Burned system!?

Burned system!?

Post by ajam » Sat, 26 Feb 2000 04:00:00



Okay, this is my question...

I have a machine booting both Linux and NT.  The power-on switch in the
machine is one of these ones that does not really click.  You just push
the damned thing really deep, and as the internal spring pushes the
button out, the thing turns on.  I've been meaning to change the box,
but I've been procrastinating about it.  Either way, Yesterday I turned
on the machine, and it did not turned on.  It instead started making
this strange sound;  possibly by the power supply fan.  At that point, I
turned it off.  And tried again after a few seconds, being more careful
this time; pushing in the power button in slower.  The sound started
again.  At that point I turned it off, bought a new box with a new power
supply and everything else, and move all the components fromt the old to
the new box.  Well, now when I turn on the switch in the machine, the
power goes on;  the cpu power goes on as well; but the machine itself
does not.  I don't know at this point what exactly happened; if
something got burned or not.  And if something got burned, what exactly
did.  Either way, I know that this might be a little bit different than
some of the problem that other people in this list might be dealing
with, but I would surely appreciate any input that would shed some light
and help me get the system back in operation.

Thanks, ajam

 
 
 

Burned system!?

Post by ajam » Sat, 26 Feb 2000 04:00:00


I'm sorry what I meant was that the CPU fan, not the CPU power, turned on
when I turned the machine's power on.

Cheers, ajam


> Okay, this is my question...

> I have a machine booting both Linux and NT.  The power-on switch in the
> machine is one of these ones that does not really click.  You just push
> the damned thing really deep, and as the internal spring pushes the
> button out, the thing turns on.  I've been meaning to change the box,
> but I've been procrastinating about it.  Either way, Yesterday I turned
> on the machine, and it did not turned on.  It instead started making
> this strange sound;  possibly by the power supply fan.  At that point, I
> turned it off.  And tried again after a few seconds, being more careful
> this time; pushing in the power button in slower.  The sound started
> again.  At that point I turned it off, bought a new box with a new power
> supply and everything else, and move all the components fromt the old to
> the new box.  Well, now when I turn on the switch in the machine, the
> power goes on;  the cpu power goes on as well; but the machine itself
> does not.  I don't know at this point what exactly happened; if
> something got burned or not.  And if something got burned, what exactly
> did.  Either way, I know that this might be a little bit different than
> some of the problem that other people in this list might be dealing
> with, but I would surely appreciate any input that would shed some light
> and help me get the system back in operation.

> Thanks, ajam


 
 
 

Burned system!?

Post by ajam » Sat, 26 Feb 2000 04:00:00


Nothing.  I just happen to be running Linux in that machine, and this is
a hardware-related newsgroup.  Didn't you read what I wrote before?
Thanks for your time!

cheers, ajam


> Just out of curiosity, what makes a problem with the case/power
> supply a Linux-specific question?
> --

> I-Con's Science and Technology Guest of Honor in 2000 will be Geoffrey
> A. Landis.  See <http://www.iconsf.org> for I-Con information.

 
 
 

Burned system!?

Post by Robert Redelmeie » Sat, 26 Feb 2000 04:00:00



> again.  At that point I turned it off, bought a new box with a new power
> supply and everything else, and move all the components fromt the old to
> the new box.  Well, now when I turn on the switch in the machine, the
> power goes on;  the cpu power goes on as well; but the machine itself
> does not.  I don't know at this point what exactly happened; if
> something got burned or not.  And if something got burned, what exactly
> did.  Either way, I know that this might be a little bit different

Well, did you do anything that might have made it fail?  In general,
you have to be very careful with mobo mounting, not to short anything
to ground.  Also watch the unused power supply connectors aren't grounded,
any peripheral circuit boards, etc.

