The fundamental importance of WINE for Linux

The fundamental importance of WINE for Linux

Post by Sinister Midge » Sat, 29 Dec 2001 10:33:18




> Ok, for those who don't know what WINE is, here is the link:
> http://www.winehq.org

> In short: WINE is a Linux program that enables any windows software to
> run on a Linux box. It works by implementing all the windows specific
> APIs and translating them to the corresponding Linux APIs. So far WINE
> is not complete but some Windows programs already run on it.

> It is my opinion that this project is of fundamental strategic
> importance for Linux and I wonder why so little effort is invested into
> it. Only around 20 programmers are really working on it, although some
> more may be officially involved.

> Imagine if WINE worked 100%. That would mean, ANY windows program could
> run on a Linux box. This would definitively be the end for the Microsoft
> Monopoly. Nobody would need to buy a Windows OS anymore. Finally the
> argument "Linux has only a limited number of software" would no longer
> be true. You could run all your favorite windows programs on Linux. On
> the long run this would also benefit Linux native software. Because once
> Wine is running, more and more people would use Linux, increasing the
> market share for Linux native software also!

> So in fact, working on WINE is more important than working on any other
> Linux software, except the Kernel itself of course.

> So I wonder, why is there so little being done to promote WINE? This
> should be marked as one big strategic corner piece of Linux and open
> source! Instead people are wasting time on endless discussions in
> Newsgroups or useless projects...All the big open source advocates
> should be promoting WINE, why aren't they doing it?

> I think there is a war going on, and if we want to win we have to build
> up a strategy and focus on important goals. Just building superior
> technologie doesn't guarantee a win. Lets face it: Linux has less than
> 1% marketshare. Peoples decision are based on practical issues: does the
> operating system run software X? If not, I cannot use it...no matter how
> superior it is. We have to think about the users not just technical
> issues. Otherwise Linux will be a niche product for ever.

> WINE is what Linux needs most and most urgent!

The old fallacy that has been the downfall of more than one company: try
to be as windoze-like as possible and everybody will be attracted to your
product because it is obviously far superior to anything else, including
windoze.

Well, M$ has a nice little habit of taking whatever it can to help make
something popular, then changing the standard enough that the play-alike
isn't alike enough. So the play-alike has to try to catch up to the new
"standard" by investing a lot of time, effort and money into emulating
the new little toy that M$ creates. Then M$ changes it again. Soon the
copycat dies a natural, slow, agonizing death. The result is M$ now drags
in many of the sheep that were following the "superior" copycat around,
making their market ever larger.

No thanks. I'll be glad to see Ximian follow that path and end with the
destruction they've already been warned about.

--
Humpty Dumpty was pushed.

 
 
 

The fundamental importance of WINE for Linux

Post by gt » Sat, 29 Dec 2001 11:40:46


If people write good applications for Linux, there
won't be any need for running Windows programs
in the first place.

Lack of usable user-interfae is the major drawback
of current Linux distributions. I woulnt buy any
arguments "gnome is good.. kde is good". They
are nothing but Windows UI clones.

I wish Apple opens up its Mac OS X for Intel
platforms or Mac becomes cheaper.



Quote:> Ok, for those who don't know what WINE is, here is the link:
> http://www.winehq.org

> In short: WINE is a Linux program that enables any windows software to
> run on a Linux box. It works by implementing all the windows specific
> APIs and translating them to the corresponding Linux APIs. So far WINE
> is not complete but some Windows programs already run on it.

> It is my opinion that this project is of fundamental strategic
> importance for Linux and I wonder why so little effort is invested
> into it. Only around 20 programmers are really working on it, although
> some more may be officially involved.

> Imagine if WINE worked 100%. That would mean, ANY windows program
> could run on a Linux box. This would definitively be the end for the
> Microsoft Monopoly. Nobody would need to buy a Windows OS anymore.
> Finally the argument "Linux has only a limited number of software"
> would no longer be true. You could run all your favorite windows
> programs on Linux. On the long run this would also benefit Linux
> native software. Because once Wine is running, more and more people
> would use Linux, increasing the market share for Linux native software
> also!

