The Crash and "nt"

The Crash and "nt"

Post by Bob Nelso » Wed, 29 Oct 1997 04:00:00



Although there _may_ not be a cause and effect relationship, it is
noteworthy that NASDAQ (which had its greatest point and percentage loss
ever and supposedly is ``tech''-aware) is "nt"-based:

        URL: http://www.nasdaq.com/welcome.htm
    Charset: iso-8859-1
     Server: Microsoft-IIS/3.0
       Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 04:05:08 GMT

This is not to _necessarily_ imply that the proven reliability of Unix
would have averted today's disaster...but having to endure the
instability of "nt" on this decade's instance of ``Black Monday''
must've made NASDAQ's day even more hellish.

--
========================================================================

             http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/6375
========================================================================

 
 
 

The Crash and "nt"

Post by T » Thu, 30 Oct 1997 04:00:00



Quote:>Hmmm, lets see

>1. The machine you refer to has nothing to do with Nasdaq trading

>2. Nasdaq trading did not hickup under the incredible volume of
>yesterday and today.

>3. Were you trying to be funny?

Yes, I was wondering the same thing. Maybe we should look into what OS
the Hong Kong exchange is using . . . .    }8-)

TL
"There's a lot to learn
 from wasting time."   -Mr. Neil Young





 
 
 

The Crash and "nt"

Post by Paul Dohert » Thu, 30 Oct 1997 04:00:00



> Hmmm, lets see

> 1. The machine you refer to has nothing to do with Nasdaq trading

> 2. Nasdaq trading did not hickup under the incredible volume of
> yesterday and today.

> 3. Were you trying to be funny?

No doubt.  I have no idea what he thought he was saying.  The stoppage
of trading was purposeful, not the cause of a computer crash.  They
built in "circuit-breakers" after the crash of 1987 to stop trading for
30 mins if the DOW fell 350 points in one day, and for one hour if it
fell 550 points in one day.
 
 
 

The Crash and "nt"

Post by Brad Schneide » Thu, 30 Oct 1997 04:00:00



> Although there _may_ not be a cause and effect relationship, it is
> noteworthy that NASDAQ (which had its greatest point and percentage loss
> ever and supposedly is ``tech''-aware) is "nt"-based:

>         URL: http://www.nasdaq.com/welcome.htm
>     Charset: iso-8859-1
>      Server: Microsoft-IIS/3.0
>        Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 04:05:08 GMT

> This is not to _necessarily_ imply that the proven reliability of Unix
> would have averted today's disaster...but having to endure the
> instability of "nt" on this decade's instance of ``Black Monday''
> must've made NASDAQ's day even more hellish.

> --
> ========================================================================

>              http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/6375
> ========================================================================

Very nice site.  I had no idea that is was running on
NT.  It really is one of the very best financial
services sites I have ever used.  The response
time is excellent.

Thanks for pointing out this NT success story. ;)

--
Brad Schneider

 
 
 

The Crash and "nt"

Post by Max » Thu, 30 Oct 1997 04:00:00



:>
:> Although there _may_ not be a cause and effect relationship, it is
:> noteworthy that NASDAQ (which had its greatest point and percentage loss
:> ever and supposedly is ``tech''-aware) is "nt"-based:
:>
: Very nice site.  I had no idea that is was running on
: NT.  It really is one of the very best financial
: services sites I have ever used.  The response
: time is excellent.

: Thanks for pointing out this NT success story. ;)

Actually it was reported that the volume of heavy trading yesterday
(Tuesday) overwhelmed the NASDAQ computers running NT.

 
 
 

The Crash and "nt"

Post by C & C Helc » Thu, 30 Oct 1997 04:00:00



> Although there _may_ not be a cause and effect relationship, it is
> noteworthy that NASDAQ (which had its greatest point and percentage loss
> ever and supposedly is ``tech''-aware) is "nt"-based:

>         URL: http://www.nasdaq.com/welcome.htm
>     Charset: iso-8859-1
>      Server: Microsoft-IIS/3.0
>        Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 04:05:08 GMT

> This is not to _necessarily_ imply that the proven reliability of Unix
> would have averted today's disaster...but having to endure the
> instability of "nt" on this decade's instance of ``Black Monday''
> must've made NASDAQ's day even more hellish.

I'm no fan of NT but up and down Wall street there have been hundreds of
failed andfailing systems this week be it Unix, NT, Apple, Dec, Siemans,
IBM, or whatever.
Most errors are caused by applications (bugs) and lack of resources like
memory, file space,
cpu, and network. In my experiance OS failures run a distant third.

What makes days like tuesday hellish is that all of the high level managers
run into the
operations room demanding that something be done. They often bully an
operator
into doing something truly stupid...

What is scary is the number of systems that are front ended by 286's running
MSDOS.

Regards.

