Gurus: why x-window is slower than MS windows?

Gurus: why x-window is slower than MS windows?

Post by Erik de Castro Lop » Sat, 01 Apr 2000 04:00:00




> Hi, Gurus,

> Linux want to gets a share from the Microsoft,

I would debate this. IMHO Linux is trying to create a better OS.
This has nothing to do with micros~1 or windows.

Quote:> but this hard is possible in the home computing market, I think
> partly because the slowness and unfriendly X.

I use NT exclusively at work and Linux exculsively at home. I don't
consider X unfriendly. It is marginally slower than windows but has
capabilities and a configurability that windows can only dream of.

Quote:> Even now
> we have xfree86 4.0, the effect and speed still can't be compared with
> window, running netscape on X is a terrible experience really.
> What is the cause of
> this?

X provides features that windows doesn't. X is network transparent,
windows is not. X is configurable, windows is not.

Quote:> Another concern is that linux with gnome actually use more memory
> thatn win98,

So don't run gnome, I don't. With GNU/Linux/X you get options.

In addition, comparing Linux to win98 is ridiculous. win98 is a toy.
You should be comparing it to NT.

Quote:> I am wondering
> whether this openSource movement is a joke.

Thats a bit inflamatory don't you think?

Erik
--
+-------------------------------------------------+

+-------------------------------------------------+
Running MS-Windows on a Pentium is like having a brand new Porsche
but only be able to drive backwards with the handbrake on.

 
 
 

Gurus: why x-window is slower than MS windows?

Post by FreezerDwee » Sat, 01 Apr 2000 04:00:00


Open Source, A Joke? Don't read much do you?

CNN.com published an article recently (march 6) that predicts the
downfall of windoze in as little as 10 years. The prediction is that
Microshaft will either join the movement or get buried by it. Many
major players are beginning to port to Linux. It's only a matter of
time.

 
 
 

Gurus: why x-window is slower than MS windows?

Post by song » Sat, 01 Apr 2000 04:00:00


Hi, Gurus,

Linux want to gets a share from the Microsoft, but this hard is possible
in the home computing market, I think partly because the slowness and
unfriendly X. Even now
we have xfree86 4.0, the effect and speed still can't be compared with
window, running
netscape on X is a terrible experience really. What is the cause of
this? Another concern is that linux with gnome actually use more memory
thatn win98, I am wondering
whether this openSource movement is a joke.

Best,

James

 
 
 

Gurus: why x-window is slower than MS windows?

Post by David L. Johnso » Sat, 01 Apr 2000 04:00:00



> Open Source, A Joke? Don't read much do you?

> CNN.com published an article recently (march 6) that predicts the
> downfall of windoze in as little as 10 years.

What a joke.  Any prediction 10 years in advance in the computer industry is
just nonsense.  

--


Department of Mathematics  http://www.lehigh.edu/~dlj0/dlj0.html
Lehigh University
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on?"

--Lance Armstrong

 
 
 

Gurus: why x-window is slower than MS windows?

Post by song » Sat, 01 Apr 2000 04:00:00



> Open Source, A Joke? Don't read much do you?

> CNN.com published an article recently (march 6) that predicts the
> downfall of windoze in as little as 10 years. The prediction is that
> Microshaft will either join the movement or get buried by it. Many
> major players are beginning to port to Linux. It's only a matter of
> time.

Actually, I exaggerated a bit, I know this is a big thing in the future.
Don't you guys notice
the slowness of running netscape on linux? Is there a way of improving
this? If you don't
use gnome, what is better for the speed? Maybe I need to download some
more fonts
to have a similar visual effect as window98? Thanks. GO linux.
 
 
 

Gurus: why x-window is slower than MS windows?

Post by Hal Burgi » Sun, 02 Apr 2000 04:00:00




Quote:

>Actually, I exaggerated a bit, I know this is a big thing in the
>future.  Don't you guys notice the slowness of running netscape on
>linux?

No, not really. What is so slow about it?

Quote:>Is there a way of improving this? If you don't use gnome, what is
>better for the speed? Maybe I need to download some more fonts
>to have a similar visual effect as window98? Thanks. GO linux.

Do you have truetype working? This helps the look of many websites.

 http://www.linuxdoc.org/HOWTO/mini/FDU.html (De-uglification)
 http://home.c2i.net/dark/linux.html#ttf

--
Hal B

--

 
 
 

Gurus: why x-window is slower than MS windows?

Post by Erik de Castro Lop » Sun, 02 Apr 2000 04:00:00



> Actually, I exaggerated a bit, I know this is a big thing in the future.
> Don't you guys notice
> the slowness of running netscape on linux?

No, but I do notice that Netscape is a a memory and resource hog, but
thats is mainly because it has a huge set of libraries statically linked
in.

