Why oh why does DOS/Windoze work while Linux fails?

Why oh why does DOS/Windoze work while Linux fails?

Post by Roger Rou » Sun, 11 May 1997 04:00:00



Why is it that when I have hardware problems I can use DOS
and Windoze but Linux just hangs?!

Thanks, Roger

+------------------------------------------------------------+
|Roger B. Rouse                      + # # # .               |
|                                  #           . +           |
|Arizona State University        #       + +     #           |
|Dept. Physics & Astronomy           + +   + #     +         |
|Tempe, Az, 85287-1504               +       +     #         |


|                                  +     # +   + +           |
|                                    #     + +      .        |
|                                    + .           #         |
|                                        . # + # .      Rouse|
+------------------------------------------------------------+

 
 
 

Why oh why does DOS/Windoze work while Linux fails?

Post by Roger Rous » Tue, 13 May 1997 04:00:00




> > Why is it that when I have hardware problems I can use DOS
> > and Windoze but Linux just hangs?!

> Post more details.

Well, I recently added a 4Gb IDE drive to my system.  Things
appeared to be working fine until I tried mounting my Jaz drive.
My system hung, and I had to power down.  I checked connections
and tried again.  Then it would hang during boot when It tried
to mount one of my SCSI disks:

aha274x:  Was expecting greater than (at least 1024) got 16
aha274x:  Resetting SCSI bus and card for next set of retries

Or something close to that.  When I booted to DOS it worked fine.
I could even run the Adaptec SCSI utilities stuff from Windoze.
This kind of thing has happened before where DOS booted but Linux
couldn't.  So, I was curious about that.

Roger

 
 
 

Why oh why does DOS/Windoze work while Linux fails?

Post by Ryurick M. Hrist » Wed, 14 May 1997 04:00:00



> Why is it that when I have hardware problems I can use DOS
> and Windoze but Linux just hangs?!

Post more details.

Cheers,
--
Delete ANTISPAM to reply. Apologies for inconvenience. (Spam,Grrrrr :)
______________________________________________________________________
Ryurick M. Hristev                    ()..()/^\/^\               -<:-)

______________________________________________________________________

 
 
 

Why oh why does DOS/Windoze work while Linux fails?

Post by Daniel Bruce Lyne » Thu, 15 May 1997 04:00:00


| Why is it that when I have hardware problems I can use DOS
| and Windoze but Linux just hangs?!

DOS and Windows both run in real-mode.  Have you tried running NT or a
32-bit version of OS/2 on your system?  If Linux is failing, they probably
will, too.  As they are all 32-bit operating systems, they place some
strain on your system that a 16-bit operating system would not.  They also
run in protected mode, which basically means that some of the things you
can do under Window 3.xx or DOS, you won't be able to do in a 32-bit
protected mode environment.  (Not that you should be doing them under DOS
or Windows, either...they just don't tend to complain about it...they
usually let you get away with it.)

eg.  Having your printer and your sound card both on IRQ 7.  Having your
CD-ROM drive and your network card both on port 330h.  Having your CD-ROM
drive and your MPU-401 card both on port 300h.  Having your modem and your
soundcard both on IRQ 5.  Having your modem and your printer on IRQ 5.
Having your soundcard and your printer both on IRQ 5.  Having your mouse on
com1, and your modem on com3, both set for default IRQ's.  Anyways, I think
you get the picture.  A lot of these things DOS will let by.  However, NT,
OS/2, Linux, and to a certain extent, Win95, won't let these by, as they
violate system integrity, or in technical terms, they violate protected
mode policy.

 
 
 

Why oh why does DOS/Windoze work while Linux fails?

Post by root » Sun, 18 May 1997 04:00:00



Quote:

> Why is it that when I have hardware problems I can use DOS
> and Windoze but Linux just hangs?!

> Thanks, Roger

        Because (especially) windoze is happy to continue on,
        trashing files.  Linux knows better.
                Pat

 "Today you can buy a Windows PC system from hundreds of
  manufacturers and choose from thousands of options and separate
  programs. However, the interactions between these components often
  result in havoc, with programs wiping out each other's files, and
  hardware devices configured with the same addresses or interrupt
  levels. End-users are faced with an encyclopedia of acronyms that
  are totally meaningless to many engineers, let alone the average
  homeowner trying to do their taxes."

