Very Computer

Welcome to comp.os.linux.advocacy, otherwise known as cola.  This
FAQ will try to address most of the issues regarding Linux and
this group.  Unlike the other FAQs, this one will try to be as
realistic as possible.  If you want the straight information from
real people, continue reading.  If you would like to be told what
you want to hear, or read a bunch of misinformation that you will
regret later as you find things don't work as they should, feel free
to read one of the other "FAQS" in here.

OK, on to the info!  ADDED NEW SECTION BELOW!

Here's a list of some frequently asked and answered question here
and elsewhere that you may find useful in your quest to try linux.
Read these carefully before you decide to invest time in Linux, you
may find that you have better things you can do instead.

SECTION ONE - INSTALLATION
--------------------------

1.1 Q: I heard linux was easy to install, is it?
    A: That depends on what distro you try.  Most of them will have
       trouble detecting all your hardware.  Most new hardware devices
       are not supported.  If your lucky you might be able to find
       something that someone threw together on the net.  But that's
       after spending a couple hours searching and probably won't take
       advantage of your hardware to it's fullest capability.

1.2 Q: Once I get it installed, then what?
    A: Then you get the joy of making sure everything is configured
       right.  Plan on a minimum of two hours per device to get it to
       work.  That's if the device is even supported.

1.3 Q: What happens if I'm in the middle of an install and the
       installation freezes or just stops?
    A: You get to reboot and start all over again. :)  This happens
       every so often with Linux.  It seems like it's buggy install
       routines or something.  Ain't Linux grand? :)

1.4 Q: What's the deal?!  I installed Linux and it took up almost 2GB
       hard drive space!
    A: The Linux distros usually install a LOT of never-used programs
       on the default install.  You can pick and choose what you want,
       but good luck figuring out what programs are needed and what is
       useless, obscure tools.  Linux usually installs stuff like 10
       different editors, 12 different mail clients, and so on.

    (more to come...)

SECTION TWO - CONFIGURATION
---------------------------

2.1 Q: What's with all these cryptic files?
    A: All of Linux is configured with cryptic text files.  Some of
       the more user-friendly distros have configuration utilities
       that claim to do it for you, but success with these works
       sometimes and other times don't, so sometimes you have to
       edit them by hand.  With Linux's spotty reliability in UI
       programming, you might as well get used to it.

2.2 Q: What is killall, HUP, ls, cat, rm, which, etc and why are
       these programs telling me to do them?  Arggg!!
    A: These are command line programs that do things within the
       system.  It's what makes Linux a powerful OS for those that
       are experienced with it.  But it's also what makes it a pain
       in the arse to use and inefficient as a desktop system.  Who
       wants to type all the time when they can just click?!

       (more to come...)

SECTION THREE - APPLICATIONS
----------------------------

3.1 Q: Where can I get some programs to run on linux?
    A: Good question.  Because Linux doesn't have a large user base
       on the desktop,(I think it's about 0.24%, less than 1%)
       companies that make software won't write their programs for
       Linux.  There's a lot of community created programs out there,
       and some are fairly good, but those are few and far between.
       Most of the Linux software that tries to mimic it's windows
       counterpart is substandard. It's usually slow and buggy and
       early in development.

3.2 Q: I tried to install an RPM but I got 'failed dependencies', what
       is that?
    A: That's Linux's version of DLL hell.  Different versions and
       distros use different libraries.  So unlike windows where
       programs will run on many different versions, Linux programs
       will fail if they're not made for your specific version.

3.3 Q: What is compiling and configure, make and make install? And
       what is a makefile?
    A: This is a way to build the programs from the source code
       under Linux.  When the question above fails, you can always
       build it yourself.  The advantage is that it works most of
       the time.  The disadvantage is that it takes forever to build
       large programs, you need to know some cryptic commands and
       you have to do all this on a command line.  Unlike Windows
       where you just double click and you are done.

3.4 Q: Can I go to my local store to buy any Linux applications?
    A: Not really.  You can buy Linux itself at various stores. But
       not too many commercial companies make applications for Linux,
       there's no profit in it with 0.24% of the desktop market.

       (more to come...)

SECTION FOUR - SPEED ISSUES
---------------------------

4.1 Q: Why is Linux so slow?
    A: Linux is built on the technology of the old UNIX OS's.  Even
       the graphical user interface of Linux is a separate program that
       is the same type they used back in the older UNIX days.  So
       working with old technology will give you the old technology
       responsiveness. Also, a lot of the GUI's, although nice to look
       at, are still not mature. Using them is slow and sluggish
       compared to, say, Windows.

       (more to come...)

