unix on a normal machine

unix on a normal machine

Post by Jason » Mon, 26 Jan 1998 04:00:00




>An example of how easy it is to* up follows:
>I was listing /bin whilst installing some software and typed
>ls -l > more as opposed to ls | more. Now, having just taken over the
>sys admin of our workstations, I had root status and, of course, now
>have no root command. Needless to say they are all have access modes of
>555 now! Imagine my dismay upon searching our DAT drive to find that the
>/bin directory had never been backed up! I am running IRIX 6.2 on an SGI
>r5000 if anyone has any useful tips on how to get a new command...

ftp://prep.ai.mit.edu/pub/gnu/

There are various versions of the 'less' command there (better than
'more', IMHO).  Obviously you'll have to compile it.

Why is 'more' in /bin anyway?  Shouldn't it be in /usr/bin?

 
 
 

unix on a normal machine

Post by Aaron R Kulki » Tue, 27 Jan 1998 04:00:00





> >> >>Will I be able to use unix without getting a computer science degree?

> >You don't even need a high school degree.

> >> The key to learning UNIX is persistence ("ok, now if I just pipe THAT
> >> thru 'awk' first, and then pass THAT as arguments to csh ..."),

> >Complicated, ain't it?

> Not always complicated, no. But neither is it obvious. That's why
> persistence is needed.

Gack!  To massage dataset X in some way to produced output Y, you
have to do Proc1 then Proc2 then Proc3... etc.  Pipes don't make
any difference in the logic, because you still do proc1, 2, 3 ...n
in the same order.

You can *still* do it the old way that all the other OS's
do it: put the output into a temp file, then have the next prog
in your script read the tempfile--output to tempfile2..next process
reads tempfile2, outputs to tempfile3...

... it's the same kind of thinking either way.

Either you *have* the mental ability to decide what you
want to do, or you don't.  Piping just makes it easier,
in that all the processes can run simultaneously (so, you
can get immediate output from a long-term data-collection
process, for example), and also means that you're not having
to reserve diskspace for HUGE tempfiles (if intermediate results
produce lots of data), because down-stream processes are eating
up the data as soon as it is produced (if not, the upstream process
waits until the downstream process reads more junk out of the
pipe.)

- Show quoted text -

Quote:

> >> humility ("well obviously the programmer who wrote tar is far smarter
> >> than I, so I guess there really is no reason to warn me that I am
> >> about to accidentally WRITE over a tar file that already exists
> >> instead of READing it, cuz I fumbled the c and x flags"), and the

> >The difference between reading and writing files is pretty
> >tough for you, ain't it?

> Not at all. But my fingers don't always type what my brain told them
> to type. Why is it so hard to fix freaking tar so I can't shoot myself
> like this? The first obstalce is demonstrated eloquently in your
> reply, in that the general feeling is "you must be really stupid if
> you make that mistake". No, just unlucky. Or tired that day. Or
> whatever.

So, get some self-discipline an read the command line before you
hit return...by your thinking, I get in trouble all the time by
hitting the "OK" button before reading the confirmation dialogue
window.

Get a life.

> I imagine you disabled all the safeties on your guns at home on the
> same principle.
> Mark Landin

> You never read this, and I was never here.

> "Before anyone passes judgment ... remember, we *are* in
> the Arctic" .. Fox Mulder (prior to a physical exam)

--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Administrator

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
I speak for me, not my employer
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unix on a normal machine

Post by Aaron R Kulki » Tue, 27 Jan 1998 04:00:00






> > >> What's <<really>> complex is learning Win95 without any printed manuals
> > >> or any meaningful help system, in contrast to unix.

> > >I believe that difficulty in learning without a good manual applies to every
> > >OS, including (and particular to) Unix.  I'd add "in particular" because of
> > >the funny annoying differences found between different flavours of Unix.

> >       Are you suggesting that Windows 3.1, Workgroups 3.11, Windows 95,
> >       Windows NT 3.51 and NT 4.0 are alike? There's more difference

>   I tend in general to ignore "PC" operating systems, so I was NOT making
>   that suggestion. I was comparing with old good operating systems like
>   VM/CMS, PDP RSX 11, HP RTE, VAX VMS ...

> > >Also I would not call "man pages" a particularly good (nor a particularly bad)
> > >help system. But e.g. VM/CMS or VMS help were better.

> >       UNIX documentation has never been limited to "man pages". Even back
> >       to Version VII days our systems were delivered with notebooks full

>    "even back to", but not necessarily now. We got our first Sun with a
>    shelf full of docs, but now to go to Solaris we had to order them
>    separately ... do you really expect one can do a sensible administration
>    of the migration without any manual ?

The reason is this: (and this defends M$ as well as all the other
vendors...) If you order 200 workstations, do you really want
200 sets of manuals for your site?????

I sincerely doubt it.  Especially if most of the seats are for some
people running some speciallized app (like 3-D CAD software, etc),
and who never see a command line prompt to begin with.  (Honestly,
under CDE, the typical workplace user is more insulated from the
core OS than Windows users...)

--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Administrator

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
I speak for me, not my employer
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

 
 
 

unix on a normal machine

Post by Raymond N Shwa » Wed, 28 Jan 1998 04:00:00



Quote:>The reason is this: (and this defends M$ as well as all the other
>vendors...) If you order 200 workstations, do you really want
>200 sets of manuals for your site?????

