FreeBSD and qmail

FreeBSD and qmail

Post by Bart Hubbar » Sun, 27 Jan 2002 03:17:48



I want to setup a server to run FreeBSD and qmail to work as an email
server. We purchased the hardware with the intent to run MS Exchange, but I
don't want to do that.  Does anybody know if I still need to have two
machines to run an email server like in the Exchange model? Or can I run
FreeBSD and qmail on one server and accomplish the same goal? Any help would
be appreciated.

Bart

 
 
 

FreeBSD and qmail

Post by Chuck Swige » Sun, 27 Jan 2002 05:18:53



> Does anybody know if I still need to have two machines to run an email
> server like in the Exchange model? Or can I run FreeBSD and qmail on one
> server and accomplish the same goal? Any help would be appreciated.

I'm not familiar with what "the Exchange model" is or why it would need two
machines, but you can certainly run a mail server off of a single FreeBSD
machine.

-Chuck


       -------------+-------------------+-----------------------------------
       "The human race's favorite method for being in control of the facts
        is to ignore them."  -Celia Green

 
 
 

FreeBSD and qmail

Post by Bart Hubbar » Sun, 27 Jan 2002 05:56:56


Thanks for the answer. Sorry about the vagueness, let me clarify. The MS
model needs to create a Domain. In the domain there has to be a controller
and a slave. The mail serving software runs on the slave. It has to do with
the microsoft active directory structure. I don't really know much about it
other than that.

I helped to set up qmail on a redhat box before, but in this instance I have
to migrate over an existing email server from Microsoft Commercial Internet
System HTML Mail to the qmail I'm going to set up. I don't really know how

working with the company on that, but I don't even know where to look for
email migration tips. This is really a set of newbie questions. I'm not even
sure where to begin looking for answers.  Any clues are appreciated. Thanks.

Bart



> > Does anybody know if I still need to have two machines to run an email
> > server like in the Exchange model? Or can I run FreeBSD and qmail on one
> > server and accomplish the same goal? Any help would be appreciated.

> I'm not familiar with what "the Exchange model" is or why it would need
two
> machines, but you can certainly run a mail server off of a single FreeBSD
> machine.

> -Chuck


us.
>        -------------+-------------------+---------------------------------
--
>        "The human race's favorite method for being in control of the facts
>         is to ignore them."  -Celia Green

 
 
 

FreeBSD and qmail

Post by Steve Burt » Sun, 27 Jan 2002 06:55:48


Hi.

you have to use a lot more than qmail to replace exchange. Exchange is
not an MTA but a data base with email and calendaring applications
stuck to it. I have read (but can't remember where) of a product which
replaces certain MS outlook DLLs and allows oulook to work with unix
systems. Or perhaps Oracle 9i which can do the same job.

I administer an exchange organisation running Exchange 5.5 on WinNT4
so I don't know about AD but in WinNT it is certainly possible to eun
one server to be the PDC (domain controller) and an exchange server.
Not necessarily recommended but possible...

Steve.
On Fri, 25 Jan 2002 12:56:56 -0800, "Bart Hubbard"


>Thanks for the answer. Sorry about the vagueness, let me clarify. The MS
>model needs to create a Domain. In the domain there has to be a controller
>and a slave. The mail serving software runs on the slave. It has to do with
>the microsoft active directory structure. I don't really know much about it
>other than that.

>I helped to set up qmail on a redhat box before, but in this instance I have
>to migrate over an existing email server from Microsoft Commercial Internet
>System HTML Mail to the qmail I'm going to set up. I don't really know how

>working with the company on that, but I don't even know where to look for
>email migration tips. This is really a set of newbie questions. I'm not even
>sure where to begin looking for answers.  Any clues are appreciated. Thanks.

>Bart




>> > Does anybody know if I still need to have two machines to run an email
>> > server like in the Exchange model? Or can I run FreeBSD and qmail on one
>> > server and accomplish the same goal? Any help would be appreciated.

>> I'm not familiar with what "the Exchange model" is or why it would need
>two
>> machines, but you can certainly run a mail server off of a single FreeBSD
>> machine.

