Installing Mozilla for Linux as a newbie.

Installing Mozilla for Linux as a newbie.

Post by Marcello Barbon » Thu, 19 Dec 2002 23:44:15




> Some points to consider before you go into denial and fire up the
> flame throwers.

I am one of the "week install" people (see point 4), even though gentoo does
not take that long to install, oh well...


I think you've got a point here. Sometimes linux software is not easy to
install as it should be and (assuming you didn't make the whole thing up)
this is one of those cases. This, of course, from the newbie's point of
view because the (even slightly) experienced user, such as yourself, is
able to install software with no major problems.

Quote:> 1. I am not saying installing mozilla/java can't be done, it can,
> because I did it. It works fine after I screwed with it for an hour or
> so.

Consider that in this case, at least for the woes regarding Java, the
problem is that we're in the middle of a transition between major versions
of gcc so some glitches are to be expected. Things will be ok soon enough.

Quote:

> 2. I AM saying that in typical Linux fashion, a simple task has been
> turned into a difficult one. Poor, inaccurate, or lack of
> documentation is typical of Linux. this is just one example.

No, documentation is not lacking. You're assuming (perhaps correctly) that
the newbie will not read it, but this is the newbie's fault and not
linux's. I find that documentation is one of linux's pros.
And pleas don't generalize! One linux prog with poor docs dont make shitty
linux documentation as a whole.

Quote:

> 3. For the apt-get people, how many newbies are going to find Debian
> at Walmart?

There is a nice user friendly apt-based distro available in shops. I forget
the name. (Maybe too much beer?)

Quote:

> 4. Same for the Gentoo, "take a week to install an OS" people.

Gent00 rulez :-)

Ok, sorry. I'm trying to behave as an * here.

Quote:

> 5. For the rpm types, the rpm of Mozilla on SuSE's ftp server works
> about as good as the one included with SuSE meaning it doesn't. I
> simply followed the suggestions of others to get the tarball from
> Mozilla directly.

Can't comment on rpms as gentoo helped me out of that pile of shit. For me,
installing mozilla was as easy as typing "emerge mozilla" and fetching a
cup of coffe. Ok, make it two.

Quote:> 6. For the "It works fine for me under XXXXXX distribution, with
> XXXXXX being any distro other than SuSE" that means nothing.
> Do you expect someone who just spent $79.00 to try Linux to go out and
> buy Mandrake/Redhat/Caldera?
> All it takes is one sour experience with Linux to send them packing
> and back to Windows. Remember Linux is the little guy and has to try
> harder.

I think linux will succeed in it's own time. Just take a look at where linux
newbie usability was 3 years ago, it's impressive. It's just a question of
time, linux will be (and in many cases already is) a *perfect* newbie
friendly system.

Cheers
Marcello

Quote:

> Let the denial begin

Nope, not me. And *surely* not after three Hoegaardens :-)
 
 
 

Installing Mozilla for Linux as a newbie.

Post by Roy Cull » Fri, 20 Dec 2002 00:53:41





>> 4. Same for the Gentoo, "take a week to install an OS" people.

> Gent00 rulez :-)

The ignorance of people like the flatfish regarding gentoo really
pisses me off. Regardless of what he said in the rest of his humongous
post just writing 'Same for the Gentoo, "take a week to install an OS"
people' and all credibility is gone.

First of all you don't need to do the build everything from source
if you don't want to:

<http://www.veryComputer.com/;

'Fast Installation: The Reference Platform

 In past releases, the Gentoo Linux installation process involved
 building at least part of Gentoo Linux directly from source. For
 Gentoo Linux 1.4, we now offer a full binary Gentoo Linux "reference
 platform" that installs in minutes. We have clearly and carefully
 defined our binary reference platform to provide a set of reasonable
 build-time defaults for users who want to get Gentoo Linux up and
 running as quickly as possible. Thanks to the Gentoo Linux reference
 platform, a full installation of Gentoo Linux--including XFree86,
 GNOME, KDE and OpenOffice--can be completed in under an hour.

 Our new reference platform is also a great help for VARs, since it
 allows them to provide a reasonably configured Gentoo Linux system for
 their customers easily and efficiently.'

One hour flattypus. Where did you get your week from? Ah, the dreaded
compile everything from source.

