HTML Help files (an updated set of man pages)

HTML Help files (an updated set of man pages)

Post by Matthias Wark » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00



It was the Sat, 3 Jun 2000 13:13:26 +0100...

Quote:

> Having read many articles on this and other news groups/sources, it has
> been made aparrent that there is a need for a good help system for the
> many GUI's on Linux systems today.  What I am thinking about is developing
> an HTML help system, with links to related topics, a shed load of examples
> of commands in use, and other refinements that naturally come with an html
> format.

> What do you think?

Looks like you're planning to reinvent systems such as
- KDE help
- GNOME help
- susehilf
- dwww (Debian help)
etc. etc.

which all work by integrating the various documentation resources on a
Linux machine in a "seamless" HTML help system.

mawa
--
THINGS THE WORLD NEEDS MORE OF #6:

Long hair.

 
 
 

HTML Help files (an updated set of man pages)

Post by Paul Volle » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00


Matthias Warkus, on Sat, 3 Jun 2000, wrote an email like this:

<taken my bit out>
|
|Looks like you're planning to reinvent systems such as
|- KDE help
|- GNOME help
|- susehilf
|- dwww (Debian help)
|etc. etc.
|
|which all work by integrating the various documentation resources on a
|Linux machine in a "seamless" HTML help system.

No, not really.  I have no experience with K help system, Debian or Suse's
help systems, and Gnomes is all about how to use Gnome.  For instance, I
cannot just go to the help system and query it as to what "biff" does - I
have to use the command line man function.

What I wanted to achive was an HTML based equivalent of the man
pages. i.e. totally comprehensive, but with examples and easier
formatting.  This will also allow for people to link man pages where
relevant and make the whole help experience easier.

It is by no means a trivial task, but I was attempting to gauge the
reception of such a system.

Thank you for the input, though.

P.

===
Paul Voller

it makes no difference
http://www.themullet.org.uk/paul
===

 
 
 

HTML Help files (an updated set of man pages)

Post by Gary Halloc » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00



> No, not really.  I have no experience with K help system, Debian or Suse's
> help systems, and Gnomes is all about how to use Gnome.  For instance, I
> cannot just go to the help system and query it as to what "biff" does - I
> have to use the command line man function.

> What I wanted to achive was an HTML based equivalent of the man
> pages. i.e. totally comprehensive, but with examples and easier
> formatting.  This will also allow for people to link man pages where
> relevant and make the whole help experience easier.

> It is by no means a trivial task, but I was attempting to gauge the
> reception of such a system.

> Thank you for the input, though.

> P.

> ===
> Paul Voller

> it makes no difference
> http://www.themullet.org.uk/paul
> ===

Check out

http://www.unix-systems.org/single_unix_specification_v2/

You could use this as a base and add Linux specific documentation.

Gary

 
 
 

HTML Help files (an updated set of man pages)

Post by Christopher Brow » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00


Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw a time when Paul Voller would say:

Quote:>Matthias Warkus, on Sat, 3 Jun 2000, wrote an email like this:

><taken my bit out>
>|
>|Looks like you're planning to reinvent systems such as
>|- KDE help
>|- GNOME help
>|- susehilf
>|- dwww (Debian help)
>|etc. etc.
>|
>|which all work by integrating the various documentation resources on a
>|Linux machine in a "seamless" HTML help system.

>No, not really.  I have no experience with K help system, Debian or Suse's
>help systems, and Gnomes is all about how to use Gnome.  For instance, I
>cannot just go to the help system and query it as to what "biff" does - I
>have to use the command line man function.

>What I wanted to achive was an HTML based equivalent of the man
>pages. i.e. totally comprehensive, but with examples and easier
>formatting.  This will also allow for people to link man pages where
>relevant and make the whole help experience easier.

>It is by no means a trivial task, but I was attempting to gauge the
>reception of such a system.

What is probably _really_ required is to transform the man pages
and texinfo and HTML into a common Lingua Franca, DocBook, and then
integrate _THAT_ as the comprehensive common documentation source.

There has been handwaving about the idea now and again; it really
hasn't gone anywhere yet.
--

"Optimization hinders evolution."  -- Alan Perlis

 
 
 

HTML Help files (an updated set of man pages)

Post by Matthias Wark » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00


It was the Sat, 3 Jun 2000 16:06:16 +0100...

Quote:> Matthias Warkus, on Sat, 3 Jun 2000, wrote an email like this:

> <taken my bit out>
> |
> |Looks like you're planning to reinvent systems such as
> |- KDE help
> |- GNOME help
> |- susehilf
> |- dwww (Debian help)
> |etc. etc.
> |
> |which all work by integrating the various documentation resources on a
> |Linux machine in a "seamless" HTML help system.

> No, not really.  I have no experience with K help system, Debian or Suse's
> help systems, and Gnomes is all about how to use Gnome.  For instance, I
> cannot just go to the help system and query it as to what "biff" does - I
> have to use the command line man function.

Apparently you're uninformed, because you don't have to.

