Peculiar unicode/TT font problem: missing/wrong punctuation characters

Peculiar unicode/TT font problem: missing/wrong punctuation characters

Post by D. D. Brierto » Tue, 25 Jun 2002 22:59:43



I have rather a peculiar problem. It's NOT the usual problem with web pages
written with numeric entities between 129 and 159 from Microsoft Window's
CP1252. At first I thought it was, but then I realised that a lot of web pages
I was viewing in Mozilla 1.0.0 were displaying incorrectly despite the fact
that were using the *correct* named/decima/hex entites to include em and en
dashes and curly/smart quotes using.

I thought that perhaps this was a general problem, but I went to this page:

http://www.hclrss.demon.co.uk/demos/ent4_frame.html

and could see that in fact all of characters in the right frame display
correctly EXCEPT a few punctuation characters, such as dashes and quote
marks. I have put up a web page listing the characters together with a
screenshot of how they are displaying in my browser:

http://www.dzr-web.com/unicode-test.html

This is weird. Non latin scripts, such as Greek, Cyrillic, Arabic and various
East Asian scripts display properly. I have installed the Microsoft True Type
Core Web Fonts, using Mandrake's drakfont utility (I'm using Mandrake 8.1).
Why would just these few characters not display properly? It's also
frustrating because those characters are very commonly used (for instance,
see http://www.alistapart.com/ ).

I don't know whether it is a Mozilla problem or a problem with how my fonts
have been set up, but I suspect that it is the latter (I doubt Mozilla 1.0.0
would have been released without this problem being spotted). I've been
searching google for something about this and can't find anything. Does
anyone have a clue what might be the problem?

TIA for any help anyone might be able to offer.

Best, Darren

P.S. I thought it might be a problem with my preferences, so I created a test
user and let Mozilla start up with its out of the box defaults and the
problem recurred. So I guess it is either my font setup or Mozilla.

--
======================================================================

        Trying is the first step before failure (Homer Simpson)
======================================================================

 
 
 

Peculiar unicode/TT font problem: missing/wrong punctuation characters

Post by RKAA » Tue, 25 Jun 2002 23:18:18



> I have rather a peculiar problem. It's NOT the usual problem with web pages
> written with numeric entities between 129 and 159 from Microsoft Window's
> CP1252. At first I thought it was, but then I realised that a lot of web pages
> I was viewing in Mozilla 1.0.0 were displaying incorrectly despite the fact
> that were using the *correct* named/decima/hex entites to include em and en
> dashes and curly/smart quotes using.

> I thought that perhaps this was a general problem, but I went to this page:

> http://www.hclrss.demon.co.uk/demos/ent4_frame.html

> and could see that in fact all of characters in the right frame display
> correctly EXCEPT a few punctuation characters, such as dashes and quote
> marks. I have put up a web page listing the characters together with a
> screenshot of how they are displaying in my browser:

> http://www.dzr-web.com/unicode-test.html

> This is weird. Non latin scripts, such as Greek, Cyrillic, Arabic and various
> East Asian scripts display properly. I have installed the Microsoft True Type
> Core Web Fonts, using Mandrake's drakfont utility (I'm using Mandrake 8.1).
> Why would just these few characters not display properly? It's also
> frustrating because those characters are very commonly used (for instance,
> see http://www.alistapart.com/ ).

> I don't know whether it is a Mozilla problem or a problem with how my fonts
> have been set up, but I suspect that it is the latter (I doubt Mozilla 1.0.0
> would have been released without this problem being spotted). I've been
> searching google for something about this and can't find anything. Does
> anyone have a clue what might be the problem?

> TIA for any help anyone might be able to offer.

> Best, Darren

> P.S. I thought it might be a problem with my preferences, so I created a test
> user and let Mozilla start up with its out of the box defaults and the
> problem recurred. So I guess it is either my font setup or Mozilla.

