24x7 operation and backup

24x7 operation and backup

Post by Darrin Hodge » Sun, 17 Jan 1999 04:00:00




> We are thinking of using our system for 24x7 operation.  Therefore there will
> be no downtime for tasks like backup.  Since it is a distributed databases
> system, online backup is not a choice.

legato has modules that allow the backup of running data bases. they cover most
version of unix
including linux and freebsd and NT. expect to pay $$$$. it is a reliable backup
system and can
handle a number of backup devices.

--

"Speak! You have a civil tongue in your head. I know
you have because I sewed it back in there myself!"
(I Was a *age Frankenstein, 1957)

 
 
 

24x7 operation and backup

Post by Rev. Don Koo » Sun, 17 Jan 1999 04:00:00



> We are thinking of using our system for 24x7 operation.  Therefore there will
> be no downtime for tasks like backup.  Since it is a distributed databases
> system, online backup is not a choice.  The question is how do you do a
> backup of the whole system everyday without shutting down the database
> service.  A brief disruption is OK, say a 15 min interval but a full backup
> will take at least an hour. Moreover, the setup should be without any human
> intervention since backup will be done after midnight.

> We are thinking of using RAID 1 (mylex DAC960) but do not know if it will work
> (break mirror; backup a drive; resync mirror) and how to make the process
> automatic (no one is going to hotswap a drive).

> Any recommendation?

        If you use a Network Appliance filer, it will automatically detect
a drive failure and and use the parity disk to rebuild the failed
disk onto the hot spare.  It's all automatic and you can hot swap
the bad drive whenever you get around to it (i.e., any time before
you run out of hot spares).

                        Hope this helps,
                              Don

--
**********************      You a bounty hunter?
* Rev. Don McDonald  *      Man's gotta earn a living.
* Baltimore, MD      *      Dying ain't much of a living, boy.
**********************             "Outlaw Josey Wales"
http://members.home.net/oldno7

 
 
 

24x7 operation and backup

Post by Kelly Fergas » Mon, 18 Jan 1999 04:00:00


2 things

Don is correct about the Network Appliance, but that also applies to
just about any raid device you might buy nowadays.  Most every raid
device we have purchased in the past 4 years has had that ability.
The small ones can't.  (just 5 disks in the raid set, no spare)
Of course, the netapp is cool for other reasons as well.

On using raid 1, one of our groups did that with ODS.  If you don't
have Suns, I would imagine the other vendors products have the
capability.  With ODS, it is basically a simple script.

shutdown db
metadetach -f yadda yadda
bring up db
back up offlined disk
metattach yadda yadda

Kelly




>> We are thinking of using our system for 24x7 operation.  Therefore there will
>> be no downtime for tasks like backup.  Since it is a distributed databases
>> system, online backup is not a choice.  The question is how do you do a
>> backup of the whole system everyday without shutting down the database
>> service.  A brief disruption is OK, say a 15 min interval but a full backup
>> will take at least an hour. Moreover, the setup should be without any human
>> intervention since backup will be done after midnight.

>> We are thinking of using RAID 1 (mylex DAC960) but do not know if it will work
>> (break mirror; backup a drive; resync mirror) and how to make the process
>> automatic (no one is going to hotswap a drive).

>> Any recommendation?

>    If you use a Network Appliance filer, it will automatically detect
>a drive failure and and use the parity disk to rebuild the failed
>disk onto the hot spare.  It's all automatic and you can hot swap
>the bad drive whenever you get around to it (i.e., any time before
>you run out of hot spares).

>                    Hope this helps,
>                          Don

 
 
 

24x7 operation and backup

Post by Michael George II » Thu, 21 Jan 1999 04:00:00


Quote:

> We are thinking of using RAID 1 (mylex DAC960) but do not know if it will work
> (break mirror; backup a drive; resync mirror) and how to make the process
> automatic (no one is going to hotswap a drive).

Ok, let's think about this for a second. Suppose for a moment that the primary
disk DIES before you get a chance to resync the mirror. You're done! Game over
man!

Here are some options.

