Very Computer

> Windows 3.11 For Workgroups (to play my huge collection of legacy games)

> Linux (to fulfil whatever purpose is flavour of the month ... this month
> its "Backup Server" using a combination of NovaNet for regular files and
> dd + NFS for imaging.)

> Hardware:

> Mobo - PcChips M560 ALi Aladdin IV/IV+ Socket 7 (Yes, amazingly I actually
> managed to correctly identify a PcChips mobo)

> CPU - Classic Pentium 233 MX (586)

> VGA - Diamond Stealth 64 (S3 Trio64V+ PCI [765])

> Offboard IDE - Promise Ultra66

> HD - IBM "DeathStar" 21Gb (boot) and 76Gb (storage) respectively on the
> Promise controller.

> CD - TDK 16x10x40 CDRW on Ali M5229 IDE 0:0 Master

> NIC - Netgear FA310TX

> Tape - OnStream DI-30 on Ali M5229 IDE 0:1 Slave

> Audio - Creative SoundBlaster AWE64 Gold

> Mouse, Keyboard etc of no consequence.

> Installation:

> Win311 - Smooth, no problems (Networked using TCP via router. File-sharing
> etc no problem)
> Win98SE - Ditto, only easier (all hardware enumerated straight out the
> box) (Note - I don't want Win98SE on this box, its a temporary measure
> until I find a resolution to the RH install problem)
> Red Hat 8.0 - Install failure (Everything Install), Unstable (Minimum
> Install)

> Opinion:

> My opinions are based on RH 8.0 installed on this system only. In a
> different setup, it is natural to assume that some of the issues raised
> would not exist at all/to the same extent.

> Hi,

> Let me start by saying that I am writing this from OE on Win98, since I'm
> having trouble installing RH (and I'm not at home so I don't have access
to
> my other computers). So no flames please.

> I did have lots of questions, but a read through linux.redhat.install, RH
> Bugzilla, and various Google searches has pretty much answered those
> questions.

> Since I'm going to be inflicting you with my opinions, I think it only
fair
> that I introduce myself (in an anonymous fashion!)

> Experience:
> Systems used (chronological order 1970's - present day)

> Commodore PET
> Apple IIE
> BBC A/B
> Sinclair ZX80/81/Spectrum
> Commodore Amiga (500/Plus/4000T)
> IBM AT/XT Compatibles (Various)
> VAX (VMS/Berkley Unix)

> Education:

> BSc Comp.Sci (Hons)
> Currently saving for RHCE course.

> Background:

> I'm a hoarder; I never throw anything away. This includes computer
hardware.
> When I upgrade, the old bits get "archived" in a cupboard for a rainy day.
> When I collect enough old "bits" ... a new computer is born. So it goes
with
> my latest project.

> Goal:

> Create a two-way multiboot system comprising:

> Windows 3.11 For Workgroups (to play my huge collection of legacy games)

> Linux (to fulfil whatever purpose is flavour of the month ... this month
> its "Backup Server" using a combination of NovaNet for regular files and
dd
> + NFS for imaging.)

> Hardware:

> I realise the hardware involved here is hardly "bleeding edge" - that's
not
> the point, the point is to recycle and "find a loving home for" unwanted
> bits. Some of the following hardware was specifically bought (second hand
> off eBay) just to complete the project (with Win311 compatibility / driver
> availability in mind)

> Mobo - PcChips M560 ALi Aladdin IV/IV+ Socket 7 (Yes, amazingly I actually
> managed to correctly identify a PcChips mobo)

> CPU - Classic Pentium 233 MX (586)

> VGA - Diamond Stealth 64 (S3 Trio64V+ PCI [765])

> Offboard IDE - Promise Ultra66

> HD - IBM "DeathStar" 21Gb (boot) and 76Gb (storage) respectively on the
> Promise controller.

> CD - TDK 16x10x40 CDRW on Ali M5229 IDE 0:0 Master

> NIC - Netgear FA310TX

> Tape - OnStream DI-30 on Ali M5229 IDE 0:1 Slave

> Audio - Creative SoundBlaster AWE64 Gold

> Mouse, Keyboard etc of no consequence.