 "What a Tangled Mess! Untangling User-Visible Complexity in Windows
  Systems", Rob Short, Microsoft Corporation

  Extract from Keynote Address
  USENIX Windows NT Workshop
  August 11-13, 1997

-----------
Pat Kennedy -- My opinions only            
Delco Electronics Corp.
Powertrain Software

"Quality is never an accident; it is always the result of high intention,
      sincere effort, intelligent direction, and skillful execution;
           it represents the wise choice of many alternatives."

 
 
 

Why oh why does DOS/Windoze work while Linux fails?

Post by Pat Kenned » Sun, 18 May 1997 04:00:00



Quote:

> Why is it that when I have hardware problems I can use DOS
> and Windoze but Linux just hangs?!

> Thanks, Roger

        Because (especially) windoze is happy to continue on,
        trashing files.  Linux knows better.
                Pat

 "Today you can buy a Windows PC system from hundreds of
 manufacturers and choose from thousands of options and separate
 programs. However, the interactions between these components often
 result in havoc, with programs wiping out each other's files, and
 hardware devices configured with the same addresses or interrupt
 levels. End-users are faced with an encyclopedia of acronyms that
 are totally meaningless to many engineers, let alone the average
 homeowner trying to do their taxes."

 "What a Tangled Mess! Untangling User-Visible Complexity in Windows
 Systems", Rob Short, Microsoft Corporation

 Extract from Keynote Address
 USENIX Windows NT Workshop
 August 11-13, 1997
--

-----------
Pat Kennedy            
Delco Electronics Corp.
Powertrain Software

"Quality is never an accident; it is always the result of high intention,
      sincere effort, intelligent direction, and skillful execution;
           it represents the wise choice of many alternatives."

 
 
 

Why oh why does DOS/Windoze work while Linux fails?

Post by Hugh McCur » Sun, 18 May 1997 04:00:00


[Posted and mailed]



Quote:

> Why is it that when I have hardware problems I can use DOS
> and Windoze but Linux just hangs?!

Short answer: because your hardware is broken or misconfigured; or you have
a bad driver in your kernel.

Now for some more useful comments:

Make sure you are running a stable production kernel.
Try booting from a floppy disk.
If using MS-DOS 6.xx & LOADLIN, comment out EMM386.SYS from your CONFIG.SYS
  (and see what happens)
Try a bare bones kernel to see if it's a bad driver* the computer.

If would be interesting to know where/when it hangs...

As for DOS/Windows not being a good test, I'm reminded of an obscure
problem I had with SCO Xenix and parallel printers.  The SCO Xenix (2.3.4)
parallel printer driver used interrupts.

On some computers, the printing would be V E R Y slow in Xenix.  But they
worked fine in DOS (and they also work fine in Linux).  The problem almost
certainly was that the interrupt for the parallel port were not working
right.  

This happened almost exclusively on 486 based computers (but also on a
few Pentiums).  It happened more frequently in the early days of the 486.
Solutions included turning off either the internal or external cache or
both (ouch).  Replacing the mother board (ouch).  Or replacing the
parallel port with one that cost a few dollars more (not ouch).

But, this illustrates a case where one (or many) operating systems can work
just fine on a given computer but the computer is still broken.  It's just
that the "working" operating systems never tried to use the part of the
computer that was broken.

Sorry to ramble, but this is a VERY sore point with me as I've taken a
lot of abuse from people who told me that "your software" was broken.
I then had to explain to these people that Xenix wasn't my software and
if it was...I wouldn't be talking to them...(I'd be rich).
Now I just get people telling me that Linux is broken...(and if it was
my software, I might not be rich, but I'd be famous).

--
Hugh McCurdy

 
 
 

1. Why, oh why, are we stuck with GNU 2.7.x.x?

I am fed up. I am sick of compiling things like the XFree86 or Wine or
even my stuff, where egcs or even GNU 2.8.x just makes the whole thing
unreliable. 2.7.x does a crappy job at optimization, but it is stable.
egcs and GNU 2.8 optimize well, but, make stupid assumptions about code.

Just once I want to run:

CC=egcs ./configure

and not regret it.

--
Mohawk Software
Windows 95, Windows NT, UNIX, Linux. Applications, drivers, support.
Visit the Mohawk Software website: www.mohawksoft.com

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