*Commercial* support for Diamond or Matrox??

*Commercial* support for Diamond or Matrox??

Post by b.. » Thu, 03 Mar 1994 00:25:46



Let's try this increasingly FAQ from a different tack:

Is there or will there be any commercially available support for these
high end graphics boards?  The Matrox MGA II+ in particular advertises
built-in acceleration for X-windows-- they must have put it in there for
*something*, right?

Frankly, Linux just isn't useful to me if it isn't going to support a high
end card like the Matrox, whether I have to pay for it or not.

--bob

 
 
 

*Commercial* support for Diamond or Matrox??

Post by Harry Langenbach » Thu, 03 Mar 1994 03:33:31



>Let's try this increasingly FAQ from a different tack:

>Is there or will there be any commercially available support for these
>high end graphics boards?  The Matrox MGA II+ in particular advertises
>built-in acceleration for X-windows-- they must have put it in there for
>*something*, right?

>Frankly, Linux just isn't useful to me if it isn't going to support a high
>end card like the Matrox, whether I have to pay for it or not.

It's XFree86[tm] that supports the cards - Linux supports Xfree86.

I think SCO supports all the accelerated diamond cards (at least the viper)
and MGA impression/3 .

You can get unixware Viper drivers (still beta as of 1-24-93) for $199
from "Metrolink Metro-X", along with support for a bunch of other cards.

        Harry

It gives us those _nice bright_ colors ... Gives us the _greens_ of summers
Makes you think all the world's a _sunny_day_, oh yeah !!
I got a _Nikon_ camera ... I love to take a _phot_o_graph_
So Momma, don't taaaaake my Kodachrome away           -- Paul Simon
--

Concurrent Processing Devices Group, Jet Propulsion Lab
4800 Oak Grove Dr, Pasadena California 91109 USA

 
 
 

*Commercial* support for Diamond or Matrox??

Post by Lawrence Foa » Thu, 03 Mar 1994 05:06:45




>Let's try this increasingly FAQ from a different tack:

>Is there or will there be any commercially available support for these
>high end graphics boards?  The Matrox MGA II+ in particular advertises
>built-in acceleration for X-windows-- they must have put it in there for
>*something*, right?

>Frankly, Linux just isn't useful to me if it isn't going to support a high
>end card like the Matrox, whether I have to pay for it or not.

Why not call them and ask? If they get enough requests maybe they will
assist the Xfree86 people in making X available for there card for
all PC unix and unix work alikes?
--
------ Call the skeptic hotline 1-900-555-5555 talk to your own personal .
\    / skeptic 24 hours/day.     Just say no to victimless crimes.      . .
 \  / High quality Linux application development available.            . . .
  \/ The true theory of everything will run on a finite turing machine. . . .
 
 
 

*Commercial* support for Diamond or Matrox??

Post by d.. » Thu, 03 Mar 1994 07:42:56


: Frankly, Linux just isn't useful to me if it isn't going to support a high
: end card like the Matrox, whether I have to pay for it or not.

I recommend Solaris for Intel.

Was that too vicious? Naaa. Serves him about right :-)

--

+--------------------------------------+

 
 
 

*Commercial* support for Diamond or Matrox??

Post by Byron A Je » Thu, 03 Mar 1994 11:21:52




>Let's try this increasingly FAQ from a different tack:

>Is there or will there be any commercially available support for these
>high end graphics boards?  The Matrox MGA II+ in particular advertises
>built-in acceleration for X-windows-- they must have put it in there for
>*something*, right?

>Frankly, Linux just isn't useful to me if it isn't going to support a high
>end card like the Matrox, whether I have to pay for it or not.

Now Bob,

Can you explain exactly why Linux won't be useful to you if the Matrox
is not supported. I mean Xfree86 can run up to 200K Xstones on
regular cards. Why should anyone bend their back to write a commercial
Xserver that no one will buy because the free one is just as good.

Face it. Matrox and Diamond make their money on Windows installations. The
market for PC based X is so minimal right now that the cost benefit of
writing a commercial server is none.

So either look at getting a #9 or some other supported card or look
elsewhere.

BTW Matrox and Diamond wouldn't have these problems if they weren't so
*about NDA for all their products.

BTW I have a machine with a Matrox Impression 1024. It have 4 Mbytes of
Vram. Xfree86 only sees the 1st meg. I live with it and in fact I'm happy
it works at all.

Later,

BAJ

Quote:

>--bob

---
Another random extraction from the mental bit stream of...
Byron A. Jeff - PhD student operating in parallel!

 
 
 

*Commercial* support for Diamond or Matrox??