Christopher Helck

 
 
 

The Crash and "nt"

Post by Bob Nelso » Fri, 31 Oct 1997 04:00:00




> > Although there _may_ not be a cause and effect relationship, it is
> > noteworthy that NASDAQ (which had its greatest point and percentage loss
> > ever and supposedly is ``tech''-aware) is "nt"-based:

> >         URL: http://www.nasdaq.com/welcome.htm
> >     Charset: iso-8859-1
> >      Server: Microsoft-IIS/3.0
> >        Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 04:05:08 GMT

> > This is not to _necessarily_ imply that the proven reliability of Unix
> > would have averted today's disaster...but having to endure the
> > instability of "nt" on this decade's instance of ``Black Monday''
> > must've made NASDAQ's day even more hellish.
> I'm no fan of NT but up and down Wall street there have been hundreds of
> failed andfailing systems this week be it Unix, NT, Apple, Dec, Siemans,
> IBM, or whatever.

It's just that "crash" and "nt" are so closely related!

--
========================================================================

             http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/6375
========================================================================

 
 
 

The Crash and "nt"

Post by Anyone for thermonuclear tenni » Fri, 31 Oct 1997 04:00:00


On Wed, 29 Oct 1997 23:08:10 -0800, a small green fish snuck into
C & C Helck's internet account in order to express the following:

Quote:> I'm no fan of NT but up and down Wall street there have been hundreds of
> failed andfailing systems this week be it Unix, NT, Apple, Dec, Siemans,
> IBM, or whatever.
> Most errors are caused by applications (bugs) and lack of resources like
> memory, file space, cpu, and network. In my experiance OS failures run a
> distant third.

No doubt.

Quote:> What makes days like tuesday hellish is that all of the high level managers
> run into the
> operations room demanding that something be done. They often bully an
> operator into doing something truly stupid...

If I were that operator I would demand that he get the F out while I dealt
with the mess.  If he persisted I'd tell him to do it himself and walk out.
You don't scream and holler at someone up to his ears in chaos.  Not twice.

I've been in the middle of chaos - tornado going through the area while I
was on air - and it's critical that you get things right.  It's best done
without added pressure.  You have plenty enough as it is.

Quote:> What is scary is the number of systems that are front ended by 286's running
> MSDOS.

How d'you mean?  As terminals, or as part of the loop?
 
 
 

The Crash and "nt"

Post by Paul Dohert » Fri, 31 Oct 1997 04:00:00



Quote:> I've always considered that a cheat.
> Does this "circuit breaker" kick if it goes _up_ 350?

hehehe  I doubt it!  (in fact didn't the DOW just go up about 374 points
the day after the crash?)
 
 
 

The Crash and "nt"

Post by Anyone for thermonuclear tenni » Fri, 31 Oct 1997 04:00:00


On Wed, 29 Oct 1997 13:52:51 GMT, a small green fish snuck into
Paul Doherty's internet account in order to express the following:

Quote:> No doubt.  I have no idea what he thought he was saying.  The stoppage
> of trading was purposeful, not the cause of a computer crash.  They
> built in "circuit-breakers" after the crash of 1987 to stop trading for
> 30 mins if the DOW fell 350 points in one day, and for one hour if it
> fell 550 points in one day.

I've always considered that a cheat.
Does this "circuit breaker" kick if it goes _up_ 350?
 
 
 

The Crash and "nt"

Post by Christopher Brow » Tue, 04 Nov 1997 04:00:00





>> Although there _may_ not be a cause and effect relationship, it is
>> noteworthy that NASDAQ (which had its greatest point and percentage loss
>> ever and supposedly is ``tech''-aware) is "nt"-based:

>>         URL: http://www.nasdaq.com/welcome.htm
>>     Charset: iso-8859-1
>>      Server: Microsoft-IIS/3.0
>>        Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 04:05:08 GMT

>> This is not to _necessarily_ imply that the proven reliability of Unix
>> would have averted today's disaster...but having to endure the
>> instability of "nt" on this decade's instance of ``Black Monday''
>> must've made NASDAQ's day even more hellish.
>What operating system caused the Black Monday
>crash in 1987?  Windows NT was over 6 years away
>from being released.  It was probably caused by
>using a 70's operating system on 80's hardware.
>Just wait til they put Linux on stock market systems.
>A 70's operating system on 90's hardware may
>cause another Great Depression.

As you say, Black Monday was in 1987.  You're nicely misreading the
statements.  1987 did not occur in *this* decade.  It occurred in the
*last* decade.  (I regret that I was in school at the time, not having
funds to spare; my finance theory course monitored the situation.  Had
I been on a work term, a couple of thousand dollars would have gone
into the market and made a few extra...)

You're the only one who thinks that anybody is referring to October
1987.

The issue is the "blip" that occurred the other week.

Happily, it appears that this example of the inadequacy of NT only had
a potent market impact for a short period of time.  My portfolio is
back up to roughly the value level it had before "BillOS" blew up.

