98, want to put linux on top

98, want to put linux on top

Post by Wamma » Sat, 05 Jun 1999 04:00:00



Hello.

I have a sony laptop running the pre installed 98. I have shrunk the primary
partision down to 2 gigs, of the 4 avaliable. I want to install red hat 6 from
cd. What hapopens to 98 if i do this and allow linux to do a workstation
install. Will I still be able to go into 98. Do I have to do anything special
to 98. 98 is on a FAT32 2 gig partision.

2. Can I transfer files from 98 to linux and vice versa, if so how.

Any help much apreciated.

Thanks

 
 
 

98, want to put linux on top

Post by Josh Ste » Sat, 05 Jun 1999 04:00:00



>I have a sony laptop running the pre installed 98. I have shrunk the primary
>partision down to 2 gigs, of the 4 avaliable. I want to install red hat 6 from
>cd. What hapopens to 98 if i do this and allow linux to do a workstation
>install. Will I still be able to go into 98. Do I have to do anything special
>to 98. 98 is on a FAT32 2 gig partision.

Laptops are tricky because of the hardware.  Try to find out as much detail
of your hardware devices (e.g. the video card in the Sony) and then read
the Linux Hardware HOWTO's or search for those keywords plus 'linux' at
www.deja.com to see if everything is supported and if any install tricks
are required.

Quote:>2. Can I transfer files from 98 to linux and vice versa, if so how.

The easy way is to have Linux mount the Windows drives and then it can
read and write to them, so you just communicate between the two by
storing the information on the FAT32 partition.

- Josh

 
 
 

98, want to put linux on top

Post by User9414 » Sat, 05 Jun 1999 04:00:00


I know of all the devices and nessasary info. From waht Ive heard its simple to
install and get working correctly.

But going back to my origial question. What happens if  is taking up the first
2 gigs of the hdd in fat 32. Will a linux installation muck up 98.

Quote:>>I have a sony laptop running the pre installed 98. I have shrunk the primary
>>partision down to 2 gigs, of the 4 avaliable. I want to install red hat 6
>from
>>cd. What hapopens to 98 if i do this and allow linux to do a workstation
>>install. Will I still be able to go into 98. Do I have to do anything
>special
>>to 98. 98 is on a FAT32 2 gig partision.

>Laptops are tricky because of the hardware.  Try to find out as much detail
>of your hardware devices (e.g. the video card in the Sony) and then read
>the Linux Hardware HOWTO's or search for those keywords plus 'linux' at
>www.deja.com to see if everything is supported and if any install tricks
>are required.

>>2. Can I transfer files from 98 to linux and vice versa, if so how.

>The easy way is to have Linux mount the Windows drives and then it can
>read and write to them, so you just communicate between the two by
>storing the information on the FAT32 partition.

>- Josh

 
 
 

98, want to put linux on top

Post by Josh Ste » Sat, 05 Jun 1999 04:00:00



>I know of all the devices and nessasary info. From waht Ive heard its simple to
>install and get working correctly.

Great!

Quote:>But going back to my origial question. What happens if  is taking up the first
>2 gigs of the hdd in fat 32. Will a linux installation muck up 98.

No, not in any meaningful sense.  The simplest solution is to put Lilo on
the master boot record of the drive and on bootup you can choose whether
to boot Linux or Win95.  It is easy to remove later if you want.  The
only problem is that if the files that Lilo needs to boot up Linux are
at cylinder 1023 or greater on the disk then it won't work.  In that
case you might need to use a program called loadlin.exe which runs
under DOS, and sits in the Win partition.  But it should be possible
to install this without messing anything up.  The other possibility
is to use a commercial product like System Commander.

- Josh

 
 
 

98, want to put linux on top

Post by User9414 » Sat, 05 Jun 1999 04:00:00


So Lilo is put onto the Win 9X partision(fat32) and win 98.

>>I know of all the devices and nessasary info. From waht Ive heard its simple
>to
>>install and get working correctly.

>Great!

>>But going back to my origial question. What happens if  is taking up the
>first
>>2 gigs of the hdd in fat 32. Will a linux installation muck up 98.