Post by Joe Bro » Thu, 03 Mar 1994 13:39:30




>Why not call them and ask? If they get enough requests maybe they will
>assist the Xfree86 people in making X available for there card for
>all PC unix and unix work alikes?

hahahah...  That's funny dude...

Diamond can't even get drivers working smoothly for MS-Windows.

Quote:>------ Call the skeptic hotline 1-900-555-5555 talk to your own personal .
>\    / skeptic 24 hours/day.     Just say no to victimless crimes.      . .
         ^^^^^ ?
> \  / High quality Linux application development available.            . . .
>  \/ The true theory of everything will run on a finite turing machine. . . .

Somehow I'm skeptical about that thought dude.  I don't think Diamond
will ever give a damn about it's free *nix users.  I do think they'd
go belly up first.
--

I believe Wine is going to be great if it ever gets finished. . .
I believe Linux _is_ great even though it's not finished! ! !
I believe you have my address.
 
 
 

*Commercial* support for Diamond or Matrox??

Post by Alan C » Fri, 04 Mar 1994 21:40:53



>Frankly, Linux just isn't useful to me if it isn't going to support a high
>end card like the Matrox, whether I have to pay for it or not.

Well I've played with Linux and a mach32 card and to be quite frank it's
so fast I don't think there is much that could need a faster card. It certainly
makes the sparc systems here look slow..

Alan

 
 
 

*Commercial* support for Diamond or Matrox??

Post by Jim Bals » Sun, 06 Mar 1994 01:01:59



|>Path: heimdall!psinntp!psinntp!rutgers!concert!gatech!cc.gatech.edu!byron

|>Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.help
|>Subject: Re: *Commercial* support for Diamond or Matrox??

|>Date: 2 Mar 94 02:21:52 GMT


|>Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology
|>Lines: 46
|>

|>>
|>>Let's try this increasingly FAQ from a different tack:
|>>
|>>Is there or will there be any commercially available support for these
|>>high end graphics boards?  The Matrox MGA II+ in particular advertises
|>>built-in acceleration for X-windows-- they must have put it in there for
|>>*something*, right?
|>>
|>>Frankly, Linux just isn't useful to me if it isn't going to support a high
|>>end card like the Matrox, whether I have to pay for it or not.
|>
|>Now Bob,
|>
|>Can you explain exactly why Linux won't be useful to you if the Matrox
|>is not supported. I mean Xfree86 can run up to 200K Xstones on
|>regular cards. Why should anyone bend their back to write a commercial
|>Xserver that no one will buy because the free one is just as good.
|>
|>Face it. Matrox and Diamond make their money on Windows installations. The
|>market for PC based X is so minimal right now that the cost benefit of
|>writing a commercial server is none.
|

        Please don't tell that to Metrolink or XInside. XInside may not be
 shipping yet, but Metrolink is doing a very good business right now selling
*commercial* servers for the likes of Unixware, Solaris, Esix, etc...

        And the matrox and Diamond may or may not be supported by these guys,
I really don't know. But being commercial, there isn't an issue with signing
the NDA with them because Metrolink does not ship the source code for the
accelerated X Servers.

Jim

 
 
 

*Commercial* support for Diamond or Matrox??

Post by David E. Wexelbl » Tue, 08 Mar 1994 04:47:59






>>|>


>>|>>
>>|>>Let's try this increasingly FAQ from a different tack:
>>|>>
>>|>>Is there or will there be any commercially available support for these
>>|>>high end graphics boards?  The Matrox MGA II+ in particular advertises
>>|>>built-in acceleration for X-windows-- they must have put it in there for
>>|>>*something*, right?
>>|>>
>>|>>Frankly, Linux just isn't useful to me if it isn't going to support a high
>>|>>end card like the Matrox, whether I have to pay for it or not.
>>|>
>>|>Now Bob,
>>|>
>>|>Can you explain exactly why Linux won't be useful to you if the Matrox
>>|>is not supported. I mean Xfree86 can run up to 200K Xstones on
>>|>regular cards. Why should anyone bend their back to write a commercial
>>|>Xserver that no one will buy because the free one is just as good.
>>|>
>>|>Face it. Matrox and Diamond make their money on Windows installations. The
>>|>market for PC based X is so minimal right now that the cost benefit of
>>|>writing a commercial server is none.
>>|

>>        Please don't tell that to Metrolink or XInside. XInside may not be
>> shipping yet, but Metrolink is doing a very good business right now selling
>>*commercial* servers for the likes of Unixware, Solaris, Esix, etc...

