Very Computer

by **Marin Pred** » Mon, 25 Dec 2000 03:53:35

Hi.

I would like to know what's the current refresh rate and how could be
increased. The screen is flickering a little on white backgrounds and I
don't like that.

Here are some details:

ATI 3D Rage Pro AGP 1X/2X, 8 MB
XF86_Mach64
Monitor ViewSonic G773

At this moment X runs at 1280x1064. I used Xconfigurator. My
distribution is Redhat7.
I have in /etc/X11 two files, XF86Config and XF86Config-4.
See below some extracts.

My questions are:

1. What's the current refresh rate and how can I determine that?
2. What to do in order to change it (even by sacrifying the color
depth)?
3. I understood there's an ati driver. Should I use it? Does it have an
advantage over the Mach64 one?

Cheers,
Marin

---
XF86Config:

# Any number of monitor sections may be present

Section "Monitor"

Identifier "ViewSonic G773"
VendorName "Unknown"
ModelName "Unknown"

# HorizSync is in kHz unless units are specified.
# HorizSync may be a comma separated list of discrete values, or a
# comma separated list of ranges of values.
# NOTE: THE VALUES HERE ARE EXAMPLES ONLY. REFER TO YOUR MONITOR'S
# USER MANUAL FOR THE CORRECT NUMBERS.

HorizSync 30-70

# VertRefresh is in Hz unless units are specified.
# VertRefresh may be a comma separated list of discrete values, or a
# comma separated list of ranges of values.
# NOTE: THE VALUES HERE ARE EXAMPLES ONLY. REFER TO YOUR MONITOR'S
# USER MANUAL FOR THE CORRECT NUMBERS.

VertRefresh 50-160

# Modes can be specified in two formats. A compact one-line format, or
# a multi-line format.

# These two are equivalent

# ModeLine "1024x768i" 45 1024 1048 1208 1264 768 776 784 817
Interlace

# Mode "1024x768i"
# DotClock 45
# HTimings 1024 1048 1208 1264
# VTimings 768 776 784 817
# Flags "Interlace"
# EndMode

# This is a set of standard mode timings. Modes that are out of monitor
spec
# are automatically deleted by the server (provided the HorizSync and
# VertRefresh lines are correct), so there's no immediate need to
# delete mode timings (unless particular mode timings don't work on your
# monitor). With these modes, the best standard mode that your monitor
# and video card can support for a given resolution is automatically
# used.

# 512x384 @ 78 Hz, 31.50 kHz hsync
Modeline "512x384" 20.160 512 528 592 640 384 385 388 404
-HSync -VSync
# 512x384 @ 85 Hz, 34.38 kHz hsync
Modeline "512x384" 22 512 528 592 640 384 385 388 404
-HSync -VSync

# 640x400 @ 70 Hz, 31.5 kHz hsync
Modeline "640x400" 25.175 640 664 760 800 400 409 411 450
# 640x400 @ 85 Hz, 37.86 kHz hsync
Modeline "640x400" 31.5 640 672 736 832 400 401 404 445
-HSync +VSync

# 640x480 @ 100 Hz, 53.01 kHz hsync
Modeline "640x480" 45.8 640 672 768 864 480 488 494 530
-HSync -VSync
# 640x480 @ 60 Hz, 31.5 kHz hsync
Modeline "640x480" 25.175 640 664 760 800 480 491 493 525
# 640x480 @ 72 Hz, 36.5 kHz hsync
Modeline "640x480" 31.5 640 680 720 864 480 488 491 521
# 640x480 @ 75 Hz, 37.50 kHz hsync
ModeLine "640x480" 31.5 640 656 720 840 480 481 484 500
-HSync -VSync
# 640x480 @ 85 Hz, 43.27 kHz hsync

