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Post by Gregory Maxwel » Wed, 01 Aug 2001 04:40:08




> Torrey Hoffman writes:
> > I hate to jump in and extend this mostly off-topic thread, but I would be
> > a little annoyed if Outlook was banned from LKML.  I've got two machines
> > on my desk here at work - one is Win2K, and is used almost exclusively for
[snip]
> This does not mean you have to use Outlook to _send_ mail to
> the linux-kernel mailing list. Do this:

There already are readers of LKML who filter listmail from Outlook/'Internet
mail server' into /dev/null.
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Post by Torrey Hoffma » Wed, 01 Aug 2001 04:40:06



> This does not mean you have to use Outlook to _send_ mail to
> the linux-kernel mailing list. Do this:

[...]

(sigh.) So you want me to change the way I (and other people) work
so.... Why was it again?  So we can block the one message in 1000
that contains a Windows virus and was sent from Outlook?  

and, incidentally, block bug reports and other potentially useful
mail and valid help requests from people who may not be subscribed,
may be having difficulty installing Linux...

And you think that's better than just blocking the viruses, or
binary attachments in general, or something else more rational?

Please.

Torrey
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Post by Per Jesse » Wed, 01 Aug 2001 05:00:10



>Torrey Hoffman writes:

>> I hate to jump in and extend this mostly off-topic thread, but I would be
>> a little annoyed if Outlook was banned from LKML.  I've got two machines
>> on my desk here at work - one is Win2K, and is used almost exclusively for
>> Outlook and Word.  It's very difficult to give those up when the rest of
>> the company uses them extensively.  The automatic meeting scheduling and
>> other MS Exchange features of Outlook are not available in other clients,
>> and why should I switch when Outlook works fine?  

Completely agree. I am in the exact same situation. I need/want to follow
Linux development, but my corporate desktop is MS, Outlook etc.
What's wrong with that ? (my development systems are not connected to
anything else but our internal network.)

Quote:>> Of course the other computer runs Linux, and is where all my real work
>> gets done.  It's convenient to have both environments.

>This does not mean you have to use Outlook to _send_ mail to
>the linux-kernel mailing list. Do this:

>1. log into the Linux box you have
>2. run emacs
>3. Control-x m
>4. fill in the header fields and write your message
>5. Control-c Control-c

Bollocks. Look, the main target here is practicality, and what
you just demonstrated was plainly impractical.

Quote:>If you really must send mail directly from the Windows box,
>get emacs for Windows and skip step 1 above.

This is an awful lot of effort just to overcome some peoples
failure to avoid double-clicking on attachments in Outlook.

Quote:

>BTW, if you can't log into anything that can open an SMTP connection
>to the outside world and don't have a relay, then most likely your
>employer doesn't want you sending stuff to linux-kernel anyway.

Disagree. See above and join life in the real world.

regards,
Per Jessen, Zurich.

regards,
Per Jessen

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Post by Per Jesse » Wed, 01 Aug 2001 05:30:06




>> Banning Outlook isn't so bad. Assuming you are stuck with Windows,
>> you still have many choices. Netscape/Mozilla and Eudora would be
>> the obvious choices. I think you can get pine. Emacs has been
>> ported to Windows, so you have the rmail/gnus stuff. Surely you
>> can tolerate at least one of these many choices.

>The problem is that in plenty of large companies not only are you stuck with
>Windows, but you're also stuck with either Outlook or Notes because of
>corporate decisions (i.e., Exchange or Domino). Trust me; been there, done
>that.

And me. And in reality there is nothing really wrong with that. The world
isn't black and white - it's not Windows or Linux either. For a corporation
of eg. 20.000 Windows desktops, you need a lot of convincing to switch the desktop
to Linux. Even if one of your core products is Linux based.
The fact is that your corporate desktop has little or nothing to do with your
products. Get it ? If that WERE the case, a lot of the corporations still
writing and shipping OS/390 software would have a serious problem.
(been there and done that too)

So, please, don't blame Outlook in this context - it IS a user problem - Outlook
is just a *relatively* innocent mail-client.

regards,
Per Jessen, Zurich

Windows 2001: "I'm sorry Dave ...  I'm afraid I can't do that."

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Post by Horst von Bran » Wed, 01 Aug 2001 06:20:10



[...]

Quote:> Hmm... linux developers at large corporations are stuck with [only]
> windows?

What about would-be Linux hackers, or people running Linux (il)legally on
some machines inside a WinXX shop? Want to leave them out for good? Not
everybody on lkml is a hard-core kernel hacker...

Now, banning some attachment types I could understand...
--
Dr. Horst H. von Brand                Usuario #22616 counter.li.org
Departamento de Informatica                     Fono: +56 32 654431
Universidad Tecnica Federico Santa Maria              +56 32 654239
Casilla 110-V, Valparaiso, Chile                Fax:  +56 32 797513
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Post by Jan Nieuwenhuize » Wed, 01 Aug 2001 07:30:13




> There already are readers of LKML who filter listmail from
> Outlook/'Internet

  /hotmail.com

Quote:> mail server' into /dev/null.

