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IDE and SCSI together?

IDE and SCSI together?

Post by Tom Johns » Thu, 19 Dec 1996 04:00:00



They will work together.  You may have some difficults booting certain
OS's off the SCSI disks, when combined with IDE disks.  Also, this may
be specific to the SCSI Adapter you purchase to drive your scsi devices.

Key point when deciding on a SCSI adapter, that I have found.  Buy a quality
adapter, cheep one's just don't do the job you want.  A decent scsi adapter
for a "workstation" will cost you about $200.  The scsi disks are coming
down in price and if you look, you can find them for the same price as IDE.
Case in point, I picked up a 2gig seagate for 199.  Other scsi devices are
notably more expensive.  Specifically CDRom's.. and of course you can run
good scanners or tape devices off ide :)

: Hello,  I'm thinking of buying a new computer and I'm not
: sure I really want to get SCSI at this moment, but may definitely
: want to upgrade in the future.  Can anyone tell me whether
: it is possible to have both IDE drives and SCSI drives working
: together -- or are the two mutually exclusive?
:
: Thanks,
: Chris Jones

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IDE and SCSI together?

Post by Chris Jone » Thu, 19 Dec 1996 04:00:00


Hello,  I'm thinking of buying a new computer and I'm not
sure I really want to get SCSI at this moment, but may definitely
want to upgrade in the future.  Can anyone tell me whether
it is possible to have both IDE drives and SCSI drives working
together -- or are the two mutually exclusive?

Thanks,
Chris Jones

 
 
 
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IDE and SCSI together?

Post by Mark Ha » Fri, 20 Dec 1996 04:00:00


Quote:> Key point when deciding on a SCSI adapter, that I have found.  Buy a quality
> adapter, cheep one's just don't do the job you want.  A decent scsi adapter
> for a "workstation" will cost you about $200.  

no.  first of all, NCR810 boards work well, and cost <$70.  they are
not the fastest.  the next step up is the BusLogic Flashpoint,
whose driver is still pretty new, but works _very_ well, probably
since Leonard Z does such a good job with Buslogics.  it's also
pretty damn cheap (board for $110 or so).

Quote:> The scsi disks are coming
> down in price and if you look, you can find them for the same price as IDE.

this is true only for scsi drives that share mechanisms with IDE;
it's definitely not true for high-end drives.  and it's mainly for
the high-end drives that people buy scsi for, since busmastering
EIDE works _very_ well and is always cheaper.

Quote:> Case in point, I picked up a 2gig seagate for 199.  Other scsi devices are
> notably more expensive.

I recently saw a SCSI Quantum Fireball 3.2G for about $320;
it's certainly not the fastest drive available, but still good.

regards, mark hahn.
--

                                        http://neurocog.lrdc.pitt.edu/~hahn/

 
 
 
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IDE and SCSI together?

Post by Tom Johns » Fri, 20 Dec 1996 04:00:00


: > Key point when deciding on a SCSI adapter, that I have found.  Buy a quality
: > adapter, cheep one's just don't do the job you want.  A decent scsi adapter
: > for a "workstation" will cost you about $200.  
:
: no.  first of all, NCR810 boards work well, and cost <$70.  they are
: not the fastest.  the next step up is the BusLogic Flashpoint,
: whose driver is still pretty new, but works _very_ well, probably
: since Leonard Z does such a good job with Buslogics.  it's also
: pretty damn cheap (board for $110 or so).
:
I would disagree.  If you want a scsi system, then buy a scsi adapter that
can handle the multiple devices you want to use.  I run seagate disks,
hp tape, plextore cdrom and hp cdr off a Buslogic 948.. I wouldn't
attempt this off a Flashpoint or an NCR controller.  Watch the news
groups.  How many times do you see problems with NCR and Flashpoints vs
the 948?  Hell, even the Adaptec 2940 series get's a ton of posts regarding
problems with setup.  The 948 you can get for <200.  And 200$ in this day
is peanuts.

: > The scsi disks are coming
: > down in price and if you look, you can find them for the same price as IDE.
:
: this is true only for scsi drives that share mechanisms with IDE;
: it's definitely not true for high-end drives.  and it's mainly for
: the high-end drives that people buy scsi for, since busmastering
: EIDE works _very_ well and is always cheaper.
:

This is true, but if john doe wanted high end UW A/V drives, I bet he
wouldn't want to use a NCR or Flashpoint controller, would he?  IDE/ATAPI/
EDIE is crap.  I would only use this option where I had no alternative.

: > Case in point, I picked up a 2gig seagate for 199.  Other scsi devices are
: > notably more expensive.
:
: I recently saw a SCSI Quantum Fireball 3.2G for about $320;
: it's certainly not the fastest drive available, but still good.
:

These seagate drives were ST32430N, certainly not the latest and greatest,
but then I'm not out looking for UW A/V drives, am I?

: regards, mark hahn.
: --

:                                       http://neurocog.lrdc.pitt.edu/~hahn/

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IDE and SCSI together?

Post by Coli » Fri, 20 Dec 1996 04:00:00




Quote:>Hello,  I'm thinking of buying a new computer and I'm not
>sure I really want to get SCSI at this moment, but may definitely
>want to upgrade in the future.  Can anyone tell me whether
>it is possible to have both IDE drives and SCSI drives working
>together -- or are the two mutually exclusive?

I'm using two IDE hard drives and a SCSI Jaz drive on my computer with no
problems at all.