> Installation:

> Win311 - Smooth, no problems (Networked using TCP via router. File-sharing
> etc no problem)
> Win98SE - Ditto, only easier (all hardware enumerated straight out the
box)
> (Note - I don't want Win98SE on this box, its a temporary measure until I
> find a resolution to the RH install problem)
> Red Hat 8.0 - Install failure (Everything Install), Unstable (Minimum
> Install)

> Opinion:

> My opinions are based on RH 8.0 installed on this system only. In a
> different setup, it is natural to assume that some of the issues raised
> would not exist at all/to the same extent.

> I've been reading with interest about a lot of people having problems with
> the install images. There's been a lot of talk about ftp corruption of
ISOs
> via asc Vs bin download method. I have to say that I am also a victim of
> this, but not because I don't know how to type "bin" at the ftp> prompt.
> There seems to be a conspiracy of circumstances at work here. I, like many
> others, have been getting corrupt RH ISOs from many different servers. I
> have downloaded these ISO's using tools such as ftp, wget, curl, GetRight,
> WS_FTP and others, in different versions of different operating systems
...
> and all with the same result. This, combined with the fact that I have
> successfully downloaded many ISO's over the years (including RH ISO's)
leads
> me to suspect that something stinks in suburbia. I finally found a set of
> ISO's that passed the md5 check, but the rest remains a mystery. To all
> those who have wasted many hours downloading corrupted ISO's - my
sympathy.

> Unfortunately, it goes downhill from here.

> RH 8.0 simply will not install on this computer. Not without some long
> laborious effort - and even then it is not stable. The errors range from
> system freezes to panics and are reproducible. When I am finally offered
> some kind of core dump - it contains messages like "memory.c 117 bad pmd
> <hex number>" and "invalid path". For the longest time I was convinced I
had
> a bad SDRAM, but it now turns out that its a problem with the CD itself.
It
> seems that even when it passes the md5 check and RH's "mediacheck" there
is
> still some obscure error on the disk that causes a lockup. I even
considered
> the possibility that the CDRom drive was faulty/overheating (a common
> problem) but then I realised that surely it would have manifested during
the
> Win98 install. I have tried different media too (some drives balk with
> certain media) ... but then so much of my other software (backups ...
ahem)
> are on the same media and read on the same drive - without problem. I'm
> suspicious of isolinux. I'm also deeply suspicious of RH's "customised"
> kernel. There is more than the passing possibility that gcc3.2 has
something
> to do with it (oh no not gcc problems again!). Whatever it is, all this is
> mere speculation (FUD alert), but the undeniable fact is it is affecting a
> huge number of people. So there.

> I did finally manage to get RH 8.0 installed, by opting for a minimum
> install then rpm'ing the remaining packages once logged on. Even then it
> took several attempts, since rpm periodically froze at random points,
> requiring a hard reset. I never did manage to verify all the packages
since
> "rpm -va" bombed every time, but I do know that I was left with a system
> that was more unstable than Win98 on a very, very bad day.

> Stability issues aside (its subjective/speculative anyway), what do I
think
> of RH 8.0?

> Erik Troan, Red Hat's director of product marketing, has said that he is
> "... waiting to see whether customers give [Bluecurve] a 'thumbs up,' or a
> 'thumbs down.'". Overall, I'd have to go with Caesar and give it a 'thumbs
> down'. It isn't that I don't like the pretty colours, or even that we have
> been stripped of freedom of choice in the name of "a consistent look and
> feel [which is] 'polished' and more '3D.'" Its more that the whole thing
> stinks to high Redmond.

> Let me mix a little politics with some psychology and see what we come up
> with:

> Microsoft. The Blue Team (the prevailing colour in their Operating
Systems,
> and generally recognised as their "Team Colour". I believe Microsoft once
> tried to copyright the colour Blue, only to discover that Disney had
beaten
> them to it.). Blue as in "right wing" or "capitalist". Advocating the
ideals
> of Commerce; Profit; Greed; and Advancement through Corruption.
> The champion of proprietary, closed source, bloatware.

> Red Hat. The Red Team. Red as in "socialist" or even ... dare I say
> "communist" (McCarthy alert). Advocating the ideals of Freedom; Openness;
> Sharing; and Advancement through Co-operation. The champion of standards
> based, opensource, software.

> Bluecurve. Blue as in ... wait a minute ... blue? BLUE? Curve as in ...
> "U-Turn".