Modeline "640x480" 36 640 696 752 832 480 481 484 509
-HSync -VSync
# 800x600 @ 100 Hz, 64.02 kHz hsync
Modeline "800x600" 69.65 800 864 928 1088 600 604 610 640
-HSync -VSync
# 800x600 @ 56 Hz, 35.15 kHz hsync
ModeLine "800x600" 36 800 824 896 1024 600 601 603 625
# 800x600 @ 60 Hz, 37.8 kHz hsync
Modeline "800x600" 40 800 840 968 1056 600 601 605 628
+hsync +vsync
# 800x600 @ 72 Hz, 48.0 kHz hsync
Modeline "800x600" 50 800 856 976 1040 600 637 643 666
+hsync +vsync
# 800x600 @ 85 Hz, 55.84 kHz hsync
Modeline "800x600" 60.75 800 864 928 1088 600 616 621 657
-HSync -VSync

# 1024x480 for certain Vaios
Modeline "1024x480" 65 1024 1032 1176 1344 480 491 493 525 -HSync
-VSync

# 1024x768 @ 100Hz, 80.21 kHz hsync
Modeline "1024x768" 115.5 1024 1056 1248 1440 768 771 781 802
-HSync -VSync
# 1024x768 @ 60 Hz, 48.4 kHz hsync
Modeline "1024x768" 65 1024 1032 1176 1344 768 771 777 806
-hsync -vsync
# 1024x768 @ 70 Hz, 56.5 kHz hsync
Modeline "1024x768" 75 1024 1048 1184 1328 768 771 777 806
-hsync -vsync
# 1024x768 @ 76 Hz, 62.5 kHz hsync
Modeline "1024x768" 85 1024 1032 1152 1360 768 784 787 823
# 1024x768 @ 85 Hz, 70.24 kHz hsync
Modeline "1024x768" 98.9 1024 1056 1216 1408 768 782 788 822 -HSync
-VSync

# 1152x864 @ 100 Hz, 89.62 kHz hsync
Modeline "1152x864" 137.65 1152 1184 1312 1536 864 866 885 902
-HSync -VSync
# 1152x864 @ 60 Hz, 53.5 kHz hsync
Modeline "1152x864" 89.9 1152 1216 1472 1680 864 868 876 892
-HSync -VSync
# 1152x864 @ 70 Hz, 62.4 kHz hsync
Modeline "1152x864" 92 1152 1208 1368 1474 864 865 875 895
# 1152x864 @ 78 Hz, 70.8 kHz hsync
Modeline "1152x864" 110 1152 1240 1324 1552 864 864 876 908
# 1152x864 @ 84 Hz, 76.0 kHz hsync
Modeline "1152x864" 135 1152 1464 1592 1776 864 864 876 908

# 1280x960 @ 60 HzModeline "1280x960" 108 1280 1376 1488 1800 960
961 964 1000 +HSync +VSync
# 1280x960 @ 85 HzModeline "1280x960" 148.5 1280 1344 1504 1728 960
961 964 1011 +HSync +VSync

# 1280x1024 @ 100 Hz, 107.16 kHz hsync
Modeline "1280x1024" 181.75 1280 1312 1440 1696 1024 1031 1046 1072
-HSync -VSync
# 1280x1024 @ 61 Hz, 64.2 kHz hsync
Modeline "1280x1024" 110 1280 1328 1512 1712 1024 1025 1028 1054
# 1280x1024 @ 70 Hz, 74.59 kHz hsync
Modeline "1280x1024" 126.5 1280 1312 1472 1696 1024 1032 1040 1068
-HSync -VSync
# 1280x1024 @ 74 Hz, 78.85 kHz hsync
Modeline "1280x1024" 135 1280 1312 1456 1712 1024 1027 1030 1064
# 1280x1024 @ 76 Hz, 81.13 kHz hsync
Modeline "1280x1024" 135 1280 1312 1416 1664 1024 1027 1030 1064
# 1280x1024 @ 85 Hz, 91.15 kHz hsync
Modeline "1280x1024" 157.5 1280 1344 1504 1728 1024 1025 1028 1072
+HSync +VSync