Later,

Colin

 
 
 
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IDE and SCSI together?

Post by Mark Ha » Sun, 22 Dec 1996 04:00:00


Quote:> attempt this off a Flashpoint or an NCR controller.  Watch the news

this is just a note to debunk this aspersion cast on the Flashpoint.
it's definitely at least as fast as the 948, and certainly gives
no more trouble than one, since they use the same driver now.

Quote:> problems with setup.  The 948 you can get for <200.  And 200$ in this day
> is peanuts.

stupid statement.  a dollar is still a dollar.

Quote:> wouldn't want to use a NCR or Flashpoint controller, would he?  IDE/ATAPI/
> EDIE is crap.  I would only use this option where I had no alternative.

this is blind bigotry.  saving hundreds of dollars on a system is good.

Quote:> but then I'm not out looking for UW A/V drives, am I?

A/V increase price, not performance.  further, UW is mostly silly,
since it's hard enough to saturate a Ultra/narrow bus.

regards, mark hahn.
--

                                        http://neurocog.lrdc.pitt.edu/~hahn/

 
 
 
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IDE and SCSI together?

Post by Mark Lehre » Tue, 24 Dec 1996 04:00:00



> > wouldn't want to use a NCR or Flashpoint controller, would he?  IDE/ATAPI/
> > EDIE is crap.  I would only use this option where I had no alternative.

> this is blind bigotry.  saving hundreds of dollars on a system is good.

Not really bigotry - it is just a trade off; if you want good
technology, go SCSI; if you want to save a few bucks but get cheesy
technology, go IDE.

What I don't like is the fact that hard drive companies these days ONLY
make ultra fast & wide SCSI drives.  I wish the regular drives were
available in either format because I am maxed out in IDE drives.

But the battle was over years ago - SCSI is just not mainstream.  No
superior technology is (and just wait - USB will be superior even
though FireWire is the better serial bus).

Sorry for ranting.  8^)

 
 
 
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IDE and SCSI together?

Post by Robert Dor » Wed, 25 Dec 1996 04:00:00




Quote:> Hello,  I'm thinking of buying a new computer and I'm not
> sure I really want to get SCSI at this moment, but may definitely
> want to upgrade in the future.  Can anyone tell me whether
> it is possible to have both IDE drives and SCSI drives working
> together -- or are the two mutually exclusive?

> Thanks,
> Chris Jones

It should work fine. (don't post me 10G flames if it doesn't)
I use an EIDE disk as 0x80 (Disk 0) for (Win)Doze with LILO in the MBR.
An AHA-2940 drives my SCSI disk as 0x81 (Disk 1) for Linux. (Suse Linux)
I've never experienced any problems with the disk system.
Before you buy make _sure_ that you have the right driver...

IMHO it's not a bad idea to use SCSI right from start. SCSI drives
_normally_ get higher performance...

 
 
 
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1. SCSI card and ide-scsi emulation: should they work together?

I use SCSI emulation on my machine (under Red Hat 7.3) for an IDE
CD-writer, and it works fine. But wanting to attach an old scanner
(Agfa Snapscan 310) which has a SCSI interface only, I just bought a
real SCSI card, advertised as Linux compatible.

After installing the card and connecting the scanner, kudzu detected
them both as new hardware and reported them correctly. But xsane,
scsi_info and sane-find-scanner all refuse to admit that the scanner
exists. It is listed as one of those supported by sane: in fact, it's
one of the earlier ones.

Looking at kudzu's database in /etc/sysconfig/hwconf (see extracts
below), the emulated SCSI seems to be registered as host 0, and the
real SCSI card as host 1. That all seems reasonable, and kudzu (to
judge by the file modification time) has set /dev/scanner as a
symlink to /dev/sgb, which is itself a symlink to /dev/sg1. But with
scsi_info, I get
# scsi_info /dev/sg0
SCSI_ID="0,0,0"
MODEL="LG CD-RW CED-8042B"
FW_REV="1.05"
# scsi_info /dev/sg1
open() failed: No such device or address
There are 16 entries in /dev for the devices sg0 to sg15, and all
except sg0 give the same response as sg1.

If I try
xsane snapscan:/dev/scanner
it puts up a dialog box with
Failed to open device `snapscan:/dev/scanner': Operation not
supported.
I click OK (the only option) and xsane simply exits.

If I try
sane-find-scanner
(even as root) it fails to find anything.

Looking around in /proc/scsi, I see the CD-writer described, but
nothing else.

Should ide-scsi and a real SCSI card be able to coexist, and if so,
does anyone have any idea what I can try next?

Extracts from /etc/sysconfig/hwconf:

# For the CD-writer
class: CDROM
bus: SCSI
detached: 0
device: scd0
driver: ignore
desc: "Lg CD-RW CED-8042B"
host: 0
id: 0
channel: 0
lun: 0

# For the SCSI card
class: SCSI
bus: PCI
detached: 0
driver: atp870u
desc: "Artop Electronic Corp|AEC6712U SCSI"
vendorId: 1191
deviceId: 8020
subVendorId: 1191
subDeviceId: 8020
pciType: 1

# For the scanner
class: SCANNER
bus: SCSI
detached: 0
device: sgb
driver: ignore
desc: "Agfa SNAPSCAN 310"
host: 1
id: 2
channel: 0
lun: 0

Thanks in advance for any ideas...

John Foster

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