And you of course miss the boat entirely.

Most of the critical systems are very probably using 1960s operating
systems on 1990s hardware.  Both UNIX and MVS trace their roots to the
late '60s, and clearly have had more time to be made robust than
"Bill's Hacked Version of VMS for Windows."
--

Have you contributed Your Fair Share to Linux?  For ideas, see:
<http://www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/lsf.html>

 
 
 

The Crash and "nt"

Post by David J. Owe » Tue, 04 Nov 1997 04:00:00




> Although there _may_ not be a cause and effect relationship, it is
> noteworthy that NASDAQ (which had its greatest point and percentage loss
> ever and supposedly is ``tech''-aware) is "nt"-based:

>         URL: http://www.nasdaq.com/welcome.htm
>     Charset: iso-8859-1
>      Server: Microsoft-IIS/3.0
>        Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 04:05:08 GMT

> This is not to _necessarily_ imply that the proven reliability of Unix
> would have averted today's disaster...but having to endure the
> instability of "nt" on this decade's instance of ``Black Monday''
> must've made NASDAQ's day even more hellish.

What operating system caused the Black Monday
crash in 1987?  Windows NT was over 6 years away
from being released.  It was probably caused by
using a 70's operating system on 80's hardware.
Just wait til they put Linux on stock market systems.
A 70's operating system on 90's hardware may
cause another Great Depression.

I would trust a commercial operating system over
Shovelware like Linux any day.  Linux has
"proven reliability?"  Linux does not even have
a journaled file system like NT's NTFS.  Someone
could trip over a power cord at NASDAQ and
cause billions of dollars in loses if Linux was being
used.  It isn't and NT is, for obvious reasons.

 
 
 

The Crash and "nt"

Post by dgp » Sat, 08 Nov 1997 04:00:00


Quote:> Actually it was reported that the volume of heavy trading yesterday
> (Tuesday) overwhelmed the NASDAQ computers running NT.

Source?
 
 
 

The Crash and "nt"

Post by Mike Nelso » Sun, 09 Nov 1997 04:00:00





> > Although there _may_ not be a cause and effect relationship, it is
> > noteworthy that NASDAQ (which had its greatest point and percentage loss
> > ever and supposedly is ``tech''-aware) is "nt"-based:

> >         URL: http://www.veryComputer.com/
> >     Charset: iso-8859-1
> >      Server: Microsoft-IIS/3.0
> >        Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 04:05:08 GMT

> > This is not to _necessarily_ imply that the proven reliability of Unix
> > would have averted today's disaster...but having to endure the
> > instability of "nt" on this decade's instance of ``Black Monday''
> > must've made NASDAQ's day even more hellish.
> What operating system caused the Black Monday
> crash in 1987?  Windows NT was over 6 years away
> from being released.  It was probably caused by
> using a 70's operating system on 80's hardware.
> Just wait til they put Linux on stock market systems.
> A 70's operating system on 90's hardware may
> cause another Great Depression.

> I would trust a commercial operating system over
> Shovelware like Linux any day.  Linux has
> "proven reliability?"  Linux does not even have
> a journaled file system like NT's NTFS.  Someone
> could trip over a power cord at NASDAQ and
> cause billions of dollars in loses if Linux was being
> used.  It isn't and NT is, for obvious reasons.

The Oct 87 crash was caused by a very large pension fund that decided
to  sell several billion dollars of stock in one day.  This hammered the
market
and, because innumerable traders were prepared to sell when an inflated
market
began to drop, the whole thing went into the toilet.  The drop in stock
prices had
little or nothing to do with  "computer crashes" . Although many systems were
overloaded,
so was the phone system as anyone who tried to place an order with a broker
then
remembers.
Some said at the time that computerized trading (sell if the market drops x
points)
was a major culprit on the 87 crash, and the overloading of the phone system
and the traders'
computers kept it from being worse than it could have been.
That is, computers locking up would lessen a market crash, not worsen it.
References: any news magazine of the period: The Economist, Newsweek, WSJ,
and similar
publications in most of the world.

The reason I *in is that this thread is beginning to imply that "computer
crashes" caused
"market crashes" and I'm hoping that we are not beginning another Internet
myth.

 
 
 

The Crash and "nt"

Post by Sascha Bohnenka » Thu, 20 Nov 1997 04:00:00



|> I would trust a commercial operating system over
|> Shovelware like Linux any day.  Linux has
|> "proven reliability?"  Linux does not even have
|> a journaled file system like NT's NTFS.  Someone
|> could trip over a power cord at NASDAQ and
|> cause billions of dollars in loses if Linux was being
|> used.  It isn't and NT is, for obvious reasons.

*hihi hi hoho haha* -- well you missed some :), didn't you?
Even two simple commands (F00F ... LOOK CMD ...) could
stop EVERY intel-based NT box, not to mention a try
of making a copy of a huge file :) thats reliable? never!