Very Computer

I've touched on this subject a couple of times before, but I just wanted
to drive the point home.

There are many commercial companies out there that are benefitting off of
the use of Open Source Software with their products, especially Linux in
embedded devices.

Linux powers cell phones, PDA's, robots, routers, communications devices,
Pocket PC's, and a whole slew of other specialized devices.

The thing is, where these companies that use embedded Linux are
benefitting and profiting off of using Linux in their products, they
provide little or no support for users of Linux and their products.

I have personally experienced this with three seperate products I own that
are linux powered.

What is this about?  Are these companies hypocrites?  It's ok to reap the
all the benefits of using Linux to drive our products but they are not
willing to make a committment to the community by providing support for
Linux users with their products?

I know that there is of course the financial aspect of it, but it still
seems to be negligent and hypocritical on the part of these companies.

That's my take on it anyway.

--
rapskat  -  1:25am  up 4 days, 11:09,  4 users,  load average: 0.07, 0.04, 0.01
drop the hot to mail me

Shit Happens. -- Forrest Gump (?)

Hi linsux, welcome to the corperate world, now bend over.

Quote:

> I have personally experienced this with three seperate products I own that
> are linux powered.

> What is this about?  Are these companies hypocrites?

No, they're out to make money.  And linux is providing a free way to
do that.  I wonder when the OSS people will get tired of doing all the
work while companies are raking in the $$$?

Quote:> It's ok to reap the
> all the benefits of using Linux to drive our products but they are not
> willing to make a committment to the community by providing support for
> Linux users with their products?

Where's the profit in that?

Quote:> I know that there is of course the financial aspect of it, but it still
> seems to be negligent and hypocritical on the part of these companies.

Not everyone's married to open source values.  If someone hands me a
wad of bills I'm not going to complain...

rapskat threw some tea leaves on the floor and this is what they

Quote:> There are many commercial companies out there that are
> benefitting off of the use of Open Source Software with their
> products, especially Linux in embedded devices.

> Linux powers cell phones, PDA's, robots, routers,
> communications devices, Pocket PC's, and a whole slew of other
> specialized devices.

> The thing is, where these companies that use embedded Linux are
> benefitting and profiting off of using Linux in their products,
> they provide little or no support for users of Linux and their
> products.

I think that users of Linux are not always Free Software
supporters, and this is also seen in the huge number of
anti-Linux spammers on Cola who use Linux as a router etc to save
money, but still spread fud about Linux.

--
              Kind Regards from Terry
My Desktop is powered by GNU/LinuX, Sorcerer kernel 2.4.17  
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Error Log for Mon, 29 Apr 2002 06:18:24 +0000: segfault in module "wjbell"
- dump details are as follows...

The thing is, there are many major corporations that have made a
commitment to Linux and the OSS community and are still turning a profit:
see IBM, Sun, DELL, etc.

The problem is with these companies that all they want to do is suck and
not blow.  They want to use Linux and OSS in their products to make money,
which there is nothing inherently wrong with that, but they should
contribute back to the community as well.

Unfortunately, M$ has set a precedent within the computing industry that
entails taking as much as possible for as little as possible and giving
nothing for free in return.

--
rapskat  -  6:05am  up 4 days, 15:49,  4 users,  load average: 0.30, 0.39, 0.44
drop the hot to mail me

May you die well. -- Anon. Klingon

Oh like microsoft version6 Licensing Scheme to F**k their loyal
customers out of even more $$$$?  HYPOCRITE

Quote:

> > I have personally experienced this with three seperate products I own that
> > are linux powered.

> > What is this about?  Are these companies hypocrites?

> No, they're out to make money.  And linux is providing a free way to
> do that.  I wonder when the OSS people will get tired of doing all the
> work while companies are raking in the $$$?

Yeah why do that when only (1) company should be allowed to do that..
HYPOCRITE

Quote:

> > It's ok to reap the
> > all the benefits of using Linux to drive our products but they are not
> > willing to make a committment to the community by providing support for
> > Linux users with their products?

> Where's the profit in that?

Exactly sort of like your M$  ehh???  HYPOCRITE

Quote:

> > I know that there is of course the financial aspect of it, but it still
> > seems to be negligent and hypocritical on the part of these companies.

> Not everyone's married to open source values.  If someone hands me a
> wad of bills I'm not going to complain...

YAWNnn..................

 [Some observations about the predatory exploitation of Linux by unconscionable
corporations]

[Snip some snide commentry from wjbell]

Quote:

> >> It's ok to reap the
> >> all the benefits of using Linux to drive our products but they are not
> >> willing to make a committment to the community by providing support for
> >> Linux users with their products?

