Very Computer

by **Tim Shop** » Wed, 18 Sep 2002 00:31:21

I'm looking for a small (preferably Micro-ATX or smaller) motherboard
for a small, sit-in-the-corner-and-do-the-job linux web server. For the past
three years I've used a Micro-ATX DFI motherboard with a K6II-500 CPU and
a Via chipset, but I'm now looking for a little bit more CPU power. It
has to be rock-solid-stable; I expect uptimes measured in years. Low
power consumption for maximal UPS hang-time is important; my current system
only draws 50W or so and the UPS can ride out power outages of a few
hours.

I highly desire on-motherboard video and network support so that there's
no need for any cards. Low power consumption is a must. I don't care if
the CPU is AMD or Intel. No intensive graphics will be done on this box;
I don't even install X11 and video usage will be limited to text console use.

The Asus A7N266-VM comes close. It has on-motherboard video and network
support, and I could put just about any Duron on it. My only concern
is that the onboard Nvidia Nforce GeFORCE2 video is way overkill for
a plain-old text console, and that it'll suck more power and generate
more heat than necessary.

On-motherboard video, I suppose, could be skipped if good support for a
serial console exists in the BIOS.

I will probably continue to use a single IDE hard drive in the machine,
but if someone has a good suggestion for a small motherboard with on-board SCSI
yet still with low power consumption then I'll listen.

Any recommendations?

Tim.

by **Allen Cride** » Wed, 18 Sep 2002 01:45:44

> I'm looking for a small (preferably Micro-ATX or smaller) motherboard
> for a small, sit-in-the-corner-and-do-the-job linux web server. For the
> past three years I've used a Micro-ATX DFI motherboard with a K6II-500 CPU
> and
> a Via chipset, but I'm now looking for a little bit more CPU power. It
> has to be rock-solid-stable; I expect uptimes measured in years. Low
> power consumption for maximal UPS hang-time is important; my current
> system only draws 50W or so and the UPS can ride out power outages of a
> few hours.

> I highly desire on-motherboard video and network support so that there's
> no need for any cards. Low power consumption is a must. I don't care if
> the CPU is AMD or Intel. No intensive graphics will be done on this box;
> I don't even install X11 and video usage will be limited to text console
> use.

> The Asus A7N266-VM comes close. It has on-motherboard video and network
> support, and I could put just about any Duron on it. My only concern
> is that the onboard Nvidia Nforce GeFORCE2 video is way overkill for
> a plain-old text console, and that it'll suck more power and generate
> more heat than necessary.

> On-motherboard video, I suppose, could be skipped if good support for a
> serial console exists in the BIOS.

> I will probably continue to use a single IDE hard drive in the machine,
> but if someone has a good suggestion for a small motherboard with on-board
> SCSI yet still with low power consumption then I'll listen.

> Any recommendations?

> Tim.

Try VIA's mini-ITX form factor with a C3 cpu.

<http://www.caseoutlet.com/NWPc/2677/itx2677.html>

by **Chris Co** » Wed, 18 Sep 2002 01:55:34

> I'm looking for a small (preferably Micro-ATX or smaller) motherboard
> for a small, sit-in-the-corner-and-do-the-job linux web server. For the past
> three years I've used a Micro-ATX DFI motherboard with a K6II-500 CPU and
> a Via chipset, but I'm now looking for a little bit more CPU power. It
> has to be rock-solid-stable; I expect uptimes measured in years. Low
> power consumption for maximal UPS hang-time is important; my current system
> only draws 50W or so and the UPS can ride out power outages of a few
> hours.

> I highly desire on-motherboard video and network support so that there's
> no need for any cards. Low power consumption is a must. I don't care if
> the CPU is AMD or Intel. No intensive graphics will be done on this box;
> I don't even install X11 and video usage will be limited to text console use.

...snip...
> Any recommendations?

> Tim.

http://www.saintsong.com.tw/english/products/mb/all-mb%20new.htm

by **Steve Wolf** » Wed, 18 Sep 2002 03:13:59

Quote:> I highly desire on-motherboard video and network support so that there's
> no need for any cards. Low power consumption is a must. I don't care
if
> the CPU is AMD or Intel. No intensive graphics will be done on this
box;
> I don't even install X11 and video usage will be limited to text console

use.

