Newbie is choosing tools - recommendations please?

Newbie is choosing tools - recommendations please?

Post by Michael Davi » Fri, 26 Feb 1999 04:00:00



Hi all,

I'm new to this newsgroup, and new to web servers.
But I'm not new to computers, I've been programming
with C++, Oracle and Solaris for a few years.

A friend of mine and I are interested in setting up
a web site for non-profit organizations. We'd like
to use free tools as much as possible.

I've been using Linux at home for a few months,
and I like it a lot. I also have started using PostgreSQL,
which I also like.

My first pick of tools would be Red Hat Linux, PostgreSQL
and Apache.

I'd like to use the Java Servlet module for Apache, for a couple
of reasons: I like progamming in Java, and I understand that
performance can be much better with servlets because they
can stay loaded over several requests, whereas the more
common CGI-Perl approach is slower because a new process
has to be started for each request.

Someone in another group said that PostgreSQL is a poor choice
for web servers because it can only handle one request at
a time. I though that it could handle several at a time.

This obviously is a big concern because we want to make sure,
from that start, that our system will scale well.

Am I on the right track here?

Thanks,

--
// Michael Davis -- Solaris code slave and happy Linux User.
//
// From sunny Toronto...

 
 
 

Newbie is choosing tools - recommendations please?

Post by Michael Davi » Fri, 26 Feb 1999 04:00:00




Quote:>Hi all,

>I'm new to this newsgroup, and new to web servers.
>But I'm not new to computers, I've been programming
>with C++, Oracle and Solaris for a few years.

>A friend of mine and I are interested in setting up
>a web site for non-profit organizations. We'd like
>to use free tools as much as possible.

Oh, another thing - my friend has been reading about
another free server called aolserver (yes, from you-know-who).

Any opinions of that?

Thanks

--
// Michael Davis -- Solaris code slave and happy Linux User.
//
// From sunny Toronto...

 
 
 

Newbie is choosing tools - recommendations please?

Post by Paul Everit » Fri, 26 Feb 1999 04:00:00



> I've been using Linux at home for a few months,
> and I like it a lot. I also have started using PostgreSQL,
> which I also like.

> My first pick of tools would be Red Hat Linux, PostgreSQL
> and Apache.

> I'd like to use the Java Servlet module for Apache, for a couple
> of reasons: I like progamming in Java, and I understand that
> performance can be much better with servlets because they
> can stay loaded over several requests, whereas the more
> common CGI-Perl approach is slower because a new process
> has to be started for each request.

There's another option you should take a look at: the free, Open
Source(tm) Zope web application server:

  http://www.zope.org/

The Zope server integrates with Apache and other web servers, but also
implements its own HTTP and FTP server internally.  You can connect to
Postgres or other databases, or you can take a look at its integrated
object database.  It's a new and exciting way to manage content for
folks with a deep, deep appreciation for object orientation.

Quote:> Someone in another group said that PostgreSQL is a poor choice
> for web servers because it can only handle one request at
> a time. I though that it could handle several at a time.

...and MySQL is a poor choice because it doesn't do transactions.  Sigh.

--Paul

 
 
 

Newbie is choosing tools - recommendations please?

Post by Michael Davi » Sat, 27 Feb 1999 04:00:00







> > >Hi all,

> > >I'm new to this newsgroup, and new to web servers.
> > >But I'm not new to computers, I've been programming
> > >with C++, Oracle and Solaris for a few years.

> > >A friend of mine and I are interested in setting up
> > >a web site for non-profit organizations. We'd like
> > >to use free tools as much as possible.

> > Oh, another thing - my friend has been reading about
> > another free server called aolserver (yes, from you-know-who).

> Funny, I just responded to your previous post.

> From what I understand, it wasn't developed by AOL in-house. It used to be
> developed by NaviSoft (which is why all the calls in the API start with "ns_")
> before AOL bought NaviSoft.

> > Any opinions of that?

> I recommend AOLServer wholeheartedly. It's first class work. I'm pretty much
> trying to duplicate Philip Greenspun's (http://photo.net and
> http://www.greenspun.com) work on it on a Linux box and PostgreSQL (until we
> get around to installing the Oracle CD we have).