> > Where's the profit in that?

Goodwill?  Advertising point for marketing to exploit?  General overall improvement
in the product to reduce tech support costs, and improve sales?  Maybe even new
products to sell?

Quote:

> >> I know that there is of course the financial aspect of it, but it still
> >> seems to be negligent and hypocritical on the part of these companies.

> > Not everyone's married to open source values.  If someone hands me a wad
> > of bills I'm not going to complain...

Maybe so, but for corporations taking a long view there are pragmatic reasons to be
good citizens.

[ More snipping]

Quote:> --
> rapskat  -  6:05am  up 4 days, 15:49,  4 users,  load average: 0.30, 0.39, 0.44
> drop the hot to mail me

> May you die well. -- Anon. Klingon

Sorry for posting through you rapskat, but my ISP has taken to deleting most
newsgroup messages after only 6 to 8 hours, and not even getting some of them in
the first place.  This was the simplest way I could find to reply to wj's
contemptuous utterings.

regards
Jim

A *lot* have bought linux. Most of the SuSE users for example.
You have no point. But that is normal, you never have one

Peter
--
Only two things are infinite,
 the Universe and Stupidity.
And I'm not quite sure about the former.
        - Albert Einstein

Error Log for Tue, 30 Apr 2002 09:06:27 +0000: segfault in module "Sam
Richards" - dump details are as follows...

Quote:>>That's my take on it anyway.

> Most cola regulars are hypocrites, there was a thread a while ago where
> I said you guys should be buying packages to support Linux.

> Almost without exception you all said you would NOT pay for Linux

*ahem*  I have purchased the boxed versions of many of the distros that I
have downloaded and am using, this includes RedHat and Mandrake.  Not
because I *had* to, but to offer my financial support for their excellent
products.

Plus I have just kicked out $500 USD for a Linux powered device (well, the
wife did, but it's all the same money ;-)

Quote:> You are the hypocrites

Remember this the next time you load up that cracked version of Photoshop
or Quicken or PaintShop Pro or whatever you are using on your system that
you didn't pay for.  And don't even try to tell me that you don't.

Quote:> Sam

Who cares?  I like the other version better, at least he was amusing!

--
rapskat  -  5:45am  up 5 days, 15:29,  5 users,  load average: 0.15, 0.19, 0.15
drop the hot to mail me

You Know You Need To Upgrade When...
The only web you know of  is the one you found on your hard drive.

I picked up my first x86 PC on July 22, 1994.

(No, my memory is not that good...I happened to have mentioned it in a post
on that day...a post asking Apple to harness the A/UX community to improve
A/UX, and cited Linux as an example of what could happen...here's the URL in
case anyone is curious:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&selm
=30ok5h%2480i%40news.u.washington.edu

it is interesting to speculate where Apple might be today if they had read
that and taken my suggestion.  But I digress....)

Anyway, in that time, I think I've actually spent *MORE* money on Linux
distributions than I have on Windows. :-)

I'm not counting Windows that was bundled with machines...just what I've
went out and spent directly.  Here are the Windows purchases I recall.
Prices are approximate and from memory.

$ 50    Windows for Workgroups
$ 90    Windows 95
$130    Windows NT
$200    Windows XP Pro

So, that's $470 for Windows.

For Linux, I can recall the following:

    RedHat 6.1 retail box
    RedHat 7.1 retail box
    RedHat 7.2 retail box
    At least one RedHat 5.x retail box
    The Mandrake retail box that was for running on top of Windows systems
    At least one SuSE retail box
    An official Debian at retail a few years ago
    Yggdrasil's retail distribution
    At least three years worth of the quarterly Infomagik CD sets to get
        Slackware and other distributions, and other updates
    At least one retail Caldera box

I'm pretty sure I'm missing some there.

I think that comes to a bit more than $470.
Even if we through in the initial Windows licenses (one for that original
PC, and a WinMe license when I bought my second PC), I think I've still
spent more on Linux.

The thing with all that Linux stuff is that I bought it for *convenience*,
If I had wanted to, I could have spent considerably less money, at the cost
of more time downloading and burning discs.
With Windows, there was no choice.

And, of course, I got all kinds of things besides the OS for that Linux
money, that I had to spend more for on Windows.  E.g., all my development
tools.  Linux was defintely worth every penny.

