More lies by Micro$oft are exposed.

More lies by Micro$oft are exposed.

Post by leere.. » Sun, 15 Jun 1997 04:00:00




Distribution:



: >>> There was Windows 3.1, Windows 3.11, WFW 3.1 and WFW 3.11 (and I've
: >>> got packaging and manuals for all 4).
: >>So here we've got 4 sales and 1 user of Windows. Is this typical?

: >I have an unopened OS/2 2.0 package (still with plastic around it) on
: >my shelf. Is that typical?

: >How on earth should MS or IBM know if the sold product really is in
: >use?

: We've got 5 of them!  (OS/2 2.00 unopened and unused)

: John Wiltshire
: -----------------------------------------------------------

: Network Systems Engineer    | Ph. W +61 7 38342783
: Traffic Systems Development |     H +61 7 33006052
: -----------------------------------------------------------
: These opinions may not be mine and are almost certainly
: not those of my employer!

: Saint (n) -
:  A dead sinner, revised and edited.

Microsoft is also giving away copies of windows NT with many of it's
development packages such as Visual C++ Pro, Visual Basic Pro, J++ Pro,
Interdev, and a couple of others.  This might be part of the reason why
MS is claiming that NT is selling so well.

Lee

 
 
 

More lies by Micro$oft are exposed.

Post by David Fie » Mon, 16 Jun 1997 04:00:00




>Distribution:




>: >>> There was Windows 3.1, Windows 3.11, WFW 3.1 and WFW 3.11 (and I've
>: >>> got packaging and manuals for all 4).
>: >>So here we've got 4 sales and 1 user of Windows. Is this typical?
>: >I have an unopened OS/2 2.0 package (still with plastic around it) on
>: >my shelf. Is that typical?
>: >How on earth should MS or IBM know if the sold product really is in
>: >use?
>: We've got 5 of them!  (OS/2 2.00 unopened and unused)
>: John Wiltshire
>: -----------------------------------------------------------

>: Network Systems Engineer    | Ph. W +61 7 38342783
>: Traffic Systems Development |     H +61 7 33006052
>: -----------------------------------------------------------
>: These opinions may not be mine and are almost certainly
>: not those of my employer!
>: Saint (n) -
>:  A dead sinner, revised and edited.
>Microsoft is also giving away copies of windows NT with many of it's
>development packages such as Visual C++ Pro, Visual Basic Pro, J++ Pro,
>Interdev, and a couple of others.  This might be part of the reason why
>MS is claiming that NT is selling so well.

Really? Some of my students have bought VB 5 Pro and don't say
anything about getting NT for free.

David.

 
 
 

More lies by Micro$oft are exposed.

Post by Erick Bryce Wo » Mon, 16 Jun 1997 04:00:00




>>Microsoft is also giving away copies of windows NT with many of it's
>>development packages such as Visual C++ Pro, Visual Basic Pro, J++ Pro,
>>Interdev, and a couple of others.  This might be part of the reason why
>>MS is claiming that NT is selling so well.

>Really? Some of my students have bought VB 5 Pro and don't say
>anything about getting NT for free.

Really?  I've seen the box, with my own eyes, and it clearly states that it
includes a free copy of NT Workstation.  What isn't clear is how widespread
this practice is.  I suspect that it may be limited to educational licenses
of VB/VC++/etc, but don't even *try* to deny that it exists!

 -- Erick

 
 
 

More lies by Micro$oft are exposed.

Post by Emil » Mon, 16 Jun 1997 04:00:00



> >Microsoft is also giving away copies of windows NT with many of it's
> >development packages such as Visual C++ Pro, Visual Basic Pro, J++ Pro,
> >Interdev, and a couple of others.  This might be part of the reason why
> >MS is claiming that NT is selling so well.

> Really? Some of my students have bought VB 5 Pro and don't say
> anything about getting NT for free.

> David.

There was a sign up in the North Carolina State University
Bookstore a few weeks ago.

  "Students get Windows NT Free!"

Since I'm not a student I didn't check into the details.

I do know that I purchased a high end PC this past year
with a server type configuration and specified that I did not
want any operating system installed on it. When it arrived and
I turned it on it booted up WinNT. Of course I promptly reformatted
the hard drive but I have to wonder if the manufacturer paid for
a copy which is counted in those NT sales figures (and if I also
paid for it even if it wasn't on the invoice)

                                        Emil

 
 
 

More lies by Micro$oft are exposed.