>So exactly what is the value added by these servers over Xfree86? I know and
>you know that there are a lot of folks who think that freely distributable
>software is *and unsupported. Therefore they purchase even as we shrug
>our shoulders and ask "Why?!". In addition in order to make money these
>server vendors advertise out the wazoo. Xfree86 is spread mainly by the net
>and by word of mouth. So I'm sure that many folks that are buying Xservers
>are doing so because they don't think (or are not aware of) any alternative.

Believe it or not, there is value added by the commercial endeavors over
XFree86.  And the opposite is true as well.

Advantages of commercial X server over XFree86:

        1) No non-disclosure problems.  Hence they can directly support
           Diamond and Matrox hardware.
        2) Full-time development.  They spend all of their time doing this
           stuff.  We do it as we can, when we can.  Sometimes we're
           prolific.  Some times we're not.
        3) Centralized development control.  Even with the tight controls
           we keep over development, XFree86 has some * problems with
           decentralization.  There is no reason on God's green earth
           why we have 4 different servers for 8514/A-derived hardware,
           except for the fact that four different groups did them.

Advantages of XFree86 over commercial X servers:

        1) Price (can't argue that one).
        2) Full source code availability.
        3) Opportunities for individual involvement in the efforts.
        4) OS availability.  We're available on more than a dozen OSs.
           Far more than any single commercial offering.

Quote:>I know of Metrolinks Motif. It's sales are understandable. However I really
>curious as to what these commercial servers offer that Xfree does not.

There really is no either/or stuff going on here.  We have a good
relationship with MetroLink (in fact, there is some behind-the-scenes
stuff going on that may well benefit the free software community in a big
way - more on this after R6 as done, as we've back-burned everything to
get R6 done).  We have in the past had a good relationship with SGCS
(in fact, a major reason SGCS got the ESIX contract was my personal
references to Jim Hillegas, president of James River Group); we'll see
what happens with X Inside.

One of these days more people will wake up and realize that free
software and commercial software are NOT in the adversarial relationship
that the GNU zealots would have the world believe.  In fact, I think
the relationship has improved products on both sides of the fence.  Sure
we compete, but it's a highly professional competition.

Quote:>BAJ

>>        And the matrox and Diamond may or may not be supported by these guys,
>>I really don't know. But being commercial, there isn't an issue with signing
>>the NDA with them because Metrolink does not ship the source code for the
>>accelerated X Servers.

>They would still have to sign an NDA I'm sure. But the whole point being made
>by the Xfree86 is that there are enough good (nay excellent) video cards
>that make X sing. So why waste time with *retentive companies that
>won't release programming specs.

Bingo.

Quote:

>Bob still hasn't answered my question: other than a snobbish attitute what
>exactly does X on a Diamond or a Matrox card offer you that running on
>a high end #9 with the 200 Mhz AT&T RAMDAC for example does not?

Well, right now, as of this moment, the Matrox is hands-down the performance
leader in the PC realm.  That will change.  Diamond is just involved in
massive doses of recreational pharmaceuticals - there is NO advantage
to Diamond hardware over other available hardware that we can determine.

>>Jim

>---
>Another random extraction from the mental bit stream of...
>Byron A. Jeff - PhD student operating in parallel!


--

AIB Software Corporation, 46030 Manekin Plaza, Suite 160, Dulles, VA  20166
  Formerly Virtual Technologies, Inc.


"A second flood, a simple famine, plagues of locusts everywhere,
  Or a cataclysmic earthquake, I'd accept with some despair.
    But no, you sent us Congress!  Good God, sir, was that fair?"
      -- John Adams, "Piddle, Twiddle, and Resolve", from "1776"

 
 
 

*Commercial* support for Diamond or Matrox??

Post by Byron A Je » Mon, 07 Mar 1994 11:09:17





>|>Path: heimdall!psinntp!psinntp!rutgers!concert!gatech!cc.gatech.edu!byron

>|>Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.help
>|>Subject: Re: *Commercial* support for Diamond or Matrox??

>|>Date: 2 Mar 94 02:21:52 GMT


>|>Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology
>|>Lines: 46
>|>


>|>>
>|>>Let's try this increasingly FAQ from a different tack:
>|>>
>|>>Is there or will there be any commercially available support for these
>|>>high end graphics boards?  The Matrox MGA II+ in particular advertises
>|>>built-in acceleration for X-windows-- they must have put it in there for
>|>>*something*, right?
>|>>
>|>>Frankly, Linux just isn't useful to me if it isn't going to support a high
>|>>end card like the Matrox, whether I have to pay for it or not.
>|>
>|>Now Bob,
>|>
>|>Can you explain exactly why Linux won't be useful to you if the Matrox
>|>is not supported. I mean Xfree86 can run up to 200K Xstones on
>|>regular cards. Why should anyone bend their back to write a commercial
>|>Xserver that no one will buy because the free one is just as good.
>|>
>|>Face it. Matrox and Diamond make their money on Windows installations. The
>|>market for PC based X is so minimal right now that the cost benefit of
>|>writing a commercial server is none.
>|

>    Please don't tell that to Metrolink or XInside. XInside may not be
> shipping yet, but Metrolink is doing a very good business right now selling
>*commercial* servers for the likes of Unixware, Solaris, Esix, etc...

