junk e-mail messages!!

junk e-mail messages!!

Post by Kevin P » Wed, 08 Jan 1997 04:00:00



hey,

i am wondering if anyone has suggestions for "penalizing"
organizations/persons
that insist on sending junk e-mails for things like minoxidil, arkansas
real estate,
or unsalted spam. the thing that pisses me off the most is the smug
attitude the
*e-mailers have regarding their craft.

For Example:

----------------------------------------------------------------
 To REMOVE yourself from further receiving new announncements and press
releases for cutting edge, ..., ad infinitum, ..., items,etc.), REMOVAL
INSTRUCTIONS AT END OF MESSAGE.
  ----------------------------------------------------------------
       WORLD'S LEADING TREATMENTS FOR THINNING HAIR

        blah blah blah....

        even more blah blah blah...

** here is the smug part >>

----------------------------------------------------------------
To keep up with the respect of internet users who wish their names removed

and type "remove" in the subject field or message body. It's that simple.
NOTE TO FLAMERS:DON'T DO IT! We will comply with and respect all REMOVE
requests, but if we are flamed we will (a) FLAME YOU 1000 times as much
(b)email to 3 million people a questionable item with your return email
address. We want respect
as much as anyone else, so if you give it, you shall receive it.
----------------------------------------------------------------

does anyone have experience or suggestions for penalizing this type of org?
i am considering scripting something (blat) that will send phantom e-mails
to these types of message spewers.

i really find this person's (a) and (b) threats really not too smart, since
a significant number of people didn't even want the damn thing in the first
place.

-kevin

 
 
 

junk e-mail messages!!

Post by Ketil Z Mald » Thu, 09 Jan 1997 04:00:00



> keep up with the respect of internet users who wish their names
> removed from Noci Marketing's emailing list, simply mail to:

> body. It's that simple.  NOTE TO FLAMERS:DON'T DO IT! We will comply
> with and respect all REMOVE requests, but if we are flamed we will (a)
> FLAME YOU 1000 times as much (b)email to 3 million people a
> questionable item with your return email address. We want respect as
> much as anyone else, so if you give it, you shall receive it.

God, that pisses me off!

They're pissing in my well, and threatening me so I won't try to stop
them.  Are these for real?

Quote:> does anyone have experience or suggestions for penalizing this type of
> org?  i am considering scripting something (blat) that will send
> phantom e-mails to these types of message spewers.

How about getting a whole bunch of people who reach their computer from
different routes to just ping them continuously?  Not a ping-of-death,
mind you, since that tends to crash routers and stuff along the way.
Just a regular, largish-packet ping, which, if enough people comply,
will drown their lines.

Then, of course, you can complain.  Start by complaining to

postmaster at the sites close to the offending one.  Use nslookup, and
complain to tech and adm contacts for the domains, and while you're at
it, complain to anyone running secondary DNSes, or otherwise involved.

Only remember, you're talking to people who don't have any direct blame
here, so make sure you keep it polite, pointing out that (in this case) the
offender is threatening to forge email with your name on it, and indeed
cause general havoc and sabotage should suffice.    In particular, some
ISPs and on-line services are taking steps to limit shit like this, make
sure you don't throw insults blindly.

If you're having a bad day, you can always mention that you'll discuss
this practice with your lawyer.  If they actually forge email in your
name, go talk to the police.  

Or, if you care to look at spam messages, they often don't have a net
address, only a phone number.  Or a fax.  Find somebody whose call is
local, and have them fax them something useless.  Tons of it.  Have
somebody else tie up their phone line for a week.  Everybody send a
dollar to the executor to cover expenses.

Expanding on this, you can always try to look up the company.  Find out
who's working there, and start calling them in the middle of night.
Sneak out to them and let the air out of their tyres in the morning.
Paint their house bright green and orange while they're on vacation.

Anyway,
~kzm

 
 
 

junk e-mail messages!!

Post by Ling Wan » Thu, 09 Jan 1997 04:00:00




> >hey,

> >i am wondering if anyone has suggestions for "penalizing"
> >organizations/persons
> >that insist on sending junk e-mails for things like minoxidil, arkansas
> >real estate,
> >or unsalted spam. the thing that pisses me off the most is the smug
> >attitude the
> >*e-mailers have regarding their craft.

> I am having the exact same problem.  There really IS no way to fight back,
> other than to examine the header, and send a correction email to the
> sender, and postmaster at every site you see in the header.

> >does anyone have experience or suggestions for penalizing this type of org?
> >i am considering scripting something (blat) that will send phantom e-mails
> >to these types of message spewers.