Post by Erik Funkenbus » Mon, 16 Jun 1997 04:00:00




>Distribution:





>: >>> There was Windows 3.1, Windows 3.11, WFW 3.1 and WFW 3.11 (and I've
>: >>> got packaging and manuals for all 4).
>: >>So here we've got 4 sales and 1 user of Windows. Is this typical?

>: >I have an unopened OS/2 2.0 package (still with plastic around it) on
>: >my shelf. Is that typical?

>: >How on earth should MS or IBM know if the sold product really is in
>: >use?

>: We've got 5 of them!  (OS/2 2.00 unopened and unused)

I've got over 15 copies of various versions of OS/2 on my shelf.  Most
of them never used.

Quote:>Microsoft is also giving away copies of windows NT with many of it's
>development packages such as Visual C++ Pro, Visual Basic Pro, J++ Pro,
>Interdev, and a couple of others.  This might be part of the reason why
>MS is claiming that NT is selling so well.

Microsoft is only giving away NT with certain education sales, and
they are offering several different options.  Basically the only
people choosing the NT option are those that want NT more than any of
the other options.

In any event, these educational sales are hardly going to skew the
sales figures with their volume.

 
 
 

More lies by Micro$oft are exposed.

Post by John Wiltshi » Mon, 16 Jun 1997 04:00:00



comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy:


>Distribution:





>: >>> There was Windows 3.1, Windows 3.11, WFW 3.1 and WFW 3.11 (and I've
>: >>> got packaging and manuals for all 4).
>: >>So here we've got 4 sales and 1 user of Windows. Is this typical?

>: >I have an unopened OS/2 2.0 package (still with plastic around it) on
>: >my shelf. Is that typical?

>: >How on earth should MS or IBM know if the sold product really is in
>: >use?

>: We've got 5 of them!  (OS/2 2.00 unopened and unused)

>: John Wiltshire
>: -----------------------------------------------------------

>: Network Systems Engineer    | Ph. W +61 7 38342783
>: Traffic Systems Development |     H +61 7 33006052
>: -----------------------------------------------------------
>: These opinions may not be mine and are almost certainly
>: not those of my employer!

>: Saint (n) -
>:  A dead sinner, revised and edited.

>Microsoft is also giving away copies of windows NT with many of it's
>development packages such as Visual C++ Pro, Visual Basic Pro, J++ Pro,
>Interdev, and a couple of others.  This might be part of the reason why
>MS is claiming that NT is selling so well.

I don't think there is any argument about NT selling.  You'd really
have to have your head in the sand to say anything else!!

Microsoft is actually claiming NT *Server* is selling well, not NT
Workstation (they know that is selling well) so these sales would have
no real effect on the NTS numbers.

John Wiltshire

------------------------------------------------------
John Wiltshire              |  (w) +61 7 38342783

------------------------------------------------------
Fear: when you see B8 00 4C CD 21 and you know what it means.

 
 
 

More lies by Micro$oft are exposed.

Post by John Wiltshi » Mon, 16 Jun 1997 04:00:00


On Sun, 15 Jun 1997 00:41:12 -0400, Emil

comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy:


>> >Microsoft is also giving away copies of windows NT with many of it's
>> >development packages such as Visual C++ Pro, Visual Basic Pro, J++ Pro,
>> >Interdev, and a couple of others.  This might be part of the reason why
>> >MS is claiming that NT is selling so well.

>> Really? Some of my students have bought VB 5 Pro and don't say
>> anything about getting NT for free.

>> David.

>There was a sign up in the North Carolina State University
>Bookstore a few weeks ago.

>  "Students get Windows NT Free!"

>Since I'm not a student I didn't check into the details.

>I do know that I purchased a high end PC this past year
>with a server type configuration and specified that I did not
>want any operating system installed on it. When it arrived and
>I turned it on it booted up WinNT. Of course I promptly reformatted
>the hard drive but I have to wonder if the manufacturer paid for
>a copy which is counted in those NT sales figures (and if I also
>paid for it even if it wasn't on the invoice)

If you specified 'No OS' and it wasn't on the invoice then it
shouldn't be counted.  My guess is they burned it in with NT and
didn't erase the drive before giving it to you.

John Wiltshire

------------------------------------------------------
John Wiltshire              |  (w) +61 7 38342783

------------------------------------------------------
Fear: when you see B8 00 4C CD 21 and you know what it means.