Just so happens I have upgraded my company laptop this very week to
gentoo 1.4rc1. I started the install around noon on Monday. By end of
work on Tuesday I switched from gentoo 1.2 to gentoo 1.4. About a day
and a half. There are still some packages I will install but the
system has all that's required to do my job.

Here's the killer though. I did the 1.4 install while I was running
1.2. It didn't interrupt my work at all bar the time to boot into 1.4
when it was ready. As the kernel version is the same as what I was
running under 1.2 (later gentoo patch level only) I just copied my 1.2
kernel .config to configure the kernel. Similarly for XF86Config,
network, iptables, etc.

The beauty here is that anyone running Linux and has a spare partition
can do the same. The gentoo documentation is excellent. Just download
the 1.4rc1 stage 1 tarball and off you go.

Quote:> Ok, sorry. I'm trying to behave as an * here.

When talking to infants there is no need to apologise. It is a
challenge to express yourself simply enough so that they might
understand though. :-)

 
 
 

Installing Mozilla for Linux as a newbie.

Post by Jim » Fri, 20 Dec 2002 02:42:32



> I have just gone through a little experiment installing Mozilla 1.21
> under SuSE 8.1 right off the Mozilla web page.
> As you will remember there is a problem using the installed version of
> SuSE's Mozilla with java, which really makes me wonder how some of you
> can claim you were able to view the sites that required java with a
> stock install of SuSE and all of it's applications.
> http://sdb.suse.de/en/sdb/html/mozilla.html
> "Starting from SuSE Linux 8.1, gcc-3.x is used to compile Mozilla,
> making Java support impossible. Since Java 2 by IBM and SUN is still
> compiled with gcc-2.x, these Java versions are incompatible with the
> Mozilla interface. Other plug-ins existing in binary form should work
> by means of a patch. "

First place I looked for help. Also why it's only
a SuSE 8.1 problem and not seen elsewhere.

<snip long install procedure>

Go to usr-local-bin.org. Find mozilla-1.2.1 rpm and
download. Remove old mozilla [1] (rpm -e mozilla);
install new mozilla (from download directory -
rpm -ivh <mozilla rpm name>, or click the file in
konqueror). Run SuSEconfig. All your plugins that
SuSE installed  (including flash and java) will
now work - no reinstall or recompile needed. Menu
links will also work.

IIRC, there are some fairly important patches in
1.2.1 also, so the reinstall is definitely a good
idea even if you don't need the java plugin.

Jim

[1] If you use the longer method flatfish described,
you can leave the original mozilla installed. You
need it if you plan on using Galeon, Evolution or
the the Tcl plugin. If you don't need those three
programs, the rpm is easier, but you'll have to
delete them too if they're installed (I don't
believe they install by default)..

 
 
 

Installing Mozilla for Linux as a newbie.

Post by Jim » Fri, 20 Dec 2002 02:47:14




>>Some points to consider before you go into denial and fire up the
>>flame throwers.
> I am one of the "week install" people (see point 4), even though gentoo does
> not take that long to install, oh well...

> I think you've got a point here. Sometimes linux software is not easy to
> install as it should be and (assuming you didn't make the whole thing up)
> this is one of those cases. This, of course, from the newbie's point of
> view because the (even slightly) experienced user, such as yourself, is
> able to install software with no major problems.
>>1. I am not saying installing mozilla/java can't be done, it can,
>>because I did it. It works fine after I screwed with it for an hour or
>>so.
> Consider that in this case, at least for the woes regarding Java, the
> problem is that we're in the middle of a transition between major versions
> of gcc so some glitches are to be expected. Things will be ok soon enough.
>>2. I AM saying that in typical Linux fashion, a simple task has been
>>turned into a difficult one. Poor, inaccurate, or lack of
>>documentation is typical of Linux. this is just one example.
> No, documentation is not lacking. You're assuming (perhaps correctly) that
> the newbie will not read it, but this is the newbie's fault and not
> linux's. I find that documentation is one of linux's pros.
> And pleas don't generalize! One linux prog with poor docs dont make shitty
> linux documentation as a whole.

A call to SuSE support, a visit to the SuSE web site, or
a google search would all identify the problem. The fix
is a little more difficult (the first hit on google
turned up the solution, assuming you know how to install
an RPM).