> I have done that many times, it doesn't work.  The senders of such spam

I had an instance where my reply to a message was crossposted
to some videogame group, and did the junk mail start coming in.

I now make sure my replies go to the proper newsgroup, and not
to the newsgroup that are heavily scanned by the junk mail
senders.

- Show quoted text -

Quote:> always do it under a fake ID, so it will just all bounce back to you.

 
 
 

junk e-mail messages!!

Post by Mark Dav » Thu, 09 Jan 1997 04:00:00



>hey,
>i am wondering if anyone has suggestions for "penalizing"
>organizations/persons
>that insist on sending junk e-mails for things like minoxidil, arkansas
>real estate,
>or unsalted spam. the thing that pisses me off the most is the smug
>attitude the
>*e-mailers have regarding their craft.

I am having the exact same problem.  There really IS no way to fight back,
other than to examine the header, and send a correction email to the
sender, and postmaster at every site you see in the header.

Quote:>does anyone have experience or suggestions for penalizing this type of org?
>i am considering scripting something (blat) that will send phantom e-mails
>to these types of message spewers.

I have done that many times, it doesn't work.  The senders of such spam
always do it under a fake ID, so it will just all bounce back to you.

--
  /--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
  | Mark A. Davis     | Lake Taylor Hospital | Norfolk,VA (757)-461-5001x431 |

  \--------------------------------------------------------------------------/

 
 
 

junk e-mail messages!!

Post by J.C. Archambe » Thu, 09 Jan 1997 04:00:00


:> i am wondering if anyone has suggestions for "penalizing"
:> organizations/persons that insist on sending junk e-mails for things
:> like minoxidil, arkansas real estate, or unsalted spam. the thing
:> that pisses me off the most is the smug attitude the *e-mailers
:> have regarding their craft.

: There are procedures in place to slow this activity; but everytime you
: catch one, another five crop up.  If you read the security advisories,
: you will find you are your own worst enemy.  Every time you visit a site
: using your web browser or perform anonymous ftp, you leave a calling
: card that says "Add me to your junkmail list."  The only suggestion I
: can make is to write a program that will analyse your incoming mail and
: reject anything you don't want to receive.  When you get the program
: done in 3-5 years time, the spammers will have another method to annoy
: you.  

That's what procmail is for.  http://www.veryComputer.com/
Some people use bogus e-mail addresses which make spam bounce.

: Am I saying just give up?  No way.  Your best defense is a good
: offense.  Track down the blighter and start forwarding the messages to
: his/her ISP, along with a message that you don't like such behaviour.
: After a while, the ISP will get the message and pull the plug.

The major ISPs such as MSN, Netcom and AOL take care of spammers.  My
local ISP that I subscribe to is starting to take a stand on it as
well.
--
/*                            | Spam violation - e-mail dumped...


*/

 
 
 

junk e-mail messages!!

Post by Michael Moh » Fri, 10 Jan 1997 04:00:00



> hey,

> i am wondering if anyone has suggestions for "penalizing"
> organizations/persons
> that insist on sending junk e-mails for things like minoxidil, arkansas
> real estate,
> or unsalted spam. the thing that pisses me off the most is the smug
> attitude the
> *e-mailers have regarding their craft.

--
There are procedures in place to slow this activity; but everytime you
catch one, another five crop up.  If you read the security advisories,
you will find you are your own worst enemy.  Every time you visit a site
using your web browser or perform anonymous ftp, you leave a calling
card that says "Add me to your junkmail list."  The only suggestion I
can make is to write a program that will analyse your incoming mail and
reject anything you don't want to receive.  When you get the program
done in 3-5 years time, the spammers will have another method to annoy
you.  

Am I saying just give up?  No way.  Your best defense is a good
offense.  Track down the blighter and start forwarding the messages to
his/her ISP, along with a message that you don't like such behaviour.
After a while, the ISP will get the message and pull the plug.
================================================================

Information Technology Group      === Phone: 64 9 307-9999 x8133
Auckland Institute of Technology  === Fax:   64 9 307-9901
PO Box 92006, Auckland, New Zealand =
http://www.veryComputer.com/
================================================================
If we have unlimited ability to think, why do we use computers?

 
 
 

junk e-mail messages!!

Post by Sherwood Botsfo » Fri, 10 Jan 1997 04:00:00


Time to change your mail transport agent.  A friend who runs another
domain here on campus picks up the weekly list from AOL of sites they
have problmes with, and in addition will add the site for any junk mail
received by anyone in his deaprtment.  He uses zmailer, and has set it
up so that his smtpserver rejects everything from any of the sites on
this list.  I'm looking right now at installing Exim as my MTU which
allows you to run incomming mail through an external filter -- which
could be procmail.  