# 1600x1200 @ 60Hz, 75.00 kHz hsync
Modeline "1600x1200" 162 1600 1664 1856 2160 1200 1201 1204 1250
+HSync +VSync
# 1600x1200 @ 70 Hz, 87.50 kHz hsync
Modeline "1600x1200" 189 1600 1664 1856 2160 1200 1201 1204 1250
-HSync -VSync
# 1600x1200 @ 75 Hz, 93.75 kHz hsync
Modeline "1600x1200" 202.5 1600 1664 1856 2160 1200 1201 1204 1250
+HSync +VSync
# 1600x1200 @ 85 Hz, 105.77 kHz hsync
Modeline "1600x1200" 220 1600 1616 1808 2080 1200 1204 1207 1244
+HSync +VSync

# 1800x1440 @ 64Hz, 96.15 kHz hsync
ModeLine "1800X1440" 230 1800 1896 2088 2392 1440 1441 1444 1490
+HSync +VSync
# 1800x1440 @ 70Hz, 104.52 kHz hsync
ModeLine "1800X1440" 250 1800 1896 2088 2392 1440 1441 1444 1490
+HSync +VSync

# Low-res Doublescan modes
# If your chipset does not support doublescan, you get a 'squashed'
# resolution like 320x400.

# 320x200 @ 70 Hz, 31.5 kHz hsync, 8:5 aspect ratio
Modeline "320x200" 12.588 320 336 384 400 200 204 205 225
Doublescan
# 320x240 @ 60 Hz, 31.5 kHz hsync, 4:3 aspect ratio
Modeline "320x240" 12.588 320 336 384 400 240 245 246 262
Doublescan
# 320x240 @ 72 Hz, 36.5 kHz hsync
Modeline "320x240" 15.750 320 336 384 400 240 244 246 262
Doublescan
# 400x300 @ 56 Hz, 35.2 kHz hsync, 4:3 aspect ratio
ModeLine "400x300" 18 400 416 448 512 300 301 302 312
Doublescan
# 400x300 @ 60 Hz, 37.8 kHz hsync
Modeline "400x300" 20 400 416 480 528 300 301 303 314
Doublescan
# 400x300 @ 72 Hz, 48.0 kHz hsync
Modeline "400x300" 25 400 424 488 520 300 319 322 333
Doublescan
# 480x300 @ 56 Hz, 35.2 kHz hsync, 8:5 aspect ratio
ModeLine "480x300" 21.656 480 496 536 616 300 301 302 312
Doublescan
# 480x300 @ 60 Hz, 37.8 kHz hsync
Modeline "480x300" 23.890 480 496 576 632 300 301 303 314
Doublescan
# 480x300 @ 63 Hz, 39.6 kHz hsync
Modeline "480x300" 25 480 496 576 632 300 301 303 314
Doublescan
# 480x300 @ 72 Hz, 48.0 kHz hsync
Modeline "480x300" 29.952 480 504 584 624 300 319 322 333
Doublescan

EndSection

# **********************************************************************
# Graphics device section
# **********************************************************************

# Any number of graphics device sections may be present

Section "Device"
Identifier "Generic VGA"
VendorName "Unknown"
BoardName "Unknown"
Chipset "generic"

# VideoRam 256

# Clocks 25.2 28.3

EndSection

# Device configured by Xconfigurator:

Section "Device"
Identifier "ATI|3D Rage Pro AGP 1X/2X"
VendorName "Unknown"
BoardName "Unknown"
#VideoRam 8192
# Insert Clocks lines here if appropriate
EndSection

# **********************************************************************
# Screen sections
# **********************************************************************

# The Colour SVGA server

Section "Screen"
Driver "svga"
Device "Generic VGA"
#Device "ATI|3D Rage Pro AGP 1X/2X"
Monitor "ViewSonic G773"
Subsection "Display"
Depth 8
#Modes (null)
ViewPort 0 0
EndSubsection
EndSection

# The 16-color VGA server

Section "Screen"
Driver "vga16"
Device "Generic VGA"
Monitor "ViewSonic G773"
Subsection "Display"
Modes "640x480" "800x600"
ViewPort 0 0
EndSubsection
EndSection