Quote:>>3. For the apt-get people, how many newbies are going to find Debian
>>at Walmart?

I have no idea, but they won't find SuSE at Walmart,
and this is a SuSE only, SuSE 8.1 only problem.

Quote:> There is a nice user friendly apt-based distro available in shops. I forget
> the name. (Maybe too much beer?)
>>4. Same for the Gentoo, "take a week to install an OS" people.
> Gent00 rulez :-)
> Ok, sorry. I'm trying to behave as an * here.
>>5. For the rpm types, the rpm of Mozilla on SuSE's ftp server works
>>about as good as the one included with SuSE meaning it doesn't. I
>>simply followed the suggestions of others to get the tarball from
>>Mozilla directly.

You can find a working rpm for SuSE at usr-local-bin.org

Jim

 
 
 

Installing Mozilla for Linux as a newbie.

Post by cfswester » Fri, 20 Dec 2002 09:03:12


flatf...@linuxmail.org wrote:
> I have just gone through a little experiment installing Mozilla 1.21
> under SuSE 8.1 right off the Mozilla web page.

> As you will remember there is a problem using the installed version of
> SuSE's Mozilla with java, which really makes me wonder how some of you
> can claim you were able to view the sites that required java with a
> stock install of SuSE and all of it's applications.

> http://sdb.suse.de/en/sdb/html/mozilla.html

> "Starting from SuSE Linux 8.1, gcc-3.x is used to compile Mozilla,
> making Java support impossible. Since Java 2 by IBM and SUN is still
> compiled with gcc-2.x, these Java versions are incompatible with the
> Mozilla interface. Other plug-ins existing in binary form should work
> by means of a patch. "

> But I digress here, so let's get on with the install:

> A.  Go to mozilla.org on left side select Mozilla 1.21 Linux (13.5mb)
> and download the file.

> B.  Filename is mozilla-i686-pc-linux-gnu-1.2.1-sea.tar.gz

> C.  Go to release notes on the Mozilla site:

> http://www.mozilla.org/releases/mozilla1.2.1/#install

> First problem:

> Multi-user installs:
>  To install Mozilla for multiple users on Unix, install
> as normal, then create the following script in your Mozilla directory,
> make it executable (chmod u+x <scriptname>), and run it as root. Do
> not run this program as su[do] root.  (Bug 52653)

> #!/bin/sh
> dist_bin=`dirname $0`
> MOZILLA_FIVE_HOME=$dist_bin
> LD_LIBRARY_PATH=$dist_bin
> export MOZILLA_FIVE_HOME LD_LIBRARY_PATH
> $dist_bin/regxpcom
> $dist_bin/regchrome
> touch $dist_bin/chrome/user-skins.rdf
> $dist_bin/chrome/user-locales.rdf

> " Boy that sounds like a lot of fun"

> You should then be able to run that installation of Mozilla as any
> user who has permissions to access it.

> When you install language packs and other .xpi files, downloading
> pauses until you click the browser's Stop button.

> If you receive the message 'The program must close to allow a previous
> installation to complete' when launching, it means that file cleanup
> after an additional installation has not completed.

> Suggested workarounds:

>    1. In most cases, waiting a few additional seconds after the
> program exits will allow the cleanup process to complete and allow you
> to launch.
>    2. Occasionally the installation process is waiting for another
> program to release a file the cleanup process needs. You may need to
> shut down other programs or reboot the computer to allow the
> installation process to complete.

> ***Ok so to make things simple, let's assume a single user install***

> D.  Next problem:

> The instructions are incorrect.

> To install Mozilla by downloading the Mozilla installer, follow these
> steps:

>    1. Create a directory named mozilla1.2.1 (mkdir mozilla1.2.1 ) and
> change to that directory (cd mozilla1.2.1 ).

>    2. Click the link to download the installer file (called
> Mozilla-i686-pc-linux-gnu-installer.tar.gz).

>    3. Change to the Mozilla directory (cd mozilla1.2.1 ) and
> decompress the archive with the following command:
>  gunzip -dc moz*.tar.gz | tar -xvf -
>  (This places the installer in a subdirectory of Mozilla named
> Mozilla-installer.)

>    4. Change to the Mozilla-installer directory (cd Mozilla-installer)
> and run the installer with the ./Mozilla-installer command.