Start the GNOME help browser.
Click on "Man Pages" in the index page.
Click on "User Commands".
Scroll down a bit. Every command with a man page is listed here.
Click on "biff".

A nicely formatted HTML version of the biff(1) man page appears.

mawa
--
You've been Berkeley'ed!

 
 
 

HTML Help files (an updated set of man pages)

Post by Arthu » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00



> > No, not really.  I have no experience with K help system, Debian or Suse's
> > help systems, and Gnomes is all about how to use Gnome.

Uh, no - that's incorrect

Quote:> >  For instance, I
> > cannot just go to the help system and query it as to what "biff" does - I
> > have to use the command line man function.

Uh, no - that's incorrect. The Gnome help browser allows you to access
all of the man pages and info pages as well as Gnome help. 'biff' is
there if you're really interested, as is anything else with a man page.

The KDE help system works exactly the same way - has the man pages,
info pages, KDE help. 'biff' is there too.

tkman is a third choice.

Quote:> > What I wanted to achive was an HTML based equivalent of the man
> > pages. i.e. totally comprehensive, but with examples and easier
> > formatting.

Some man pages are excellent and have tons of examples (the set
of pages on procmail for instance). Some could be better.

Quote:> >  This will also allow for people to link man pages

KDE and Gnome help already do hyperlinking between man pages
('biff', for example hyperlinks to mail, csh, sh, and comsat).
If you want even more intense hyperlinking and search
capabilities, look at tkman - if you have 'glimpse' installed,
you can link to virtually any text file on your computer, and
it also provides a GUI for 'apropos', as well as a GUI interface
to all of the man pages with hyperlinks.

[snip]

In addition, there is a lot more documentation available for
specific programs. KDevelop has an excellent documentation
system built-in. Most programs have doc entries in well known
locations like the /usr/doc hierarchy or in their own
directories. The docs for things like Qt, gtk, Python,
etc. are excellent, for example (all hyperlinked html, too)

In addition my distribution (SuSE) has it's own html help
system, as well as a number of complete *books* on line,
plus all of the RFC's and LDP stuff like HOW-TO's.
Red Hat Power Tools used to include a searchable database
of all kinds of documentation, including archives of
comp.os.linux.setup and other resources.

Then you can look at what's available online through the
web or Usenet ...

Arthur

 
 
 

HTML Help files (an updated set of man pages)

Post by Cihl » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00


Well, you certainly can't have too much documentation!

The previous posts should be of sufficient help. Maybe
http://www.linuxdoc.org has some information for you about writing
docs. Be sure you know your English well enough!

PS. I've been thinking about translating some howto's into Dutch.
Maybe that would help some of the newbies from my country.

 
 
 

HTML Help files (an updated set of man pages)

Post by Pete Goodw » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00




Quote:>Apparently you're uninformed, because you don't have to.

>Start the GNOME help browser.
>Click on "Man Pages" in the index page.
>Click on "User Commands".
>Scroll down a bit. Every command with a man page is listed here.
>Click on "biff".

>A nicely formatted HTML version of the biff(1) man page appears.

Most of the HTML formatted pages I've seen of man pages are just that, just
the man pages. What about making it more useful by adding hyperlinks so
that you can jump to related topics, and what about adding useful 'sample'
sections in the help.

Pete

 
 
 

HTML Help files (an updated set of man pages)

Post by Mig Mi » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00





> >Apparently you're uninformed, because you don't have to.

> >Start the GNOME help browser.
> >Click on "Man Pages" in the index page.
> >Click on "User Commands".
> >Scroll down a bit. Every command with a man page is listed here.
> >Click on "biff".

> >A nicely formatted HTML version of the biff(1) man page appears.

> Most of the HTML formatted pages I've seen of man pages are just that, just
> the man pages. What about making it more useful by adding hyperlinks so
> that you can jump to related topics, and what about adding useful 'sample'
> sections in the help.

> Pete

Bahhh.. Just RTFM thats presented to you.. besides not only GNOME but also
KDE help does exactly what you wanted. A GUI based and hyperlinked
interface to the entire help system.

Man pages normally have "usefull sample sections" and at least the KDE help
brower allows yoy to click on hyperlinked related topics

Cheers

Oh.. just started the GNOME help browser. Guess what... i selected the man
page for "aliases" and discovered LOTS of hyperlinks to related subjects and
even a TOC.. exactly like KDE's helpsystem. Complainers belong to Windows..
if you cant help yourself then*off (Quote from the bible)

 
 
 

HTML Help files (an updated set of man pages)

Post by Pete Goodw » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00



Quote:>Bahhh.. Just RTFM thats presented to you.. besides not only GNOME but
>also KDE help does exactly what you wanted. A GUI based and hyperlinked
>interface to the entire help system.

OK please give me an example of how to use smbfs. It's mentioned in the
documentation, but that's it. I found the documentation on smbmount but
precious little else.