1. Shut the database down once a day and copy all the datafiles over to a disk
farm.  Then backup the diskfarm to tape.

2. Triple mirror your drives.  Then you have at least two in sync at all times.
Break the third mirror off once a day and back it up.

3. If you are running Oracle, you can turn on hot backup mode and archive
logging.  It is a little tricky to restore since you will need to roll forward
using the archive logs.  If you are running Oracle 7 on Solaris, I would be happy
to share some scripts for doing this.

4. Buy Legato Networker and buy the Oracle HOT BACKUP plug in.  I've never tried
it, but theoretically it should work.  Be aware that Legato tech support is less
than stellar.  If you are using Sun, you can buy Legato from Sun under the name
Solstice Backup and get Sun support.

5. Don't backup.  Buy a second system and use some sort of replication scheme.
This way you always have a hot backup online.

Give us some more info on the HW/SW and maybe you'll get some more ideas.

-Mike

 
 
 

24x7 operation and backup

Post by jbl.. » Fri, 22 Jan 1999 04:00:00


When did Legato make a linux and freebsd client.  When I worked for Legato the
Linux build machine died and no one ever replaced it.  The comment I got when we
tried to budget for a new machine is "Linux will never have a Market impact"  From
what I know of Legato's software, I would purchase Veritas NetBackup.  Price is
very comparable and Support is light years ahead of Legato.

Sun Microsystems OEM for both Legato and Veritas and they will push Veritas stating
it is quite a better product.

Just my two cents!



> > We are thinking of using our system for 24x7 operation.  Therefore there will
> > be no downtime for tasks like backup.  Since it is a distributed databases
> > system, online backup is not a choice.

> legato has modules that allow the backup of running data bases. they cover most
> version of unix
> including linux and freebsd and NT. expect to pay $$$$. it is a reliable backup
> system and can
> handle a number of backup devices.

> --

> "Speak! You have a civil tongue in your head. I know
> you have because I sewed it back in there myself!"
> (I Was a *age Frankenstein, 1957)

 
 
 

24x7 operation and backup

Post by Jerry Roger » Fri, 05 Feb 1999 04:00:00




> >We are thinking of using our system for 24x7 operation.  Therefore there
> will
> >be no downtime for tasks like backup.  Since it is a distributed databases
> >system, online backup is not a choice. The question is how do you do a
> >backup of the whole system everyday without shutting down the database
> >service.

> There's a lot of missing data here, such as:
>         How big is the typical database?
>         What database product are you using?
>         What is your disaster recovery plan?
>         How stable is your software/hardware?
>         What are uptime requirements? (7x24x365xforever?)
>         Are there planned windows for maintenance?
>         Is this a OLTP environment?  2 tier?  3 tier?

> Y'all need to hire someone who has experience doing this sort of thing for a
> few weeks (or months!) to work this out or make some plans to migrate to a
> robust database designed for this sort of operation - like, for example,
> Oracle or DB2.

> It's a bad thing when your system crashes and you can't restore your data.

> Mickey Baker
> System Administration Consultant


Try using snap volumes under vxfs filesystems using veritas.  It works
GREAT!!!!!
 
 
 

24x7 operation and backup

Post by Mickey Bake » Sat, 06 Feb 1999 04:00:00



>We are thinking of using our system for 24x7 operation.  Therefore there
will
>be no downtime for tasks like backup.  Since it is a distributed databases
>system, online backup is not a choice. The question is how do you do a
>backup of the whole system everyday without shutting down the database
>service.

There's a lot of missing data here, such as:
        How big is the typical database?
        What database product are you using?
        What is your disaster recovery plan?
        How stable is your software/hardware?
        What are uptime requirements? (7x24x365xforever?)
        Are there planned windows for maintenance?
        Is this a OLTP environment?  2 tier?  3 tier?

Y'all need to hire someone who has experience doing this sort of thing for a
few weeks (or months!) to work this out or make some plans to migrate to a
robust database designed for this sort of operation - like, for example,
Oracle or DB2.

It's a bad thing when your system crashes and you can't restore your data.