So exactly what is the value added by these servers over Xfree86? I know and
you know that there are a lot of folks who think that freely distributable
software is *and unsupported. Therefore they purchase even as we shrug
our shoulders and ask "Why?!". In addition in order to make money these
server vendors advertise out the wazoo. Xfree86 is spread mainly by the net
and by word of mouth. So I'm sure that many folks that are buying Xservers
are doing so because they don't think (or are not aware of) any alternative.

I know of Metrolinks Motif. It's sales are understandable. However I really
curious as to what these commercial servers offer that Xfree does not.

BAJ

Quote:

>    And the matrox and Diamond may or may not be supported by these guys,
>I really don't know. But being commercial, there isn't an issue with signing
>the NDA with them because Metrolink does not ship the source code for the
>accelerated X Servers.

They would still have to sign an NDA I'm sure. But the whole point being made
by the Xfree86 is that there are enough good (nay excellent) video cards
that make X sing. So why waste time with *retentive companies that
won't release programming specs.

Bob still hasn't answered my question: other than a snobbish attitute what
exactly does X on a Diamond or a Matrox card offer you that running on
a high end #9 with the 200 Mhz AT&T RAMDAC for example does not?

>Jim


---
Another random extraction from the mental bit stream of...
Byron A. Jeff - PhD student operating in parallel!

 
 
 

*Commercial* support for Diamond or Matrox??

Post by David Wrig » Tue, 08 Mar 1994 22:54:09


  BAJ> I know of Metrolinks Motif. It's sales are understandable. However I
                            ^^^^^
  BAJ> really
  BAJ> curious as to what these commercial servers offer that Xfree does not.

        Motif? :-)

                                                                Dave

(Would anyone PAY for a commercial version of X if a full version of Motif
was available for free? I doubt it...)
--
  ____________________________________________________________________________
 |        /\ /          | Prism Computer Applications        |  David Wright  |

 |      /____\          | Lakewood, OH 44107  USA            |  216-228-1400  |

 
 
 

*Commercial* support for Diamond or Matrox??

Post by b.. » Wed, 09 Mar 1994 04:05:31


|>>|>Now Bob,
|>>|>
|>>|>Can you explain exactly why Linux won't be useful to you if the Matrox
|>>|>is not supported. I mean Xfree86 can run up to 200K Xstones on
|>>|>regular cards. Why should anyone bend their back to write a commercial
|>>|>Xserver that no one will buy because the free one is just as good.

|>
|>Bob still hasn't answered my question: other than a snobbish attitute what
|>exactly does X on a Diamond or a Matrox card offer you that running on
|>a high end #9 with the 200 Mhz AT&T RAMDAC for example does not?

I haven't answered your question because my site hasn't received it until
now! :-)  Sorry, not everyone's newsfeed is on the ball...

The reason I wish for Matrox support, commercial or not, is that I don't
want to use my fancy new Pentium for only Unix/X.  I have 2 large disk
drives, and I think it's a perfectly reasonable expectation to want to
run either Windows or Unix depending on what I have to do that day.

So, while I'm sure Xfree86 has quite admirable performance in terms of Xstones,
I am also concerned with how quickly I can manipulate 24bit images in
Adobe Photoshop.

You can lower your crests a little guys.  Nobody's attacking your noble
operating system, I'm just making a plea/inquiry for information on
commercial add-ons.

--bob

 
 
 

*Commercial* support for Diamond or Matrox??

Post by Gary Bar » Fri, 11 Mar 1994 23:13:41


Gentlemen(?):
 I'm kinda new at this game, but I face the same dilemma Bob does. I've
been a DOS/Windows guy for 15 years, and always try to stay ahead of
the game hardware-wise. I just invested mucho bucks in a new 486DX2/66
with 16 MB of RAM, a 1-gig Micropolis IDE drive, a SoundBlaster 16 ASP
with 2 CD/ROMS, a Colorado 250 Jumbo, AND...a Diamond Viper VLB card.
Then I took some classes on Unix and Sun, and was turned on to the
wonderful (again,?) world of Unix. And my professor pointed me toward
Linux, as well as a co-worker. Now I'm finding out through much
research up here in the Linux groups that not much of what I have is
compatible with Linux. Even my H/P DeskJet 500C has problems. I'm all
set to jump in with both feet, guys, but I don't want to go out and buy
new equipment again. Free OS's are great...IF they'll work with what
you got! The smart ones out there are the ones who ask the group what
equipment they SHOULD buy before spending all that money.