>> -Chuck


>us.
>>        -------------+-------------------+---------------------------------
>--
>>        "The human race's favorite method for being in control of the facts
>>         is to ignore them."  -Celia Green

 
 
 

FreeBSD and qmail

Post by Bart Hubbar » Sun, 27 Jan 2002 07:29:42


Thanks for the tip on Exchange, the documentation led me to believe that you
could do it on one machine, but it always recommended 2.

Right now the email server in place is only holding an address book and some
saved mail. There is no calendering being done, at least nothing available
to our users. I want to set up a web based email interface for the migrated
system. The qmail that I'd worked with in the past had that capability.
However that may have been an add on. The interface is nearly identical in
both the existing ms web based email and the qmail that was on the redhat
box. So I think that it would work and be somewhat transparent to the users.

Is this assumption wrong? I'm trying to work out a solution for the company
that is less expensive than would be the cost of using Exchange, hence
FreeBSD and qmail. Thanks again.


> Hi.

> you have to use a lot more than qmail to replace exchange. Exchange is
> not an MTA but a data base with email and calendaring applications
> stuck to it. I have read (but can't remember where) of a product which
> replaces certain MS outlook DLLs and allows oulook to work with unix
> systems. Or perhaps Oracle 9i which can do the same job.

> I administer an exchange organisation running Exchange 5.5 on WinNT4
> so I don't know about AD but in WinNT it is certainly possible to eun
> one server to be the PDC (domain controller) and an exchange server.
> Not necessarily recommended but possible...

> Steve.
> On Fri, 25 Jan 2002 12:56:56 -0800, "Bart Hubbard"

> >Thanks for the answer. Sorry about the vagueness, let me clarify. The MS
> >model needs to create a Domain. In the domain there has to be a
controller
> >and a slave. The mail serving software runs on the slave. It has to do
with
> >the microsoft active directory structure. I don't really know much about
it
> >other than that.

> >I helped to set up qmail on a redhat box before, but in this instance I
have
> >to migrate over an existing email server from Microsoft Commercial
Internet
> >System HTML Mail to the qmail I'm going to set up. I don't really know
how

> >working with the company on that, but I don't even know where to look for
> >email migration tips. This is really a set of newbie questions. I'm not
even
> >sure where to begin looking for answers.  Any clues are appreciated.
Thanks.

> >Bart




> >> > Does anybody know if I still need to have two machines to run an
email
> >> > server like in the Exchange model? Or can I run FreeBSD and qmail on
one
> >> > server and accomplish the same goal? Any help would be appreciated.

> >> I'm not familiar with what "the Exchange model" is or why it would need
> >two
> >> machines, but you can certainly run a mail server off of a single
FreeBSD
> >> machine.

> >> -Chuck


to
> >us.

   -------------+-------------------+---------------------------------

- Show quoted text -

Quote:> >--
> >>        "The human race's favorite method for being in control of the
facts
> >>         is to ignore them."  -Celia Green

 
 
 

FreeBSD and qmail

Post by Andreas Wollschlaege » Sun, 27 Jan 2002 07:34:02



> Thanks for the answer. Sorry about the vagueness, let me clarify. The MS
> model needs to create a Domain. In the domain there has to be a controller
> and a slave. The mail serving software runs on the slave. It has to do
> with the microsoft active directory structure. I don't really know much
> about it other than that.

Well, err this clarification adds even more confusion: Does "Domain" mean
an "NT Domain" or an internet domain "foobar.com"? And what does "master"
and "slave" mean? Something like "Primary Domain Controller" and "Member
Server in that Domain" ?

> I helped to set up qmail on a redhat box before, but in this instance I
> have to migrate over an existing email server from Microsoft Commercial
> Internet System HTML Mail to the qmail I'm going to set up. I don't really

> will be working with the company on that, but I don't even know where to
> look for email migration tips. This is really a set of newbie questions.