Quote:> Is there a way of improving this?

More memory will help. I consider 64Meg a minimum if you are running
Netscape and/or Gnome.

Quote:> If you don't
> use gnome, what is better for the speed?

Just about anything. I run a stripped down fvwm95. Windowmaker, IceWM
and blackbox are also all worth considering.

Erik
--
+-------------------------------------------------+

+-------------------------------------------------+
"There are two ways of constructing a software design. One way is
 to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies
 and the other is to make it so complicated that there are no
 obvious deficiencies."  --  C A R Hoare

 
 
 

Gurus: why x-window is slower than MS windows?

Post by afir051 » Sun, 02 Apr 2000 04:00:00


Hello Sir

Quote:> Hi, Gurus,

> Linux want to gets a share from the Microsoft, but this hard is possible
> in the home computing market, I think partly because the slowness and
> unfriendly X.

Unfriendly of X? Well lets loook I rescently put Win2k Server on a PC with
64Mb - it Crashed at least 3 times a day, I could not install Office =(.
Then I started device manager - IE5+Messanger+ outlook 2k=100Mb of
memmory!!!!!
 But in Linux I installed, I had 0 (!!) swap file usage!!!!!!!! Feel the
diffirence!
Then X has better Screeensavers, and u can configure X in broader way. In
win ur are limited. So the choice is urs!

/aseac

 
 
 

Gurus: why x-window is slower than MS windows?

Post by j.. » Mon, 03 Apr 2000 05:00:00


    Well in response to the slowness of X, yes it does seem a little slower in
terms of not being snappy when you open a pull down menu compared to win 95 or
NT on the same machine. HOWEVER, I'm pleased by the multitasking aspect of
Linux and how when I open a program, say Netscape, I can go to anther part of
the screen and continue working as if nothing has happened. Try to use this to
your best advantage and I hope you'll agree that Linux can be much faster with
a little tuning of YOUR practices. This is one of the main reasons why I
switched to Linux. (yes there will still be times when the system temporarily
"hangs" trying to do some very large tasks, ie large PDF files, then again
I'm using a P133)
    As stated below, and I'll say again, KDE/Gnome are both hogs and with a
little tuning of one of the smaller Window Managers it'll do all that you want
AND more with little expense of memory and processor time.

    See below, for example the resident size of fvwm2 is 780K, compared to
gnuplot 628K and X itself 5.5MB, each term is 300K (rxvt), not bad I could
easily get by w/ less than 16mb of memory. Translating to 48mb this means that
I can run A LOT of programs at once and still barely ever swap! Ohh I added
netscape, 11.7mb, 15X larger than fvwm2 and 2X larger than X, which one
(netscape or X) has to do more things, hummm I guess netscape is poorly done...

[ps. I just quoted the resident sizes since shared resources are still a
little shady to me and I can't put my finger on just what number really makes
the most sense since I haven't bothered to track down just how many libs are
being shared by what etc..., but resident sounds like a reasonable measure. :) ]

john       490  0.0  1.6  2312  780 tty1     S    Mar13   0:29 fvwm2
xfs        420  0.0  0.1  2352   60 ?        S    Mar13   0:01 xfs -droppriv
john       496  0.0  0.6  2372  296 tty1     S    Mar13   0:38 rxvt -bg black
john       492  0.0  0.7  2572  328 tty1     S    Mar13   0:24 xclock -digital
john     12187  0.0  1.9  2640  932 pts/3    R    14:44   0:00 ps -auxO v
john      3152  0.0  1.2  2800  596 pts/5    S    Mar17   0:04 gnuplot_x11
john      3151  0.0  1.3  2968  628 pts/5    S    Mar17   0:36 gnuplot
john       493  0.0  1.6  3084  752 tty1     S    Mar13   0:50 xscreensaver
john     12149  0.2  3.7  3364 1752 tty1     S    14:30   0:02 xterm -bg black
root      3135  1.1  0.0  5640    0 pts/4    RW   Mar17 17442:32 xdos
root       486  2.1 11.7  9644 5504 ?        S    Mar13 3480:40 /etc/X11/X :0
john     12190 20.1 24.9 20256 11672 tty1    S    14:50   0:05 netscape

    Ultimately the decision is YOURS and yours alone, good luck.

                                                            -John


> writes:

>> Actually, I exaggerated a bit, I know this is a big thing in the future.
>> Don't you guys notice
>> the slowness of running netscape on linux?

>No, but I do notice that Netscape is a a memory and resource hog, but
>thats is mainly because it has a huge set of libraries statically linked
>in.

>> Is there a way of improving this?

>More memory will help. I consider 64Meg a minimum if you are running
>Netscape and/or Gnome.

>> If you don't
>> use gnome, what is better for the speed?