Yes, it seems you haven't set up mozilla to use the fonts which actually
contain the glyphs you want. Or you haven't set your entire system up
for them correct. I don't know Mandrake, but as far as i know it's a
RedHat ripoff, and this all works fine on RedHat 7.3 with Mozilla.

Good luck

R.K.Aa.

 
 
 

Peculiar unicode/TT font problem: missing/wrong punctuation characters

Post by D. D. Brierto » Tue, 25 Jun 2002 23:34:34



> Yes, it seems you haven't set up mozilla to use the fonts which actually
> contain the glyphs you want. Or you haven't set your entire system up for
> them correct. I don't know Mandrake, but as far as i know it's a RedHat
> ripoff, and this all works fine on RedHat 7.3 with Mozilla.

Okay, so it isn't a Mozilla problem. I'm fairly certain that I have set up
Mozilla to use Unicode fonts, and as I said creating a new user and starting
Mozilla with its out of the box defaults didn't make the problem go away. So
as I suspected there is something wrong with the way the fonts in X have been
set up. So does anyone have a clue what steps I should take to try and track
the problem down?

--
======================================================================

        Trying is the first step before failure (Homer Simpson)
======================================================================

 
 
 

Peculiar unicode/TT font problem: missing/wrong punctuation characters

Post by RKAA » Wed, 26 Jun 2002 03:38:01




>>Yes, it seems you haven't set up mozilla to use the fonts which actually
>>contain the glyphs you want. Or you haven't set your entire system up for
>>them correct. I don't know Mandrake, but as far as i know it's a RedHat
>>ripoff, and this all works fine on RedHat 7.3 with Mozilla.

> Okay, so it isn't a Mozilla problem. I'm fairly certain that I have set up
> Mozilla to use Unicode fonts, and as I said creating a new user and starting
> Mozilla with its out of the box defaults didn't make the problem go away. So
> as I suspected there is something wrong with the way the fonts in X have been
> set up. So does anyone have a clue what steps I should take to try and track
> the problem down?

well for starters: make sure your default fonts in preferences/fonts are
in fact all TT fonts containing the desired set of glyphs

K.

 
 
 

Peculiar unicode/TT font problem: missing/wrong punctuation characters

Post by D. D. Brierto » Wed, 26 Jun 2002 04:41:00



>> Okay, so it isn't a Mozilla problem. I'm fairly certain that I have set up
>> Mozilla to use Unicode fonts, and as I said creating a new user and
>> starting Mozilla with its out of the box defaults didn't make the problem
>> go away. So as I suspected there is something wrong with the way the fonts
>> in X have been set up. So does anyone have a clue what steps I should take
>> to try and track the problem down?

> well for starters: make sure your default fonts in preferences/fonts are in
> fact all TT fonts containing the desired set of glyphs

As I said, I'm pretty sure that I've done that. This is the relevant part of
~/.mozilla/default/pref.js:

user_pref("font.name.cursive.x-unicode", "microsoft-comic sans ms-iso10646-1");
user_pref("font.name.cursive.x-western", "microsoft-comic sans ms-iso8859-15");
user_pref("font.name.fantasy.x-unicode", "microsoft-comic sans ms-iso10646-1");
user_pref("font.name.fantasy.x-western", "microsoft-comic sans ms-iso8859-15");
user_pref("font.name.monospace.x-unicode", "monotype-courier new-iso10646-1");
user_pref("font.name.monospace.x-western", "monotype-courier new-iso8859-15");
user_pref("font.name.sans-serif.x-unicode", "monotype-arial-iso10646-1");
user_pref("font.name.sans-serif.x-western", "monotype-arial-iso8859-15");
user_pref("font.name.serif.x-unicode", "microsoft-georgia-iso10646-1");
user_pref("font.name.serif.x-western", "microsoft-georgia-iso8859-15");

Best, Darren

--
======================================================================

        Trying is the first step before failure (Homer Simpson)
======================================================================

 
 
 

Peculiar unicode/TT font problem: missing/wrong punctuation characters

Post by RKAA » Thu, 27 Jun 2002 05:57:02




>>>Okay, so it isn't a Mozilla problem. I'm fairly certain that I have set up
>>>Mozilla to use Unicode fonts, and as I said creating a new user and
>>>starting Mozilla with its out of the box defaults didn't make the problem
>>>go away. So as I suspected there is something wrong with the way the fonts
>>>in X have been set up. So does anyone have a clue what steps I should take
>>>to try and track the problem down?

