Very Computer

IceWM is my Windows Manager of choice.  I mean, I really like it!  It's
very fast, loads in seconds, responsive, cool looking, almost zero
footprint and non-instrusive.   I'll admit that it is a bit spartian
(though not so much so as BlackBox), but I really don't want more than
that personally.

Then again, I wouldn't consider myself an average user either.  KDE3 was
installed when I upgraded to 7.3, and I've briefly played with it a couple
of times, but I haven't really knuckled down to use it on a regular basis.

Well, I figured I had to be fair.  Chances are this is the default Desktop
that most new users are going to be using when they first load Linux, so
I'd better get familiar with it.

Well, I've been using it all day and it's *very* nice.  Keep in mind that
I'm kinda spoiled by ice, so I may not be totally objective here.  It is
definitely faster than previous versions.  And the eye-candy is enough to
give you ocular cavities!  Wow!

The killer apps are the myriad configuration helper apps and wizards that
it has. These are going to be what defines the system to a newbie, and may
be the deciding factor in whether they say Linux "sux" or "rox".

Now, I don't exactly have a POS system with CEL1.2GHZ /512MB-PC100/66GB,
so I don't know if the response and performance that I'm experiencing is
indicative of all systems, but then again I do know that Linux uses system
resources much more efficiently than that other OS, so I'm expecting that
even on a system with half these specs KDE3 would perform about the same
which is spectacular.

It is indeed a hog though, especially compared to ice. But it's very nice.
 It has a very polished smooth look and solid feel to it, like marble.  I
don't know if that would the correct way to convey it, but hopefully you
get my meaning.

KOffice is nicely put together and well integrated.  It has come aways
since I last played with it.  The uniformity that some people seem to put
an unnecessary priority on is definitely there.  I was able to import
semi-complex MS Word files with graphics, tables, columns and formatted
text just fine with hardly any variation form the original except for
choice of fonts of course.  KSpread didn't fair as well with the formulaic
expressions in a lengthy budget spreadsheet that I imported, though it did
get most of the formatting correct.  Neither can export files to MSOffice
formats though (not necessarily a bad thing IMHO)

I didn't play with the  other programs in the suite though othe rthan just
loading them and giving them a quick run through, so I can't give much
more than say they are all very well laid out and put together.
Personally, I still prefer Star/Open Office, but that's not to say that
KOffice is not an excellent suite.

Well, any reservations that I heretofore may have felt about advocating
Linux to any and everyone are now out the Window(s)!  KDE3 has defintely
without a doubt made Linux ready for the average user's desktop!

Spread the word (KWord that is ;-)

--
rapskat  -  8:10pm  up 3 days, 23:09,  6 users,  load average: 8.09, 8.10, 8.05
drop the hot to mail me

The only dumb question is the one that wasn't asked. -- Anonymous

rapskat typed with the aid of 19999 monkeys:

Quote:> Well, I figured I had to be fair.  Chances are this is the default Desktop
> that most new users are going to be using when they first load Linux, so
> I'd better get familiar with it.

Although with RH 7.3 the default ifs Gnome.

Quote:> Well, I've been using it all day and it's *very* nice.  Keep in mind that
> I'm kinda spoiled by ice, so I may not be totally objective here.  It is
> definitely faster than previous versions.  And the eye-candy is enough to
> give you ocular cavities!  Wow!

You bet! It's absolutly stunning, and makes Windows look very outdated. This
is from about 20 minutes ago would you believe it.

<Me> http://dragon.dingojunction.com/img/scr/scrshot.png
<NotMe> omg, that is beautiful
<Me> it was taken at 1280x1024
* NotMe knows nothing abt that, but sho-nuff is purty!!!

And this from a 100% Microso~1 user :o)

Quote:> Now, I don't exactly have a POS system with CEL1.2GHZ /512MB-PC100/66GB,
> so I don't know if the response and performance that I'm experiencing is
> indicative of all systems, but then again I do know that Linux uses system
> resources much more efficiently than that other OS, so I'm expecting that
> even on a system with half these specs KDE3 would perform about the same
> which is spectacular.

It runs very responsivly on my K7-700 with 256mb of ram (with 99% or more
resources free and all my other apps loaded). I can't wait to get it onto
'the beast'.

Quote:> It is indeed a hog though, especially compared to ice. But it's very nice.
>  It has a very polished smooth look and solid feel to it, like marble.  I
> don't know if that would the correct way to convey it, but hopefully you
> get my meaning.

I prefer the solid feeling to the more clean effect of Ice. It's all about
choice and finding what is right for you :o)

Quote:> KOffice is nicely put together and well integrated.  It has come aways
> since I last played with it.  The uniformity that some people seem to put
> an unnecessary priority on is definitely there.  I was able to import
> semi-complex MS Word files with graphics, tables, columns and formatted
> text just fine with hardly any variation form the original except for
> choice of fonts of course.  KSpread didn't fair as well with the formulaic
> expressions in a lengthy budget spreadsheet that I imported, though it did
> get most of the formatting correct.  Neither can export files to MSOffice
> formats though (not necessarily a bad thing IMHO)

I like KOffice because it loads very fast, is easy to use, has a really good
equasion editor, flowcharting software (better then MS Visio) and some
other toys.

