FreeBsd: Better then Linux?

FreeBsd: Better then Linux?

Post by Mike Urba » Thu, 23 Apr 1998 04:00:00



Hello.

I'm sure that this has been brought up in this group many times before, but
here is my question.

I am currently running Linux, and I am very new to it. It's great, but
there are a few things I don't like about it:

1. The problem where you download an application for Linux only to find out
that it won't run corectly because the distribution you have happens to do
things slightly different then the distribution it was compiled on.

2. You download a source package only to find out that you don't have a
particular library that is needed to compile it, even though that library
is included with another distribution.

3. The "Linux kernel of the week". Things change so fast that you can't
keep up with it. And then when you do upgrade your kernel, you find that
things that used to work don't anymore, because you have to upgrade
something else too.

Would I be happier with FreeBSD? Or does it have the same problems?

Thanks,

Mike.

 
 
 

FreeBsd: Better then Linux?

Post by Mike Urba » Thu, 23 Apr 1998 04:00:00




Quote:> Hello.

> I'm sure that this has been brought up in this group many times before,
but
> here is my question.

> I am currently running Linux, and I am very new to it. It's great, but
> there are a few things I don't like about it:

> 1. The problem where you download an application for Linux only to find
out
> that it won't run corectly because the distribution you have happens to
do
> things slightly different then the distribution it was compiled on.

> 2. You download a source package only to find out that you don't have a
> particular library that is needed to compile it, even though that library
> is included with another distribution.

> 3. The "Linux kernel of the week". Things change so fast that you can't
> keep up with it. And then when you do upgrade your kernel, you find that
> things that used to work don't anymore, because you have to upgrade
> something else too.

> Would I be happier with FreeBSD? Or does it have the same problems?

> Thanks,

> Mike.

Oh. One more question I forgot to ask. Will it run apps like Applixware? Or
Star Office? Is there some kind of emulator I can get to make it run those
Linux apps? I plan to get rid of Windows 95 completely and run everything
off of Linux or FreeBSD, so an office type package is important.

Thanks,

Mike.

 
 
 

FreeBsd: Better then Linux?

Post by Joe Gre » Thu, 23 Apr 1998 04:00:00





:> Hello.
:>
:> I'm sure that this has been brought up in this group many times before,
:but
:> here is my question.
:>
:> I am currently running Linux, and I am very new to it. It's great, but
:> there are a few things I don't like about it:
:>
:> 1. The problem where you download an application for Linux only to find
:out
:> that it won't run corectly because the distribution you have happens to
:do
:> things slightly different then the distribution it was compiled on.

Linux:  That is annoying, but you can work around it.  I don't recall
seeing this happen on FreeBSD, unless perhaps you try using applications
built for a different rev of the OS.  Even then, FreeBSD tries to maintain
compatibility through the use of backwards-compatibility libraries.

:> 2. You download a source package only to find out that you don't have a
:> particular library that is needed to compile it, even though that library
:> is included with another distribution.

Linux:  That is annoying, but you can work around it.  This usually doesn't
happen with FreeBSD "ports", although sometimes a source out on the Internet
becomes unavailable or outdated.  The FreeBSD "packages" are precompiled,
and work around this problem quite nicely.  The main annoyance is that some
are dependent on others, so you may have to play "install two or three
packages" to get something to work right.  It's usually very well documented
through a warning, though.

Some of us just like to compile our own programs though.

:> 3. The "Linux kernel of the week". Things change so fast that you can't
:> keep up with it. And then when you do upgrade your kernel, you find that
:> things that used to work don't anymore, because you have to upgrade
:> something else too.

I've seen that happen, every so often, with FreeBSD.  Devices that were
once well-supported because somebody "loved them" become stale and
obsolete.  This, however, isn't the norm, and usually happens over the
period of a year or two.

It's usually not a problem unless you're using some obscure device like
a MumbleCo Proprietary CD-ROM that's no longer made.