We have some book computers made by ECS - about the size of a large
college text book. They can take a Celeron up to about 566 MHz, or
thereabouts, and have onboard video, network, etc.. The power supplies in
them are only rated for 100 watts, and that's to cover CD-ROM, floppy,
HDD, etc., so they can't draw too much power. Look at ECS' web site,
perhaps they'll sell similar boards without the computer.

Under Windows, these machines suck rocks. Put Linux on them, and they
work terrifically. And if you need longer UPS times, you could always
wire a larger battery to the backup unit. ; )

steve

by **Thord Nilso** » Thu, 19 Sep 2002 06:52:59

Quote:> I'm looking for a small (preferably Micro-ATX or smaller) motherboard
> for a small, sit-in-the-corner-and-do-the-job linux web server. For the past
> three years I've used a Micro-ATX DFI motherboard with a K6II-500 CPU and
> a Via chipset, but I'm now looking for a little bit more CPU power. It
> has to be rock-solid-stable; I expect uptimes measured in years. Low
> power consumption for maximal UPS hang-time is important; my current system
> only draws 50W or so and the UPS can ride out power outages of a few
> hours.

> Any recommendations?

I think you would like a celeron (or maybe P-III) based machine then.
To reduce the power consumption further you could underclock it and
lower the cpu core voltage. (makes it more stable if done right)

The Atlon/Duron:s don't recduce the power very much when the cpu
is idling. Look at:
http://cip.uni-trier.de/nofftz/linux/Athlon-Powersaving-HOWTO.html
I haven't tested this (yet) so i dont know how effective it is.

I have a dual celeron 300, overclocked to 450 that takes
55W idle, 117W full load, compared to an Athlon TB 1100
that takes 98W idle and 115W at full load.

The celeron has two HD:s and two floppy disks, whereas the
athlon has one HD, floppy and cdrom.

So if your cpu will be idle much of the time, the celeron/P-III will
probably be better.

/Thord.

by **Tim Shop** » Thu, 19 Sep 2002 21:18:27

> > I'm looking for a small (preferably Micro-ATX or smaller) motherboard
> > for a small, sit-in-the-corner-and-do-the-job linux web server. For the
> > past three years I've used a Micro-ATX DFI motherboard with a K6II-500 CPU
> > and
> > a Via chipset, but I'm now looking for a little bit more CPU power. It
> > has to be rock-solid-stable; I expect uptimes measured in years. Low
> > power consumption for maximal UPS hang-time is important; my current
> > system only draws 50W or so and the UPS can ride out power outages of a
> > few hours.

> > I highly desire on-motherboard video and network support so that there's
> > no need for any cards. Low power consumption is a must. I don't care if
> > the CPU is AMD or Intel. No intensive graphics will be done on this box;
> > I don't even install X11 and video usage will be limited to text console
> > use.

> > The Asus A7N266-VM comes close. It has on-motherboard video and network
> > support, and I could put just about any Duron on it. My only concern
> > is that the onboard Nvidia Nforce GeFORCE2 video is way overkill for
> > a plain-old text console, and that it'll suck more power and generate
> > more heat than necessary.

> > On-motherboard video, I suppose, could be skipped if good support for a
> > serial console exists in the BIOS.

> > I will probably continue to use a single IDE hard drive in the machine,
> > but if someone has a good suggestion for a small motherboard with on-board
> > SCSI yet still with low power consumption then I'll listen.

> > Any recommendations?

> > Tim.
> Try VIA's mini-ITX form factor with a C3 cpu.

> <http://www.caseoutlet.com/NWPc/2677/itx2677.html>

That certainly looks close to what I want. A little more CPU oomph than my
current system, on-motherboard video and LAN, and an IDE port. In a tiny
tiny little box. No CPU fan to worry about dying, either!

And, to top it all off, it seems that the power supply only needs 12VDC.
So maybe I can replace my current 120VAC UPS with a couple of car batteries
and a trickle charger and get really impressive UPS hang-time!

Thanks!

Tim.

by **Chris Co** » Fri, 20 Sep 2002 02:53:05

>>>I'm looking for a small (preferably Micro-ATX or smaller) motherboard
..snip...
>>>Any recommendations?

>>>Tim.

>>Try VIA's mini-ITX form factor with a C3 cpu.