>    5. Follow the instructions in the install wizard for installing
> Mozilla
> .

>       Note: If you have a slower machine, be aware that the
> installation may take some time. In this case, the installation
> progress may appear to hang indefinitely, even though the installation
> is still in process.

> 6. To start Mozilla , change to the directory where you installed it
> and run the ./Mozilla command.

>        To install Mozilla by downloading the .tar.gz archive file:

>          1. Create a directory named " mozilla1.2.1 " (mkdir
> mozilla1.2.1 ) and change to that directory (cd mozilla1.2.1 ).
>    2. Click the link to download the non-installer mozilla*.tar.gz
> file into the mozilla1.2.1 directory.
>    3. Change to the mozilla directory (cd mozilla1.2.1 ) and
> decompress the file with the following command:
>       gunzip -dc moz*.tar.gz | tar -xvf - (This creates a "mozilla"
> subdirectory under your mozilla1.2.1 directory.)
>    4. Change to the mozilla directory (cd mozilla).
>    5. Run Mozilla with the ./mozilla run script.

> *******Notice the file name in step #2 which was taken right off the
> Mozilla homepage************

> http://www.mozilla.org/ on the right side of the page.

> Do YOU see that file name referred to in the instructions for either
> the installer version or the tar.gz version?

> Bare with me a little because I know they are using a wildcard to
> extract the tarball so the file name doesn't matter (ie:moz*).

> That however is NOT the problem.

> The problem is, when you follow the directions and unpack the archive,
> you will NOT end up with a /mozilla directory where you can simply
> execute ./mozilla and be off and running.

>    ****This is what it says to do**

> 3. Change to the mozilla directory (cd mozilla1.2.1 ) and decompress
> the file with the following command:
>       gunzip -dc moz*.tar.gz | tar -xvf - (This creates a "mozilla"
> subdirectory under your mozilla1.2.1 directory.)
>    4. Change to the mozilla directory (cd mozilla).
>    5. Run Mozilla with the ./mozilla run script.

> ********There is no such file or directory created.************

> BUT, there is a mozilla-installer file that was mentioned in the first
> method of install which is shown up above at the start of my step #4.

> IOW they have their instructions mangled with parts of each included
> in the other but no clear cut set that will work if you follow EXACTLY
> what they say word for word.

> So let's assume the user has managed to install mozilla by figuring
> this out, which is going to take some time for a newbie.

> Let's move on to installing java like the Mozilla website says we
> should
> do.

> F.  The problems continue.

>    Going to the link to the Sun Java site downloads java and it
> installs just fine.

> BTW notice what Mozilla has to say about Windows java installs

> **************************************************************************
> Java

> Windows and Linux: To run Java applets, you must install the Java Run
> Time
> Environment (JRE) plug-in.

> Windows: When using installer builds, everything should Just Work
> without
> any help.
> *******************************************************************************
> (And it does BTW)   <----My words

> Ok so now that we have Java installed let's continue on following the
> Mozilla instructions, to the letter to get it to work.

> Shall we?

> Linux With tar.gz builds on Linux, after the JRE has installed, put a
> symlink to java2/plugin/i386/ns610/libjava.oji.so  in your
> mozilla1.2.1 plugins/ directory.

> All nice and good, except it doesn't work and creating the symlink
> fails with a can't find path message.

> Here is why:

> flatfish@linux:~> ls
> Desktop    mozilla       plugin131_02.trace
> Documents  mozilla1.2.1  public_html
> flatfish@linux:~> cd mozilla
> flatfish@linux:~/mozilla> ls
> chrome             libnspr4.so     mozilla-bin
> components         libnss3.so      mozilla-xremote-client
> defaults           libnssckbi.so   plugins
> icons              libplc4.so      regExport
> install.log        libplds4.so     regchrome
> libgkgfx.so        libprldap50.so  registry
> libgtkembedmoz.so  libsmime3.so    regxpcom
> libgtksuperwin.so  libsoftokn3.so  res
> libgtkxtbin.so     libssl3.so      run-mozilla.sh
> libjsj.so          libxlibrgb.so   searchplugins
> libldap50.so       libxpcom.so     xpicleanup
> libmozjs.so        libxpistub.so
> libmozz.so         mozilla
> flatfish@linux:~/mozilla> cd plugins
> flatfish@linux:~/mozilla/plugins> ls
> java2  libjavaplugin_oji.so  libnullplugin.so
> flatfish@linux:~/mozilla/plugins> cd java2
> flatfish@linux:~/mozilla/plugins/java2> ls
> CHANGES    ControlPanel.html  README        bin  man
> COPYRIGHT  LICENSE            Welcome.html  lib  plugin
> flatfish@linux:~/mozilla/plugins/java2> cd plugin
> flatfish@linux:~/mozilla/plugins/java2/plugin> ls
> i386
> flatfish@linux:~/mozilla/plugins/java2/plugin> cd i386
> flatfish@linux:~/mozilla/plugins/java2/plugin/i386> ls
> ns4  ns600
> flatfish@linux:~/mozilla/plugins/java2/plugin/i386> cd ns610 <----here
> bash: cd: ns610: No such file or directory
> flatfish@linux:~/mozilla/plugins/java2/plugin/i386>

