serverless backup

serverless backup

Post by lolive » Sun, 21 Oct 2001 13:39:05



Folks,
IHAC who has two AIX servers connected point-to-point to an HDS 9960.  They
don't want to implement a fabric SAN because they believe that adding
switches to the configuration would introduce points of failure.  They did
mention that they wanted to eventually do server-less backup of the current
DAS server configuration.  Is this possible?  My thinking is that the AIX
servers and storage would need to be connected to a fabric in order to take
advantage of this functionality.  Can anyone comment on this or tell me if
my assumptions are wrong?

Thanks,
LO

 
 
 

serverless backup

Post by Jean Dio » Mon, 22 Oct 2001 00:28:11



Quote:> Folks,
> IHAC who has two AIX servers connected point-to-point to an HDS 9960.
They
> don't want to implement a fabric SAN because they believe that adding
> switches to the configuration would introduce points of failure.  They did
> mention that they wanted to eventually do server-less backup of the
current
> DAS server configuration.  Is this possible?  My thinking is that the AIX
> servers and storage would need to be connected to a fabric in order to
take
> advantage of this functionality.  Can anyone comment on this or tell me if
> my assumptions are wrong?

> Thanks,
> LO

Serverless is still a year or two away from been releiable or very popular
(debugged).  Most implementations are still lab type or semi-productions.
Most of them are facing restore issues (time and number of media required).
For very small backup size it will makes sense (less than 100GB) but for
very large datacenter (few TB) than it's a different picture.  I do not see
*any* serverless implentation  since it's been around (more than 70
customers with SAN and TB of data).  Most of them are telling me they are
not confortable with the solution and require maturity before they will
implement this.  Also, it still require a server somewhere in the
config...(hummm...serverless...).

Backup software vendors were pitching this capability very loud few months
ago but remain very very quiet today about it.  Maybe they discover
something they didn't anticipate...backup are done because we need restore.

Hardware vendors such as Brocade and StorageTek are planning TRUE serverless
backup.  The Brocade switch 12000 will provide internal services as well as
StorageTek SN-6000.  Still months if not a year away.

If they plan to add storage or fibre channel tape then switches is a must.
Two switches are require for fault tolerant config. Switch and Bride/router
for tape drive are also required for Serverless backup.  Only the new
bridge/router support a new scsi command for serverless.

I hope this help.

Jean Dion Tools & Programs
http://pages.infinit.net/dbtek/

 
 
 

serverless backup

Post by Roger Hinso » Mon, 22 Oct 2001 14:17:00


    Hey,

    I've only used server-less backup with the EDM product from EMC on a
Symmetrix, but it is able to plug directly into the Symmetrix and perform
serverless backup.  It works with several OSs and database configurations.

    Roger


Quote:> Folks,
> IHAC who has two AIX servers connected point-to-point to an HDS 9960.
They
> don't want to implement a fabric SAN because they believe that adding
> switches to the configuration would introduce points of failure.  They did
> mention that they wanted to eventually do server-less backup of the
current
> DAS server configuration.  Is this possible?  My thinking is that the AIX
> servers and storage would need to be connected to a fabric in order to
take
> advantage of this functionality.  Can anyone comment on this or tell me if
> my assumptions are wrong?

> Thanks,
> LO

 
 
 

serverless backup

Post by Prostora » Wed, 24 Oct 2001 00:20:10


my guess is that what you are doing is "LAN free", NOT serverless backup
still a good thing though

  _____                         .     .
 '    \\                  .                .                       |>>
     O//             .                        .                    |
    \_\          .                              .                  |
    | |      .                                    .      .         |

  /  .|         310-544-9439 / 310-544-9309 fax     . .      .     |
 / .  |        www.geocities.com/scsiperipherals/    .        .  . o
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Authorized - DIRECT VAR/VAD/Distributor for new SCSI/FC-AL peripherals
from:  IBM, Seagate, Quantum, NAS / SAN / RAID, QLogic, HDS, ATL, ect.



>    Hey,

>    I've only used server-less backup with the EDM product from EMC on a
>Symmetrix, but it is able to plug directly into the Symmetrix and perform
>serverless backup.  It works with several OSs and database configurations.

>    Roger



>> Folks,
>> IHAC who has two AIX servers connected point-to-point to an HDS 9960.
>They
>> don't want to implement a fabric SAN because they believe that adding
>> switches to the configuration would introduce points of failure.  They
did
>> mention that they wanted to eventually do server-less backup of the
>current
>> DAS server configuration.  Is this possible?  My thinking is that the AIX
>> servers and storage would need to be connected to a fabric in order to
>take
>> advantage of this functionality.  Can anyone comment on this or tell me
if
>> my assumptions are wrong?

>> Thanks,
>> LO

--
  _____                         .     .
 '    \\                  .                .                       |>>
     O//             .                        .                    |
    \_\          .                              .                  |
    | |      .                                    .      .         |

  /  .|         310-544-9439 / 310-544-9309 fax     . .      .     |
 / .  |        www.geocities.com/scsiperipherals/    .        .  . o
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Authorized - DIRECT VAR/VAD/Distributor for new SCSI/FC-AL peripherals
from:  IBM, Seagate, Quantum, NAS / SAN / RAID, QLogic, HDS, ATL, ect.
 