>><http://www.caseoutlet.com/NWPc/2677/itx2677.html>

> That certainly looks close to what I want. A little more CPU oomph than my
> current system, on-motherboard video and LAN, and an IDE port. In a tiny
> tiny little box. No CPU fan to worry about dying, either!

> And, to top it all off, it seems that the power supply only needs 12VDC.
> So maybe I can replace my current 120VAC UPS with a couple of car batteries
> and a trickle charger and get really impressive UPS hang-time!

Might also want to look at these (I have not tried one with Linux yet):

http://www.digitallogic.com/english/products/datasheets/mpc.asp

by **TimC** » Fri, 20 Sep 2002 19:42:38

Thord Nilson (aka Bruce) was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

>> I'm looking for a small (preferably Micro-ATX or smaller) motherboard
>> for a small, sit-in-the-corner-and-do-the-job linux web server. For the past
>> three years I've used a Micro-ATX DFI motherboard with a K6II-500 CPU and
>> a Via chipset, but I'm now looking for a little bit more CPU power. It
>> has to be rock-solid-stable; I expect uptimes measured in years. Low
>> power consumption for maximal UPS hang-time is important; my current system
>> only draws 50W or so and the UPS can ride out power outages of a few
>> hours.

>> Any recommendations?

<snip>

Quote:> So if your cpu will be idle much of the time, the celeron/P-III will
> probably be better.

If it sits idle for much of the time, why would he want to upgrade his
current machine?

I am personally amazed that 500MHz is not enough for him - my
sit-in-the-corner-box serving NFS and apache and firewall would be a
486 100MHz box, if I had one! My current desktop is a 500MHz K6-II on
an ALi chipset! :)

--
TimC -- http://astronomy.swin.edu.au/staff/tconnors/

"This thesis brought to you by the letter tau" -- TimC

by **Tim Shop** » Sat, 21 Sep 2002 00:33:50

> I am personally amazed that 500MHz is not enough for him - my
> sit-in-the-corner-box serving NFS and apache and firewall would be a
> 486 100MHz box, if I had one! My current desktop is a 500MHz K6-II on
> an ALi chipset! :)

I occasionally do software builds/updates (after all, you do not want
to get caught running mod_ssl with an old version of SSL this week) on the
server and I now find myself comparing the speed of that with my year-old
1600+ Athlon XP and some 2.x GHz P4's. It also does ht:dig indexing and
searching, not updated all that often, but it currently takes most of a day
to rebuild the ht:dig index of the site.

The machine is not running a "standard" distribution - it's a Linux-From-
Scratch (http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/) install so I have chosen to not
have the option of just installing RPM's from Hed Rat. This choice means
I build everything from source, and I'm very happy with this method.

In any event, it looks like a Via C3 on a mini-ITX motherboard will draw
half as much power as my existing 500 MHz K6II, something I'll be very happy
with. I ordered the Via Epia mentioned elsewhere in this thread from
Caseoutlet and it's supposed to be here Friday. I'll post here with the
results of the Linux install, but the stickier aspects (video and sound)
will not be exercised in my installation.

Tim.

by **Edward Lee e** » Sat, 21 Sep 2002 03:27:26

> > I'm looking for a small (preferably Micro-ATX or smaller) motherboard
> > for a small, sit-in-the-corner-and-do-the-job linux web server. For the
> past
> > three years I've used a Micro-ATX DFI motherboard with a K6II-500 CPU and
> > a Via chipset, but I'm now looking for a little bit more CPU power. It
> > has to be rock-solid-stable; I expect uptimes measured in years. Low
> > power consumption for maximal UPS hang-time is important; my current syst
> em
> > only draws 50W or so and the UPS can ride out power outages of a few
> > hours.

> > Any recommendations?

> I think you would like a celeron (or maybe P-III) based machine then.

Celeron yes, P-III no. Classic Celeron (if you can find any) uses the
lowest power. Somebody screwed it up with the new Celerons.

Quote:> To reduce the power consumption further you could underclock it and
> lower the cpu core voltage. (makes it more stable if done right)

How? Most newer motherboards won't let you change those settings.

Quote:
> The Atlon/Duron:s don't recduce the power very much when the cpu
> is idling. Look at:
> http://cip.uni-trier.de/nofftz/linux/Athlon-Powersaving-HOWTO.html
> I haven't tested this (yet) so i don t know how effective it is.

Yes, even Durons are hot.