> See that ns610?

> Gee, where is it?

> I have an ns600, but no ns610.

> The comedy continues until the user gives up or finds a geek friend to
> do it for her.

> ***********************How about Mozilla for Windows*****************

> Installing on Windows:

> To install Mozilla by downloading the Mozilla installer, follow these
> steps:

>    1. Click the Mozilla-win32-installer.exe link to download the file
> to your machine.
>    2. Navigate to where you downloaded the file and double click the
> Mozilla program icon on your machine to begin the Setup program.
>    3. Follow the on-screen instructions in the setup program. The
> program starts automatically the first time.

> **********************Java for Windows*****************************

> Windows: When using installer builds, everything should Just Work
> without any help.

> The only problem occurs if you already have java on the system and
> then all you have to do is copy one file  (NPOJI610.dll) to another
> directory.

> I don't even want to go into what happens under Linux when you have
> more than one version of java on the system.

> symlinks, environment variables, permissions problems etc.

> I think I have proven that doing average things like installing a

...

read more »

 
 
 

Installing Mozilla for Linux as a newbie.

Post by kosh » Fri, 20 Dec 2002 12:57:57



> 3. For the apt-get people, how many newbies are going to find Debian
> at Walmart?

Well now that you mention it Lindows IS Debian and can be found at Walmart.
:) Install Mozilla 1.2.1 is damn simple in debian. apt-get install mozilla,
or run kpackage and click on mozilla to install it, or type in mozilla and
tell it to install that, or use the lindows web package interface click on
mozilla and have it install it. Any way you proceed it installs very
easily. At most you will have to give it the root password and then it will
install mozilla and any software that mozilla needs to run automatically.

Overall I have shown debian to many windows people and once they see how
easy it is to install stuff and to update their system it wins them over.
They can just run kpackage and click what they want, update their system
etc all from a nice gui and there is no special installer to run. With
windows you need to tell programs where to go or at least accept their
choices with debian you just tell the program to install and there are no
worries about not having x version of some library and the items appear on
your menus automatically. I have had problems with windows programs needing
certain libraries. Some programs wanted to have IE 6.0 installed for some
MSXML library or apps that want some specific vb libraries installed for
them to run.

Quote:> flatfish

 
 
 

Installing Mozilla for Linux as a newbie.

Post by GreyClou » Fri, 20 Dec 2002 21:03:54



> You have got to be kidding. How is anyone supposed to know how to do that ?
> Intuition ? Education ?

You're getting real warm now.  Try the last option, it works
every time.
 
 
 

Installing Mozilla for Linux as a newbie.

Post by Craig Kelle » Fri, 20 Dec 2002 22:16:40



> I have just gone through a little experiment installing Mozilla 1.21
> under SuSE 8.1 right off the Mozilla web page.

Here's how I do it:

su -
tar xzvf mozilla-i686-pc-linux-gnu-1.2.1-sea.tar.gz
cd mozilla-installer
./mozilla-installer
exit

Done.

HTH
--

Turn In Your Neighbor Today!  http://www.bsa.org/usa/report/report.php

 
 
 

Installing Mozilla for Linux as a newbie.

Post by Richard Revi » Fri, 20 Dec 2002 23:23:21


Craig Kelley used a team of monkeys to generate this reply:

Quote:> su -
> tar xzvf mozilla-i686-pc-linux-gnu-1.2.1-sea.tar.gz
> cd mozilla-installer
> ./mozilla-installer
> exit

> Done.

