What about innovation?

What about innovation?

Post by Christopher Brow » Wed, 23 Jun 1999 04:00:00



On Tue, 22 Jun 1999 14:25:46 +0200, Francis Van Aeken


>Isn't it a shame that a rehashed version of UNIX is getting
>so much more attention than a more innovative product like
>BeOS?

>I would love to use a non-legacy OS, but no way I'm going to
>use outdated technology.

>Still, I want a system that is supported by a critical mass of
>users: I need those drivers...

You can't have it both ways.  You *have* to pick one of:
a) Outdated technology, or
b) Outdated hardware.

It is arguable that Be isn't much more than a rehashed cross between
UNIX and MacOS.

It adds in message queues as a basic OS facility, and adds some
filesystem functionality (e.g. - multiple streams, "file as
namespace."), but isn't particularly novel in most respects, and borrows
heavily from technologies you'd likely consider "outdated."

That's not intended to indicate that Be is "bad;" on the contrary, if it
has "stolen" good ideas from good systems, and integrates them together
coherently, that can make for a very nice resulting system.

Indeed, that is *precisely* where UNIX came from, as a sort of "cut
down" version of Multics.  UNIX's success may be attributed, in part, to
a design based on distilling features from some of the better OSes of
the '60s and '70s.

Windows' lack of attractiveness comes (at least in part) from a design
that grabbed things in in a vastly *less* organized way, and took
critical design features from systems that were desparately
*under*designed.  (e.g. - MS-DOS, the underlying layer, represents
little more than a clone of CP/M, both of which are "merely" simple
program loaders)

--
VERITAS AETERNA -- DON'T SETQ T.

 
 
 

What about innovation?

Post by Christopher Brow » Thu, 24 Jun 1999 04:00:00


On Tue, 22 Jun 1999 14:25:46 +0200, Francis Van Aeken


>Isn't it a shame that a rehashed version of UNIX is getting
>so much more attention than a more innovative product like
>BeOS?

>I would love to use a non-legacy OS, but no way I'm going to
>use outdated technology.

>Still, I want a system that is supported by a critical mass of
>users: I need those drivers...

You can't have it both ways.  You *have* to pick one of:
a) Outdated technology, or
b) Outdated hardware.

It is arguable that Be isn't much more than a rehashed cross between
UNIX and MacOS.

It adds in message queues as a basic OS facility, and adds some
filesystem functionality (e.g. - multiple streams, "file as
namespace."), but isn't particularly novel in most respects, and borrows
heavily from technologies you'd likely consider "outdated."

That's not intended to indicate that Be is "bad;" on the contrary, if it
has "stolen" good ideas from good systems, and integrates them together
coherently, that can make for a very nice resulting system.

Indeed, that is *precisely* where UNIX came from, as a sort of "cut
down" version of Multics.  UNIX's success may be attributed, in part, to
a design based on distilling features from some of the better OSes of
the '60s and '70s.

Windows' lack of attractiveness comes (at least in part) from a design
that grabbed things in in a vastly *less* organized way, and took
critical design features from systems that were desparately
*under*designed.  (e.g. - MS-DOS, the underlying layer, represents
little more than a clone of CP/M, both of which are "merely" simple
program loaders)

--
VERITAS AETERNA -- DON'T SETQ T.


 
 
 

What about innovation?

Post by Francis Van Aeke » Thu, 24 Jun 1999 04:00:00



Quote:> You can't have it both ways.  You *have* to pick one of:
> a) Outdated technology, or
> b) Outdated hardware.

Not necessarily. Some of the latest professional sound cards come with
drivers for BeOS. The potential is real.

Quote:> It is arguable that Be isn't much more than a rehashed cross between
> UNIX and MacOS.

It's exactly that kind of cross-fertilisation that we need (rather than just
mutation). BeOS allows me to do things (as a user and as a programmer)
which are harder to do with UNIX or MacOS.

I'm convinced that multimedia will be crucial in the future of computing.
So, I hope that BeOS (or a similar OS) will become a serious contender.

Quote:> It adds in message queues as a basic OS facility, and adds some
> filesystem functionality (e.g. - multiple streams, "file as
> namespace."), but isn't particularly novel in most respects, and borrows
> heavily from technologies you'd likely consider "outdated."
> That's not intended to indicate that Be is "bad;" on the contrary, if it
> has "stolen" good ideas from good systems, and integrates them together
> coherently, that can make for a very nice resulting system.
> Indeed, that is *precisely* where UNIX came from, as a sort of "cut
> down" version of Multics.  UNIX's success may be attributed, in part, to
> a design based on distilling features from some of the better OSes of
> the '60s and '70s.

That's indeed how things evolve, and should evolve!

Francis.

 
 
 

1. There is only one innovation that matters... (was Re: Micros~1 innovations)


: Microsoft's main innovation is quite obvious:  putting lots of computing
: power into the hands of general consumers.  Who else, besides, Commodore,
: Apple, IBM, or Atari has even attempted this?  The beloved UNIX weenies at
: Sun?  Silicon Graphics (officially renamed to "SGI")?  Yeah... _right_.

Classic.  Say "Who else, besides" and then name [almost] everybody
involved in the first generation of personal computers.  Missing Radio
Shack was a big oversight.  You could also add TI who sold a lot of 99/4s
(if I've got the model right), and Adam Osborne with the Osborne I.  And
Sinclair.  Maybe Acorn in europe ...

UNIX weenies were interested in a different functionality at the time, and
one that could not be created at a PC price point.  We could count a
smaller number of people who tried to bring such systems down to the PC
price point (Fortune, Radio Shack Model 16(*)), but it didn't really work.

We had to wait until historical events conspired to create free UNIXes and
commodity hardware to run them.

What a happy outcome,

John

* - at one time purported to be the most widely used UNIX system.

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