Very Computer

Let's try this increasingly FAQ from a different tack:

Is there or will there be any commercially available support for these
high end graphics boards?  The Matrox MGA II+ in particular advertises
built-in acceleration for X-windows-- they must have put it in there for
*something*, right?

Frankly, Linux just isn't useful to me if it isn't going to support a high
end card like the Matrox, whether I have to pay for it or not.

--bob

I think SCO supports all the accelerated diamond cards (at least the viper)
and MGA impression/3 .

You can get unixware Viper drivers (still beta as of 1-24-93) for $199
from "Metrolink Metro-X", along with support for a bunch of other cards.

        Harry

It gives us those _nice bright_ colors ... Gives us the _greens_ of summers
Makes you think all the world's a _sunny_day_, oh yeah !!
I got a _Nikon_ camera ... I love to take a _phot_o_graph_
So Momma, don't taaaaake my Kodachrome away           -- Paul Simon
--

Concurrent Processing Devices Group, Jet Propulsion Lab
4800 Oak Grove Dr, Pasadena California 91109 USA

: Frankly, Linux just isn't useful to me if it isn't going to support a high
: end card like the Matrox, whether I have to pay for it or not.

I recommend Solaris for Intel.

Was that too vicious? Naaa. Serves him about right :-)

--

+--------------------------------------+

Can you explain exactly why Linux won't be useful to you if the Matrox
is not supported. I mean Xfree86 can run up to 200K Xstones on
regular cards. Why should anyone bend their back to write a commercial
Xserver that no one will buy because the free one is just as good.

Face it. Matrox and Diamond make their money on Windows installations. The
market for PC based X is so minimal right now that the cost benefit of
writing a commercial server is none.

So either look at getting a #9 or some other supported card or look
elsewhere.

BTW Matrox and Diamond wouldn't have these problems if they weren't so
*about NDA for all their products.

BTW I have a machine with a Matrox Impression 1024. It have 4 Mbytes of
Vram. Xfree86 only sees the 1st meg. I live with it and in fact I'm happy
it works at all.

Later,

BAJ

Quote:

>--bob

Diamond can't even get drivers working smoothly for MS-Windows.

Quote:>------ Call the skeptic hotline 1-900-555-5555 talk to your own personal .
>\    / skeptic 24 hours/day.     Just say no to victimless crimes.      . .
         ^^^^^ ?
> \  / High quality Linux application development available.            . . .
>  \/ The true theory of everything will run on a finite turing machine. . . .

Alan

|>Path: heimdall!psinntp!psinntp!rutgers!concert!gatech!cc.gatech.edu!byron

|>Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.help
|>Subject: Re: *Commercial* support for Diamond or Matrox??

|>Date: 2 Mar 94 02:21:52 GMT


|>Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology
|>Lines: 46
|>

|>>
|>>Let's try this increasingly FAQ from a different tack:
|>>
|>>Is there or will there be any commercially available support for these
|>>high end graphics boards?  The Matrox MGA II+ in particular advertises
|>>built-in acceleration for X-windows-- they must have put it in there for
|>>*something*, right?
|>>
|>>Frankly, Linux just isn't useful to me if it isn't going to support a high
|>>end card like the Matrox, whether I have to pay for it or not.
|>
|>Now Bob,
|>
|>Can you explain exactly why Linux won't be useful to you if the Matrox
|>is not supported. I mean Xfree86 can run up to 200K Xstones on
|>regular cards. Why should anyone bend their back to write a commercial
|>Xserver that no one will buy because the free one is just as good.
|>
|>Face it. Matrox and Diamond make their money on Windows installations. The
|>market for PC based X is so minimal right now that the cost benefit of
|>writing a commercial server is none.
|

        Please don't tell that to Metrolink or XInside. XInside may not be
 shipping yet, but Metrolink is doing a very good business right now selling
*commercial* servers for the likes of Unixware, Solaris, Esix, etc...

        And the matrox and Diamond may or may not be supported by these guys,
I really don't know. But being commercial, there isn't an issue with signing
the NDA with them because Metrolink does not ship the source code for the
accelerated X Servers.

Jim

Advantages of commercial X server over XFree86:

        1) No non-disclosure problems.  Hence they can directly support
           Diamond and Matrox hardware.
        2) Full-time development.  They spend all of their time doing this
           stuff.  We do it as we can, when we can.  Sometimes we're
           prolific.  Some times we're not.
        3) Centralized development control.  Even with the tight controls
           we keep over development, XFree86 has some * problems with
           decentralization.  There is no reason on God's green earth
           why we have 4 different servers for 8514/A-derived hardware,
           except for the fact that four different groups did them.

Advantages of XFree86 over commercial X servers:

        1) Price (can't argue that one).
        2) Full source code availability.
        3) Opportunities for individual involvement in the efforts.
        4) OS availability.  We're available on more than a dozen OSs.
           Far more than any single commercial offering.

Quote:>I know of Metrolinks Motif. It's sales are understandable. However I really
>curious as to what these commercial servers offer that Xfree does not.

One of these days more people will wake up and realize that free
software and commercial software are NOT in the adversarial relationship
that the GNU zealots would have the world believe.  In fact, I think
the relationship has improved products on both sides of the fence.  Sure
we compete, but it's a highly professional competition.