Difficult isn't it? And, my god, installing the plugins requires you to know
how to untar files! You even have to kpnow how to copy* .so files! How
unreasonable is that!

*Although the new flash installer does it for you. *y useable computers,
what is the world comming to?

--
People carriers are for the clueless about contraception.
9:22pm  up  4:12,  3 users,  load average: 0.40, 0.35, 0.24
RX bytes:30230879 (28.8 Mb)  TX bytes:6936762 (6.6 Mb)
E-mail address munged to prevent spam.

 
 
 

Installing Mozilla for Linux as a newbie.

Post by Roy Cull » Sat, 21 Dec 2002 02:52:30









>>>> 4. Same for the Gentoo, "take a week to install an OS" people.

>>> Gent00 rulez :-)

>>The ignorance of people like the flatfish regarding gentoo really
>>pisses me off. Regardless of what he said in the rest of his humongous
>>post just writing 'Same for the Gentoo, "take a week to install an OS"
>>people' and all credibility is gone.

> Gentoo is for geeks because only a geek would take a week to install
> an operating system.

I was complaining about you saying it takes a week to install Gentoo.
Now if you are going to install every package they have (not actually
possible because of conflicts) it may take a week. But I would guess
that most Gentoo users install a lot less than that. I know I do.

Quote:> This is not a bad thing, but I was just heading off the inevibtable
> "you should have used Gentoo" comments.

> My post about installing Mozilla was from the point of view of an
> average click and point ex-Windows user.

> Gentoo is the last system you want to hand a new user.

To install by themselves perhaps. There is a young network guy in our
group at work. He kept hearing us talk about Gentoo that he wanted to
try it. We did suggest he try a simpler distro first but he was quite
adamant. So I pointed him to Gentoo's web site and told him to read
the install and USE variable HOWTO's carefully. I gave him my Gentoo
1.2 CD and off he went. He was installing it on a laptop.

There followed endless questions, he really wanted to know what it was
he was doing and when he got stuck we helped him. When he finally had
a working system he decided to do it all again. I asked him why and
his answer was so simple. He said that during the first install he was
just following the install doc and when stuck he asked us. During that
process though he was learning Linux. He now felt he understood most
of what he had done during the initial install.

To cut a long story short the guy loves Gentoo. He has 2 laptops and
both now run Gentoo. He also has a company desktop running windows but
he hardly uses it. He's still learning. He still asks questions. But
he is really enjoying using Gentoo.

Now this isn't your average user. He's in his early 20's and works
in an environment where even our boss encourages us to use Linux.

- Show quoted text -

Quote:>>First of all you don't need to do the build everything from source
>>if you don't want to:

>><http://www.veryComputer.com/;

>>'Fast Installation: The Reference Platform

>> In past releases, the Gentoo Linux installation process involved
>> building at least part of Gentoo Linux directly from source. For
>> Gentoo Linux 1.4, we now offer a full binary Gentoo Linux "reference
>> platform" that installs in minutes. We have clearly and carefully
>> defined our binary reference platform to provide a set of reasonable
>> build-time defaults for users who want to get Gentoo Linux up and
>> running as quickly as possible. Thanks to the Gentoo Linux reference
>> platform, a full installation of Gentoo Linux--including XFree86,
>> GNOME, KDE and OpenOffice--can be completed in under an hour.

>> Our new reference platform is also a great help for VARs, since it
>> allows them to provide a reasonably configured Gentoo Linux system for
>> their customers easily and efficiently.'

>>One hour flattypus. Where did you get your week from? Ah, the dreaded
>>compile everything from source.

> Exactly.

> What's the purpose of Gentoo if not optimization?

> If you want canned packages you might as well go with one of the off
> the shelf distributions.

Have you tried Gentoo? It doesn't sound like it. Firstly, it takes
a single command to rebuild every package optimised for your system.
While it is doing this your system is still available for whatever
you use it for. So you can do a quick install and then optimise it
later.

Secondly, the Gentoo package management system is by far the best I
have ever seen for any OS.

Thirdly, Gentoo's init system is second to none.