I do use Open Office to import/export MS files, but that is all. The biggest
benefit of KOffice is the advantage of having an office suite already
included in the distro which is well featured, but I suspect in future
distros this will change now that open office is free.

Quote:> I didn't play with the  other programs in the suite though othe rthan just
> loading them and giving them a quick run through, so I can't give much
> more than say they are all very well laid out and put together.
> Personally, I still prefer Star/Open Office, but that's not to say that
> KOffice is not an excellent suite.

It has some wonderful features, which can compliment open office. I will
choose to run both for a while though.

Quote:> Well, any reservations that I heretofore may have felt about advocating
> Linux to any and everyone are now out the Window(s)!  KDE3 has defintely
> without a doubt made Linux ready for the average user's desktop!

It makes it very easy to put a new user in front of a Linux machine that is
for sure - fire up KPatience (which has about 20 games in it) and they are
lost forever.

Quote:> Spread the word (KWord that is ;-)

*Groan*

--
 You are watching MTV, the cool brainwashing 12 year old and younger station
 that hides behind a slick image. We are so cool that we decide whats cool.
  1:54am  up 13 days, 13:02,  2 users,  load average: 0.11, 0.14, 0.10
 The current MP3 is Killer Spam's Comedy Stuff - BILL CLINTONS GOT THE FARTS
 E-mail address munged to prevent spam.

I was an XFCe man, but due to the visible speed-up of Win2k under ice, I
can now say (with apologies to Robert Frost):

Icewm is Nicewm and will Sufficewm

--
Ken
Linux, the more you learn, the more you love

KDE3 does not make Linux ready for the desktop. There is no quality software
you moron.

Like your beloved PhotoShop?

Peter
--
Microsoft's Guide To System Design:
        It could be worse, but it'll take time.

Or The High quality CD-R software written by Adaptec that trashes your
system because it installs a CD driver that's incompatible with DVD drives
(makes the PC Bluescreen when trying to read data DVD's). Windows - the
system so shite that installing the wrong application can permanently kill
it.

All Linux CD-R software (including GCombust, Gnome-toaster and X-CD Roast)
is better than this crap.

Yeah.  I tried gcombust.  It worked really well for me, even on FreeBSD.

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Guffaw!!  You wouldn't know because you don't run linux.
Now, be a good little boy and go play with your * XP.

In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Mr Grant

 wrote
on Sat, 08 Jun 2002 10:47:04 GMT

Quote:> KDE3 does not make Linux ready for the desktop.
> There is no quality software

I have to agree, to a point.  Any OS that doesn't run the apps
that the user desires (cf flatfish and his rather comprehensive
audio editing studio) will not survive long as far as that user
is concerned.  Look at BeOS, for example; no apps, dead OS.
The reason for no apps is probably fairly complicated, but
apparently it boils down to lack of interest.

And KDE3 isn't an app, it's a desktop.

That said:  Linux has quite a bit of inertia going for it, even
if one claims that the stuff is "old and outdated" (which it
isn't anyway); old Unix software has been available for decades.

And there's a *lot* of interest in Linux, if only because it's
cheap. :-)  But I am also of the school of Those That Were First
Exposed To Unix In School, and I'm far from alone; Linux evokes
those memories to a point.  (The newer graduates will probably
be exposed to Windows, first; this is not a bad thing per se,
but I am of the opinion that Unix was (and is) more flexible for
those that can use it, and am wondering how we can teach the
younger generation that there's a place for Unix, and Unix-like,
operating systems.)

Should a business switch from their webserver to IIS?
That depends.  Many businesses do stake their livelihood on
ASP pages and the capabilities of Microsoft products.  The
conversion from ASP to, say, JSP, has to be justified on
a TTROI [*] basis, just like pretty much anything else.

Should a business switch from their webserver to Apache?
That also depends.  Apache may be free to install, but it's
not free to convert.

This sort of logic can apply pretty much anywhere.  I've not
seen any reliable evidence that an IIS/Win2k => Apache/Unix
conversion results in cheaper operating costs, or what the
TTROI is.

Quote:> you moron.

Now now, no need to get personal. :-)

[*] Time To Return On Investment.  For example, if it were to cost
    $30K to convert and the new business resulting from the conversion
    is $1K/month, the TTROI is about 2 1/2 years.  Of course this
    makes things sound very cut and dried -- which they're not;
    nobody really cares what webserver a business uses, as long
    as it can talk to the person's browser.

--

EAC code #191       120d:21h:08m actually running Linux.
                    Does this message really exist?  Where?