> Now look at the Bluecurve theme.

> Look again.

> Scary, isn't it?

> Now try to play an MP3 file, and after you've read the error message go
over
> to http://www.redhat.com/advice/speaks_80mm.html and gasp in disbelief.

> Now ask Bernhard "bero" Rosenkraenzer why he resigned from Red Hat.

> Red Hat and Bluecurve in the same sentence! For those of you in the UK,
> you'll understand what I mean when I say "New Labour". See the connection.
> Why don't Red Hat go all the way and just rename the company "Microsoft
II"?

> Ok, so I'm really, really reading between the lines now but ... I wonder.

> Now that fact that certain packages have been dumped is not of great
concern
> to me. For example, gnorpm was always a dog, I don't think I ever managed
to
> get it to work. I always preferred KPackage anyway (oh no, I used the "K"
> word, somebody call the RedHat police). And it makes me laugh how they
refer
> to the dumping of packages as "depreciated". Depreciated - there's a
> euphemism if I ever heard one. It reminds me of the use of the word
> "Retirement" in Blade Runner.

> It isn't Bluecurve or the instability or even the bloat that worries me.
It
> isn't the breaking of backwards compatibility either (gcc, XFree86). It
> isn't even the exclusion of certain packages.

> Its the motive.

> As that ancient Chinese philosopher, Garth Algar, once said, "We fear
> change."

> I'm with Garth.

> There's a part of me that respects Red Hat's desire to compete with
> Microsoft. However, they've publicly stated that RH 8.0/Blucurve is *not*
an
> attempt to replace Windows on the desktop. So what *is* it then? Linux for
> Lamers(R)?

> I think the MP3 "thing" is a bigger clue than Blucurve. Troan concedes
that
> "It may not have been the legally necessary decision."

> "... may not ..." ?

> So the legal situation becomes "muddier" and Red Hat sells out? Jesus
wept.

> Hey, maybe the MPAA; DVD-CCA; DMCA; and WIPO are right, and that
> Linux users do not have the right to watch their legally purchased DVDs on
> their computers. Lets "depreciate" xine.

> Oh, and Evolution looks a lot like Outlook, let's "depreciate" that too.

> Can't Red Hat see, that the only thing they are "depreciating" is their
> userbase.

> I accept that Red Hat are probably only trying to fight Microsoft on their
> own terms ("keep it legit"), but they could at least wait until they are
in
> the game before selling out to right-wing idealism.

> Then again, how "legit" have Microsoft ever been? Ask RealNetworks,

>> Hi,

>> Let me start by saying that I am writing this from OE on Win98, since I'm
>> having trouble installing RH (and I'm not at home so I don't have access
> to
>> my other computers). So no flames please.

>> I did have lots of questions, but a read through linux.redhat.install, RH
>> Bugzilla, and various Google searches has pretty much answered those
>> questions.

>> Since I'm going to be inflicting you with my opinions, I think it only
> fair
>> that I introduce myself (in an anonymous fashion!)

>> Experience:
>> Systems used (chronological order 1970's - present day)

>> Commodore PET
>> Apple IIE
>> BBC A/B
>> Sinclair ZX80/81/Spectrum
>> Commodore Amiga (500/Plus/4000T)
>> IBM AT/XT Compatibles (Various)
>> VAX (VMS/Berkley Unix)

>> Education:

>> BSc Comp.Sci (Hons)
>> Currently saving for RHCE course.

>> Background:

>> I'm a hoarder; I never throw anything away. This includes computer
> hardware.
>> When I upgrade, the old bits get "archived" in a cupboard for a rainy day.
>> When I collect enough old "bits" ... a new computer is born. So it goes
> with
>> my latest project.

>> Goal:

>> Create a two-way multiboot system comprising:

>> Windows 3.11 For Workgroups (to play my huge collection of legacy games)

>> Linux (to fulfil whatever purpose is flavour of the month ... this month
>> its "Backup Server" using a combination of NovaNet for regular files and
> dd
>> + NFS for imaging.)