>No, not in any meaningful sense.  The simplest solution is to put Lilo on
>the master boot record of the drive and on bootup you can choose whether
>to boot Linux or Win95.  It is easy to remove later if you want.  The
>only problem is that if the files that Lilo needs to boot up Linux are
>at cylinder 1023 or greater on the disk then it won't work.  In that
>case you might need to use a program called loadlin.exe which runs
>under DOS, and sits in the Win partition.  But it should be possible
>to install this without messing anything up.  The other possibility
>is to use a commercial product like System Commander.

>- Josh

 
 
 

98, want to put linux on top

Post by Josh Ste » Sat, 05 Jun 1999 04:00:00



>So Lilo is put onto the Win 9X partision(fat32) and win 98.

Conceptually, there are 4 pieces to Lilo -
a) the 'boot finder' code
b) the 'boot loader' code
c) the config file
d) the executable (called lilo) that sets up a) and b) using c)

b)-d) sit in the Linux partition and a) usually goes in the space
between partitions.  Loadlin is a different package that would
get installed in the Win partition if you choose/need to use it.

- Josh

 
 
 

98, want to put linux on top

Post by Adam Constabar » Sun, 06 Jun 1999 04:00:00


: >So Lilo is put onto the Win 9X partision(fat32) and win 98.

Just to add to Josh Stern's note: LILO, in the normal case, ends up on the
MBR of the hard drive, not really on the Win partition (it installs no
new files that are visible on that partition.  The only difference you'll
notice after installing it is that you now have a choice at boot time as
to which OS you want to run.

If you suffer a sudden bout of insanity (!) and uninstall Linux, you can
always restore your MBR using "fdisk /MBR" in Dos98 <g>

Re: using LOADLIN.  Loadlin, plus a kernel image file, have to be stored
on the Win partition.  One reason I've shied away from using Loadlin is
that some hardware can't be used by Linux after a warm reboot.  If that's
not an issue with your hardware, though, I'd recommend that method (or a
boot floppy).

AC

 
 
 

98, want to put linux on top

Post by Josh Ste » Sun, 06 Jun 1999 04:00:00





>: >So Lilo is put onto the Win 9X partision(fat32) and win 98.

>Just to add to Josh Stern's note: LILO, in the normal case, ends up on the
>MBR of the hard drive, not really on the Win partition (it installs no
>new files that are visible on that partition.  The only difference you'll
>notice after installing it is that you now have a choice at boot time as
>to which OS you want to run.

Yes, the above was a typo I didn't notice (and was therefore surprosed by a later
followup question).  However see my later explanation in this thread of where
the 4 different pieces of a "Lilo" package actually live.

- Josh

 
 
 

98, want to put linux on top

Post by Michal Jaegerma » Mon, 07 Jun 1999 04:00:00


: No, not in any meaningful sense.  The simplest solution is to put Lilo on
: the master boot record of the drive and on bootup you can choose whether
     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: to boot Linux or Win95.

This is a road to insanity, especially when your other OS is NT,
as witnessed by a steady stream of questions "how I can remove lilo
from MBR".  The simplest asnwer is "by not putting it there in the
first place".  There are very infrequent situations when lilo __has__
to go on MBR and if you have one disk then you are __sure__ that you do
not need that.  And if can avoid that (i.e. most of time) then

           YOU DO NOT WANT YOUR LILO TO GO ON MBR.

(Rewrite the above hundred times to remember that for the future!)
Instead you want your lilo on a boot sector of a Linux partition which
you make active.  This will boot Linux and '98 and many others.  If your
Linux partitions are subpartitions of an "extended" partition then a
start of this extended one is also a good place for a lilo boot sector;
some BIOSes may prefer that.  Maybe a boot sector of a swap partition
is not so hot idea; frankly I never tried.

