easier for the average beginner in
linux, unless of course you just want to compile your own.

Curt

 
 
 

Why I'm deserting XP & switching to Mandrake...

Post by Matt » Wed, 02 Oct 2002 09:09:59


On Mon, 30 Sep 2002 23:51:24 +0000, holljac said something a lot like:

Quote:> <SNIP>
>> I did *START* trying to compile Syphleed, which needs GTK , which
>> needs pgk-something & glib which needs lots of picture loaders, blah
>> blah blah. Total time spent installing ONE newsreader (over 30 minutes
>> and I gave up for the time being) Sheesh....

>> Lordy
> </SNIP>

> Just curious why you don't try urpmi along with rpm packages. A couple
> of clicks and you're done. A lot easier for the average beginner in
> linux, unless of course you just want to compile your own.

> Curt

Sylpheed comes on the MDK cd's.  Why compile, if you're having trouble
with it?  Install the rpm.
--
Matt
Remove "-nospam" to reply

The only happiness lies in reason; all the rest of the world is dismal.
The highest reason, however, I see in the work of the artist, and he may
experience it as such.  Happiness lies in the swiftness of feeling and
thinking: all the rest of the world is slow, gradual and stupid.  Whoever
could feel the course of a light ray would be very happy, for it is very
swift.  Thinking of oneself gives little happiness.  If, however, one feels
much happiness in this, it is because at bottom one is not thinking of
oneself but of one's ideal.  This is far, and only the swift shall reach
it and are delighted.
                -- Nietzsche

 
 
 

Why I'm deserting XP & switching to Mandrake...

Post by Bill Bake » Wed, 02 Oct 2002 13:46:18





> Hi Alex, Yup! I'm dual booting at the moment too. I need to find my
> Linux equivalent of Xnews & Feurio.

I'm an Xnews fan, too, and when I moved to Linux I used KNode at first,
then switched to Pan.  I was never able to get Xnews to work with WINE. As
far as CD burning software, XCDRoast performs all my CD burning needs just
fine.

Quote:> I did *START* trying to compile Syphleed, which needs GTK , which needs
> pgk-something & glib which needs lots of picture loaders, blah blah
> blah. Total time spent installing ONE newsreader (over 30 minutes and I
> gave up for the time being) Sheesh....

> Lordy

This is why you need to install BOTH Gnome and KDE, even if you only plan
on using one of them.

--Bill

 
 
 

Why I'm deserting XP & switching to Mandrake...

Post by walterby » Wed, 02 Oct 2002 15:25:38


If you want to use Linux because you hate MS, that's fine. But,
frankly, I didn't see much in the way of a purely business cost/return
analysis.

You clearly had to go way out of your way. A lot of extra expenses:
partition magic, etc. Lots of additional planning, lots of additional
time.

Most PCs come with the OS installed. This used to raise the cost of a
PC about $40. Now, I don't know, maybe $75? You spent that much on
partition magic. Now, put a value on your time. Seems to me there is
not much a business case here.

If you get great satisfaction out of fighting MS, that's fine. But, I
think you made a strong case for MS-Windows. About 99% of computer
users just want to buy the system and go. Few end users want to plan a
year in advance about what hardware to use, etc.

A reasonable post anyway.

 
 
 

Why I'm deserting XP & switching to Mandrake...

Post by Peter K?hlman » Wed, 02 Oct 2002 15:34:06



> If you want to use Linux because you hate MS, that's fine. But,
> frankly, I didn't see much in the way of a purely business cost/return
> analysis.

> You clearly had to go way out of your way. A lot of extra expenses:
> partition magic, etc. Lots of additional planning, lots of additional
> time.

> Most PCs come with the OS installed. This used to raise the cost of a
> PC about $40. Now, I don't know, maybe $75? You spent that much on
> partition magic. Now, put a value on your time. Seems to me there is
> not much a business case here.

> If you get great satisfaction out of fighting MS, that's fine. But, I
> think you made a strong case for MS-Windows. About 99% of computer
> users just want to buy the system and go. Few end users want to plan a
> year in advance about what hardware to use, etc.

> A reasonable post anyway.

For what partition magic? I don't have it, I don't need it.
On each computer is just *one* OS, be it windows, OS/2 or linux

Peter
--
"Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend: and inside a dog,
it's too dark to read."                -- Groucho Marx

 
 
 

Why I'm deserting XP & switching to Mandrake...

Post by Per Inge Oestmoe » Wed, 02 Oct 2002 17:20:08



> Corporations want to precisely control what you can do on your PC.
> Microsoft is completely in on this with Trustworthy Computing. If you're a
> PC Hobbyist & hack around on your PC (or even  write shareware etc) then
> I think time is running out if you continue to play into MS hand. Between the
> RIAA, Hollywood & Microsoft your general purpose PC will soon become a
> thing of the past ...
> If you just use your PC to do "ordinary" stuff - then you will soon be
> renting MS Word on a per use basis as they will probably push ASP as it
> provides a constant revenue Stream.

Dear lordy!

This is a brilliant post, congratulations.
All you said was directly to the point.

I can only encourage you all to read my own article,
which elaborates on the same themes:

http://www.efn.no/free-desktop.html

Per Inge Oestmoen, Norway
http://www.efn.no/