--

Sherwood Botsford | "Go to father, she said, when I asked her to wed.
Physics Dept      | She knew that I knew that her father was dead.
U of Alberta      | She knew that I knew what a life he had led.
Edmonton, AB,     | She knew that I knew what she meant when she said,
T6G 2J1           | "Go to father."

 
 
 

junk e-mail messages!!

Post by Gregory Row » Fri, 10 Jan 1997 04:00:00



> hey,
> i am wondering if anyone has suggestions for "penalizing"
> organizations/persons

I haven't had much luck. My best choice is to stay off their lists, by using
false headers when i post things.  I'm not doing that right now, but i will
be doing that soon.  If you are using TIN, the following are env variables you
can set to anything you want:
ORGANIZATION
USER
NAME
REPLYTO

If you change REPLYTO, people will send email to that address.  So change it
to something different.  Don't be a* and set it to your friend's login.
But I suggest playing around with those variables and then posting something to
some junk newsgroup, then reading your own message back and see how those
changes affect what shows up.

> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> To keep up with the respect of internet users who wish their names removed

> and type "remove" in the subject field or message body. It's that simple.
> NOTE TO FLAMERS:DON'T DO IT! We will comply with and respect all REMOVE
> requests, but if we are flamed we will (a) FLAME YOU 1000 times as much
> (b)email to 3 million people a questionable item with your return email
> address. We want respect
> as much as anyone else, so if you give it, you shall receive it.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------

I got email from *promo about this message.  They said the company that did
the original post got their account revoked because of threatening email. That
was nice of *promo, but it still doesn't stop other companies from sending
you spam.  The best way is to just stay off their lists, by using the above
tricks to put bogus names.  These login names and stuff are scanned from any
newsgroup by automated programs, so put bogus stuff to just stay off those
lists.

GREG

 
 
 

junk e-mail messages!!

Post by Martin Hargreav » Fri, 10 Jan 1997 04:00:00



>hey,
>i am wondering if anyone has suggestions for "penalizing"
>organizations/persons
>that insist on sending junk e-mails for things like minoxidil, arkansas
>real estate,
>or unsalted spam. the thing that pisses me off the most is the smug
>attitude the
>*e-mailers have regarding their craft.
>For Example:

[snip]

>** here is the smug part >>
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>To keep up with the respect of internet users who wish their names removed

>and type "remove" in the subject field or message body. It's that simple.
>NOTE TO FLAMERS:DON'T DO IT! We will comply with and respect all REMOVE
>requests, but if we are flamed we will (a) FLAME YOU 1000 times as much
>(b)email to 3 million people a questionable item with your return email
>address. We want respect
>as much as anyone else, so if you give it, you shall receive it.
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>i really find this person's (a) and (b) threats really not too smart, since
>a significant number of people didn't even want the damn thing in the first
>place.

This is the part that gets me, about "respect". I didn't ask to be on
their mailing list and I don't see why I should take time out to get
off it again.

www.sendmail.org has various sendmail.cf rulesets to allow to keep a
list of spammers domains and have sendmail automatically refuse mail
from them. I just add the domain to /etc/spammers and never see mail
from them again. They get a "571 We don't accept junk mail from your
domain".

Took a few minutes and sendmail 8.8.4 for me.

Nuke 'em from orbit I say....

M.

###################################################################
#            Martin Hargreaves (Director/Consultant)              #
#       Datamodel Ltd - Open Systems Management and Security      #

###################################################################

 
 
 

junk e-mail messages!!

Post by Mark Alexand » Sat, 11 Jan 1997 04:00:00



>>>That he was really p-o'd about junk mail....

Visit the junk mail help desk:

         http://knet.flemingc.on.ca/~surly/junkmail.html

No graphics, no formatting, good information!

Mark

 
 
 

junk e-mail messages!!

Post by Fred Elb » Sun, 12 Jan 1997 04:00:00


FWIW, see signature for a good collection of info and links dealing
with spam:


--  How to eliminate junk mail and spam:
--      http://www.csn.net/~felbel/jnkmail.html

 
 
 

junk e-mail messages!!

Post by Joel Gar » Fri, 17 Jan 1997 04:00:00




>>hey,

>>i am wondering if anyone has suggestions for "penalizing"
>>organizations/persons
>>that insist on sending junk e-mails for things like minoxidil, arkansas
>>real estate,
>>or unsalted spam. the thing that pisses me off the most is the smug
>>attitude the
>>*e-mailers have regarding their craft.

>I am having the exact same problem.  There really IS no way to fight back,
>other than to examine the header, and send a correction email to the
>sender, and postmaster at every site you see in the header.