Quote:>BAJ

>>        And the matrox and Diamond may or may not be supported by these guys,
>>I really don't know. But being commercial, there isn't an issue with signing
>>the NDA with them because Metrolink does not ship the source code for the
>>accelerated X Servers.

>They would still have to sign an NDA I'm sure. But the whole point being made
>by the Xfree86 is that there are enough good (nay excellent) video cards
>that make X sing. So why waste time with *retentive companies that
>won't release programming specs.

Quote:

>Bob still hasn't answered my question: other than a snobbish attitute what
>exactly does X on a Diamond or a Matrox card offer you that running on
>a high end #9 with the 200 Mhz AT&T RAMDAC for example does not?

"A second flood, a simple famine, plagues of locusts everywhere,
  Or a cataclysmic earthquake, I'd accept with some despair.
    But no, you sent us Congress!  Good God, sir, was that fair?"
      -- John Adams, "Piddle, Twiddle, and Resolve", from "1776"

I know of Metrolinks Motif. It's sales are understandable. However I really
curious as to what these commercial servers offer that Xfree does not.

BAJ

Quote:

>    And the matrox and Diamond may or may not be supported by these guys,
>I really don't know. But being commercial, there isn't an issue with signing
>the NDA with them because Metrolink does not ship the source code for the
>accelerated X Servers.

Bob still hasn't answered my question: other than a snobbish attitute what
exactly does X on a Diamond or a Matrox card offer you that running on
a high end #9 with the 200 Mhz AT&T RAMDAC for example does not?

  BAJ> I know of Metrolinks Motif. It's sales are understandable. However I
                            ^^^^^
  BAJ> really
  BAJ> curious as to what these commercial servers offer that Xfree does not.

        Motif? :-)

                                                                Dave

(Would anyone PAY for a commercial version of X if a full version of Motif
was available for free? I doubt it...)
--
  ____________________________________________________________________________
 |        /\ /          | Prism Computer Applications        |  David Wright  |

 |      /____\          | Lakewood, OH 44107  USA            |  216-228-1400  |

|>>|>Now Bob,
|>>|>
|>>|>Can you explain exactly why Linux won't be useful to you if the Matrox
|>>|>is not supported. I mean Xfree86 can run up to 200K Xstones on
|>>|>regular cards. Why should anyone bend their back to write a commercial
|>>|>Xserver that no one will buy because the free one is just as good.

|>
|>Bob still hasn't answered my question: other than a snobbish attitute what
|>exactly does X on a Diamond or a Matrox card offer you that running on
|>a high end #9 with the 200 Mhz AT&T RAMDAC for example does not?

I haven't answered your question because my site hasn't received it until
now! :-)  Sorry, not everyone's newsfeed is on the ball...

The reason I wish for Matrox support, commercial or not, is that I don't
want to use my fancy new Pentium for only Unix/X.  I have 2 large disk
drives, and I think it's a perfectly reasonable expectation to want to
run either Windows or Unix depending on what I have to do that day.

So, while I'm sure Xfree86 has quite admirable performance in terms of Xstones,
I am also concerned with how quickly I can manipulate 24bit images in
Adobe Photoshop.

You can lower your crests a little guys.  Nobody's attacking your noble
operating system, I'm just making a plea/inquiry for information on
commercial add-ons.

--bob

Right now, the Viper problem is at the forefront...I'll fight the other
battles later. If this problem can be resolved somehow, I might break
down and attempt to get Linux up on my machine. By all descriptions, I
DO have a decent configuration to run the system on.

Oh, if only I had known about Unix in the old days!

***Gary***

Quote:

>The reason I wish for Matrox support, commercial or not, is that I don't
>want to use my fancy new Pentium for only Unix/X.  I have 2 large disk
>drives, and I think it's a perfectly reasonable expectation to want to
>run either Windows or Unix depending on what I have to do that day.

Quote:

>So, while I'm sure Xfree86 has quite admirable performance in terms of Xstones,
>I am also concerned with how quickly I can manipulate 24bit images in
>Adobe Photoshop.

Quote:

>You can lower your crests a little guys.  Nobody's attacking your noble
>operating system, I'm just making a plea/inquiry for information on
>commercial add-ons.

In any case no matter what you get you'll have some form of X access under
Linux. Either mono or 16 color.

And finally you might want to look at an Xserver for Windows. They are
commercial and supported.

Tell us the deal about your card situation.

Later,

BAJ
---
Another random extraction from the mental bit stream of...
Byron A. Jeff - PhD student operating in parallel!

|>
|>Tell us the deal about your card situation.
|>

The card has been ordered, but not received yet.  (It's part of a larger
Pentium purchase)

As far as I know, the #9 boards weren't as fast as the Matrox, didn't do
on the fly resolution switching, didn't support 24 bit at 1280x1024 and
didn't have a 1600x1200 mode.

If I was mistaken about any of these points, I'm sure you folks will
let me know.  If they can do all of those things, then I still have time
to exchange the board.

As far as the standard 16 color support for X, that would be fine.  In
X, I don't need colors.  But I do need resolution, so 1024x768 wouldn't
be bad but 1280x1024 would be more like it.

that their X server for Linux supporting the Matrox boards would be
available within 2 months.  Does anyone know anything about them?

--bob