>> Hardware:

>> I realise the hardware involved here is hardly "bleeding edge" - that's
> not
>> the point, the point is to recycle and "find a loving home for" unwanted
>> bits. Some of the following hardware was specifically bought (second hand
>> off eBay) just to complete the project (with Win311 compatibility / driver
>> availability in mind)

>> Mobo - PcChips M560 ALi Aladdin IV/IV+ Socket 7 (Yes, amazingly I actually
>> managed to correctly identify a PcChips mobo)

>> CPU - Classic Pentium 233 MX (586)

>> VGA - Diamond Stealth 64 (S3 Trio64V+ PCI [765])

>> Offboard IDE - Promise Ultra66

>> HD - IBM "DeathStar" 21Gb (boot) and 76Gb (storage) respectively on the
>> Promise controller.

>> CD - TDK 16x10x40 CDRW on Ali M5229 IDE 0:0 Master

>> NIC - Netgear FA310TX

>> Tape - OnStream DI-30 on Ali M5229 IDE 0:1 Slave

>> Audio - Creative SoundBlaster AWE64 Gold

>> Mouse, Keyboard etc of no consequence.

>> Installation:

>> Win311 - Smooth, no problems (Networked using TCP via router. File-sharing
>> etc no problem)
>> Win98SE - Ditto, only easier (all hardware enumerated straight out the
> box)
>> (Note - I don't want Win98SE on this box, its a temporary measure until I
>> find a resolution to the RH install problem)
>> Red Hat 8.0 - Install failure (Everything Install), Unstable (Minimum
>> Install)

>> Opinion:

>> My opinions are based on RH 8.0 installed on this system only. In a
>> different setup, it is natural to assume that some of the issues raised
>> would not exist at all/to the same extent.

>> I've been reading with interest about a lot of people having problems with
>> the install images. There's been a lot of talk about ftp corruption of
> ISOs
>> via asc Vs bin download method. I have to say that I am also a victim of
>> this, but not because I don't know how to type "bin" at the ftp> prompt.
>> There seems to be a conspiracy of circumstances at work here. I, like many
>> others, have been getting corrupt RH ISOs from many different servers. I
>> have downloaded these ISO's using tools such as ftp, wget, curl, GetRight,
>> WS_FTP and others, in different versions of different operating systems
> ...
>> and all with the same result. This, combined with the fact that I have
>> successfully downloaded many ISO's over the years (including RH ISO's)
> leads
>> me to suspect that something stinks in suburbia. I finally found a set of
>> ISO's that passed the md5 check, but the rest remains a mystery. To all
>> those who have wasted many hours downloading corrupted ISO's - my
> sympathy.

>> Unfortunately, it goes downhill from here.

>> RH 8.0 simply will not install on this computer. Not without some long
>> laborious effort - and even then it is not stable. The errors range from
>> system freezes to panics and are reproducible. When I am finally offered
>> some kind of core dump - it contains messages like "memory.c 117 bad pmd
>> <hex number>" and "invalid path". For the longest time I was convinced I
> had
>> a bad SDRAM, but it now turns out that its a problem with the CD itself.
> It
>> seems that even when it passes the md5 check and RH's "mediacheck" there
> is
>> still some obscure error on the disk that causes a lockup. I even
> considered
>> the possibility that the CDRom drive was faulty/overheating (a common
>> problem) but then I realised that surely it would have manifested during
> the
>> Win98 install. I have tried different media too (some drives balk with
>> certain media) ... but then so much of my other software (backups ...
> ahem)
>> are on the same media and read on the same drive - without problem. I'm
>> suspicious of isolinux. I'm also deeply suspicious of RH's "customised"
>> kernel. There is more than the passing possibility that gcc3.2 has
> something
>> to do with it (oh no not gcc problems again!). Whatever it is, all this is
>> mere speculation (FUD alert), but the undeniable fact is it is affecting a
>> huge number of people. So there.

>> I did finally manage to get RH 8.0 installed, by opting for a minimum
>> install then rpm'ing the remaining packages once logged on. Even then it
>> took several attempts, since rpm periodically froze at random points,
>> requiring a hard reset. I never did manage to verify all the packages
> since
>> "rpm -va" bombed every time, but I do know that I was left with a system
>> that was more unstable than Win98 on a very, very bad day.

>> Stability issues aside (its subjective/speculative anyway), what do I
> think
>> of RH 8.0?