>Just about anything. I run a stripped down fvwm95. Windowmaker, IceWM
>and blackbox are also all worth considering.

>Erik
>--
>+-------------------------------------------------+

>+-------------------------------------------------+
>"There are two ways of constructing a software design. One way is
> to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies
> and the other is to make it so complicated that there are no
> obvious deficiencies."  --  C A R Hoare

 
 
 

Gurus: why x-window is slower than MS windows?

Post by Michael Kel » Mon, 03 Apr 2000 05:00:00




[snip]

Quote:>     As stated below, and I'll say again, KDE/Gnome are both hogs and with a
> little tuning of one of the smaller Window Managers it'll do all that you want
> AND more with little expense of memory and processor time.

I have to agree with your observations.  Sometimes I do like to read ngs
much more using Agent in Win9x/NT but afa loading up a system and it
being solid X is better.  My old system with 16 MB ram and 486/50 processor
I could run emacs, netscape a few utilities and a couple of xterms, plus
do(slow) compiles and it never hard locked.  I'm just curious about you
experience with the window managers.  I was on Slackware on the 486 for
a few years and then got away from Linux until I got this new pentium III
machine, so I'm not up on all the changes(I'm running TurboLinux 4.0
workstation with the default X setup TurboDesk I guess) and it seems fine,
but I'm curious to get the benefit of your expriences with the other
managers(I used to use fvwm on a 2.0.27 kernel on the old machine.)

TIA

--

Mike
--
"I don't want to belong to any club that would have *me* as a member!"
             -- Groucho Marx

 
 
 

Gurus: why x-window is slower than MS windows?

Post by <f4d3d.. » Mon, 03 Apr 2000 05:00:00



> Hi, Gurus,

> Linux want to gets a share from the Microsoft, but this hard is possible
> in the home computing market, I think partly because the slowness and
> unfriendly X. Even now
> we have xfree86 4.0, the effect and speed still can't be compared with
> window, running
> netscape on X is a terrible experience really. What is the cause of
> this? Another concern is that linux with gnome actually use more memory
> thatn win98, I am wondering
> whether this openSource movement is a joke.

> Best,

> James

Uh... to your "educated" post regarding the speed of X/Linux... I really
honestly dont think that "X" as you put it being "slow" and "unfriendly"
has anything to do with the configuration of the desktop environment or
window manager that you have chose to use. I am really sorry to say that
the Linux community has got this reputation for being anti-Micro$oft, when
infact (granted I cant stand it myself) its not that Linux is trying to
replace Windows... no..no..no.. there are far to many (lest just say) end
users out there who dont want to have to think about diffrent options and
possibilities, and would much rather be spoon fed "choices" by large
corperations who capitalize on there ignorance...
                                      Thanx for letting me vent,
                                                        ~f4d3d

--
Posted via CNET Help.com
http://www.help.com/

 
 
 

Gurus: why x-window is slower than MS windows?

Post by sickgu » Tue, 04 Apr 2000 04:00:00


OK here goes. Im not a Unix / Linux freak and I have an opened mind on
this sort of thing. I own a computer business and do networking. Linux
isnt a good choice for home user based os, thats silly. However Linux
excellent as a network server. All the ISP's i know that run a form of
Unix never have system crashes and the 3 ISP's i know of that run NT have
trouble all the time. With SAMBA running the Linux on a network is great,
does everything NT server does + all you can do on back office aswell.
With a Linux server you can basicly disconnect the monitor, keyboard,
mouse, etc and let it do its thing in a dark room somewhere while under
extreem load from the network and you never have to configure it or save
it from a system crash or nothing. Its great. But really poor, really bad
for a home user, but it was never designed for home use. Yep, win95 and 98
best for home use. You cant compare Linux to Win98 because two different
things.

--
Posted via CNET Help.com
http://www.help.com/

 
 
 

Gurus: why x-window is slower than MS windows?

Post by Jim Ros » Tue, 04 Apr 2000 04:00:00



Quote:> X-Windows may be slower under your circumstances than windows, but you
> must consider the scale of the matter. Windows is ultimately simple, and
> you will find that as things get more advanced they become less user
> friendly.

> In fact, I would hesitate to compare Windows to Linux at all. Linux is, as
> far as I'm concerned, a completely different product. I consider windows
> inferior, although some people may argue the case. Admittedly, X-windows
> can be sluggish at times, especially with products such as Netscape and
> Star Office, however My experience has demonstrated that Netscape isn't
> much better under Windows,

<snip>

I have to say it think Netscape in Linux is worse than it's Windows
counterpart, starting
with the Linux version being written in Motif, and the disadvantages that
entails.

And StarOffice was by design a dog.  It is the most highly intergrated
office suite I've ever seen.
Jim

 
 
 

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--
thx, Jarda

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