        Not so long ago, one might purchase MS DOS for $60 or less and get
a respectable manual with it. Today you spend $200+ for NT Workstation,
get a piddling Installation booklet and floppies/CD-ROM, then spend another
$60 bucks for the Resource Kit. If I'm buying 200 "seat" licenses to Office97
those seats want essential manuals.

Quote:>I sincerely doubt it.  Especially if most of the seats are for some
>people running some speciallized app (like 3-D CAD software, etc),
>and who never see a command line prompt to begin with.  (Honestly,
>under CDE, the typical workplace user is more insulated from the
>core OS than Windows users...)

        ... only if he/she wants to be.

Quote:>Aaron R. Kulkis
>Unix Systems Administrator

        Raymond Shwake
        UNIX/Network Administrator
 
 
 

unix on a normal machine

Post by Raymond N Shwa » Wed, 28 Jan 1998 04:00:00




>> I am curious, as a johnny come lately, ...... what IS the
>> real unix these days, and who actually HAS the source to it?
>> How does one get a license for it at the source level (edu discount)?
>> What machines does it run on?
>As I recall, Novell bought UNIX System Labs (USL) from AT&T in December
>of 1992 (http://www.att.com/press/1092/921029.ula.html).  Then, Novell
>resold USL to HP.  HP is now the holder of the UNIX (as much as there is
>one).  HP and SCO are hard at work on something called Summit3D, the
>next generation 64-bit UNIX to run on Merced IA-64 (at least, that's the
>last I could find on HP's web site).

        Not quite. Novell sold USL and associated intellectual property
to *Santa Cruz Operations*. SCO and HP did, indeed, work together on Gemini
and 3D, but that relationship soured after Hewlett Packard chose to embrace
Windows NT as its alternative server offering (the primary being HP/UX).
Sun purchased an unencumbered license to UNIX based on SVr4, so it no
longer pays SCO royalties for Solaris.
 
 
 

unix on a normal machine

Post by Aliyar Balikc » Wed, 28 Jan 1998 04:00:00


   I am a student and want to get many information as much as
possible about UNIX
  And I WANT TO KNOW THAT WHAT ADVANTAGES UNIX HAVE OVER WIN NT OR WIN NT
OVER UNIX

       IF YOU OFFER ME A GOOD BOOK FOR UNIX
                       YOU MAKE ME HAPPY
                               GOOD DAYS
                                    TAKE CARE YOURSELF

 
 
 

unix on a normal machine

Post by Aaron R Kulki » Wed, 28 Jan 1998 04:00:00



>    I am a student and want to get many information as much as
> possible about UNIX
>   And I WANT TO KNOW THAT WHAT ADVANTAGES UNIX HAVE OVER WIN NT OR WIN NT
> OVER UNIX

>        IF YOU OFFER ME A GOOD BOOK FOR UNIX
>                        YOU MAKE ME HAPPY
>                                GOOD DAYS
>                                     TAKE CARE YOURSELF

This doesn't really do a point-by-point comparison, but, if
you can't see the true BEAUTY of the design by the time you're
done with this book, there's no helpin' ya anyways...

The Design of the Unix Operating System
Author: Bach
Publisher, is Prentice-Hall if I remember properly
Should be available at most bookstores that serve a
college with a high-speed CS department, and I've also
seen it at Barnes & Noble.

--

Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Administrator

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
I speak for me, not my employer
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

 
 
 

unix on a normal machine

Post by bogs.. » Thu, 29 Jan 1998 04:00:00









>The reason is this: (and this defends M$ as well as all the other
>vendors...) If you order 200 workstations, do you really want
>200 sets of manuals for your site?????

>I sincerely doubt it.  ...

        I've seen this argument before and sometimes you might be right.
However, other times the customer might want the manual.  The solution is to
include a postage paid card in the box which the customer can fill out and
mail in to get a copy of the manual.

Advantages:

1. PowerUsers (who always want the manuals :-) register their product.
Company knows who to direct market the next upgrade to.  Who to call when
looking for beta testers, etc.

2. Trees are killed only when someone actually wants it.

Disadvantage:

1. Company has to actually write a manual.

2. Company can't get into the publishing business and sell what should have
been the standard documentation at a hefty profit.

        When I was buying HP laser printers some years ago, I actually saw
this in action.  I've never seen this done for a purely software product.

                                Bill Bogstad

 
 
 

unix on a normal machine

Post by Warren B. Foc » Wed, 04 Feb 1998 04:00:00



Quote:>Download and install less, which does everything more does.

Except leave the text on the screen when you exit.
Or scroll text into the scrollback buffer instead of redrawing the
screen.
Or work with files in /proc on linux.

Bleah.

Warren Focke

 
 
 

unix on a normal machine

Post by Alan Shutk » Wed, 04 Feb 1998 04:00:00


W> Except leave the text on the screen when you exit.  Or scroll text
W> into the scrollback buffer instead of redrawing the screen.  Or
W> work with files in /proc on linux.

Since this is comp.unix.user-friendly, I won't berate you for not
reading the manual.  I will, however, tell you that you're completely
wrong.

First, without any options, I was just able to 'less /proc/cpuinfo'.  

Second, leaving the text on the screen when you exit is only a concern
on xterms, since their term initialization pops you into the alternate
screen, or whatever it's called.  less -X stops that.

Third, as for scrolling it into the scrollback, -X also lets that
happen.

All these options can be set in an environment variable so that you
don't have to type them each time.

In other words, download and install less, which does everything more
does.  8^)

--

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