>> Erik Troan, Red Hat's director of product marketing, has said that he is
>> "... waiting to see whether customers give [Bluecurve] a 'thumbs up,' or a
>> 'thumbs down.'". Overall, I'd have to go with Caesar and give it a 'thumbs
>> down'. It isn't that I don't like the pretty colours, or even that we have
>> been stripped of freedom of choice in the name of "a consistent look and
>> feel [which is] 'polished' and more '3D.'" Its more that the whole thing
>> stinks to high Redmond.

>> Let me mix a little politics with some psychology and see what we come up
>> with:

>> Microsoft. The Blue Team (the prevailing colour in their Operating
> Systems,
>> and generally recognised as their "Team Colour". I believe Microsoft once
>> tried to copyright the colour Blue, only to discover that Disney had
> beaten
>> them to it.). Blue as in "right wing" or "capitalist". Advocating the
> ideals
>> of Commerce; Profit; Greed; and Advancement through Corruption.
>> The champion of proprietary, closed source, bloatware.

>> Red Hat. The Red Team. Red as in "socialist" or even ... dare I say
>> "communist" (McCarthy alert). Advocating the ideals of Freedom; Openness;
>> Sharing; and Advancement through Co-operation. The champion of standards
>> based, opensource, software.

>> Bluecurve. Blue as in ... wait a minute ... blue? BLUE? Curve as in ...
>> "U-Turn".

>> Now look at the Bluecurve theme.

>> Look again.

>> Scary, isn't it?

>> Now try to play an MP3 file, and after you've read the error message go
> over
>> to http://www.redhat.com/advice/speaks_80mm.html and gasp in disbelief.

>> Now ask Bernhard "bero" Rosenkraenzer why he resigned from Red Hat.

>> Red Hat and Bluecurve in the same sentence! For those of you in the UK,
>> you'll understand what I mean when I say "New Labour". See the connection.
>> Why don't Red Hat go all the way and just rename the company "Microsoft
> II"?

>> Ok, so I'm really, really reading between the lines now but ... I wonder.

>> Now that fact that certain packages have been dumped is not of great
> concern
>> to me. For example, gnorpm was always a dog, I don't think I ever managed
> to
>> get it to work. I always preferred KPackage anyway (oh no, I used the "K"
>> word, somebody call the RedHat police). And it makes me laugh how they
> refer
>> to the dumping of packages as "depreciated". Depreciated - there's a
>> euphemism if I ever heard one. It reminds me of the use of the word
>> "Retirement" in Blade Runner.

>> It isn't Bluecurve or the instability or even the bloat that worries me.
> It
>> isn't the breaking of backwards compatibility either (gcc, XFree86). It
>> isn't even the exclusion of certain packages.

>> Its the motive.

>> As that ancient Chinese philosopher, Garth Algar, once said, "We fear
>> change."

>> I'm with Garth.

>> There's a part of me that respects Red Hat's desire to compete with
>> Microsoft. However, they've publicly stated that RH 8.0/Blucurve is *not*
> an
>> attempt to replace Windows on the desktop. So what *is* it then? Linux for
>> Lamers(R)?

>> I think the MP3 "thing" is a bigger clue than Blucurve. Troan concedes
> that
>> "It may not have been the legally necessary decision."

>> "... may not ..." ?

>> So the legal situation becomes "muddier" and Red Hat sells out? Jesus
> wept.

>> Hey, maybe the MPAA; DVD-CCA; DMCA; and WIPO are right, and that
>> Linux users do

> Hi,

> Let me start by saying that I am writing this from OE on Win98, since I'm
> having trouble installing RH (and I'm not at home so I don't have access to
> my other computers). So no flames please.

> I did have lots of questions, but a read through linux.redhat.install, RH
> Bugzilla, and various Google searches has pretty much answered those
> questions.

> Since I'm going to be inflicting you with my opinions, I think it only fair
> that I introduce myself (in an anonymous fashion!)

> Experience:
> Systems used (chronological order 1970's - present day)

> Commodore PET
> Apple IIE
> BBC A/B
> Sinclair ZX80/81/Spectrum
> Commodore Amiga (500/Plus/4000T)
> IBM AT/XT Compatibles (Various)
> VAX (VMS/Berkley Unix)

> Education:

> BSc Comp.Sci (Hons)
> Currently saving for RHCE course.