- Show quoted text -

Quote:>>Just so happens I have upgraded my company laptop this very week to
>>gentoo 1.4rc1. I started the install around noon on Monday. By end of
>>work on Tuesday I switched from gentoo 1.2 to gentoo 1.4. About a day
>>and a half. There are still some packages I will install but the
>>system has all that's required to do my job.

>>Here's the killer though. I did the 1.4 install while I was running
>>1.2. It didn't interrupt my work at all bar the time to boot into 1.4
>>when it was ready. As the kernel version is the same as what I was
>>running under 1.2 (later gentoo patch level only) I just copied my 1.2
>>kernel .config to configure the kernel. Similarly for XF86Config,
>>network, iptables, etc.

>>The beauty here is that anyone running Linux and has a spare partition
>>can do the same. The gentoo documentation is excellent. Just download
>>the 1.4rc1 stage 1 tarball and off you go.

> So?

> Hand it to a newbie and see what happens.

My post was merely pointing out that you saying it took a week to
install Gentoo was wrong. I've posted before that Gentoo isn't for
anyone new to Linux (other than the guy I work with but he is an
exception).

It is an excellent choice for any OEM that wants to offer Linux
though. I'm sure the guys at gentoo.org would be more than willing to
assist an OEM. For a reasonable fee of course. :-)

Quote:> You are out of touch with reality Roy, completely out of touch.

Quite possibly but in this instance you misunderstood what I was
complaining about. No doubt I didn't make it clear enough.

Quote:>>> Ok, sorry. I'm trying to behave as an * here.

>>When talking to infants there is no need to apologise. It is a
>>challenge to express yourself simply enough so that they might
>>understand though. :-)

> Translation, you just can't handle the fact that I said Gentoo is for
> geeks and it takes a week to install, which if you compile everything
> from source it will.

Not at all. You didn't understand the meaning of my post. Whether it
was your reading comprehension that failed or my not making my point
clearly is open to debate.

Quote:> Sorry to burst your bubble Roy.

Not much chance of that flatfish. :-)
 
 
 

Installing Mozilla for Linux as a newbie.

Post by Roy Cull » Sat, 21 Dec 2002 03:01:25





>> You have got to be kidding. How is anyone supposed to know how to do that ?
>> Intuition ? Education ?

> You're getting real warm now.  Try the last option, it works
> every time.

Sums up the damage MS have done. The llast thing they want is for
PeeCee users to think and learn. Just like most governments and
religious leaders.
 
 
 

Installing Mozilla for Linux as a newbie.

Post by GreyClou » Sat, 21 Dec 2002 07:55:11






> >> You have got to be kidding. How is anyone supposed to know how to do that ?
> >> Intuition ? Education ?

> > You're getting real warm now.  Try the last option, it works
> > every time.

> Sums up the damage MS have done. The llast thing they want is for
> PeeCee users to think and learn. Just like most governments and
> religious leaders.

I guess Niclaus Wirth was right... Basic causes brain damage
and M$ was there first with their version of a brain dead
basic.
 
 
 

Installing Mozilla for Linux as a newbie.

Post by The Ghost In The Machin » Mon, 23 Dec 2002 00:53:05


In comp.os.linux.advocacy, GreyCloud

 wrote
on Thu, 19 Dec 2002 21:55:11 -0800





>> >> You have got to be kidding. How is anyone supposed to know
>> >> how to do that ? Intuition ? Education ?

>> > You're getting real warm now.  Try the last option, it works
>> > every time.

>> Sums up the damage MS have done. The llast thing they want is for
>> PeeCee users to think and learn. Just like most governments and
>> religious leaders.

> I guess Niclaus Wirth was right... Basic causes brain damage
> and M$ was there first with their version of a brain dead
> basic.

If MS wrote the Apple /// floating point Basic, I'd have to
agree with you; the Apple ][ Basic was reasonably smart,
doing syntax checks *before* the line was stored.  However,
Apple /// waited until the program was actually run.  (I
guess the idea might be that the user might want to edit
that line after it's read in from tape, but someone could
have at least thought of a CHECK primitive of some sort
in that case, to check each and every line in memory.)

IBM's Basic had the same flaw, and AFAIK every mainstream
Basic since.  (I'd have to look at Chipmunk, though, and
maybe Amiga's ABasic might have been smarter.)

--

It's still legal to go .sigless.

 
 
 

1. Installing Mozilla for Linux as a newbie.

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