Is it about replacing an existing Exchange server for an certain internet
domain, i.e. the POP3 and SMTP functionality? Or a complete replacement of
an Exchange server (perhaps impossible, as Exchange is quite a complex
beast)? Migrating the user accounts from Exchange/AD to qmail (I guess this
can be done with some Visual Borsig and perl scripts)?

Quote:> I'm not even
> sure where to begin looking for answers.  Any clues are appreciated.
> Thanks.

Thou shalt ask the righte questions and answers will be given tho thou...
(Sorry, had a beer already ;-)

Greetings
Andreas

--
/toe/ff

f/uss.
de//

 
 
 

FreeBSD and qmail

Post by Bart Hubbar » Sun, 27 Jan 2002 08:25:53


I'm sort of figuring out the picture and learning as I go along and I think
this is what I'm trying to get at:

I want to use qmail to replace an Exchange server for an internet domain so
as to replace POP3 and SMTP functionality. Using FreeBSD and qmail is it
necessary to have a Primary Domain Controller and a Member Server in that
domain? We have about 7 thousand users, hence accounts to transfer. Does
this seem feasible? Thanks.

Bart



> > Thanks for the answer. Sorry about the vagueness, let me clarify. The MS
> > model needs to create a Domain. In the domain there has to be a
controller
> > and a slave. The mail serving software runs on the slave. It has to do
> > with the microsoft active directory structure. I don't really know much
> > about it other than that.

> Well, err this clarification adds even more confusion: Does "Domain" mean
> an "NT Domain" or an internet domain "foobar.com"? And what does "master"
> and "slave" mean? Something like "Primary Domain Controller" and "Member
> Server in that Domain" ?

> > I helped to set up qmail on a redhat box before, but in this instance I
> > have to migrate over an existing email server from Microsoft Commercial
> > Internet System HTML Mail to the qmail I'm going to set up. I don't
really

I
> > will be working with the company on that, but I don't even know where to
> > look for email migration tips. This is really a set of newbie questions.

> Is it about replacing an existing Exchange server for an certain internet
> domain, i.e. the POP3 and SMTP functionality? Or a complete replacement of
> an Exchange server (perhaps impossible, as Exchange is quite a complex
> beast)? Migrating the user accounts from Exchange/AD to qmail (I guess
this
> can be done with some Visual Borsig and perl scripts)?

> > I'm not even
> > sure where to begin looking for answers.  Any clues are appreciated.
> > Thanks.

> Thou shalt ask the righte questions and answers will be given tho thou...
> (Sorry, had a beer already ;-)

> Greetings
> Andreas

> --
> /toe/ff

> f/uss.
> de//

 
 
 

FreeBSD and qmail

Post by p.. » Sun, 27 Jan 2002 19:41:00



> I want to setup a server to run FreeBSD and qmail to work as an email
> server. We purchased the hardware with the intent to run MS Exchange, but I
> don't want to do that.  Does anybody know if I still need to have two
> machines to run an email server like in the Exchange model? Or can I run
> FreeBSD and qmail on one server and accomplish the same goal? Any help would
> be appreciated.

To start with i would avoid qmail altogether.

Second, you would be better off using one machine, sunning sendmail as MTA
( most is configured out-of-the-box, the rest you do with an .mc file)

Third , pop / imap daemons for your likings.  And lot's of disk , and
a good backup-strategy.

If you have a second machine, you could keep it as a "warm-baclup"

Quote:> Bart

--
Peter H?kanson        
        IPSec  Sverige      (At the Riverside of Gothenburg, home of Volvo)
           Sorry about my e-mail address, but i'm trying to keep spam out.
           Remove "icke-reklam" and it works.
 
 
 

FreeBSD and qmail

Post by Shin » Mon, 28 Jan 2002 02:23:24


Why would you avoid qmail? Configuration?, Performance? Both?

I am trying to pick a the fastest MTA and so far from browsing
newsgroups the general consensus seems to be that qmail, exim, and
postix are the fastest.

Thanks In advance,
   Shinan



> > I want to setup a server to run FreeBSD and qmail to work as an email
> > server. We purchased the hardware with the intent to run MS Exchange, but I
> > don't want to do that.  Does anybody know if I still need to have two
> > machines to run an email server like in the Exchange model? Or can I run
> > FreeBSD and qmail on one server and accomplish the same goal? Any help would
> > be appreciated.