Thanks, Brian.
My friend had given me the link to Philip Greenspun's page, and that was
enough
to make me visit the aolserver page. I was very impressed, especially to
the
attention given to using memory-mapped files to speed things up (which
was
mentioned on Philip's page). I also like the fact that they have some,
albeit
unsupported, support :-s for PostgreSQL. I started to download the file,
but Netscape under Linux reported that after downloading about 1.5MB, it
had got only 1%. So I'm going to wait till the weekend to download it,
if
it's  really 150MB.  Last night I downloaded the most recent version of
Apache,
and it was only 1.3MB for the tar-gzip.

So I guess the next step for me is to learn tcl, to do the add-ons. And
as
a professional C/C++ cowhand, the idea of writing C to do customizations
isn't
too daunting...

As far as the Oracle thing goes, it's really too bad that they're only
giving
away the Solaris and NT versions of Oracle 8i right now. Why not Linux?

Michael Davis

 
 
 

Newbie is choosing tools - recommendations please?

Post by Michael Davi » Sat, 27 Feb 1999 04:00:00



> There's another option you should take a look at: the free, Open
> Source(tm) Zope web application server:

>   http://www.zope.org/

> The Zope server integrates with Apache and other web servers, but also
> implements its own HTTP and FTP server internally.  You can connect to
> Postgres or other databases, or you can take a look at its integrated
> object database.  It's a new and exciting way to manage content for
> folks with a deep, deep appreciation for object orientation.

> > Someone in another group said that PostgreSQL is a poor choice
> > for web servers because it can only handle one request at
> > a time. I though that it could handle several at a time.

> ...and MySQL is a poor choice because it doesn't do transactions.  Sigh.

> --Paul

Thanks.

I had a quick look at the web site, and it looks interesting.
As far as MySQL goes, I had looked at that too before settling on
PostgreSQL,
and had rejected it it because it lacks transaction support.
From what I read, PostgreSQL does in fact support several  queries at
once,
and there's something on their web site saying they now do it better
than
anyone else, by making it so that if someone opens a record for update,
other users can still read the old contents of the record before the
first
user commits it. (Forgive me if this is a foggy interpretation, it's
late...)
And the last time I tried that with Oracle, which I use at work, the
second
user was blocked until the first user committed. PostgreSQL claims to be
the first to do this ( or the first to do whatever else it is if I've
misinterpreted it ).

 
 
 

Newbie is choosing tools - recommendations please?

Post by David N. Welt » Sat, 27 Feb 1999 04:00:00



>> My friend had given me the link to Philip Greenspun's page, and
>> that was enough to make me visit the aolserver page. I was very
>> impressed, especially to the attention given to using memory-mapped
>> files to speed things up (which was mentioned on Philip's page).

If you like the idea of server parsed Tcl, you might check out
mod_dtcl, an Open Source implementation of this idea that works as an
Apache module.  More information at http://comanche.com.dtu.dk/dave/.
It's still a beta-ish product, but there seems to be a fair amount of
interest, as it's the only Open Source server parsed Tcl
implementation.

Quote:>> I also like the fact that they have some, albeit unsupported,
>> support :-s for PostgreSQL. I started to download the file, but

I have used mod_dtcl with Postgresql, and I can tell you that it works
pretty well:->

Ciao,
--
David Welton

415-395-7805 x4150

 
 
 

Newbie is choosing tools - recommendations please?

Post by Michael Davi » Sun, 28 Feb 1999 04:00:00



> My friend had given me the link to Philip Greenspun's page, and that was
> enough
> to make me visit the aolserver page. I was very impressed, especially to
> the
> attention given to using memory-mapped files to speed things up (which
> was
> mentioned on Philip's page). I also like the fact that they have some,
> albeit
> unsupported, support :-s for PostgreSQL. I started to download the file,
> but Netscape under Linux reported that after downloading about 1.5MB, it
> had got only 1%. So I'm going to wait till the weekend to download it,
> if
> it's  really 150MB.  Last night I downloaded the most recent version of
> Apache,
> and it was only 1.3MB for the tar-gzip.

Sorry for the confusion. I checked again, and it's 2.7 MB.
I'll try it out tonight.

Michael

 
 
 

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