Very Computer

[ANN] Beta testing of CW for Linux on Intel and PowerPC platforms

Metrowerks is taking applications for Beta testers for the next version of
CodeWarrior for Linux on Intel and PowerPC Platforms.   To qualify you
must be familiar with the Linux operating system and are interested in
Beta testing CodeWarrior for Linux.  You must be able to download large
files and you will be required to file bug reports.

The following versions of Linux will be supported.

Intel
------

    Red Hat             6.2
    SuSE                6.4
    Caldera OpenLinux   2.4
    TurboLinux          6.0
    Mandrake            7.1

PowerPC
-------

    LinuxPPC            2000
    SuSE                6.4

e-mail message that has

Your Name
Your preferred e-mail address
Are you currently a Beta Tester for any Metrowerks Product.
Which distribution of Linux you have on which Platform

Again, only serious testers that understand working with the Linux
operating system should apply.

Thank you for your interest.

Ron
--

Metrowerks, a Motorola Company   -  Ron Liechty

I consider this spam.

--
#exclude <windows.h>

I don't - I am delighted that the vendor of the main MacOS development system
has decided to support Linuxppc after supporting intel linux for some time
(one would think that a "Motorola Company" would finally get around to
supporting its own processors, though Motorola's idiotic policies over
in-house computer purchases suggests that they might might still prefer
intel processors, provoking the chagrin of PowerPC users and the laughter of
everyone else familiar with its policy).

Thank you MWRon for informing the linuxppc community of this significant
event.

Warren Nagourney
Univ. of Washington
Physics Dept.

Quote:>--
>#exclude <windows.h>

--

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Unless it was posted multiple times that I've not seen, it's not spam.
It was cross-posted to precisely two newsgroups. The definition of spam
is of a post that appears on a large number of newsgroups (some
definitions include a quantification of this) or that are e-mailed,
unrequested, to a large number of people. This is a widely-accepted
definition, and as far as I can tell from this one post, it does NOT
qualify.

Now, whether the message falls within the charter of the groups to
which it was posted is another matter. A post can be off-topic -- and
even potentially net abuse -- and not be spam. I haven't checked the
charters of the relevant newsgroups to see if they allow posts
announcing beta programs. Even if they don't, though, that makes the
posts off-topic, but probably not net abuse. Certainly not spam.

--

http://www.rodsbooks.com
Author of books on Linux networking & multi-OS configuration

What don't you consider spam?

Okay, that does come off rather confrontational.  I'll rephrase.

What criteria do you use to make your determinations of spam and
not-spam?

--
__  _____________  __
\ \_\ \__   __/ /_/ /        <http://www.war-of-the-worlds.org/>
.\  __ \ | | / __  /----------------------------------------------------
^ \_\ \_\|_|/_/ /_/             Don't mail me, I'll mail you.

Quote:>Unless it was posted multiple times that I've not seen, it's not spam.
>It was cross-posted to precisely two newsgroups. The definition of spam
>is of a post that appears on a large number of newsgroups (some
>definitions include a quantification of this) or that are e-mailed,
>unrequested, to a large number of people. This is a widely-accepted
>definition, and as far as I can tell from this one post, it does NOT
>qualify.

>Now, whether the message falls within the charter of the groups to
>which it was posted is another matter. A post can be off-topic -- and
>even potentially net abuse -- and not be spam. I haven't checked the
>charters of the relevant newsgroups to see if they allow posts
>announcing beta programs. Even if they don't, though, that makes the
>posts off-topic, but probably not net abuse. Certainly not spam.

I can hardly thing of anything more ON-topic than an announcement in this group
seeking beta testers for PowerPC Linux development tools. I encourage MetroWerks
to keep us informed of CodeWarrior Linux news.

As for the original complaintant, I suggest that he switch to decaffeinated
products.

One clear rule is: article of a commercial advertizing nature in a discussion
group.

--
#exclude <windows.h>

That may very well meet the definitions for "off-charter" or
"inappropriate" posting.

It does not appear to meet the definition of "spam", as held by most
ISPs and most of the anti-spam advocates who post in
news.admin.net-abuse.email.  According to the most widely-accepted
consensus definitions, "spam" is defined by volume of posting or
mailing (it has to be bulk) and by its unsolicited nature... but _not_
by its content (commercial or otherwise).

I, personally, don't consider an occasional "Hey, we're looking for
beta testers for a new product" to be inappropriate in a discussion
group.  If it becomes obvious that the vendor is actually chumming for
potential customers, that could be a problem, and if they actually
start spamming their ads every few days it _would_ be a problem.

--

Visit the Jade Warrior home page:  http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior/
  I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
     boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw a time when Dave Platt would say:

Indeed.  The trolling of:
  "Our CAD package can replace both Visio and AutoCAD, and is virtually
   guaranteed to be useful to _EVERY_ Linux user!"
   [Feel free to insert misspellings and adverse changes of grammar
    as needed]
represents something problematic, especially when the vendor used to
post articles of that nature on a nearly daily basis.

In contrast, a solicitation for _actual beta testers_ seems to me to be
not abusive particularly when you consider the large amounts of other
"general rubbish" that get posted when people haven't a clue of what
the newsgroup is intended for and don't care.