> So in fact, working on WINE is more important than working on any
> other Linux software, except the Kernel itself of course.

> So I wonder, why is there so little being done to promote WINE? This
> should be marked as one big strategic corner piece of Linux and open
> source! Instead people are wasting time on endless discussions in
> Newsgroups or useless projects...All the big open source advocates
> should be promoting WINE, why aren't they doing it?

> I think there is a war going on, and if we want to win we have to
> build up a strategy and focus on important goals. Just building
> superior technologie doesn't guarantee a win. Lets face it: Linux has
> less than 1% marketshare. Peoples decision are based on practical
> issues: does the operating system run software X? If not, I cannot use
> it...no matter how superior it is. We have to think about the users
> not just technical issues. Otherwise Linux will be a niche product for
> ever.

> WINE is what Linux needs most and most urgent!

> Thanks for any feedback...


 
 
 

The fundamental importance of WINE for Linux

Post by Charlie Ebe » Sat, 29 Dec 2001 12:00:59



> If people write good applications for Linux, there
> won't be any need for running Windows programs
> in the first place.

> Lack of usable user-interfae is the major drawback
> of current Linux distributions. I woulnt buy any
> arguments "gnome is good.. kde is good". They
> are nothing but Windows UI clones.

> I wish Apple opens up its Mac OS X for Intel
> platforms or Mac becomes cheaper.

There are plenty of GOOD apps right now.

And there's more being added to the list of stable every month.

If your turning your back to Linux because of a false notion
that Linux is app-less, you've probably also NEVER ran Linux.

--

Charlie

 
 
 

The fundamental importance of WINE for Linux

Post by emun » Sat, 29 Dec 2001 13:13:03


Sounds to me that you may be better off Drinking it rather than Developing
it

:P

Just being a Smart ASs

:P

Quote:> Ok, for those who don't know what WINE is, here is the link:
> http://www.winehq.org

> In short: WINE is a Linux program that enables any windows software to
> run on a Linux box. It works by implementing all the windows specific
> APIs and translating them to the corresponding Linux APIs. So far WINE
> is not complete but some Windows programs already run on it.

> It is my opinion that this project is of fundamental strategic
> importance for Linux and I wonder why so little effort is invested
> into it. Only around 20 programmers are really working on it, although
> some more may be officially involved.

> Imagine if WINE worked 100%. That would mean, ANY windows program
> could run on a Linux box. This would definitively be the end for the
> Microsoft Monopoly. Nobody would need to buy a Windows OS anymore.
> Finally the argument "Linux has only a limited number of software"
> would no longer be true. You could run all your favorite windows
> programs on Linux. On the long run this would also benefit Linux
> native software. Because once Wine is running, more and more people
> would use Linux, increasing the market share for Linux native software
> also!

> So in fact, working on WINE is more important than working on any
> other Linux software, except the Kernel itself of course.

> So I wonder, why is there so little being done to promote WINE? This
> should be marked as one big strategic corner piece of Linux and open
> source! Instead people are wasting time on endless discussions in
> Newsgroups or useless projects...All the big open source advocates
> should be promoting WINE, why aren't they doing it?

> I think there is a war going on, and if we want to win we have to
> build up a strategy and focus on important goals. Just building
> superior technologie doesn't guarantee a win. Lets face it: Linux has
> less than 1% marketshare. Peoples decision are based on practical
> issues: does the operating system run software X? If not, I cannot use
> it...no matter how superior it is. We have to think about the users
> not just technical issues. Otherwise Linux will be a niche product for
> ever.

> WINE is what Linux needs most and most urgent!

> Thanks for any feedback...

 
 
 

The fundamental importance of WINE for Linux

Post by Erik Funkenbusc » Sat, 29 Dec 2001 14:33:37



Quote:> Ok, for those who don't know what WINE is, here is the link:
> http://www.winehq.org

> In short: WINE is a Linux program that enables any windows software to
> run on a Linux box. It works by implementing all the windows specific
> APIs and translating them to the corresponding Linux APIs. So far WINE
> is not complete but some Windows programs already run on it.