Unplug or remove everything except keyboard, video card (&mon), speaker and
power switch.  If you can, substitute known-good components for these.
Reseat CPU, memory and any socketed chips [BIOS]  Power on, observing
patiently:  do the kbd LED's flash? does the speaker beep at all?  Plug
a floppy in--does it try to boot blind from floopy? With luck, you will
have a BIOS boot screen.  Then plug components in one-at-a-time
(poweroff) until you get a boot failure.

If you don't get a BIOS screen, you have to check out your video and kbd.
Then it could be mobo, CPU, DRAM or BIOS.  Well equipped PC shops will
use a POST card to determine which.  If you haven't been practicing
"safe computing", you might have a BIOS reflash virus.

-- Robert

 
 
 

Burned system!?

Post by Carl Fi » Sun, 27 Feb 2000 04:00:00


Just out of curiosity, what makes a problem with the case/power
supply a Linux-specific question?
--

I-Con's Science and Technology Guest of Honor in 2000 will be Geoffrey
A. Landis.  See <http://www.iconsf.org> for I-Con information.
 
 
 

Burned system!?

Post by Carl Fi » Sun, 27 Feb 2000 04:00:00



Quote:>Nothing.  I just happen to be running Linux in that machine, and this is
>a hardware-related newsgroup.  Didn't you read what I wrote before?

Sure, otherwise how could I have summarized it?  I just think the
odds are better you'll get a useful answer on the appropriate group,
say comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc.
--

I-Con's Science and Technology Guest of Honor in 2000 will be Geoffrey
A. Landis.  See <http://www.iconsf.org> for I-Con information.
 
 
 

Burned system!?

Post by ajam » Sun, 27 Feb 2000 04:00:00


Robert,

thanks for taking the time and responding to my question.  I actually did all
that.  The  video board and everything else does not get recognized; the
speaker is not beeping; and after the power goes on, it  won't off using the
switch.  At this point, I'm pretty certain that the problem is the BIOS chip,
but will certainly prefer to hear other people's view on this matter.  Blowing
a board or BIOS chip is not so uncommon.  Thus, I wonder if anyone has run
into this problem before.

Cheers, ajam



> > again.  At that point I turned it off, bought a new box with a new power
> > supply and everything else, and move all the components fromt the old to
> > the new box.  Well, now when I turn on the switch in the machine, the
> > power goes on;  the cpu power goes on as well; but the machine itself
> > does not.  I don't know at this point what exactly happened; if
> > something got burned or not.  And if something got burned, what exactly
> > did.  Either way, I know that this might be a little bit different

> Well, did you do anything that might have made it fail?  In general,
> you have to be very careful with mobo mounting, not to short anything
> to ground.  Also watch the unused power supply connectors aren't grounded,
> any peripheral circuit boards, etc.

> Unplug or remove everything except keyboard, video card (&mon), speaker and
> power switch.  If you can, substitute known-good components for these.
> Reseat CPU, memory and any socketed chips [BIOS]  Power on, observing
> patiently:  do the kbd LED's flash? does the speaker beep at all?  Plug
> a floppy in--does it try to boot blind from floopy? With luck, you will
> have a BIOS boot screen.  Then plug components in one-at-a-time
> (poweroff) until you get a boot failure.

> If you don't get a BIOS screen, you have to check out your video and kbd.
> Then it could be mobo, CPU, DRAM or BIOS.  Well equipped PC shops will
> use a POST card to determine which.  If you haven't been practicing
> "safe computing", you might have a BIOS reflash virus.

> -- Robert

 
 
 

Burned system!?

Post by John Ho » Sun, 27 Feb 2000 04:00:00


: thanks for taking the time and responding to my question.  I actually did all
: that.  The  video board and everything else does not get recognized; the
: speaker is not beeping; and after the power goes on, it  won't off using the
: switch.  At this point, I'm pretty certain that the problem is the BIOS chip,
: but will certainly prefer to hear other people's view on this matter.  Blowing
: a board or BIOS chip is not so uncommon.  Thus, I wonder if anyone has run
: into this problem before.