Right now, the Viper problem is at the forefront...I'll fight the other
battles later. If this problem can be resolved somehow, I might break
down and attempt to get Linux up on my machine. By all descriptions, I
DO have a decent configuration to run the system on.

Oh, if only I had known about Unix in the old days!

***Gary***

 
 
 

*Commercial* support for Diamond or Matrox??

Post by Byron A Je » Sat, 12 Mar 1994 06:53:54




>|>>|>Now Bob,
>|>>|>
>|>>|>Can you explain exactly why Linux won't be useful to you if the Matrox
>|>>|>is not supported. I mean Xfree86 can run up to 200K Xstones on
>|>>|>regular cards. Why should anyone bend their back to write a commercial
>|>>|>Xserver that no one will buy because the free one is just as good.

>|>
>|>Bob still hasn't answered my question: other than a snobbish attitute what
>|>exactly does X on a Diamond or a Matrox card offer you that running on
>|>a high end #9 with the 200 Mhz AT&T RAMDAC for example does not?

>I haven't answered your question because my site hasn't received it until
>now! :-)  Sorry, not everyone's newsfeed is on the ball...

I can understand that. We have a 56K link where I work and we've been moving.
In fact we don't even have news yet!

Quote:

>The reason I wish for Matrox support, commercial or not, is that I don't
>want to use my fancy new Pentium for only Unix/X.  I have 2 large disk
>drives, and I think it's a perfectly reasonable expectation to want to
>run either Windows or Unix depending on what I have to do that day.

Granted. However you didn't state that your card choice has been completed
or not. I had to go through the same agony when upgading a machine at work.
I finally setted (in a manner of speaking) on a Matrox Impression 1024.
With its S3-924 and 4 Mbytes of VRAM I can do both 24 bit images and run
X at 1024x768x256. In fact it's the machine I'm on now.

Quote:

>So, while I'm sure Xfree86 has quite admirable performance in terms of Xstones,
>I am also concerned with how quickly I can manipulate 24bit images in
>Adobe Photoshop.

Quite the reasonable request. But unfortunately to get both you'll probably
have to compromise somewhere. I choose to get all the features I needed for
the DOS/Windows side of things and take whatever I could get in terms of X.
No matter what card you get you can run the mono and 16 color servers on them.
I'd love to get 1280x1024 (or even 1600x1200 as I have a 20" monitor) but
Matrox won't join the effort and most of the commercial servers are targeting
commercial OS's. Not a pretty picture.

Quote:

>You can lower your crests a little guys.  Nobody's attacking your noble
>operating system, I'm just making a plea/inquiry for information on
>commercial add-ons.

You original post took the tone of "If Linux/XFree86 doesn't support Diamond
or Matrox it's of no use to me." It's still not clear to me if you've already
made a purchase of the video card yet. It's also still not clear if a high
end #9 (like a #16 with the 200 Mhz AT&T RAMDAC) or ATI card cannot meet
both needs. But in any case your original post came across as an attack.

In any case no matter what you get you'll have some form of X access under
Linux. Either mono or 16 color.

And finally you might want to look at an Xserver for Windows. They are
commercial and supported.

Tell us the deal about your card situation.

Later,

BAJ
---
Another random extraction from the mental bit stream of...
Byron A. Jeff - PhD student operating in parallel!

 
 
 

*Commercial* support for Diamond or Matrox??

Post by Bob Pellegrino (SMCC Softwa » Sun, 13 Mar 1994 00:21:47


|>
|>Tell us the deal about your card situation.
|>

The card has been ordered, but not received yet.  (It's part of a larger
Pentium purchase)

As far as I know, the #9 boards weren't as fast as the Matrox, didn't do
on the fly resolution switching, didn't support 24 bit at 1280x1024 and
didn't have a 1600x1200 mode.

If I was mistaken about any of these points, I'm sure you folks will
let me know.  If they can do all of those things, then I still have time
to exchange the board.

As far as the standard 16 color support for X, that would be fine.  In
X, I don't need colors.  But I do need resolution, so 1024x768 wouldn't
be bad but 1280x1024 would be more like it.


that their X server for Linux supporting the Matrox boards would be
available within 2 months.  Does anyone know anything about them?

--bob