# The Mono server

Section "Screen"
Driver "vga2"
Device "Generic VGA"
Monitor "ViewSonic G773"
Subsection "Display"
Modes "640x480" "800x600"
ViewPort 0 0
EndSubsection
EndSection

# The accelerated servers (S3, Mach32, Mach8, 8514, P9000, AGX, W32,
Mach64
# I128, and S3V)
Section "Screen"
Driver "accel"
Device "ATI|3D Rage Pro AGP 1X/2X"
Monitor "ViewSonic G773"
DefaultColorDepth 16
Subsection "Display"
Depth 16
Modes "1280x1024"
...

read more »

by **emc..** » Mon, 25 Dec 2000 06:35:47

> ATI 3D Rage Pro AGP 1X/2X, 8 MB
> XF86_Mach64

I assume from this you're using XF86 3.3.x. I'd suggest upgrading to
4.0.1 or 4.0.2. Although (relatively) new, 4.0.1 has much improved
support for modern hardware, like 3D acceleration.

Quote:> Monitor ViewSonic G773
[...]
> I have in /etc/X11 two files, XF86Config and XF86Config-4.

XF86Config is the 3.3.x config file. XF86Config-4 is the 4.0.x config
file.

Quote:> 1. What's the current refresh rate and how can I determine that?

Most monitors have a menu option to display this. On my monitor, I
can just press the brightness or contrast buttons. On some ViewSonics
I've worked with, the menu option is something like "Monitor."

Quote:> 2. What to do in order to change it (even by sacrifying the color
> depth)?

Refresh frequency has nothing to do with scan rate. I'm almost
willing to guarantee that your video card is capable of producing an
output signal significantly higher than anything your monitor can
display.

X should automatically choose the best refresh rate it can. If
Xconfigurator, for some reason, was unable to discover anything useful
about your monitor (like if it's an old one and doesn't grok DDC), it
will have set up the VESA defaults, which are painfully low.

So what you need to do is look in your monitor's reference manual or
on ViewSonic's web site for the vertical and horizontal refresh
frequencies of your monitor. Then re-run Xconfigurator and choose to
enter values by hand.

Quote:> 3. I understood there's an ati driver. Should I use it? Does it have an
> advantage over the Mach64 one?

XF86 4.0.x uses a unified driver executable. I don't know if you
should be using ATI or Mach64 for 3.3.x; I don't have an ATI card.

Quote:> HorizSync 30-70

This is, indeed, painfully low. The human eye stops detecting flicker
at around 75Hz (some higher, some lower). If this is really the best
your monitor can do, I'd suggest using 800x600, where 70Hz might be
acceptable.

Me, I get dizzy unless the refresh rate is at least 80Hz.

--

"Luckily I have the fashion sense of a colorblind street *
freebasing * through a gunpowder funnel, so it all works out."
- Something Awful, 12/19/2000

by **Marin Pred** » Mon, 25 Dec 2000 14:58:39

Thank you for the info. I took a look and my monitor is indeed the
problem. It can run at 75Hz (which is fine for me) at 1152x864 and just
60Hz at 1280x1024. I changed then to 1152x864. The next step could be
only a monitor upgrade.

Cheers,
Marin

> > ATI 3D Rage Pro AGP 1X/2X, 8 MB
> > XF86_Mach64

> I assume from this you're using XF86 3.3.x. I'd suggest upgrading to
> 4.0.1 or 4.0.2. Although (relatively) new, 4.0.1 has much improved
> support for modern hardware, like 3D acceleration.

> > Monitor ViewSonic G773
> [...]
> > I have in /etc/X11 two files, XF86Config and XF86Config-4.

> XF86Config is the 3.3.x config file. XF86Config-4 is the 4.0.x config
> file.

> > 1. What's the current refresh rate and how can I determine that?

> Most monitors have a menu option to display this. On my monitor, I
> can just press the brightness or contrast buttons. On some ViewSonics
> I've worked with, the menu option is something like "Monitor."

> > 2. What to do in order to change it (even by sacrifying the color
> > depth)?