I try to select my hardware carefully.  I pick hardware that is used by
a lot of people, and hardware that has drivers written by long-time
FreeBSD hackers, because both of these types of hardware will tend to be
better supported.  I read the lists and pick and choose on that basis.
Some friends swear by 3Com Ethernet cards for their Novell/DOS boxes.
I wouldn't touch a 3Com product with a 10 foot pole for use in a FreeBSD
system.  They've historically been very poorly supported, and the several
tries I've made to use them have been failures.  I'd recommend most SMC
hardware, generic NE2000's, or DEC Tulip based cards without a second
thought.

:> Would I be happier with FreeBSD? Or does it have the same problems?

Everything has problems.  FreeBSD may offer some different problems.  I
suspect that the problems you're complaining about would not be as
serious under FreeBSD, but you might run into others.

:> Thanks,
:>
:> Mike.
:
:Oh. One more question I forgot to ask. Will it run apps like Applixware? Or
:Star Office? Is there some kind of emulator I can get to make it run those
:Linux apps? I plan to get rid of Windows 95 completely and run everything
:off of Linux or FreeBSD, so an office type package is important.

FreeBSD does Linux emulation, although setting it up is an adventure in
reading TFM.  I don't know if that'll run Applixware/Star Office, since I
don't have a need for them.

Other comments:  your complaints remind me very much of the complaints that
I had about Linux, before FreeBSD existed, and I was experimenting with
using Linux.  It's reassuring to know that Linux is still capable of causing
the same frustrations in other people, four or five years later.  :-)  Linux
may be older, but it still lacks the air of discipline and professionalism
that surrounds FreeBSD.

You can probably get Linux to do what you need.  It's a matter of how much
work you're willing to put into it.

You can probably get FreeBSD to do what you need.  It's my opinion that it
will probably be less work than Linux, but that may not be the case for
you.

Whatever you do, it can't be bad to get away from Windows95.

Good luck,

... JG

 
 
 

FreeBsd: Better then Linux?

Post by Nobr » Fri, 24 Apr 1998 04:00:00



> (...)

> Would I be happier with FreeBSD?

> (...)

Salut.

Probably as you are doing, I'm Linux-to-freeBSD'ing for my own and maybe won't
ever go back -)
It's because the answer to your question is 'likely Yes'.
New to freeBSD too, I got that feeling as writing a socket-based server.
Some vital system calls as 'select' misbehave ( no more interrupt above a
constant of 180 fd's on FD_SET)on Linux and therefore make loaded servers
running bad. (maybe a patch, maybe not)
Same source compiled with same gnu compiler shows 'linear load support'.
I had trouble too with (very standard) Linux 3C509 drivers (maybe a patch,
maybe not).
Java applics work poorly on Linux because of thread handling troubles, and so
on (maybe a patch, maybe not).
...
Got Bored of patch hunting...

As a last fact, freeBSD has been recommended to me by 'experts' who sysop
heavily
loaded Apache servers... and use netBSD(on sparcs) and freeBSD(on i586).

I found easy to custmize freeBSD kernel to increase fd table up to more than
needed (over 10000) and to run my server with 2000 bombing connexions on a
single laptop...

Reasons to keep both Linux and freeBSD??
    Well, see for your favorites Apps on both platforms... Anyway, ports are
made easy
    by gnu compiler coming with Linux and freeBSD distribs.

My beginner's impression and conclusion :
    freeBSD is 'neater' than Linux. I'll leave my RedHat in it's box for now!!

A bientot.
--
\\\\//                                                        //////
 \`_`\   [|^^|                                         |^^|]  /'_'//
  \~ /   /|--|                                         |--|\  \ o /

 
 
 

FreeBsd: Better then Linux?

Post by Donn Mille » Fri, 24 Apr 1998 04:00:00



Quote:> Hello.

> I'm sure that this has been brought up in this group many times before, but
> here is my question.