> To start with i would avoid qmail altogether.

> Second, you would be better off using one machine, sunning sendmail as MTA
> ( most is configured out-of-the-box, the rest you do with an .mc file)

> Third , pop / imap daemons for your likings.  And lot's of disk , and
> a good backup-strategy.

> If you have a second machine, you could keep it as a "warm-baclup"

> > Bart

 
 
 

FreeBSD and qmail

Post by Chris Hedl » Mon, 28 Jan 2002 03:19:28



Quote:> I am trying to pick a the fastest MTA and so far from browsing
> newsgroups the general consensus seems to be that qmail, exim, and
> postix are the fastest.

Just as a comment, I decided to make the change to postfix a few
months ago when I'd finally had enough of sendmail after around
a decade of fighting with it.  The combination of postfix and
cyrus (for IMAP) appears to work very nicely; my machine only has
low-to-moderate traffic, but I understand that both will scale
very well and cope with a lot of requests.

As an aside, it's funny how some things seem just beyond reach
when it comes to getting the hang of them; for me it's always been
sendmail[1], emacs and perl which have confounded me, in spite of
relatively quickly getting to grips with many other things of
equivalent or greater complexity (or at least obtuseness); for
other people it's regular expressions, others still creative use
of pointers/pass-by-address in C, and so on.

[1] Okay, often sendmail and me get along just fine... it's just
    occasional bouts of "150 possible ways of doing something, but
    only one of them might work" when it gets irritating!

Don't mind me, I'm just meandering... :)

Chris.

 
 
 

FreeBSD and qmail

Post by p.. » Mon, 28 Jan 2002 06:15:46



> Why would you avoid qmail? Configuration?, Performance? Both?

Licenses reasons. Read what's available then decide if it fit's your bill.

> I am trying to pick a the fastest MTA and so far from browsing
> newsgroups the general consensus seems to be that qmail, exim, and
> postix are the fastest.
> Thanks In advance,
>    Shinan


>> > I want to setup a server to run FreeBSD and qmail to work as an email
>> > server. We purchased the hardware with the intent to run MS Exchange, but I
>> > don't want to do that.  Does anybody know if I still need to have two
>> > machines to run an email server like in the Exchange model? Or can I run
>> > FreeBSD and qmail on one server and accomplish the same goal? Any help would
>> > be appreciated.

>> To start with i would avoid qmail altogether.

>> Second, you would be better off using one machine, sunning sendmail as MTA
>> ( most is configured out-of-the-box, the rest you do with an .mc file)

>> Third , pop / imap daemons for your likings.  And lot's of disk , and
>> a good backup-strategy.

>> If you have a second machine, you could keep it as a "warm-baclup"

>> > Bart

--
Peter H?kanson        
        IPSec  Sverige      (At the Riverside of Gothenburg, home of Volvo)
           Sorry about my e-mail address, but i'm trying to keep spam out.
           Remove "icke-reklam" and it works.
 
 
 

FreeBSD and qmail

Post by Philip Paep » Mon, 28 Jan 2002 08:14:26


[please don't top-post]

Quote:> I'm sort of figuring out the picture and learning as I go along and I think
> this is what I'm trying to get at:
> I want to use qmail to replace an Exchange server for an internet domain so
> as to replace POP3 and SMTP functionality. Using FreeBSD and qmail is it
> necessary to have a Primary Domain Controller and a Member Server in that
> domain? We have about 7 thousand users, hence accounts to transfer. Does
> this seem feasible? Thanks.

Why bother with qmail?  There's a number of more friendly MTAs around...  I
suggest Postfix combined with Cyrus IMAP.

As for your question: This is not micro$oft.  There's no such things as
'primary domain controller' or 'member server'.  I don't think you need more
than one machine for a mere 7000 users -- provided the machine is a strong
little baby...

Migrating the users from wintendo to the civilised world might prove a
challenge, though not entirely impossible if you think about it long enough!
Mail, in any case, should not be an issue!