If your "other OS" happens to be NT then putting lilo on MBR will assure
you a fun time.  NT writes a "signature" there and will refuse to talk
to you if you overwrote it.  Also "service packs" and other "upgrades"
from M$ will overwrite MBR regardless what was there before and you
will be searching for your boot floppies to get your Linux back.  True,
these operations will also change an active partition, without asking any
questions, but even fdisk from DOS can flip that bit back.  So leave MBR
alone and let BillyG to play with himself.  Lilo not on MBR also makes
easy to take temporarily Linux and lilo out of the picture by changing,
with fdisk, which partition is active; a good move if you even have to
go with your computer to a service centre. :-)

BTW - lilo saves a contents on a "non-lilo" boot sector which it is going
to change so it it quite trivial to restore a "*" state with dd and
lilo docs have precise instruction how to do that.  A steady stream of
posting begging an answer for exactly this question only shows that docs
are not read; if they were I would not have to write all of the above.

  Michal

p.s.  If you wonder why distributions usually offer "lilo on MBR" as
the first choice the answer is that there are some layouts which can be
booted that way and which are out of BIOS reach otherwise.  So this is a
"safe" choice - of course until the "other" OS gets into a picture.

 
 
 

98, want to put linux on top

Post by Josh Ste » Mon, 07 Jun 1999 04:00:00




>: No, not in any meaningful sense.  The simplest solution is to put Lilo on
>: the master boot record of the drive and on bootup you can choose whether
>     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>: to boot Linux or Win95.
>This is a road to insanity, especially when your other OS is NT,

I have had good success with this method and NT.  I haven't used
any recent version of NT however, so perhaps Microsoft has
introduced some new "features" to*up everyting else in
the universe.

Quote:>as witnessed by a steady stream of questions "how I can remove lilo
>from MBR".  

Well there is the steady stream of answers:  fdisk /mbr
This can also be done from Linux, though I forget the exact syntax
(look up at deja.com)

Quote:>The simplest asnwer is "by not putting it there in the
>first place".  There are very infrequent situations when lilo __has__
>to go on MBR and if you have one disk then you are __sure__ that you do
>not need that.  And if can avoid that (i.e. most of time) then

For a lot of people the MBR solution is often the simplest and least
trouble free overall.  

Quote:>Instead you want your lilo on a boot sector of a Linux partition which
>you make active.  This will boot Linux and '98 and many others.  If your
>Linux partitions are subpartitions of an "extended" partition then a
>start of this extended one is also a good place for a lilo boot sector;
>some BIOSes may prefer that.  

I have had bad experiences with this and Win95 OSR2.x  With that OS,
the included fdisk only wants to make one primary partition and if
you want to allow Win95 to use a second partition that is a sub-partition
of the extended partition then it seems to cough up a hairball when Lilo is
at the start of the extended partition, and it refuses to work with
the second partition.

Quote:>If your "other OS" happens to be NT then putting lilo on MBR will assure
>you a fun time.  NT writes a "signature" there and will refuse to talk
>to you if you overwrote it.  

Is this a new Microsoft "feature"?  It was previously the case that if
you installed Win9x and then NT, the boot loaded for NT would get put
inside of the first partition to handle the choice of Win9x or NT,
and then putting Lilo on the MBR afterwards worked just fine with
that.

Quote:>Also "service packs" and other "upgrades"
>from M$ will overwrite MBR regardless what was there before and you
>will be searching for your boot floppies to get your Linux back.  

Then you mount the Linux partition, say under /mnt, and run
ROOT=/mnt lilo
to restore things.

- Josh

 
 
 

1. How do i put Win'98, NT and linux on the same machine

Hello Amit,

It depends on how much space you wanted to allocated for each OS. What I would
do is to fdisk your drive to 4 pieces (FAT16), install win98 into one of the
pieces, get comfortable with the hardware, install NT into your 2nd piece
(FAT16 or NTFS)..
The question is, do you want to allocate your 3rd partition as well as your
4th partition for linux? Next, you can begin installing linux to your 3rd
partition and 4th partition assuming your answer is YES to the above question.

One of my machines had exact win98, NT and Linux installed with a 8.4GB.
Win98 was mounted as /win while NT was mounted as /nt.
The default boot is Linux, typing "dos" would get me to the NT boot loader
where I can select NT or Win98.

Good Luck,

Cliff

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