GeForce Ti4200 and Linux

GeForce Ti4200 and Linux

Post by Paul Thoma » Thu, 15 Aug 2002 02:41:35



I'm thinking of getting a 3D graphics card. I don't play games much so I
don't want to spend a lot of money ;) I've seen the GeForce Ti4200 card
advertised quite cheaply and I'm tempted.. Has anyone got any experience
of these cards under Linux?

BTW, I'm running RH7.2

tnx

--
Paul Thomas
Thomas Micro Systems Limited

 
 
 

GeForce Ti4200 and Linux

Post by The_Red_Bul » Thu, 15 Aug 2002 05:47:17



> I'm thinking of getting a 3D graphics card. I don't play games much so I
> don't want to spend a lot of money ;) I've seen the GeForce Ti4200 card
> advertised quite cheaply and I'm tempted.. Has anyone got any experience
> of these cards under Linux?
> BTW, I'm running RH7.2

The only experience I have is with the olde gforce2mx cards, but all (that
I know of) gforce cards work (or at least the chipsets do).  The only thing
is that the code isn't open source, but if that doesn't bother you, nip over
to nvidias website and search for linux drivers.  Follow the instructions
for installing, and you are away!

Iain
--
If the brain is root, we only have a shell account.
Unless you're schizophrenic, in which case you have several shell accounts.
Savants have Superuser!

So, is the skull like the kernel?
And the limbs all the devices?
I hesitate to ask how uptime is measured...

 
 
 

GeForce Ti4200 and Linux

Post by Robert Davie » Thu, 15 Aug 2002 05:01:09



> I'm thinking of getting a 3D graphics card. I don't play games much so I
> don't want to spend a lot of money ;) I've seen the GeForce Ti4200 card
> advertised quite cheaply and I'm tempted.. Has anyone got any experience
> of these cards under Linux?

I've just gone for a Matrox G550 for similar reason, wanted good 2D and an
open source DRI based 3D driver, as I _only_ run Linux there's not much
point in the high end Direct X 8.0+ 3D cards.  The plus point of the G550
is it has a 2nd DVI monitor port, which allows running with two screens.

I am fed up of Nvidia drivers, they are a PITA.  Prefer the Open Source 2D
nv driver which is fine except for 3D games, mesasoft does not cut it.

I had a look at the ATI cards to, but there seemed to be a few driver
issues there, and the 8500 is not fully supported in XFree-4.2. yet.

Rob

 
 
 

GeForce Ti4200 and Linux

Post by The_Ageless_On » Thu, 15 Aug 2002 09:03:10



> I'm thinking of getting a 3D graphics card. I don't play games much so I
> don't want to spend a lot of money ;) I've seen the GeForce Ti4200 card
> advertised quite cheaply and I'm tempted.. Has anyone got any experience
> of these cards under Linux?

> BTW, I'm running RH7.2

As am I (albeit with a 2.4.18 kernel). and I have a Gainward Ti4200 card.
Asides from issues with the Realsoft3D beta it rocks a phat one and Return
to Castle Wolfenstein look _goooood_.... although I did upgrade from a
GeForce DDR.

regards, Paul

 
 
 

GeForce Ti4200 and Linux

Post by Frank A. Ueppin » Fri, 16 Aug 2002 02:14:54




>> I'm thinking of getting a 3D graphics card. I don't play games much so I
>> don't want to spend a lot of money ;) I've seen the GeForce Ti4200 card
>> advertised quite cheaply and I'm tempted.. Has anyone got any experience
>> of these cards under Linux?

> I've just gone for a Matrox G550 for similar reason, wanted good 2D and an
> open source DRI based 3D driver, as I _only_ run Linux there's not much
> point in the high end Direct X 8.0+ 3D cards.  The plus point of the G550
> is it has a 2nd DVI monitor port, which allows running with two screens.

> I am fed up of Nvidia drivers, they are a PITA.  Prefer the Open Source 2D
> nv driver which is fine except for 3D games, mesasoft does not cut it.

> I had a look at the ATI cards to, but there seemed to be a few driver
> issues there, and the 8500 is not fully supported in XFree-4.2. yet.

> Rob

I have just bought a Sparkle Ti4200 and it works well.
With it you can also play games like Quake with full
3D accelration on Linux.