The fact that the Linux _kernel_ is pretty strongly tied to GCC suggests
to me that comp.os.linux.development.apps would be a more appropriate
venue than comp.os.linux.development.system, but people are clueless
enough about what belongs here that that doesn't strike me as a _big_
problem...
--

"Some sins carry with  them their own automatic punishment.  Microsoft
is one such.  Live by the Bill,  suffer by the Bill, die by the Bill."
-- Tom Christiansen

I appreciate those that have found my posting useful, and I apolgoize to
those that felt it was abusive.

Quote:>The fact that the Linux _kernel_ is pretty strongly tied to GCC suggests
>to me that comp.os.linux.development.apps would be a more appropriate
>venue than comp.os.linux.development.system, but people are clueless
>enough about what belongs here that that doesn't strike me as a _big_
>problem...

the next generation of CodeWarrior for Linux will continue to use GCC
plugins, but maybe with the addition of Java tools I can see where the
comp.os.linux.development.apps would have been more appropriate.

Again I apologize if I offended anyone it was not meant to be any
commercial posting.

Ron

--
Metrowerks acquires HiWare AG to be European headquarters
http://www.metrowerks.com/news/hiware/

Metrowerks, a Motorola Company   -  Ron Liechty

| I appreciate those that have found my posting useful, and I apolgoize to
| those that felt it was abusive.
|
|>The fact that the Linux _kernel_ is pretty strongly tied to GCC suggests
|>to me that comp.os.linux.development.apps would be a more appropriate
|>venue than comp.os.linux.development.system, but people are clueless
|>enough about what belongs here that that doesn't strike me as a _big_
|>problem...
|
| the next generation of CodeWarrior for Linux will continue to use GCC
| plugins, but maybe with the addition of Java tools I can see where the
| comp.os.linux.development.apps would have been more appropriate.

Is this an assumption that all apps have to be done in Java?  What about
those who code in C?

I was also going to ask why there is no support for Slackware?

--
| Phil Howard - KA9WGN | My current websites: linuxhomepage.com, ham.org
| phil  (at)  ipal.net +----------------------------------------------------

Perhaps it had something to do with the tone of the post. Serious testers only my butt.
They need to deal with one or two annoyances to keep from offending everyone else.

Serious replies only. I'm very busy.

--

                                        http://www.FreeClassAds.com/
                                        http://bhconsult.com/
                                        http://bhconsult.com/bh/pgp.key

Even more to the point, "these are the only supported versions of
linux". Like, get real. Give me the source openly and I'll compile it
*myself* on a Debian GNULinux/PPC setup and check that it works - which
effectively does some 'work' *for* the company. Fail to cater for /all/ my
tastes in platform, both now and in the future, by introducing arbitrary
restrictions for no good reason, and I'll not even look at it.

Quote:> Serious replies only. I'm very busy.

This is a followup, not a reply. Hope that counts ;8)

~Tim
--
| Geek Code: GCS dpu s-:+ a-- C++++ UBLUAVHSC++++ P+++ L++ E--- W+++(--) N++
| w--- O- M-- V-- PS PGP++ t--- X+(-) b D+ G e++(*) h++(*) r--- y-          
| The sun is melting over the hills,         | http://piglet.is.dreaming.org/

Sorry I thought that was understood,  C/C++ is supported but Java will be
new for this release.

Quote:>I was also going to ask why there is no support for Slackware?

We only have so many people so we can't validate on everything.  For now
we can only deal with problems on a limited amount of distros.  It should
work on all of them but we just can't handle all of them logistically.  
Possibly as we get into later beta versions it will open up to more
distros.

As for serious people, I'm afraid that again we don't have the resources
for dabbling in Linux, we can't be teaching people how to use Linux.

Ron

--
Metrowerks acquires HiWare AG to be European headquarters
http://www.metrowerks.com/news/hiware/

Metrowerks, a Motorola Company   -  Ron Liechty

| >[ANN] Beta testing of CW for Linux on Intel and PowerPC platforms
| >
| >Metrowerks is taking applications for Beta testers for the next version of
| >CodeWarrior for Linux on Intel and PowerPC Platforms.   To qualify you
| >must be familiar with the Linux operating system and are interested in
| >Beta testing CodeWarrior for Linux.  You must be able to download large
| >files and you will be required to file bug reports.
|
| I consider this spam.

  You live on a lofty plane...

  I think it's great that they are looking for a cross-section of
testers, and I fail to see what's wrong with that. This is not an
attempt to sell, nor was it posted widely.

  I was a beta for Microsoft C v5 and v6, and I think I was selected
because I was on X3J11 with some guys from Redmond. If they were doing
this for Slackware (which I use for development) or SPARC, I would love
to debug some drivers I'm doing for Prodigy. But while they will run on
Redhat and SuSE at some point, they will develop on Slackware, because I
like a very manual environment.

--

  "Doing interesting things with little computers since 1979"(tm)
It doesn't bother me that people make flavored yogurt with fruits. It doesn't
bother me that someone makes caramel broccoli yogurt. It doesn't even bother
me that people buy it to rub on each other's * bodies.
What DOES bother me is that people buy it to EAT!