Quote:
> I have a dual celeron 300, overclocked to 450 that takes
> 55W idle, 117W full load, compared to an Athlon TB 1100
> that takes 98W idle and 115W at full load.

I had 900M Celeron, 950M Celeron, 1G Celeron A, 900M Duron.
They are ranked in increasing power usages using finger tests.

- Show quoted text -

Quote:
> The celeron has two HD:s and two floppy disks, whereas the
> athlon has one HD, floppy and cdrom.

> So if your cpu will be idle much of the time, the celeron/P-III will
> probably be better.

> /Thord.

by **Tim Shop** » Mon, 23 Sep 2002 02:16:48

> > I'm looking for a small (preferably Micro-ATX or smaller) motherboard
> > for a small, sit-in-the-corner-and-do-the-job linux web server. For the
> > past three years I've used a Micro-ATX DFI motherboard with a K6II-500 CPU
> > and
> > a Via chipset, but I'm now looking for a little bit more CPU power. It
> > has to be rock-solid-stable; I expect uptimes measured in years. Low
> > power consumption for maximal UPS hang-time is important; my current
> > system only draws 50W or so and the UPS can ride out power outages of a
> > few hours.

> > I highly desire on-motherboard video and network support so that there's
> > no need for any cards. Low power consumption is a must. I don't care if
> > the CPU is AMD or Intel. No intensive graphics will be done on this box;
> > I don't even install X11 and video usage will be limited to text console
> > use.

> > The Asus A7N266-VM comes close. It has on-motherboard video and network
> > support, and I could put just about any Duron on it. My only concern
> > is that the onboard Nvidia Nforce GeFORCE2 video is way overkill for
> > a plain-old text console, and that it'll suck more power and generate
> > more heat than necessary.

> > On-motherboard video, I suppose, could be skipped if good support for a
> > serial console exists in the BIOS.

> > I will probably continue to use a single IDE hard drive in the machine,
> > but if someone has a good suggestion for a small motherboard with on-board
> > SCSI yet still with low power consumption then I'll listen.

> > Any recommendations?

> > Tim.
> Try VIA's mini-ITX form factor with a C3 cpu.

> <http://www.caseoutlet.com/NWPc/2677/itx2677.html>

Ordered it on Wednesday, it came Friday, and installed Linux on it in about
ten minutes flat. Works like a charm! Power drain is about 20W at idle,
and about 35W with a lot of disk seeks and CPU usage (e.g. a gcc build).
Performance is better than my old K6II-500, but not by a whole lot.

System components:

* Mini-ITX box, external 12V supply, via C3 CPU+MB $195
* Western Digital WD400BB 40 Gig 7200 RPM HD $ 65 (about 5 months ago)
* Crucial 256Mbyte SDRAM (CL=2) $ 42
----
$302

Two small gotchas:

1. The box's power supply will not power both a 7200 RPM hard drive
and a full-size 56X CD-ROM. For the install I leached power off a different
PC-clone supply to get the CD-ROM going; after the install this is not
an issue because there's no room for the CD-ROM drive in the box!

(Caseoutlet sells a really skinny, presumably low-power CD-ROM drive that
does fit in the box. I didn't want to spend the 69$ on it because after the
install I don't need it.)

2. The via-rhine net driver in 2.4.19 and earlier kernels hiccups occasionally
on the VIA VT6103 Ethernet chip, especially during collisions. The later
Alan Cox patches to 2.4.19 and the recent 2.4.20 kernels fixes this.

I didn't install X-Windows and do not use the sound on this box, so
I cannot comment about how they behave in Linux.

Thanks for the hint, Allen; I had previously thought about a mini-ITX
server but your mention pushed me over the edge and into the world of little
tiny computers!

I may end up getting more of these for graphical workstations; if and when
that happens I'll post my experience with installing X-Windows and using
the sound port.

Tim.

Very Computer

Small low-power motherboard for small linux server

Small low-power motherboard for small linux server

Small low-power motherboard for small linux server

Small low-power motherboard for small linux server

Small low-power motherboard for small linux server

Small low-power motherboard for small linux server

Small low-power motherboard for small linux server

Small low-power motherboard for small linux server

Small low-power motherboard for small linux server

Small low-power motherboard for small linux server

Small low-power motherboard for small linux server

Small low-power motherboard for small linux server