SECTION FIVE - CONSISTENCY
--------------------------

5.1 Q: Why are the windows different looking?
    A: Since Linux isn't built by one company, group or have any
       governing body, programs and interfaces can vary dramatically.
       You can have everything from the nice look of KDE, to something
       as ugly as TK and everything in between. You'll usually see some
       varying UI stile in Linux.

5.2 Q: Should I buy Suse Linux?
    A: No.  They make it difficult to get it for free.  All the other
       distros provide free ISO's to download.  Suse is the only one
       that doesn't provide them but instead has a FTP install that's
       hard to get to work.  Why should they make it easy?  The more
       people that can't get the download to work have to spend $80
       or more for the boxed set.  And on top of all that although
       it might have a few more user friendly tools, it's still the
       same base Linux system that's in development and that all the
       other distros are using.  In other words, they're all on about
       the same level of struggling to catch up to Windows, so you're
       not going to find any earth-shattering features in one compared
       to another.

       (more to come...)

SECTION SIX - LINUX COMMUNITY
-----------------------------

6.1 Q: What is RTFM?!
    A: This is an acronym for Read The Fuc*ing Manual.  This is a common
       answer you'll get when asking for help in the Linux community.
       It's meant to make you feel inadequate while boating the Linux
       persons ego at the same time.  See, Linux enthusiasts consider
       themselves to be guru like and above helping out the simple
       newbie.  You have to earn your respect by spending countless
       hours becoming a kernel hacker before you're worthy of getting
       any help.

6.2 Q: Why does everyone think they are better than you when using Linux?
    A: Same as above.  When people use Linux they believe since it takes
       a little more knowledge to use Linux, they are technically superior,
       and see themselves as an elite group that doesn't have time for the
       pathetic little Windows people.

       (more to come...)

SECTION SEVEN - LINUX ADVOCACY, HELPING OR HURTING?
---------------------------------------------------

7.1 Q: Everyone in here says linux is perfect, why would they say that
       if it isn't?
    A: We really don't know.  Maybe they've used Linux so long that
       they've gotten used to it.  Some of these people haven't used
       Windows in years so they are comparing Linux to the last windows
       they used, maybe Windows 3.1 or 95.

7.2 Q: Why does everyone call you a troll when you ask something that
       questions linux?
    A: Most of the people here in C.O.L.A. think of Linux more like a
       religion than an OS.  They mostly are MS haters and feel that
       Linux is the greatest thing to ever hit computing.  So when
       someone questions Linux it's like questioning their belief
       system.  Instead of looking at it with some logic and reasonable
       judgment, they will lash out at you can't claim your are a troll
       or a paid MS supporter.

7.3 Q: Why does everyone <PLONK> you if you question Linux?
    A: Fairly similar to above, Linux advocates can not argue their
       point rationally.  So to make it look like you are under them or
       you are not worth it, and at the same time find an easy way out
       of having to prove themselves, they will <PLONK> you.

       (more to come...)

SECTION EIGHT - LINUX EVANGELISM, ZEALOTS
-----------------------------------------

8.1 Q: There are some people that call this FAQ lies and seem to treat it
       like it's a conspiracy against them, and post all sorts of links to
       anti-microsoft articles.  Why are they reacting so strongly?
    A:
...

read more »

Paul Cooke

  +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
  +                                                         +

<snip FUD & BS>

--
Add the next two proper digits to the e-mail to mail me.

Please ignore this guy, he is one of many who sole purpose of posting
here is the disrupt discussion in this news group

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--
       Source Mage Linux Grimore Guru
           Source Mage GNU/Linux
   Linux so advanced it may as well be magic
            www.sourcemage.org

<snip of offensive lies>

To all interested readers who are in COLA to find
out about Linux:

The post to which this is a response is an attempt
to portray Linux in a negative manner.

The poster, Scott Williams, has no intention of helping
your interest in Linux.

Any suggestions that Linux is other than what it is,
a decent OS with benefits regarding freedom, choice and
stability, should be evaluated by those reading COLA as
they relate to the charter of the newsgroup. Such negativity
as was demonstrated in the post to which this is a response
belongs in other newsgroups dedicated to complaints about
Linux. This newsgroup is supposed to provide a forum for
expressing positive views of Linux, for your benefit.

There are those of us who are here to advocate Linux, and
who will be happy to honestly answer your questions about
the benefits of the OS. Posts which you read that are obviously
anti-Linux are generated in large volume by a minority of
COLA posters who have an agenda to disrupt the exchange of
accurate information about the OS, it's environment, and what
you, as a potential Linux user, can expect to find when you
try the OS.