> Background:

> I'm a hoarder; I never throw anything away. This includes computer hardware.
> When I upgrade, the old bits get "archived" in a cupboard for a rainy day.
> When I collect enough old "bits" ... a new computer is born. So it goes with
> my latest project.

> Goal:

> Create a two-way multiboot system comprising:

> Windows 3.11 For Workgroups (to play my huge collection of legacy games)

> Linux (to fulfil whatever purpose is flavour of the month ... this month
> its "Backup Server" using a combination of NovaNet for regular files and dd
> + NFS for imaging.)

> Hardware:

> I realise the hardware involved here is hardly "bleeding edge" - that's not
> the point, the point is to recycle and "find a loving home for" unwanted
> bits. Some of the following hardware was specifically bought (second hand
> off eBay) just to complete the project (with Win311 compatibility / driver
> availability in mind)

> Mobo - PcChips M560 ALi Aladdin IV/IV+ Socket 7 (Yes, amazingly I actually
> managed to correctly identify a PcChips mobo)

> CPU - Classic Pentium 233 MX (586)

> VGA - Diamond Stealth 64 (S3 Trio64V+ PCI [765])

> Offboard IDE - Promise Ultra66

> HD - IBM "DeathStar" 21Gb (boot) and 76Gb (storage) respectively on the
> Promise controller.

> CD - TDK 16x10x40 CDRW on Ali M5229 IDE 0:0 Master

> NIC - Netgear FA310TX

> Tape - OnStream DI-30 on Ali M5229 IDE 0:1 Slave

> Audio - Creative SoundBlaster AWE64 Gold

> Mouse, Keyboard etc of no consequence.

> Installation:

> Win311 - Smooth, no problems (Networked using TCP via router. File-sharing
> etc no problem)
> Win98SE - Ditto, only easier (all hardware enumerated straight out the box)
> (Note - I don't want Win98SE on this box, its a temporary measure until I
> find a resolution to the RH install problem)
> Red Hat 8.0 - Install failure (Everything Install), Unstable (Minimum
> Install)

> Opinion:

> My opinions are based on RH 8.0 installed on this system only. In a
> different setup, it is natural to assume that some of the issues raised
> would not exist at all/to the same extent.

> I've been reading with interest about a lot of people having problems with
> the install images. There's been a lot of talk about ftp corruption of ISOs
> via asc Vs bin download method. I have to say that I am also a victim of
> this, but not because I don't know how to type "bin" at the ftp> prompt.
> There seems to be a conspiracy of circumstances at work here. I, like many
> others, have been getting corrupt RH ISOs from many different servers. I
> have downloaded these ISO's using tools such as ftp, wget, curl, GetRight,
> WS_FTP and others, in different versions of different operating systems ...
> and all with the same result. This, combined with the fact that I have
> successfully downloaded many ISO's over the years (including RH ISO's) leads
> me to suspect that something stinks in suburbia. I finally found a set of
> ISO's that passed the md5 check, but the rest remains a mystery. To all
> those who have wasted many hours downloading corrupted ISO's - my sympathy.

> Unfortunately, it goes downhill from here.

> RH 8.0 simply will not install on this computer. Not without some long
> laborious effort - and even then it is not stable. The errors range from
> system freezes to panics and are reproducible. When I am finally offered
> some kind of core dump - it contains messages like "memory.c 117 bad pmd
> <hex number>" and "invalid path". For the longest time I was convinced I had
> a bad SDRAM, but it now turns out that its a problem with the CD itself. It
> seems that even when it passes the md5 check and RH's "mediacheck" there is
> still some obscure error on the disk that causes a lockup. I even considered
> the possibility that the CDRom drive was faulty/overheating (a common
> problem) but then I realised that surely it would have manifested during the
> Win98 install. I have tried different media too (some drives balk with
> certain media) ... but then so much of my other software (backups ... ahem)
> are on the same media and read on the same drive - without problem. I'm
> suspicious of isolinux. I'm also deeply suspicious of RH's "customised"
> kernel. There is more than the passing possibility that gcc3.2 has something
> to do with it (oh no not gcc problems again!). Whatever it is, all this is
> mere speculation (FUD alert), but the undeniable fact is it is affecting a
> huge number of people. So there.