>>does anyone have experience or suggestions for penalizing this type of org?
>>i am considering scripting something (blat) that will send phantom e-mails
>>to these types of message spewers.

>I have done that many times, it doesn't work.  The senders of such spam
>always do it under a fake ID, so it will just all bounce back to you.

Or the innocent party whose ID they forged...

>--
>  /--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
>  | Mark A. Davis     | Lake Taylor Hospital | Norfolk,VA (757)-461-5001x431 |

>  \--------------------------------------------------------------------------/

--

These are my opinions, not necessarily those of Ross Systems, Inc.   <> <>
%DCL-W-SOFTONEDGEDONTPUSH, Software On Edge - Don't Push.            \ V /
panic: ifree: freeing free inodes...                                   O
 
 
 

junk e-mail messages!!

Post by Matthew Tove » Fri, 17 Jan 1997 04:00:00


Quote:> >>i am wondering if anyone has suggestions for "penalizing"
> >>organizations/persons
> >>that insist on sending junk e-mails for things like minoxidil, arkansas
> >>real estate,
> >>or unsalted spam. the thing that pisses me off the most is the smug
> >>attitude the
> >>*e-mailers have regarding their craft.

> >I am having the exact same problem.  There really IS no way to fight back,
> >other than to examine the header, and send a correction email to the
> >sender, and postmaster at every site you see in the header.

I agree - when I get Spam-mail, I return it to the sender, as well as
root and postmaster on the sender's machine. My hope is that other
people do the same and that the administrator of the machine will get
pissed enough to stop the offender.

That's assuming that the spammer isn't his own administrator!

Matt
--
Matt Tovey                              http://www.veryComputer.com/~mtovey

"The real difficulty in changing any enterprise lies not in developing
new
ideas, but in escaping from the old ones." --John Maynard Keynes

 
 
 

junk e-mail messages!!

Post by Steve Sha » Fri, 17 Jan 1997 04:00:00


: www.sendmail.org has various sendmail.cf rulesets to allow to keep a
: list of spammers domains and have sendmail automatically refuse mail
: from them. I just add the domain to /etc/spammers and never see mail
: from them again. They get a "571 We don't accept junk mail from your
: domain".

Can it be done by IP range? For example, the domain "bulk-e-mail.com"
probably owns a range of IP's. It would be slick if the denials
were done on that range regardless of the domain name itself.

--
_____________________________________________________________________________

http://www.cs.ucr.edu/~sshah  | Assistant Systems Administrator, Dept. of CS
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
             "I love a good flame war over breakfast." -M.W.

 
 
 

junk e-mail messages!!

Post by Steffen Ullric » Sat, 18 Jan 1997 04:00:00




> > hey,

> > i am wondering if anyone has suggestions for "penalizing"
> > organizations/persons

> I haven't had much luck. My best choice is to stay off their lists, by using
> false headers when i post things.  I'm not doing that right now, but i will
> be doing that soon.  If you are using TIN, the following are env variables you
> can set to anything you want:
> ORGANIZATION
> USER
> NAME:0
> REPLYTO

I don't know of any way to penalize these junk mailers, (flooding them
with mail
is not a solution - especially when the account is faked). My solution
is to
automatically filter them  out from my mail so I don't see their junk
and don't
get mad about it.
I'm using procmail with the following pattern:

:0

* !^From:.*(\.de|\.org|\.edu|latrade\.com|xensei\.com|internic\.net)
* !^TO.*(xensei\.com|latrade\.com)
* !^Subject: Re:
junk


from
trusted domains (e.g. .de,.org,.edu,latrade.com(my work),xensei.com
(private),
internic.net), everything which goes explicitly to my work and private
domains
(latrade.com and xensei.com) and everything which looks like a response
(Subject: Re:) is considered as ok, rest is junk.
I analyzed all the mail I got within the last 10month (over 3000
messages)
with this filter and found 90% of all junk mail (20messages), while not
considering
any important mail as junk.
The experience I made with the junk mailers is that they in most cases
use an alias
which resides on a remote machine so I consider everything which looks
like this
as junk. If you are subscribed to any mailing lists you should add them
of course
as trusted senders.

 
 
 

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Beta copies of DirectChoice (TM)  are now available at
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DirectChoice allows you to publish information to the users of your web site
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Category selection is all done through a web interface so users can easily
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We think this is real neat and very "net friendly"....but we want to know if
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If you have any problems getting the beta or need it for a different platform
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*** DIRECT EMAIL WITH FULL PERSONAL CHOICE ***

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Edwin Hastings                           Online Computer Market, Inc.

http://www.ocm.com                                (508) 651-0070 x252

  A premier provider of products and services for World Wide Web
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