        You haven't by any chance got the IDE cable going into your HD on
the wrong way have you?  I've done that a few times myself, simply mistake.

 
 
 

Burned system!?

Post by Robert Redelmeie » Sun, 27 Feb 2000 04:00:00



> thanks for taking the time and responding to my question.  I actually did all
> that.  The  video board and everything else does not get recognized; the
> speaker is not beeping; and after the power goes on, it  won't off using the
> switch.  At this point, I'm pretty certain that the problem is the BIOS chip,
> but will certainly prefer to hear other people's view on this matter.  Blowing
> a board or BIOS chip is not so uncommon.  Thus, I wonder if anyone has run
> into this problem before.

I've had bad BIOS.  But fortunately it has a protected boot-block and will
boot from floppy (no PCI video, only ISA if I plug in an old VGA card).
This is enough to reflash it.

If your BIOS is bad and doesn't have the boot-block, then you are out
of luck.  You can try testing/reflashing your BIOS if you have an
EEPROM programmer like ctFlash.  Check the CPU and memory out on another
board.  But it's getting difficult to diagnose.  AFAIK, a POST card
will not help if the BIOS or CPU is bad.  Shorted (PCI/DRAM/ISA) pins
will also cause total "fail-to-start".

-- Robert

 
 
 

Burned system!?

Post by ajam » Sun, 27 Feb 2000 04:00:00


Thanks again for the reply.  Like I said before, I'm certain it is either the BIOS
or the board, since I disconnected all peripherals + microprocessor from board and
I still did not get any beeping sound from the BIOS.  It is my understanding that
the BIOS does not need the microprocessor to boot.  Although the BIOS that I have
is Award, which supposedly has the least amount of beeping sound configurations
available, I believe that something should have happened at this point.  Thus, I'm
on my way of getting a new board today.  At least for me it is really sad to loose
a motherboard like this, but c'est la vie!

Cheers, ajam



> > thanks for taking the time and responding to my question.  I actually did all
> > that.  The  video board and everything else does not get recognized; the
> > speaker is not beeping; and after the power goes on, it  won't off using the
> > switch.  At this point, I'm pretty certain that the problem is the BIOS chip,
> > but will certainly prefer to hear other people's view on this matter.  Blowing
> > a board or BIOS chip is not so uncommon.  Thus, I wonder if anyone has run
> > into this problem before.

> I've had bad BIOS.  But fortunately it has a protected boot-block and will
> boot from floppy (no PCI video, only ISA if I plug in an old VGA card).
> This is enough to reflash it.

> If your BIOS is bad and doesn't have the boot-block, then you are out
> of luck.  You can try testing/reflashing your BIOS if you have an
> EEPROM programmer like ctFlash.  Check the CPU and memory out on another
> board.  But it's getting difficult to diagnose.  AFAIK, a POST card
> will not help if the BIOS or CPU is bad.  Shorted (PCI/DRAM/ISA) pins
> will also cause total "fail-to-start".

> -- Robert

 
 
 

Burned system!?

Post by ajam » Sun, 27 Feb 2000 04:00:00


Thanks for your response.

I know.  I've run into that many times, but this is a little bit different.  I
know, even though I haven't open it, that the power supply of the previous case had
a short-circuit of some kind, because of sound and smell.  No question about it.
The motherboard is an ATX type, therefore it literally manages the power switch
actions internally. (That is why, it does not want to turn off).  I have everything
disconnected.  At one point, I even took the microprocessor out to see if the BIOS
would do something, as in beeping.   I inspected the microprocessor, and it does
not look cracked and there are no tiny burn marks anywhere.  I also took the
motherboard out of the case, inspected it, and everything also looks okay.  Thus, I
believe at this point that it should be the BIOS.