 
 
 

More lies by Micro$oft are exposed.

Post by Erik Stephen » Mon, 16 Jun 1997 04:00:00




> > >Microsoft is also giving away copies of windows NT with many of it's
> > >development packages such as Visual C++ Pro, Visual Basic Pro, J++ Pro,
> > >Interdev, and a couple of others.  This might be part of the reason why
> > >MS is claiming that NT is selling so well.

> > Really? Some of my students have bought VB 5 Pro and don't say
> > anything about getting NT for free.

> > David.

> There was a sign up in the North Carolina State University
> Bookstore a few weeks ago.

>   "Students get Windows NT Free!"

> Since I'm not a student I didn't check into the details.

> I do know that I purchased a high end PC this past year
> with a server type configuration and specified that I did not
> want any operating system installed on it. When it arrived and
> I turned it on it booted up WinNT. Of course I promptly reformatted
> the hard drive but I have to wonder if the manufacturer paid for
> a copy which is counted in those NT sales figures (and if I also
> paid for it even if it wasn't on the invoice)

>                                         Emil

I doubt you paid for the copy if you specified that you did not want an
OS, but the manufacturer undoubtedly paid for this copy.  Regardless,
this copy is of course included in NT sales figures (Either you or the
manufacturer paid for this copy of NT).  

Counting sales is a business very often dependent on smoke and mirrors.
Magazine publications will often send free issues to non-subscribers in
order that their readership numbers look higher than they would
otherwise (to garner interest from advertisers interested in reaching as
many people as possible with their products).

The specifics of MS and their methods of inflating NT sales are
undoubtedly different, but of course such methods exist. To deny this is
to deny the greatest marketing machine of all time the attention and
accolades it deserves -- if nothing else, MS can peddle its products.
And sometimes this peddling requires a little a bit of creativity in
order that the numbers look higher than they would otherwise.

Other companies may try to attain MS's level of marketing expertise (IBM
included), but the master of the trade is without a doubt Microsoft.

We could for the sake of argument deny that MS would try to hype-up and
inflate its NT sales through such creative means, but we would find no
supporters of our argument in MS marketing circles, and would moreover
suffer from a mild case of naivete.

 
 
 

More lies by Micro$oft are exposed.

Post by Todd » Tue, 17 Jun 1997 04:00:00




> Distribution:





> : >>> There was Windows 3.1, Windows 3.11, WFW 3.1 and WFW 3.11 (and I've
> : >>> got packaging and manuals for all 4).
> : >>So here we've got 4 sales and 1 user of Windows. Is this typical?

> : >I have an unopened OS/2 2.0 package (still with plastic around it) on
> : >my shelf. Is that typical?

> : >How on earth should MS or IBM know if the sold product really is in
> : >use?

> : We've got 5 of them!  (OS/2 2.00 unopened and unused)

> : John Wiltshire
> : -----------------------------------------------------------

> : Network Systems Engineer    | Ph. W +61 7 38342783
> : Traffic Systems Development |     H +61 7 33006052
> : -----------------------------------------------------------
> : These opinions may not be mine and are almost certainly
> : not those of my employer!

> : Saint (n) -
> :  A dead sinner, revised and edited.

> Microsoft is also giving away copies of windows NT with many of it's
> development packages such as Visual C++ Pro, Visual Basic Pro, J++ Pro,
> Interdev, and a couple of others.  This might be part of the reason why
> MS is claiming that NT is selling so well.

I don't even need to see MS's claimed NT sales.  The demand for products
with support for NT is skyrocketing, which indicates to me that NT 4.0
is the product that brings NT into the mainstream.

MS could say 20 million NT copies, or 500, but it doesn't matter.  
Products that support NT are really starting to sell in the
marketplace.

-Todd K.

- Show quoted text -

Quote:

> Lee

 
 
 

More lies by Micro$oft are exposed.

Post by Darin Johns » Tue, 17 Jun 1997 04:00:00



>I don't even need to see MS's claimed NT sales.  The demand for products
>with support for NT is skyrocketing, which indicates to me that NT 4.0
>is the product that brings NT into the mainstream.

I suspect this is mostly due to companies finally getting sick of Win
3.1 and needing application upgrades.  Even if they're going to go to
Win 95, they want applications that will also work with Win NT because
of future planning or flexibility.  Maybe they already went with Win
95 and found incompatibility with the few NT machines they have.
Besides, if you could have an application that worked with Win 95, or
one that worked with Win 95 *and* Win NT, which would you buy?