> I am currently running Linux, and I am very new to it. It's great, but
> there are a few things I don't like about it:

> 1. The problem where you download an application for Linux only to find out
> that it won't run corectly because the distribution you have happens to do
> things slightly different then the distribution it was compiled on.

There is only one distribution.

Quote:> 2. You download a source package only to find out that you don't have a
> particular library that is needed to compile it, even though that library
> is included with another distribution.

Sometimes you find yourself having to install additional libraries for a
particular port or package.  But there is only one distribution.

Quote:> 3. The "Linux kernel of the week". Things change so fast that you can't
> keep up with it. And then when you do upgrade your kernel, you find that
> things that used to work don't anymore, because you have to upgrade
> something else too.

Well, some things like doscmd (in FreeBSD-3.0-current, a development
version) won't run on 2.2.x systems.  FreeBSD kernels usually don't
undergo majorly drastic revisions from release to release.  FreeBSD,
AFAIK, gets a new release about once every two months or more depending on
necessity.  With FreeBSD, the new kernel revision is introduced along with
a whole new release, so everything is complete (no additional upgrading
is required).

DISCLAIMER

Note that the above observations are just my opinions after using FreeBSD
steady for 1 1/2 years.  I don't guarantee them to be correct, since there
may be some subjective observations made on my part.

        Donn

 
 
 

FreeBsd: Better then Linux?

Post by Michael Hancoc » Fri, 24 Apr 1998 04:00:00


There's a Linux emulator and you may have to tinker with the application
to get it installed right, but there are web pages describing how to do
it on the net.

What the hell, I'll start the rumour that a native FreeBSD version of
Applixware is in the works.


> Oh. One more question I forgot to ask. Will it run apps like Applixware? Or
> Star Office? Is there some kind of emulator I can get to make it run those
> Linux apps? I plan to get rid of Windows 95 completely and run everything
> off of Linux or FreeBSD, so an office type package is important.

> Thanks,

> Mike.

 
 
 

FreeBsd: Better then Linux?

Post by Jordan K. Hubba » Fri, 24 Apr 1998 04:00:00



> Oh. One more question I forgot to ask. Will it run apps like Applixware? Or
> Star Office? Is there some kind of emulator I can get to make it run those

Yes to both.  Go to /usr/ports/emulators/linux_lib and type "make
install" then type "linux" to load the emulation code (or set
linux=YES in /etc/rc.conf so it stays loaded across reboots).  You'll
then be able to run the Applixware or StarOffice installation programs
just like you were on a linux box.

                                Jordan

--
- Jordan Hubbard
  The FreeBSD Project / Walnut Creek CDROM

 
 
 

FreeBsd: Better then Linux?

Post by Robert D. Key » Fri, 24 Apr 1998 04:00:00



> Hello.

Welcome to a comfy FreeBSD joy..... (less linux hassles).

Quote:> I'm sure that this has been brought up in this group many times before, but
> here is my question.
> I am currently running Linux, and I am very new to it. It's great, but
> there are a few things I don't like about it:
> 1. The problem where you download an application for Linux only to find out
> that it won't run corectly because the distribution you have happens to do
> things slightly different then the distribution it was compiled on.

That usually won't happen on FreeBSD.  The reason that it won't happen is
that the ports system are more closely coordinated than on Linux.  I too
have been bit on the Linux ports ``minor variations'' a time or two.

Quote:> 2. You download a source package only to find out that you don't have a
> particular library that is needed to compile it, even though that library
> is included with another distribution.

My main problem with Linux..... finding the lost lib.whateversoandsoitis.
If you stay with a particular FreeBSD revision (like 2.2.6, the current
one) then the ports will be stable for a long time, and that missing
pieces syndrome will not be found (in my experiences).  Also, FreeBSD,
if it senses anything missing, will try to fetch it from anywhere in
the world it is likely to be (Linux needs that IMHO).  That is a nice
feature of FreeBSD.