Mickey Baker
System Administration Consultant

 
 
 

24x7 operation and backup

Post by Joe Buh » Tue, 09 Feb 1999 04:00:00


quite a few companies are implementing "snap" technologies.  i've worked with
network appliance's snapshots for a couple of years now and they work very
nicely.  i know auspex just recently introduced their own version of snapshots as
well.

another solution, if you have the disk space, is to mirror your database and when
you want to do the backup, simply break the mirror.




> > >We are thinking of using our system for 24x7 operation.  Therefore there
> > will
> > >be no downtime for tasks like backup.  Since it is a distributed databases
> > >system, online backup is not a choice. The question is how do you do a
> > >backup of the whole system everyday without shutting down the database
> > >service.

> > There's a lot of missing data here, such as:
> >         How big is the typical database?
> >         What database product are you using?
> >         What is your disaster recovery plan?
> >         How stable is your software/hardware?
> >         What are uptime requirements? (7x24x365xforever?)
> >         Are there planned windows for maintenance?
> >         Is this a OLTP environment?  2 tier?  3 tier?

> > Y'all need to hire someone who has experience doing this sort of thing for a
> > few weeks (or months!) to work this out or make some plans to migrate to a
> > robust database designed for this sort of operation - like, for example,
> > Oracle or DB2.

> > It's a bad thing when your system crashes and you can't restore your data.

> > Mickey Baker
> > System Administration Consultant

> Try using snap volumes under vxfs filesystems using veritas.  It works
> GREAT!!!!!

 
 
 

24x7 operation and backup

Post by Mike Di Fulvi » Tue, 09 Feb 1999 04:00:00



> quite a few companies are implementing "snap" technologies.  i've worked with
> network appliance's snapshots for a couple of years now and they work very
> nicely.  i know auspex just recently introduced their own version of snapshots as
> well.

> another solution, if you have the disk space, is to mirror your database and when
> you want to do the backup, simply break the mirror.




> > > >We are thinking of using our system for 24x7 operation.  Therefore there
> > > will
> > > >be no downtime for tasks like backup.  Since it is a distributed databases
> > > >system, online backup is not a choice. The question is how do you do a
> > > >backup of the whole system everyday without shutting down the database
> > > >service.

> > > There's a lot of missing data here, such as:
> > >         How big is the typical database?
> > >         What database product are you using?
> > >         What is your disaster recovery plan?
> > >         How stable is your software/hardware?
> > >         What are uptime requirements? (7x24x365xforever?)
> > >         Are there planned windows for maintenance?
> > >         Is this a OLTP environment?  2 tier?  3 tier?

> > > Y'all need to hire someone who has experience doing this sort of thing for a
> > > few weeks (or months!) to work this out or make some plans to migrate to a
> > > robust database designed for this sort of operation - like, for example,
> > > Oracle or DB2.

> > > It's a bad thing when your system crashes and you can't restore your data.

> > > Mickey Baker
> > > System Administration Consultant

> > Try using snap volumes under vxfs filesystems using veritas.  It works
> > GREAT!!!!!

I agree with Mickeys' comments as far as 'snapshot' views and vxfs
filesystems.

I have worked out a Sun solution that uses both hardware and software to
provide a 'mirror' like back-up. I have developed these solutions mostly
for ISP's and several 'hot' sites (* or other targets of the uptight
world) were we create 'hot-standby' disks that are offline, and without
power to the outside image of the world, that along with strong on-line
incremental type backup models...create a infrastructure that can insure
a 99.96% uptime which is the best I could ever brag about. The hardware
costs these days with dollar per gig being low...and backup server
hardware costs going down makes it possible,along with a change in
thinking to what is a 24X7...has worked quite well for my clients.

I would love to further discuss this model which is hardly anything
really genius..but is in fact..a return to SIMPLE...carefully targeted
models which provide the *sense* of a true 100% uptime system.

Feel free to email me directly and we can discuss what it takes to have
such a comfort level not only on a infrastrucure uptime level but a
greater security 'warm and fuzzy' feeling.

Regards...

--
Michael P. Di Fulvio                   W3 Solutions Group Inc.
UNIX/Internet Consultants       Project Management - Y2K Analysis
954-747-xxxx  (Home)                   954-533-0913 (Business)

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