> I did finally manage to get RH 8.0 installed, by opting for a minimum
> install then rpm'ing the remaining packages once logged on. Even then it
> took several attempts, since rpm periodically froze at random points,
> requiring a hard reset. I never did manage to verify all the packages since
> "rpm -va" bombed every time, but I do know that I was left with a system
> that was more unstable than Win98 on a very, very bad day.

> Stability issues aside (its subjective/speculative anyway), what do I think
> of RH 8.0?

> Erik Troan, Red Hat's director of product marketing, has said that he is
> "... waiting to see whether customers give [Bluecurve] a 'thumbs up,' or a
> 'thumbs down.'". Overall, I'd have to go with Caesar and give it a 'thumbs
> down'. It isn't that I don't like the pretty colours, or even that we have
> been stripped of freedom of choice in the name of "a consistent look and
> feel [which is] 'polished' and more '3D.'" Its more that the whole thing
> stinks to high Redmond.

> Let me mix a little politics with some psychology and see what we come up
> with:

> Microsoft. The Blue Team (the prevailing colour in their Operating Systems,
> and generally recognised as their "Team Colour". I believe Microsoft once
> tried to copyright the colour Blue, only to discover that Disney had beaten
> them to it.). Blue as in "right wing" or "capitalist". Advocating the ideals
> of Commerce; Profit; Greed; and Advancement through Corruption.
> The champion of proprietary, closed source, bloatware.

> Red Hat. The Red Team. Red as in "socialist" or even ... dare I say
> "communist" (McCarthy alert). Advocating the ideals of Freedom; Openness;
> Sharing; and Advancement through Co-operation. The champion of standards
> based, opensource, software.

> Bluecurve. Blue as in ... wait a minute ... blue? BLUE? Curve as in ...
> "U-Turn".

> Now look at the Bluecurve theme.

> Look again.

> Scary, isn't it?

> Now try to play an MP3 file, and after you've read the error message go over
> to http://www.redhat.com/advice/speaks_80mm.html and gasp in disbelief.

> Now ask Bernhard "bero" Rosenkraenzer why he resigned from Red Hat.

> Red Hat and Bluecurve in the same sentence! For those of you in the UK,
> you'll understand what I mean when I say "New Labour". See the connection.
> Why don't Red Hat go all the way and just rename the company "Microsoft II"?

> Ok, so I'm really, really reading between the lines now but ... I wonder.

> Now that fact that certain packages have been dumped is not of great concern
> to me. For example, gnorpm was always a dog, I don't think I ever managed to
> get it to work. I always preferred KPackage anyway (oh no, I used the "K"
> word, somebody call the RedHat police). And it makes me laugh how they refer
> to the dumping of packages as "depreciated". Depreciated - there's a
> euphemism if I ever heard one. It reminds me of the use of the word
> "Retirement" in Blade Runner.

> It isn't Bluecurve or the instability or even the bloat that worries me. It
> isn't the breaking of backwards compatibility either (gcc, XFree86). It
> isn't even the exclusion of certain packages.

> Its the motive.

> As that ancient Chinese philosopher, Garth Algar, once said, "We fear
> change."

> I'm with Garth.

> There's a part of me that respects Red Hat's desire to compete with
> Microsoft. However, they've publicly stated that RH 8.0/Blucurve is *not* an
> attempt to replace Windows on the desktop. So what *is* it then? Linux for
> Lamers(R)?

> I think the MP3 "thing" is a bigger clue than Blucurve. Troan concedes that
> "It may not have been the legally necessary decision."

> "... may not ..." ?

> So the legal situation becomes "muddier" and Red Hat sells out? Jesus wept.

> Hey, maybe the MPAA; DVD-CCA; DMCA; and WIPO are right, and that
> Linux users do not have the right to watch their legally purchased DVDs on
> their computers. Lets "depreciate" xine.

> Oh, and Evolution looks a lot like Outlook, let's "depreciate" that too.

> Can't Red Hat see, that the only thing they are "depreciating" is their
> userbase.

> I accept that Red Hat are probably only trying to fight Microsoft on their
> own terms ("keep it legit"), but they could at least wait until they are in
> the game before selling out to right-wing idealism.

> Then again, how "legit" have Microsoft ever been? Ask RealNetworks,
> Netscape or the US DOJ.