Quote:> 3. The "Linux kernel of the week". Things change so fast that you can't
> keep up with it. And then when you do upgrade your kernel, you find that
> things that used to work don't anymore, because you have to upgrade
> something else too.

FreeBSD tends to run in more stable releases that are relatively firm for
some time (months at least).  IFF you are a bleeding edge sort, you can
get the daily systems upgrades automatically (I do it now and again when
my conscience hurts if I think I really need to --- usually I don't).
That would be the daily stable or current branch shapshots.  Linux has
some of that but not as well handled.  For the average user, the set
FreeBSD releases are all you need, and they are a complete coordinated
set that will not leave you with the empty missing bits Linux feeling.
That comfort on unix, especially for a newbie, is most welcome and
refreshing.

Quote:> Would I be happier with FreeBSD? Or does it have the same problems?

In my hands, it does not have the same problems.  FreeBSD gives me a
comfy feeling... Linux make me scratch the ole noggin trying to find
all the bits I think I need.  If you are serious about a Unix usage,
I would expect FreeBSD to do you better in the long run.  That has
been my own experiences.

Quote:> Thanks,
> Mike.

Yer welcome....

RDK

 
 
 

FreeBsd: Better then Linux?

Post by Paul Hughe » Fri, 24 Apr 1998 04:00:00


: I am currently running Linux, and I am very new to it. It's great, but
: there are a few things I don't like about it:

   [snip]

: 3. The "Linux kernel of the week". Things change so fast that you can't
: keep up with it. And then when you do upgrade your kernel, you find that
: things that used to work don't anymore, because you have to upgrade
: something else too.

: Would I be happier with FreeBSD? Or does it have the same problems?

I am not going to add to the FreeBSD vs Linux debate here, but a few
comments on kernel upgrading seem indicated.

Unless you are debugging the kernel itself, have a compulsive need for
the absolute latest, greatest (and buggiest) version, or have another
special need, you should not attempt to install each new version of the
kernel as it comes out.  As you point out, it costs a lot of your time
retweaking things for what is usually only an incremental improvement
in capability or performance.  I tend to upgrade no more than once a
year, unless the new kernel fixes some bug that has been hurting me,
or provides some new capability that I actually need.  For the same
reason, I stick to the stable, debugged releases.

There is a valid and important place for the latest and greatest
releases.  (How else would we get them debugged into stable releases?)
But they are not well suited to production systems, nor to most
beginners.

Paul Hughett

 
 
 

FreeBsd: Better then Linux?

Post by Kelv » Fri, 24 Apr 1998 04:00:00






>:> Hello.
>:>
>:> I'm sure that this has been brought up in this group many times before,
>:but
>:> here is my question.
>:Oh. One more question I forgot to ask. Will it run apps like Applixware? Or
>:Star Office? Is there some kind of emulator I can get to make it run those
>:Linux apps? I plan to get rid of Windows 95 completely and run everything
>:off of Linux or FreeBSD, so an office type package is important.

>FreeBSD does Linux emulation, although setting it up is an adventure in
>reading TFM.  I don't know if that'll run Applixware/Star Office, since I
>don't have a need for them.

I'm running StarOffice 4 on FreBSD 2.2.6 okay although it uses up lots of
memory (ie:
 top output:

 PID USERNAME PRI NICE SIZE    RES STATE    TIME   WCPU    CPU COMMAND
632 erkaf      2   0  7764K 17000K select   0:03  4.70%  4.16% soffice.bin

and even more when its actually doing something .....
 PID USERNAME PRI NICE SIZE    RES STATE    TIME   WCPU    CPU COMMAND
632 erkaf      2   0 10972K 21032K select   0:21  1.95%  1.95% soffice.bin

I didn't find the linux emulation very hard to setup .
Cheers.
--
     |       T R E N T           Kelvin Farmer

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