Wow, talk about contradictions.  How can it run any windows software, and
implement all the windows API's if it's not complete and only some programs
already run on it?

Quote:> It is my opinion that this project is of fundamental strategic
> importance for Linux and I wonder why so little effort is invested
> into it. Only around 20 programmers are really working on it, although
> some more may be officially involved.

Projects like Wine have mixed acceptance because  many people believe that
running Windows programs will only result in more Windows programs and fewer
Linux/Unix programs.

Quote:> Imagine if WINE worked 100%. That would mean, ANY windows program
> could run on a Linux box. This would definitively be the end for the
> Microsoft Monopoly.

OS/2 running nearly all Windows applications wasn't the end of MS's monopoly.
And WINE isn't likely to ever be able to run ANY windows program, since some
of them will depend on very specfic things (like specific file systems,
specific devices, etc..)

Quote:> Nobody would need to buy a Windows OS anymore.

But they would still do it.  Just like they did with Win95 versus OS/2.

Quote:> Finally the argument "Linux has only a limited number of software"
> would no longer be true. You could run all your favorite windows
> programs on Linux. On the long run this would also benefit Linux
> native software. Because once Wine is running, more and more people
> would use Linux, increasing the market share for Linux native software
> also!

Why write Linux software when you can write a windows program and get both
markets?

Quote:> So in fact, working on WINE is more important than working on any
> other Linux software, except the Kernel itself of course.

Sadly, you're hopelessly short sighted.

Quote:> So I wonder, why is there so little being done to promote WINE? This
> should be marked as one big strategic corner piece of Linux and open
> source! Instead people are wasting time on endless discussions in
> Newsgroups or useless projects...All the big open source advocates
> should be promoting WINE, why aren't they doing it?

Maybe because they care more about those "useless projects".

Quote:> I think there is a war going on, and if we want to win we have to
> build up a strategy and focus on important goals. Just building
> superior technologie doesn't guarantee a win. Lets face it: Linux has
> less than 1% marketshare. Peoples decision are based on practical
> issues: does the operating system run software X? If not, I cannot use
> it...no matter how superior it is. We have to think about the users
> not just technical issues. Otherwise Linux will be a niche product for
> ever.

A war going on.  Unfortunately, that's the attitude that CAUSES war.  It's a
self-fulfilling prophecy.  Do you really think MS would have tried to crush
Netscape if NS hadn't publicly announced their intent to take MS out?  I doubt
it.
 
 
 

The fundamental importance of WINE for Linux

Post by Charlie Ebe » Sat, 29 Dec 2001 14:36:40





>> Ok, for those who don't know what WINE is, here is the link:
>> http://www.veryComputer.com/

>> In short: WINE is a Linux program that enables any windows software to
>> run on a Linux box. It works by implementing all the windows specific
>> APIs and translating them to the corresponding Linux APIs. So far WINE
>> is not complete but some Windows programs already run on it.

> Wow, talk about contradictions.  How can it run any windows software, and
> implement all the windows API's if it's not complete and only some programs
> already run on it?

>> It is my opinion that this project is of fundamental strategic
>> importance for Linux and I wonder why so little effort is invested
>> into it. Only around 20 programmers are really working on it, although
>> some more may be officially involved.

> Projects like Wine have mixed acceptance because  many people believe that
> running Windows programs will only result in more Windows programs and fewer
> Linux/Unix programs.

>> Imagine if WINE worked 100%. That would mean, ANY windows program
>> could run on a Linux box. This would definitively be the end for the
>> Microsoft Monopoly.

> OS/2 running nearly all Windows applications wasn't the end of MS's monopoly.
> And WINE isn't likely to ever be able to run ANY windows program, since some
> of them will depend on very specfic things (like specific file systems,
> specific devices, etc..)

>> Nobody would need to buy a Windows OS anymore.

> But they would still do it.  Just like they did with Win95 versus OS/2.

>> Finally the argument "Linux has only a limited number of software"
>> would no longer be true. You could run all your favorite windows
>> programs on Linux. On the long run this would also benefit Linux
>> native software. Because once Wine is running, more and more people
>> would use Linux, increasing the market share for Linux native software
>> also!