 
 

serverless backup

Post by Shawn Barnhar » Wed, 24 Oct 2001 02:06:30



Quote:> Serverless is still a year or two away from been releiable or very popular
> (debugged).  Most implementations are still lab type or semi-productions.
> Most of them are facing restore issues (time and number of media
required).
> For very small backup size it will makes sense (less than 100GB) but for
> very large datacenter (few TB) than it's a different picture.  I do not
see
> *any* serverless implentation  since it's been around (more than 70
> customers with SAN and TB of data).  Most of them are telling me they are
> not confortable with the solution and require maturity before they will
> implement this.  Also, it still require a server somewhere in the
> config...(hummm...serverless...).

How about tapeless backup?  I was at Xiotech and they were half-pitching the
ability to do hot copies in their Magnitude storage system from a RAID-5 set
to a RAID-0 set.  You can't beat it for speed, and with 160GB drives you
can't really complain about the storage, either.  The drives were probably
more expensive on a per-GB basis than tape, but it wasn't huge differential.

It's not an archival solution, but certainly good for periodic backups that
need to go offsite.  The element they seemed to be missing was
journaling/incremental copies, but they claimed that this was something that
was being worked out in development.

If they can get the incremental thing worked out, I could see ditching tape
around here permanently for backups.  Again, probably too expensive for
archival, but its dead-simple -- LAN-less, server-less, tapeless,
backup-software-less.

 
 
 

serverless backup

Post by Vikas Deolalike » Thu, 25 Oct 2001 14:08:11


LO,

THe HDS 9960 has an embedded switch in it. So you do have a fabric, it is
just not visible. I believe the 9960 has 32 FC ports. If you want to do a
server less backup, you will need to get the software from HDS which enables
backup of data without using the CPU on the server. That way you can have
serverless backup without the switch (external switch). If HDS does not
support serverless backup, you can't do it. I believe HDS does.

Vikas


Quote:> Folks,
> IHAC who has two AIX servers connected point-to-point to an HDS 9960.
They
> don't want to implement a fabric SAN because they believe that adding
> switches to the configuration would introduce points of failure.  They did
> mention that they wanted to eventually do server-less backup of the
current
> DAS server configuration.  Is this possible?  My thinking is that the AIX
> servers and storage would need to be connected to a fabric in order to
take
> advantage of this functionality.  Can anyone comment on this or tell me if
> my assumptions are wrong?

> Thanks,
> LO

 
 
 

serverless backup

Post by Roger Hinso » Thu, 25 Oct 2001 16:37:53


    Actually, there were two methods of backup, one was lan-less where the
host would process the information but send it back down the channel ratheer
than down the ethernet connection.  The other method was server-less where
the disks to be backed up were directly mounted to the backup server during
the backup.  The mounted disks could be the original volumes, although that
would stop the original host from using those disks, the usual method was to
create a business continuance copy of the production volumes and then mount
them to the backup server.  I've been using and implementing it for several
years.

    Roger


> my guess is that what you are doing is "LAN free", NOT serverless backup
> still a good thing though

>   _____                         .     .
>  '    \\                  .                .                       |>>
>      O//             .                        .                    |
>     \_\          .                              .                  |
>     | |      .                                    .      .         |

>   /  .|         310-544-9439 / 310-544-9309 fax     . .      .     |
>  / .  |        www.geocities.com/scsiperipherals/    .        .  . o
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Authorized - DIRECT VAR/VAD/Distributor for new SCSI/FC-AL peripherals
> from:  IBM, Seagate, Quantum, NAS / SAN / RAID, QLogic, HDS, ATL, ect.



> >    Hey,

> >    I've only used server-less backup with the EDM product from EMC on a
> >Symmetrix, but it is able to plug directly into the Symmetrix and perform
> >serverless backup.  It works with several OSs and database
configurations.

> >    Roger



> >> Folks,
> >> IHAC who has two AIX servers connected point-to-point to an HDS 9960.
> >They
> >> don't want to implement a fabric SAN because they believe that adding
> >> switches to the configuration would introduce points of failure.  They
> did
> >> mention that they wanted to eventually do server-less backup of the
> >current
> >> DAS server configuration.  Is this possible?  My thinking is that the
AIX
> >> servers and storage would need to be connected to a fabric in order to
> >take
> >> advantage of this functionality.  Can anyone comment on this or tell me
> if
> >> my assumptions are wrong?

> >> Thanks,
> >> LO

> --
>   _____                         .     .
>  '    \\                  .                .                       |>>
>      O//             .                        .                    |
>     \_\          .                              .                  |
>     | |      .                                    .      .         |

>   /  .|         310-544-9439 / 310-544-9309 fax     . .      .     |
>  / .  |        www.geocities.com/scsiperipherals/    .        .  . o
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Authorized - DIRECT VAR/VAD/Distributor for new SCSI/FC-AL peripherals
> from:  IBM, Seagate, Quantum, NAS / SAN / RAID, QLogic, HDS, ATL, ect.

 
 
 

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