--
Darin Johnson

 
 
 

More lies by Micro$oft are exposed.

Post by James Moh » Tue, 17 Jun 1997 04:00:00




Quote:> I do know that I purchased a high end PC this past year
> with a server type configuration and specified that I did not
> want any operating system installed on it. When it arrived and
> I turned it on it booted up WinNT. Of course I promptly reformatted
> the hard drive but I have to wonder if the manufacturer paid for
> a copy which is counted in those NT sales figures (and if I also
> paid for it even if it wasn't on the invoice)

I was told by a former sales manager for DEC that this is very common
practice. The hardware manufacturers
get the MS-OSes at a major discount (although the customer doesn't). They
then bundle them with the hardware.
The real problem is that they end up paying a royalty to Microsoft for
**every** machine sold, even ones without an OS.

-- jimmo
==============================================

"Science has promised man power...But, as so often happens when people are
seduced by promises
of power, the price is servitude and impotence. Power is nothing if it is
not the power to choose."
--- Joseph Weizenbaum of MIT,  in reference to computers.

 
 
 

More lies by Micro$oft are exposed.

Post by l.. » Tue, 17 Jun 1997 04:00:00



Quote:>Really?  I've seen the box, with my own eyes, and it clearly states that it
>includes a free copy of NT Workstation.  What isn't clear is how widespread
>this practice is.

FWIW.  Saw complete, not upgrade, packages of WinNT 4.0 on sale
at a computer show for $70 this weekend.  Same packaging essentially
as the copies of Win95 for a new PC (not upgrade) which go for around
$40 at same shows.  Vendor had a large quantity for sale...
CD and three floppies...the real thing.  Passed it up for Linux, but tempted
at that price.

Ed Lawson

 
 
 

More lies by Micro$oft are exposed.

Post by ca » Wed, 18 Jun 1997 04:00:00



Quote:>I've got over 15 copies of various versions of OS/2 on my shelf.  Most
>of them never used.

Sounds like you make poor decisions regarding what software to run.

Quote:>>Microsoft is also giving away copies of windows NT with many of it's
>>development packages such as Visual C++ Pro, Visual Basic Pro, J++ Pro,
>>Interdev, and a couple of others.  This might be part of the reason why
>>MS is claiming that NT is selling so well.

>Microsoft is only giving away NT with certain education sales, and
>they are offering several different options.  Basically the only
>people choosing the NT option are those that want NT more than any of
>the other options.

>In any event, these educational sales are hardly going to skew the
>sales figures with their volume.

Even Free MSFT products aren't worth the trouble.  PowerPoint suddenly unable
to recognize files it created mere minutes before.  Networking errors, even though
nothing has changed on the network for months.  
RAS server not starting and neglecting to leave a message in the event log.

No wait.  those are all features.  silly me....  I thought decreased productivity was
a bad thing...

Chris

Warping...   I don't run MSFT WinMulti-boot products.

 
 
 

More lies by Micro$oft are exposed.

Post by Todd » Thu, 19 Jun 1997 04:00:00





Funkenbusch) writes:
> >I've got over 15 copies of various versions of OS/2 on my shelf.  Most
> >of them never used.

> Sounds like you make poor decisions regarding what software to run.

> >>Microsoft is also giving away copies of windows NT with many of it's
> >>development packages such as Visual C++ Pro, Visual Basic Pro, J++ Pro,
> >>Interdev, and a couple of others.  This might be part of the reason why
> >>MS is claiming that NT is selling so well.

> >Microsoft is only giving away NT with certain education sales, and
> >they are offering several different options.  Basically the only
> >people choosing the NT option are those that want NT more than any of
> >the other options.

> >In any event, these educational sales are hardly going to skew the
> >sales figures with their volume.

> Even Free MSFT products aren't worth the trouble.  PowerPoint suddenly
unable
> to recognize files it created mere minutes before.  Networking errors,
even though
> nothing has changed on the network for months.  
> RAS server not starting and neglecting to leave a message in the event

log.

And I'm sure you called support or asked in the comp.os.ms-windows.nt.misc
groups for help...

FUD.

Quote:

> No wait.  those are all features.  silly me....  I thought decreased
productivity was
> a bad thing...

FUD.

-Todd K.

- Show quoted text -

Quote:

> Chris

> Warping...   I don't run MSFT WinMulti-boot products.