Quote:>Oh.. just started the GNOME help browser. Guess what... i selected the
>man page for "aliases" and discovered LOTS of hyperlinks to related
>subjects and even a TOC.. exactly like KDE's helpsystem. Complainers
>belong to Windows.. if you cant help yourself then*off (Quote from
>the bible)

Piss off, huh?

You don't like a little criticism huh? Is that the state of Linux huh?
Can't take the heat, huh? Perhaps you all ought to do us a favour and get
outta the kitchen!

Pete

 
 
 

HTML Help files (an updated set of man pages)

Post by Matthias Wark » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00


It was the Sat, 03 Jun 2000 20:20:59 GMT...



> >Apparently you're uninformed, because you don't have to.

> >Start the GNOME help browser.
> >Click on "Man Pages" in the index page.
> >Click on "User Commands".
> >Scroll down a bit. Every command with a man page is listed here.
> >Click on "biff".

> >A nicely formatted HTML version of the biff(1) man page appears.

> Most of the HTML formatted pages I've seen of man pages are just that, just
> the man pages. What about making it more useful by adding hyperlinks so
> that you can jump to related topics, and what about adding useful 'sample'
> sections in the help.

What about checking out the GNOME help system yourself? Then you'd see
that, for example, all the outside references in the biff(1) manpage
are displayed as hyperlinks.

mawa
--
They're expending enough energy just taking in oxygen on a daily
basis, you think they have any synaptic activity left over to devote
to Intelligent Thought?

 
 
 

HTML Help files (an updated set of man pages)

Post by Mig Mi » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00




> >Bahhh.. Just RTFM thats presented to you.. besides not only GNOME but
> >also KDE help does exactly what you wanted. A GUI based and hyperlinked
> >interface to the entire help system.

> OK please give me an example of how to use smbfs. It's mentioned in the
> documentation, but that's it. I found the documentation on smbmount but
> precious little else.

I cant simply because i do not have anything installed that smells of SMB.
I wont install Samba just to do you a favor. As i mentioned in the previous
post.. RTFM... you're the one having the problem.

Quote:> >Oh.. just started the GNOME help browser. Guess what... i selected the
> >man page for "aliases" and discovered LOTS of hyperlinks to related
> >subjects and even a TOC.. exactly like KDE's helpsystem. Complainers
> >belong to Windows.. if you cant help yourself then*off (Quote from
> >the bible)

>*off, huh?

> You don't like a little criticism huh? Is that the state of Linux huh?
> Can't take the heat, huh? Perhaps you all ought to do us a favour and get
> outta the kitchen!

Oh.. i certainly can take the heat.. Daily i have to deal with idiots - on
Windows - that not even know how to do  a right-click with their mouse much
less read some documentation. Youre a little more sofisticated than that..
but you still dont bother to read and search for the necessary
documentation. Thats a Windows desease that you have to loose if you want
to gain some respect.
Why is the bible involved? Rementer "God helps those that help them
selves".. in other words : RTFM or*off... God approves my comments to
you.

Cheers

 
 
 

HTML Help files (an updated set of man pages)

Post by Arthu » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00



> OK please give me an example of how to use smbfs. It's mentioned in the
> documentation, but that's it. I found the documentation on smbmount but
> precious little else.

To quote the smbmnt(8) man page: ".. refer to the smbfs.txt file in
the Linux kernel Documentation directory." It's not hyperlinked,
but for anyone knowledgeable enough to need that info, that would
seem to be sufficient.

(It's under /usr/doc/kernel/filesystems - I'm sure that next
you'll be whining about how hard that is to find. Or you
could just do 'locate smbfs.txt' if your distribution uses
a different directory structure)

Quote:>*off, huh?

Hey - good argument!

Quote:> You don't like a little criticism huh? Is that the state of Linux huh?

It's not the criticism - it's the ineptness and ignorance you display
in this and other posts.

Quote:> Can't take the heat, huh? Perhaps you all ought to do us a favour and get
> outta the kitchen!

Trite - please try for more originality.

Arthur

 
 
 

HTML Help files (an updated set of man pages)

Post by Pete Goodw » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00



Quote:>I cant simply because i do not have anything installed that smells of
>SMB. I wont install Samba just to do you a favor. As i mentioned in the
>previous post.. RTFM... you're the one having the problem.

And when I RTFM and don't find any mention of how to use smbfs? What then?

Quote:>Oh.. i certainly can take the heat.. Daily i have to deal with idiots -
>on Windows - that not even know how to do  a right-click with their
>mouse much less read some documentation. Youre a little more
>sofisticated than that.. but you still dont bother to read and search
>for the necessary documentation. Thats a Windows desease that you have
>to loose if you want to gain some respect.

And when I RTFM and... I've already said that haven't I?

I've found precious little description of smbfs, and that's with a
determined search. Or maybe I shouldn't use undocumented features?

Quote:>Why is the bible involved? Rementer "God helps those that help them
>selves".. in other words : RTFM or*off... God approves my comments
>to you.

Not in any bible I know. Care to quote chapter and verse please? AS for god
approving of your comments, I don't think he gives a damn.

Pete

 
 
 

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