Very Computer

Hey folks,

I've got some apps that I'm gonna start developing and will release for free
on Linux.  I think I'd prefer to write them in Java because of it's "cross
platform-ness".  Not that I have plans to release it for another system, but
if I ever wanted to, it's nice to know that I could.

Question is, is Java a good language to develop in when dealing with Linux?
Like, do most people have the runtime environment already installed?  Is it
at all buggy?  Do the runtime environments behave close to identical on the
different Linux distributions?  Do the runtime environments perform well (as
far as speed goes)?  Now, I know that Java probably won't run as fast as a
C++ program, but if it runs as fast and as good as it does on Windows, then
that's good enough for me.  Finally, is there any other issues I should
think about as far as if I ever wanted to try to get it to be distributed
with a Linux distribution?

Anything else you wanted to add would be appreciated.

Otherwise, If not Java, I guess the QT library will become my new best
friend.

Thanks for the advice...sorry for the cross post (the more opinions the
better)!

Eternally enlightened us with:

Quote:> Hey folks,

Hi. Please don't crosspost. Just post to a single group.

Quote:> I've got some apps that I'm gonna start developing and will release
> for free on Linux.  I think I'd prefer to write them in Java because
> of it's "cross platform-ness".  Not that I have plans to release it
> for another system, but if I ever wanted to, it's nice to know that I
> could.

Same goes for Perl and Python, just to name a few.

Quote:> Question is, is Java a good language to develop in when dealing with Linux?

I like Perl a whole lot better.

Quote:> Otherwise, If not Java, I guess the QT library will become my new best
> friend.

Both Perl and Python have QT bindings. C++ is also cross-platform if you
only use cross-platform libraries (like QT, OpenGL and SDL for
instance). It's just that you'll have to recompile it if you want to run
it on another platform.

Quote:> sorry for the cross post (the more opinions the better)!

Just ask a single group. At least set a "Followup-To:" header. If you
don't know what that is, then just don't crosspost.

Sybren
--
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?

Eternally enlightened us with:

Quote:> Hey folks,

Hi. Please don't crosspost. Just post to a single group.

Quote:> I've got some apps that I'm gonna start developing and will release
> for free on Linux.  I think I'd prefer to write them in Java because
> of it's "cross platform-ness".  Not that I have plans to release it
> for another system, but if I ever wanted to, it's nice to know that I
> could.

Same goes for Perl and Python, just to name a few.

Quote:> Question is, is Java a good language to develop in when dealing with Linux?

I like Perl a whole lot better.

Quote:> Otherwise, If not Java, I guess the QT library will become my new best
> friend.

Both Perl and Python have QT bindings. C++ is also cross-platform if you
only use cross-platform libraries (like QT, OpenGL and SDL for
instance). It's just that you'll have to recompile it if you want to run
it on another platform.

Quote:> sorry for the cross post (the more opinions the better)!

Just ask a single group. At least set a "Followup-To:" header. If you
don't know what that is, then just don't crosspost. And there are many
people who simply filter out crossposted posts, so they won't read your
post in the first place.

Sybren
--
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?

Quote:> Eternally enlightened us with:
> > Hey folks,

> Hi. Please don't crosspost. Just post to a single group.

> > I've got some apps that I'm gonna start developing and will release
> > for free on Linux.  I think I'd prefer to write them in Java because
> > of it's "cross platform-ness".  Not that I have plans to release it
> > for another system, but if I ever wanted to, it's nice to know that I
> > could.

> Same goes for Perl and Python, just to name a few.

> > Question is, is Java a good language to develop in when dealing with
Linux?

> I like Perl a whole lot better.

> > Otherwise, If not Java, I guess the QT library will become my new best
> > friend.

> Both Perl and Python have QT bindings. C++ is also cross-platform if you
> only use cross-platform libraries (like QT, OpenGL and SDL for
> instance). It's just that you'll have to recompile it if you want to run
> it on another platform.

> > sorry for the cross post (the more opinions the better)!

> Just ask a single group. At least set a "Followup-To:" header. If you
> don't know what that is, then just don't crosspost. And there are many
> people who simply filter out crossposted posts, so they won't read your
> post in the first place.

> Sybren

Oh come on...it's one little cross post to 2 *very* related newsgroups.  I
even pre-apologized for it.
Anyway, I'm more just looking to find out what the disadvantages to
programming in Java on Linux are.  Like are there difficulties that users
have when they install the program...or does Java run particularly slow in
Linux...or do most Linux distributions not come with Java....Those kind of
questions.
Didn't realize that QT was cross platform.  Interesting, but if I were to
release a C++ program in Windows, I'd use the Windows libraries.
Thanks anyway for the help!

[Followup-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps]

Quote:>I've got some apps that I'm gonna start developing and will release for
>free on Linux. I think I'd prefer to write them in Java because of it's
>"cross platform-ness". Not that I have plans to release it for another
>system, but if I ever wanted to, it's nice to know that I could.