> Refresh frequency has nothing to do with scan rate. I'm almost
> willing to guarantee that your video card is capable of producing an
> output signal significantly higher than anything your monitor can
> display.

> X should automatically choose the best refresh rate it can. If
> Xconfigurator, for some reason, was unable to discover anything useful
> about your monitor (like if it's an old one and doesn't grok DDC), it
> will have set up the VESA defaults, which are painfully low.

> So what you need to do is look in your monitor's reference manual or
> on ViewSonic's web site for the vertical and horizontal refresh
> frequencies of your monitor. Then re-run Xconfigurator and choose to
> enter values by hand.

> > 3. I understood there's an ati driver. Should I use it? Does it have an
> > advantage over the Mach64 one?

> XF86 4.0.x uses a unified driver executable. I don't know if you
> should be using ATI or Mach64 for 3.3.x; I don't have an ATI card.

> > HorizSync 30-70

> This is, indeed, painfully low. The human eye stops detecting flicker
> at around 75Hz (some higher, some lower). If this is really the best
> your monitor can do, I'd suggest using 800x600, where 70Hz might be
> acceptable.

> Me, I get dizzy unless the refresh rate is at least 80Hz.

> --

> "Luckily I have the fashion sense of a colorblind street *
> freebasing * through a gunpowder funnel, so it all works out."
> - Something Awful, 12/19/2000

by **Anita Lew** » Mon, 25 Dec 2000 10:57:43

Since this is long and I want to leave parts of the XF86Config file I'll put
my reply here.

I don't know how you can get the refresh rate, but I believe that X will use
the first Modeline for the resolution that it comes to, if that Modeline
will work. Otherwise it will toss it and get the next one. In your Screen
Section you have only one resolution and one color depth. That is a
moderately high resolution, but you have 8 MB VideoRam; so you should be
able to get a fair refresh rate. Your monitor goes up to 160 Vert Refresh
so no problem there.

Looking in the list of Modelines for that resolution, the first has 100Hz
which would be lovely. So we would assume that X is choosing that one, but
it could be that it is getting tossed out and the next one at 61 Hz is
chosen. You could find out by doing 'startx &> startxlog' and look at the
log to see what Modelines are getting tossed and for what reason. Or, you
could just edit XF86Config and comment out the 100Hz Modeline and the 61Hz
Modeline and see if it looks better. In fact you could comment them all out
down to 85Hz and leave just that one to see if it works and if so, if it is
better. If it is the only 1280x1024 Modeline that is not commented out,
then if X starts, it will be with that Modeline and therefore that refresh
rate.

I'm pretty sure that will help the flicker, if it has to do with refresh
rate and not the need of some Option listed in the README.ati. Changing the
color depth might give you the 100Hz Modeline, but I'd try one of the others
first. To change the color depth, you would edit XF86Config and just make
that an 8 for Depth rather than 16.

If you want to try using 4.0.1, you need to change the link to the server.
Do 'cd /etc/X11' and then 'ls -l X' to see the path to the XF86_Mach64
server. Then do 'rm X' and 'ln -s /<path-to-server>/XFree86 X' and that
will put the 4.0.1 server in place. When you do startx, it will take its
cue from that XF86Config-4. RH7 has sort of a hybrid setup for X.

The Mach servers are the ATI servers as far as I know and the newer ones are
Mach64. I have a Rage IIC using that server.

Before you edit XF86Config, back it up with 'cp XF86Config XF86Config.orig'

Anita

>Hi.

>I would like to know what's the current refresh rate and how could be
>increased. The screen is flickering a little on white backgrounds and I
>don't like that.

>Here are some details:

>ATI 3D Rage Pro AGP 1X/2X, 8 MB
>XF86_Mach64
>Monitor ViewSonic G773

>At this moment X runs at 1280x1064. I used Xconfigurator. My
>distribution is Redhat7.
>I have in /etc/X11 two files, XF86Config and XF86Config-4.
>See below some extracts.