Some of these posts may seem credible, but all the information
is distorted, sometimes subtly, to make Linux appear to have
faults far out of proportion to any issues that may exist with
the OS.

It is unfortunate that you have been exposed to this mis-information.
We who enjoy the use of Linux hope that you will give it a try and
find out for yourself that is is a useable OS that will provide you
with a valuable tool to support your computing needs.

Trolling, Trolling, Trolling,... keep them WinTrolls
rolling, RAWHIDE!

Case in point would be ULTRA IDE. Linux had support for this a year
before Windows did.  

I have never ran into a PC which Suse or Mandrake didn't install
perfectly on.  All drivers working for the right hardware.

This author would have to be specific as to the exact type if
hardware he was writing about.  

And I'm sure he would provide this in his post if he knew what
he was talking about.

But he's talking about devices again and there is no setup to
devices other than just starting them.  I find Suse and Mandrake
to be supportive of every PC I've ever seen Linux installed on.

That includes MAC's and SUN/SPARC systems as well.

Again, he'd have to provide us with specifics about the PC in
question.  

I've never seen a PC for which Linux was being installed [LOCK UP].

Again, this is all selectable by the user during install.

This is just not an excuse to not like Linux.

The guy is actually complaining about being given a choice
in E-mail clients which is something Windows doesn't give you
at all.

But this is all rediculous as you have X based software like
file runner or evolution or the KDE browser which gives you
all the GUI tools you were used to when you ran Windows which
are easy for anyone to use.  

To read this, it's clear you spent about 5 minutes looking over
the OS and then trashed it.  

What you could have said which would be the truth is that
most Linux software is not as eye pleasing as Windows.

Now that would be true for about another 2 months, but
I really don't care.  I just want my software to work
and be fast and it is under Linux.  

rpm -i whatever.rpm tells you in simple english what you need
to install for dependencies.  

Suse's YAST2 does this automatically for you and so does Mandrakes
rpm installer.

Debian is far above all the RPM based systems in that it installs
.deb packages as dependencies automatically from the dselect
program.  Dselect is a dream to use.  It has all the packages
catagorized, 9000 of them, for easy selection.  

Never fails.  

RedHat users probably have to compile somethings.  But with Debian
and it's 9000+ packages, there is nothing which isn't already
compiled and ready to install.  

Best part about Debian is, I can map my apt sources to another
web site which is offering a set of packages I want installed
on my GNU/Debian Linux system and instruct apt-get to install
the whole mess with one simple command.  

You couldn't do that with RedHat, even if they had compiled
packages in the form of RPM's available.  

We don't collect boxes for the closet here.

This is a no boxes zone.

read more »

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
   Michael J. Tobler - motorcyclist, surfer, skydiver and author
     Authorship: "Inside Linux", "C++ Unleashed", "C++ How-To"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:> Excellent post Scott!!

> Keep up the fantastic work!!

Fantastic Fan*tas"tic, a. F. fantastique, fr. Gr. ???????????
   able to represent, fr. ????????? to make visible. See
   Fancy.
   1. Existing only in imagination; fanciful; imaginary; not
      real; chimerical.

   2. Having the nature of a phantom; unreal. --Shak.

   3. Indulging the vagaries of imagination; whimsical; full of
      absurd fancies; capricious; as, fantastic minds; a
      fantastic *.

   4. Resembling fantasies in irregularity, caprice, or
      eccentricity; irregular; oddly shaped; grotesque.

            There at the foot of yonder nodding beech, That
            wreathes its old fantastic roots so high. --T. Gray.

   Syn: Fanciful; imaginative; ideal; visionary; capricious;
        chimerical; whimsical; *. See Fanciful.

Fantastic Fan*tas"tic, n.
   A person given to fantastic dress, manners, etc.; an
   eccentric person; a fop. --Milton.

         Our fantastics, who, having a fine watch, take all
         ocasions to drow it out to be seen.      --Fuller.

--

Ian - looking through a glass onion

--
I run Linux, no *y RedHat, Debian, Slackware, or Corel, just Linux.
May all that you wish upon me and mine be visited upon you ten fold.

Consequently anybody that comes into here "for discussion of the
benefits of Linux compared to other operating systems" is welcome,
according to the charter.

As some people come in here to enter into discussions where they
say the benefits of Linux are less than some other system, this
leads to disputes.  But that is not "disrupting" the discussion,
that is merely a natural part of the discussion.  Some people may
not like that, but that's just plain too bad for them.  A lot of
things in life are not the way one wishes they were.  It's normal.

Quote:

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Peter
--
A NT server can be run by idiots and usually is