--

http://www.xs4all.nl/~jantien       | http://www.lilypond.org

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Post by christophe barb » Wed, 01 Aug 2001 17:40:08


Le lun, 30 jui 2001 22:23:03, William Scott Lockwood III a crit :

Quote:> Basically, I use a hotmail and Outlook Express to help me SORT messages
> on LKML.  It makes it MUCH easier for me to find the messages I want to
> read vs the rest of the noise that I don't understand yet.

Sick ...

And btw you should read the various HotMail agreements you have signed.
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Post by William Scott Lockwood II » Wed, 01 Aug 2001 20:50:10


Here you have hit on the real problem.

I got hit with a virus this way once long ago - I did something about
it.  No more problems.  IN fact, anyone who's using McAfee to scan their
mail under 9x/NT is fine.  Even if they try to open the attachment.

So banning Outlook/Hotmail is not the answer.  Education is.

Scott

----- Original Message -----


Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 3:27 AM
Subject: Re: Test mail

My proposal to block mail composed with Outlook was half serious but I
believe that the reason behind this half serious side is that it
educates
users.

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Post by William Scott Lockwood II » Wed, 01 Aug 2001 21:30:12


Think what you like.

No matter what a shrink wrap (or Click-Wrap) agreement states, license
agreements can not, and do not invalidate my rights (and my copyright)
to what I write myself.  Not in the country anyway.

The problem is a combination of over zealousness and bigotry.  Period.
Use what you like, please allow me to do the same.

Scott

----- Original Message -----



Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 7:09 AM
Subject: Re: Test mail

Hi William Scott Lockwood III,

In your mails, you use outlook and hotmail together.
This is a mistake.

Outlook is a "not so bad idea" but which comes with a collection of
security holes. Eudora is definetly a better choice.

Hotmail is a http-based mail owned by microsoft. And all contents which
go
in it become potential Microsoft content (there's a kind of implicit
copyright transfert between you end Microsoft).
You should read carrefully what you have (implicitly perhaps) signed.
You should avoid Hotmail. This is not related to M$ against Linux but to
your rights (to access and only you to your data)  against M$ profits.
From
the Microsoft point of view, Hotmail License is an improvment over the
way
they lock their clients by using proprietary (embraced-and-extanded)
protocols and standarts.
Hotmail was the first site to use Microsoft Passport, which is the a
draft
of .Net. If you accept Hotmail today you will accept the worst of .Net
tomorrow.

btw You said that Microsoft comes with good solutions.
This view (linux is not user friendly) is partly wrong because what is
said
to be not user friendly is caused by people not accepting differences.
M$ users are scared by what we call the unix-way.

To conclude and I will stop following this thread, I'm against adding IQ
test in the lkml subscribe process.

Christophe

PS: I don't remember the name but there is a unix tool that provide
everything for MsExchange sharing facilities.

Le mar, 31 jui 2001 13:42:20, William Scott Lockwood III a crit :
> Sick?  No.

> As much as we dislike M$'s marketing practices, one has to admit that
> they DO come up with some GOOD solutions to problems, they just bundle
> them into BAD implementations that are non-free.

> As I said earlier, the problem isn't hotmail - the problem is
attitudes
> like yours.

> Scott

> ----- Original Message -----


> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 3:34 AM
> Subject: Re: Test mail

> Le lun, 30 jui 2001 22:23:03, William Scott Lockwood III a crit :
> > Basically, I use a hotmail and Outlook Express to help me SORT
> messages
> > on LKML.  It makes it MUCH easier for me to find the messages I want
> to
> > read vs the rest of the noise that I don't understand yet.

> Sick ...

> And btw you should read the various HotMail agreements you have
signed.
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe
linux-kernel"
> in

> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
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--
Christophe Barb

Lineo France - Lineo High Availability Group
42-46, rue Mdric - 92110 Clichy - France
phone (33).1.41.40.02.12 - fax (33).1.41.40.02.01
http://www.lineo.com
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Post by Alexander V. Bilichenk » Wed, 01 Aug 2001 22:00:12


Is too silly to speak about what you most likely did not see at all.  All
security BUGS can be fixed checking "more restricted". If it configured
correctly all should be ok.
I use Outlook and I have never been infected with any email virus because of
it.
Best regards,

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lets start the war, said Meggy
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

----- Original Message -----


Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 12:34 PM
Subject: Re: Test mail

> Le lun, 30 jui 2001 22:23:03, William Scott Lockwood III a crit :
> > Basically, I use a hotmail and Outlook Express to help me SORT messages
> > on LKML.  It makes it MUCH easier for me to find the messages I want to
> > read vs the rest of the noise that I don't understand yet.

> Sick ...

> And btw you should read the various HotMail agreements you have signed.
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in

> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
> Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/

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