PS: would you kindly post your responses on Usenet *below* the rest of the
thread instead of *above* it, and employ some judicious snipping away of
irrelevant stuff.  I don't know who threw the top-posting model into the
world, but he should never have been born ;-)

[...]

 - Philip

--

  I know you believe you understand
     what you think I said,
        however, I am not sure you realise,
           that what I think you heard
              is not what I meant

 
 
 

FreeBSD and qmail

Post by Christopher Brown » Mon, 28 Jan 2002 08:45:39




>> I'm sort of figuring out the picture and learning as I go along and I think
>> this is what I'm trying to get at:
>> I want to use qmail to replace an Exchange server for an internet
>> domain so as to replace POP3 and SMTP functionality. Using FreeBSD
>> and qmail is it necessary to have a Primary Domain Controller and a
>> Member Server in that domain? We have about 7 thousand users, hence
>> accounts to transfer. Does this seem feasible? Thanks.
> Why bother with qmail?  There's a number of more friendly MTAs
> around...  I suggest Postfix combined with Cyrus IMAP.
> As for your question: This is not micro$oft.  There's no such things
> as 'primary domain controller' or 'member server'.  I don't think
> you need more than one machine for a mere 7000 users -- provided the
> machine is a strong little baby...

Pointing at "numbers of users" when talking about the MTA is fairly
silly; transferring messages betwixt here and there has very little to
do with the number of users.  It has a LOT to do with the number of
_messages_.  When playing with statistics, THAT is the issue.

Pick _any_ MTA (qmail, Postfix, Exim, Sendmail, smail ...) and you
won't be VASTLY wrong.  It should perform adequately for 7K users
sending a number of messages per day, and if it doesn't, it's not
going to take vast respecification efforts to fix this.

Quote:> Migrating the users from wintendo to the civilised world might prove
> a challenge, though not entirely impossible if you think about it
> long enough!  Mail, in any case, should not be an issue!

Mail TRANSPORT should be the smallest of the issues, to be sure.

The vast majority of the effort will involve addressing the question:
  "So where do we PUT the mail so the users can access their mail?"

THAT is a question that (most likely) points to one of:
  -> Having the users use POP3 clients, storing all mail on their
     workstations, or

  -> Having the users use IMAP clients, storing mail largely on an
     IMAP server.

If mail resides on a POP3 server, then scalability stays rather high;
in effect, the point of the POP3 server is to queue mail.  IMAP is
certainly the "higher tech" solution, more nearly resembling what
Exchange does, with some additional costs in system management and
complexity.

The thing is, focusing on the MTA is a Big Mistake as that's not the
part of the system that needs most of the resources.  
--

http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/sap.html
Who wants to remember  that escape-x-alt-control-left shift-b puts you
into super-edit-debug-compile mode?  (Discussion in comp.os.linux.misc
on the intuitiveness of commands, especially Emacs.)

 
 
 

FreeBSD and qmail

Post by John » Mon, 28 Jan 2002 12:51:18



[...snippage of mail strategy, which I agree with...]

Quote:>  If you have a second machine, you could keep it as a "warm-baclup"

If you needed to provide services for 7k users I'd strongly recommend
running a huge /var partition, ideally a (hot swappable) raid5 array.

just my 0.02

--

chown -R us:us *base*

 
 
 

FreeBSD and qmail

Post by Michael Sierchi » Mon, 28 Jan 2002 15:17:10



> Why bother with qmail?  There's a number of more friendly MTAs around...  I
> suggest Postfix combined with Cyrus IMAP.

I'd say -- because qmail is demonstrably more secure, offers better
performance, and was devised by a cranky guy named dj bernstein ;-)

It's true that to effectively use qmail you need to install a
handful of ports -- ucspi-tcp, daemontools and qmail -- and that
there is an initial burden in getting it started.  But it also
offers superior SPAM rejection.

If you follow the Life with QMail instructions, you'll have it up
and running in a few hours.  I did this, including applying
the qmail-regex patch, and am quite happy.