> Why write Linux software when you can write a windows program and get both
> markets?

>> So in fact, working on WINE is more important than working on any
>> other Linux software, except the Kernel itself of course.

> Sadly, you're hopelessly short sighted.

>> So I wonder, why is there so little being done to promote WINE? This
>> should be marked as one big strategic corner piece of Linux and open
>> source! Instead people are wasting time on endless discussions in
>> Newsgroups or useless projects...All the big open source advocates
>> should be promoting WINE, why aren't they doing it?

> Maybe because they care more about those "useless projects".

>> I think there is a war going on, and if we want to win we have to
>> build up a strategy and focus on important goals. Just building
>> superior technologie doesn't guarantee a win. Lets face it: Linux has
>> less than 1% marketshare. Peoples decision are based on practical
>> issues: does the operating system run software X? If not, I cannot use
>> it...no matter how superior it is. We have to think about the users
>> not just technical issues. Otherwise Linux will be a niche product for
>> ever.

> A war going on.  Unfortunately, that's the attitude that CAUSES war.  It's a
> self-fulfilling prophecy.  Do you really think MS would have tried to crush
> Netscape if NS hadn't publicly announced their intent to take MS out?  I doubt
> it.

Oh!  So that's why they were found guilty Erik!

Appearently the courts have ruled that Erik *ingbush is an idiot.

--

Charlie

 
 
 

The fundamental importance of WINE for Linux

Post by Terran Melconi » Sat, 29 Dec 2001 15:03:05




>self-fulfilling prophecy.  Do you really think MS would have tried to crush
>Netscape if NS hadn't publicly announced their intent to take MS out?

Yes.

I completely agree with your earlier comments about it being OS/2 all
over again if Linux supported Windows programs perfectly, but I think
you're being hopelessly na?ve if you seriously believe Microsoft needs
any sort of goading to destroy the competition.

 
 
 

The fundamental importance of WINE for Linux

Post by Erik Funkenbusc » Sat, 29 Dec 2001 17:05:48





> >self-fulfilling prophecy.  Do you really think MS would have tried to crush
> >Netscape if NS hadn't publicly announced their intent to take MS out?

> Yes.

> I completely agree with your earlier comments about it being OS/2 all
> over again if Linux supported Windows programs perfectly, but I think
> you're being hopelessly na?ve if you seriously believe Microsoft needs
> any sort of goading to destroy the competition.

MS didn't even care about the internet until Netscape made it clear they were
planning to use the Internet to destroy MS.
 
 
 

The fundamental importance of WINE for Linux

Post by Ian Pege » Sat, 29 Dec 2001 18:02:30




>> Ok, for those who don't know what WINE is, here is the link:
>> http://www.winehq.org

>> In short: WINE is a Linux program that enables any windows software to
>> run on a Linux box. It works by implementing all the windows specific
>> APIs and translating them to the corresponding Linux APIs. So far WINE
>> is not complete but some Windows programs already run on it.

>> <snip>

> See http://appdb.codeweavers.com/appbrowse.php for details of currently
> supported programs.

...it's slightly difficult to follow whether all the apps listed have
actually been got to work properly...

--
Ian
"He knows his onions"

 
 
 

The fundamental importance of WINE for Linux

Post by Sinister Midge » Sat, 29 Dec 2001 18:45:07



> If people write good applications for Linux, there won't be any need for
> running Windows programs in the first place.

> Lack of usable user-interfae is the major drawback of current Linux
> distributions. I woulnt buy any arguments "gnome is good.. kde is good".
> They are nothing but Windows UI clones.

> I wish Apple opens up its Mac OS X for Intel platforms or Mac becomes
> cheaper.

Something is amiss. I recall Apple claiming MS stole the UI and called it
WinDoze. I remember being alive at the time, so this isn't secondhand or
anything like that.

I guess the revised new world history (probably being written by Billy
Crotchcheese Gates at this very moment) is that everything was stolen from
WinDoze because it was around even before God. So He swiped some code from
"MS Heaven & Earth 1.0" and claimed it was original.

--
We are what we eat; I'm cheap, fast, and easy.