For completeness, here are other OS purchases I can recall:

OS/2:
    2.x retail
    Warp 3 retail
    Warp 4 retail

FreeBSD:
    Bought the "Complete FreeBSD" book, which has the CDs
    Bought the official discs from Walnut Creek a couple of times

Mac:
    A/UX, for approximately $500

Quote:> You said that you don't buy commercial Linux packages. So I would
> regard you as a parasite on Linux.

> You don't put your money were your mouth is. Talk is cheap.

> Sam

Mandrake 8.0 Powerpack edition = 50 (UK pounds)
was given Suse 7.1 Personal by a friend when he upgraded to 7.3
Will be buying the Mandrake Powerpack edition again when it has KDE 3.0 as
standard. Currently have mandrake 8.2 on this machine and 8.0 on the other
two and will be trying peanutlinux out in the near future on an old pentium
I've just acquired for the grand sum of 20. That pentium will become my
firewall machine to replace the old 486DX66, that way I can standardise on
packages compiled for the 586 and 686 options.

Will also be trying Suse 8.0 soon.

Paul Cooke

Sam Richards (The 1st) had this to say:

 [snipped some comments from Terry Porter]

Quote:> You said that you don't buy commercial Linux packages. So I would
> regard you as a parasite on Linux.
> You don't put your money were your mouth is. Talk is cheap.

Whoops, I just realised that there's ways of supporting an operating
system or even a whole movement and philosophy without having to go
out and buy boxed copies of a distribution.

I made a silly mistake, and I'm quite ashamed of it.  Sorry everyone.

Linux still can't run Photoshop though so it's the sucks.

Sam
QUIT

Quote:> Sam Richards had this highly visible bowel movement:
>> Most cola regulars are hypocrites, there was a thread a while ago
>> where I said you guys should be buying packages to support Linux.
>> Almost without exception you all said you would NOT pay for Linux

See, I'm such a clever Windows user that I managed to call you all
hypocrites because you don't conform to /my/ belief system! Hahaha!
I don't think anybody even spotted this because they're too busy
reading their "man pages" and "kernel source".  Guffaw!

Quote:> *ahem*  I have purchased the boxed versions of many of the distros
> that I have downloaded and am using, this includes RedHat and
> Mandrake.  Not because I *had* to, but to offer my financial support
> for their excellent products.
> Plus I have just kicked out $500 USD for a Linux powered device (well,
> the wife did, but it's all the same money ;-)

That doesn't go to a linux distribution company it goes to SHARP and
they don't count.

Quote:>> You are the hypocrites

..because you don't conform to my belief system!  I said you all
should buy packages and you said you didn't have to and wouldn't do
so most of the time, so you're all hypocrites!  After all:

 hypocrite
      n : a person who professes beliefs and opinions that they do not
          hold [syn: {dissembler}, {phony}, {phoney}, {pretender}]

And since I'm the one that said you should buy packages and then you
all said you wouldn't clearly you're hypocrites!  Hope I've made
myself sufficiently clear for you stupid linsux geeks to follow!

Quote:> Remember this the next time you load up that cracked version of
> Photoshop or Quicken or PaintShop Pro or whatever you are using on
> your system that you didn't pay for.  And don't even try to tell me
> that you don't.

No you're lying because they SELL their product and it's illegal to
copy it so most people buy it and they get lots of money so it doesn't
matter if *I* personally copy it because very few people do!

But with linsux most people just copy it and don't buy it!  So it is
more hurtful to the company.  Microsoft for instance wouldn't even be
able to count a tiny little $500 for one copy of Windows XP because
their OS only are 32bit and can't store their whole bank balance in
one variable so they just truncate it to the nearest million dollars,
i.e. if "balance = 30" it means they have $30,000,000 and that's a
great number of zeros.  See how good Windows compression is?  Removed
six unneeded zeros to store the same number!!!

But anyway it's not hypocritical to copy commercial applications even
though it's "illegal" because they don't notice so much.  Copying your
freeware linsux is though because everyone does it.  e.g. 10% copy say
Windows but 90% buy it, but 90% copy linsux and 10% buy it!

Quote:>> Sam
> Who cares?  I like the other version better, at least he was amusing!

Typical linonerd, always lying!

Lying always, that's the linonerds!

Sam (feeling rather redundant tonight)
QUIT

Hi Greycloud.

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Tue, 30 Apr 2002 at 18:23 GMT, peering quizzically at his shoes,

Quote:> Hi Greycloud.

*chuckle*

Maybe you should utilize the power of you new bsd system to find out
who really did the impersonation. If you do, you /may/ get it right.

Oh, and stop top-posting and learn to trim. Thanks.

hth,

     /Johan
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