Cheers, ajam



> : thanks for taking the time and responding to my question.  I actually did all
> : that.  The  video board and everything else does not get recognized; the
> : speaker is not beeping; and after the power goes on, it  won't off using the
> : switch.  At this point, I'm pretty certain that the problem is the BIOS chip,
> : but will certainly prefer to hear other people's view on this matter.  Blowing
> : a board or BIOS chip is not so uncommon.  Thus, I wonder if anyone has run
> : into this problem before.

>         You haven't by any chance got the IDE cable going into your HD on
> the wrong way have you?  I've done that a few times myself, simply mistake.

 
 
 

Burned system!?

Post by Anton Degue » Sun, 27 Feb 2000 04:00:00



> Thanks for your response.

> I know.  I've run into that many times, but this is a little bit different.  I
> know, even though I haven't open it, that the power supply of the previous case had
> a short-circuit of some kind, because of sound and smell.  No question about it.
> The motherboard is an ATX type, therefore it literally manages the power switch
> actions internally. (That is why, it does not want to turn off).

I guess you already know that if you press the on/off button for about
10 seconds, it will pass the software "shutdown" to really shutdown ?

Anton

 
 
 

Burned system!?

Post by Anton Degue » Sun, 27 Feb 2000 04:00:00



> Thanks again for the reply.  Like I said before, I'm certain it is either the BIOS
> or the board, since I disconnected all peripherals + microprocessor from board and
> I still did not get any beeping sound from the BIOS.  It is my understanding that
> the BIOS does not need the microprocessor to boot.  Although the BIOS that I have
> is Award, which supposedly has the least amount of beeping sound configurations
> available, I believe that something should have happened at this point.  Thus, I'm
> on my way of getting a new board today.  At least for me it is really sad to loose
> a motherboard like this, but c'est la vie!

> Cheers, ajam



> > > thanks for taking the time and responding to my question.  I actually did all
> > > that.  The  video board and everything else does not get recognized; the
> > > speaker is not beeping; and after the power goes on, it  won't off using the
> > > switch.  At this point, I'm pretty certain that the problem is the BIOS chip,
> > > but will certainly prefer to hear other people's view on this matter.  Blowing
> > > a board or BIOS chip is not so uncommon.  Thus, I wonder if anyone has run
> > > into this problem before.

I had once a memory failure which totally blocked the motherboard, not
even a simple beep.  I would bet that you also tried without memory.

Anton

 
 
 

Burned system!?

Post by pe.. » Sun, 27 Feb 2000 04:00:00



Quote:> I have a machine booting both Linux and NT.  The power-on switch in the
> machine is one of these ones that does not really click.  You just push
> the damned thing really deep, and as the internal spring pushes the
> button out, the thing turns on.  I've been meaning to change the box,
> but I've been procrastinating about it.  Either way, Yesterday I turned
> on the machine, and it did not turned on.  It instead started making
> this strange sound;  possibly by the power supply fan.

I lost a machine in a similar fashion a few weeks ago.  I was
re-organizing some of my machines and was going to put windows on a
machine that had previously running as a Linux server.  After being
off for several days, I powered it up to the sound of sparks and the
smell of burning components.  Turns out every component in the box was
fried with the exception of RAM.  I did a post-mortem and discovered
that the fan in the power supply has seized.  I wonder if this caused
a short inside the PS which caused it to overvoltage on the outputs.

Or perhaps the machine decided that death was better than windows...

-p.

 
 
 

Burned system!?

Post by ajam » Sun, 27 Feb 2000 04:00:00


yes.  Actually about 4 sec. does the trick!  Thanks!

Cheers, ajam



> > Thanks for your response.

> > I know.  I've run into that many times, but this is a little bit different.  I
> > know, even though I haven't open it, that the power supply of the previous case had
> > a short-circuit of some kind, because of sound and smell.  No question about it.
> > The motherboard is an ATX type, therefore it literally manages the power switch
> > actions internally. (That is why, it does not want to turn off).

> I guess you already know that if you press the on/off button for about
> 10 seconds, it will pass the software "shutdown" to really shutdown ?

> Anton