Whether or not Java is good for you depends quite much on the type of
application you're writing. Do you expect to do something Linux-specific,
or is this app just an interface for some file/database/networked data
processing?

If the latter (i.e., you're not needing any OS specific things), then
Java should be ok -- esp. if you're planning to have a GUI (Java isn't
that good for full-screen text interfaces).

Quote:>Question is, is Java a good language to develop in when dealing with
>Linux? Like, do most people have the runtime environment already
>installed? Is it at all buggy? Do the runtime environments behave close
>to identical on the different Linux distributions?

As for portability; if it's a pure-Java application, then when you release
it, it's not dependent on the OS platform. However, it is more or less
dependent on the Java runtime version. Luckily, you can have several
Java runtime environments installed in parallel. With Java, as you're
not even concerned with OSes, different distributions shouldn't be
a problem for you -- as long as you can find the Java runtime of correct
version.

One problem might be that Linux distributions haven't included any Java
runtime environments -- you've always had to install your own.

Quote:>Do the runtime environments perform well (as far as speed goes)? Now, I
>know that Java probably won't run as fast as a C++ program, but if it
>runs as fast and as good as it does on Windows, then that's good enough
>for me. Finally, is there any other issues I should think about as far
>as if I ever wanted to try to get it to be distributed with a Linux
>distribution?

Speedwise, should be OK -- Java speed has improved pretty much since the
JRE 1.1 times. This, of course, assuming that your code is behaving.
--
Wolf  a.k.a.  Juha Laiho     Espoo, Finland

         PS(+) PE Y+ PGP(+) t- 5 !X R !tv b+ !DI D G e+ h---- r+++ y++++
"...cancel my subscription to the resurrection!" (Jim Morrison)

Eternally enlightened us with:

Quote:> Oh come on...it's one little cross post to 2 *very* related
> newsgroups.

Still: people in one group might reply to that group only. People in the
other group will miss parts of the discussion, and miss information.
It'll cause irritation.

Quote:> I even pre-apologized for it.

If you already know it is something to apologise for, why do it in the
first place?

Quote:> Anyway, I'm more just looking to find out what the disadvantages to
> programming in Java on Linux are.

Not much.

Quote:> Like are there difficulties that users have when they install the
> program...

Which program? The JRE or your program?

Quote:> or does Java run particularly slow in Linux...

I never run Java stuff, so I wouldn't know.

Quote:> or do most Linux distributions not come with Java....

Most distros have some sort of Java distribution. Not Sun's though.

Quote:> Didn't realize that QT was cross platform.  

Well, I took a look at QT for windoze, and I could only find an old
version for free. Maybe I didn't look good enough, though. And it stated
you also need Visual Studio, which I don't. I wanted to build a windoze
program completely Open Source, but that might not be possible with QT.

Quote:> Interesting, but if I were to release a C++ program in Windows, I'd
> use the Windows libraries.

Why? They suck. For instance: all widgets have a fixed size and
position, so if someone has a larger font, things won't fit any more
since windoze doesn't scale it for you. QT on the other hand will scale
just fine, which allows very flexible fonts, easy translations, etc.
Just an example.

Sybren
--
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?

It works on Linux much like it works on windows.  The application will
look slightly different under Linux to Windows but Swing does a good job
of laying out the components well enough.

Quote:> Like, do most people have the runtime environment already
> installed?  

AFAIK Redhat doesn't include the JRE but some distributions do, for
example Libranet 2.8.  So for most people its a case of downloading the
JRE.

Quote:> Is it at all buggy?  Do the runtime environments behave
> close to identical on the different Linux distributions?

I use Borland's JBuilder for my development for about two years now under
Linux.  It is a pretty large example of a program written entirely in
java and I can't recall it ever crashing.  

Quote:> Do the runtime
> environments perform well (as far as speed goes)?  Now, I know that Java
> probably won't run as fast as a C++ program,

Comparing JBuilder with some of the C++ builder type tools I have
used in the past, JBuilder's user interface is slower.

Quote:> but if it runs as fast and
> as good as it does on Windows, then that's good enough for me.

I haven't noticed any difference.  There are benchmarks somewhere -
perhaps you could try google to locate some if you were really interested.

Quote:> Finally,
> is there any other issues I should think about as far as if I ever
> wanted to try to get it to be distributed with a Linux distribution?

> Anything else you wanted to add would be appreciated.

> Otherwise, If not Java, I guess the QT library will become my new best
> friend.

Because Java is cross platform so of coarse it doesn't integrate well
into desktop environments such as Gnome.  i.e. if you change one of the
fonts in the Gnome control centre then nothing will change in your Java
application.  So I guess this may be a consideration.  QT will work
better with a KDE desktop and GTK will work better under Gnome.  I
haven't used used python but its very popular - you may want to check out
its GUI bindings, and find out how well it integrates into Linux desktop
environments.

Ximian's mono project is also worth a look.

Quote:> Thanks for the advice...sorry for the cross post (the more opinions the
> better)!

Regards,

Paul Taylor.