>>well for starters: make sure your default fonts in preferences/fonts are in
>>fact all TT fonts containing the desired set of glyphs

> As I said, I'm pretty sure that I've done that. This is the relevant part of
> ~/.mozilla/default/pref.js:

> user_pref("font.name.cursive.x-unicode", "microsoft-comic sans ms-iso10646-1");
> user_pref("font.name.cursive.x-western", "microsoft-comic sans ms-iso8859-15");
> user_pref("font.name.fantasy.x-unicode", "microsoft-comic sans ms-iso10646-1");
> user_pref("font.name.fantasy.x-western", "microsoft-comic sans ms-iso8859-15");
> user_pref("font.name.monospace.x-unicode", "monotype-courier new-iso10646-1");
> user_pref("font.name.monospace.x-western", "monotype-courier new-iso8859-15");
> user_pref("font.name.sans-serif.x-unicode", "monotype-arial-iso10646-1");
> user_pref("font.name.sans-serif.x-western", "monotype-arial-iso8859-15");
> user_pref("font.name.serif.x-unicode", "microsoft-georgia-iso10646-1");
> user_pref("font.name.serif.x-western", "microsoft-georgia-iso8859-15");

> Best, Darren

And the fonts can be seen by X?

xlsfonts |grep georgia

etc. etc.

The page you complain about (richinstyle) use mostly verdana.
Do you have that one installed?
(It doesn't have to be defined as anything in preferences in mozilla -
just make sure you "allow documents to use other fonts")
The choise of ms-iso8859-15 as "x-western" font may have something to do
with this. Try setting it to iso8859-1. iso8859-15 is not western but
central european, afaik. That should be set fonts for separatly.

 
 
 

Peculiar unicode/TT font problem: missing/wrong punctuation characters

Post by D. D. Brierto » Thu, 27 Jun 2002 07:24:27



> And the fonts can be seen by X?

> xlsfonts |grep georgia

Yes.

Quote:> The page you complain about (richinstyle) use mostly verdana. Do you have
> that one installed?

Yes.

Quote:> (It doesn't have to be defined as anything in preferences in mozilla - just
> make sure you "allow documents to use other fonts") The choise of
> ms-iso8859-15 as "x-western" font may have something to do with this. Try
> setting it to iso8859-1. iso8859-15 is not western but central european,
> afaik. That should be set fonts for separatly.

No. ISO-8859-15 is the revised version of ISO-8859-1 which includes some
Finnish stuff and the Euro sign. Central European is ISO-8859-2.

I have now decided that this is most likely a Mozilla problem and have filed
a (long, rambling, badly written) bug report, which you've seen. So I guess
we should kill any discussion of this on this NG unless someone thinks that
it is in fact an X problem.

Best, Darren

--
======================================================================

        Trying is the first step before failure (Homer Simpson)
======================================================================

 
 
 

Peculiar unicode/TT font problem: missing/wrong punctuation characters

Post by D. D. Brierto » Thu, 27 Jun 2002 07:27:11



> No. ISO-8859-15 is the revised version of ISO-8859-1 which includes some
> Finnish stuff and the Euro sign. Central European is ISO-8859-2.

BTW, just to be absolutely sure I tried changing to ISO-8859-1 fonts and it
didn't solve anything.

--
======================================================================

        Trying is the first step before failure (Homer Simpson)
======================================================================

 
 
 

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