>My questions are:

>1. What's the current refresh rate and how can I determine that?
>2. What to do in order to change it (even by sacrifying the color
>depth)?
>3. I understood there's an ati driver. Should I use it? Does it have an
>advantage over the Mach64 one?

>Cheers,
>Marin
>---
>XF86Config:

># Any number of monitor sections may be present

>Section "Monitor"

> Identifier "ViewSonic G773"
> VendorName "Unknown"
> ModelName "Unknown"

># HorizSync is in kHz unless units are specified.
># HorizSync may be a comma separated list of discrete values, or a
># comma separated list of ranges of values.
># NOTE: THE VALUES HERE ARE EXAMPLES ONLY. REFER TO YOUR MONITOR'S
># USER MANUAL FOR THE CORRECT NUMBERS.

> HorizSync 30-70

># VertRefresh is in Hz unless units are specified.
># VertRefresh may be a comma separated list of discrete values, or a
># comma separated list of ranges of values.
># NOTE: THE VALUES HERE ARE EXAMPLES ONLY. REFER TO YOUR MONITOR'S
># USER MANUAL FOR THE CORRECT NUMBERS.

> VertRefresh 50-160

># Modes can be specified in two formats. A compact one-line format, or
># a multi-line format.

- Show quoted text -

>Modeline "1280x1024" 181.75 1280 1312 1440 1696 1024 1031 1046 1072
>-HSync -VSync

>Modeline "1280x1024" 110 1280 1328 1512 1712 1024 1025 1028 1054

>Modeline "1280x1024" 126.5 1280 1312 1472 1696 1024 1032 1040 1068
>-HSync -VSync

>Modeline "1280x1024" 135 1280 1312 1456 1712 1024 1027 1030 1064

>Modeline "1280x1024" 135 1280 1312 1416 1664 1024 1027 1030 1064

>Modeline "1280x1024" 157.5 1280 1344 1504 1728 1024 1025 1028 1072
>+HSync +VSync

>EndSection

># **********************************************************************
># Graphics device section
># **********************************************************************

># Device configured by Xconfigurator:

>Section "Device"
> Identifier "ATI|3D Rage Pro AGP 1X/2X"
> VendorName "Unknown"
> BoardName "Unknown"
> #VideoRam 8192
> # Insert Clocks lines here if appropriate
>EndSection

># **********************************************************************
># Screen sections
># **********************************************************************

<snip>

- Show quoted text -

Quote:># The accelerated servers (S3, Mach32, Mach8, 8514, P9000, AGX, W32,
>Mach64
># I128, and S3V)
>Section "Screen"
> Driver "accel"
> Device "ATI|3D Rage Pro AGP 1X/2X"
> Monitor "ViewSonic G773"
> DefaultColorDepth 16
> Subsection "Display"
> Depth 16
> Modes "1280x1024"
> ViewPort 0 0
> EndSubsection
>EndSection

by **Anita Lew** » Tue, 26 Dec 2000 04:10:22

>Since this is long and I want to leave parts of the XF86Config file I'll put
>my reply here.

>I don't know how you can get the refresh rate, but I believe that X will use
>the first Modeline for the resolution that it comes to, if that Modeline
>will work. Otherwise it will toss it and get the next one. In your Screen
>Section you have only one resolution and one color depth. That is a
>moderately high resolution, but you have 8 MB VideoRam; so you should be
>able to get a fair refresh rate.

I meant you could do high color depth with 8MB. It wouldn't help you with
the refresh rate.

Anita

by **Tim Robert** » Thu, 28 Dec 2000 11:57:14

>> > HorizSync 30-70

>> This is, indeed, painfully low. The human eye stops detecting flicker
>> at around 75Hz (some higher, some lower). If this is really the best
>> your monitor can do, I'd suggest using 800x600, where 70Hz might be
>> acceptable.

Note that the range you quoted is the HORIZONTAL rate (in kHz), not the
VERTICAL rate (in Hz). The line immediately following this in the original
article was:

VertRefresh 50-160

30-70 is a rather healthy range for horizontal sync.
--

Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.

Very Computer

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