/FAU

 
 
 

GeForce Ti4200 and Linux

Post by Vladimir Florinsk » Fri, 16 Aug 2002 02:28:28



> I've just gone for a Matrox G550 for similar reason, wanted good 2D and
> an open source DRI based 3D driver, as I _only_ run Linux there's not
> much point in the high end Direct X 8.0+ 3D cards.  The plus point of
> the G550 is it has a 2nd DVI monitor port, which allows running with two
> screens.

Well, until they fix the glx bug with textures (introduced in XFree 4.1
and still present in 4.2), I wouldn't touch another Matrox with a 10 foot
pole. Although the bug affects G200-G450 cards so the G550 could be ok
(pathetic OpenGL performance notwithstanding).

--
Vladimir

 
 
 

GeForce Ti4200 and Linux

Post by Robert Davie » Fri, 16 Aug 2002 07:24:42




>> I've just gone for a Matrox G550 for similar reason, wanted good 2D and
>> an open source DRI based 3D driver, as I _only_ run Linux there's not
>> much point in the high end Direct X 8.0+ 3D cards.  The plus point of
>> the G550 is it has a 2nd DVI monitor port, which allows running with two
>> screens.

> Well, until they fix the glx bug with textures (introduced in XFree 4.1
> and still present in 4.2), I wouldn't touch another Matrox with a 10 foot
> pole. Although the bug affects G200-G450 cards so the G550 could be ok
> (pathetic OpenGL performance notwithstanding).

I've installed my card, and it is much better than the Nvidia with nvidia
3D driver.  I can run at 1600x1200 display without crappy artifacts, and I
doubt the XFree-4 driver will leak memory, or be a complete PITA on kernel,
or XFree updates in future.

My system chose to turn on software cursor, that's presumably due to a
known bug, how do I try and trigger your glx texture bug simply?

The 3D is available for when I do play games, the Linux ones don't seem
to expect the latest high end graphics, they've all been written for older
cards.  There's far too many ppl wasting money on high end graphics cards
for pose value.

Rob

 
 
 

GeForce Ti4200 and Linux

Post by Vladimir Florinsk » Fri, 16 Aug 2002 16:13:10



> I've installed my card, and it is much better than the Nvidia with
> nvidia 3D driver.  I can run at 1600x1200 display without crappy
> artifacts, and I doubt the XFree-4 driver will leak memory

So far from you post I don't see what exactly makes the G550 better that
(some unnamed) nvidia card. I would of course be concerned if mga_drv or
the DRM leaks memory. A good test is to run it for a few months with heavy
OpenGL usage and see if there is a leak. I have an old G200 in my
secondary machine and it is, unfortunately, unstable because of the GLX
bug. But I also have an old GeForce 2 and it has so far failed to
developed a memory leak since I upgraded to RH 7.2 (the machine has been
up since last March - do you think it might still develop a leak if I keep
it running for a few more months? :)

Quote:> or be a complete PITA on kernel, or XFree updates in future.

more often than not the kernel is a complete PITA on X (remember Athlon
AGP and SB Live?)

Quote:> My system chose to turn on software cursor, that's presumably due to a
> known bug, how do I try and trigger your glx texture bug simply?

Well, there isn't really anything to do to "trigger" the bug. The card
just doesn't work in 3D with textures. See this link:

http://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=57814

Quote:> The 3D is available for when I do play games, the Linux ones don't seem
> to expect the latest high end graphics, they've all been written for
> older cards.  There's far too many ppl wasting money on high end
> graphics cards for pose value.

I have to (mostly) agree with you here. I am not much into games, but good
OpenGL performance is also useful in 3D graphics or scientific
visualization (which I do on a regular basis). If the G550 is adequate for
these purposes, it may be good choice. Still, I am a little curious - how
many FPS do you get out of Quake3 at 1280x1024/32 ? :)

--

Vladimir

 
 
 

GeForce Ti4200 and Linux

Post by Robert Davie » Fri, 16 Aug 2002 18:32:16




> OpenGL performance is also useful in 3D graphics or scientific
> visualization (which I do on a regular basis). If the G550 is adequate for
> these purposes, it may be good choice. Still, I am a little curious - how
> many FPS do you get out of Quake3 at 1280x1024/32 ? :)

Quake 3, 0 fps, I don't have Quake3 and I _do_ _not_ care about Quake 3.  
If I were to play Quake3 then why should I worry about a high resolution
andd waste memory on 32bit Colours?

This is benchmarking for the sake of it, and a widespread disease on the
net.

Folk are buying $300+ video cards thinking they need them, when in fact
it's a minority who actually do (gamers and 3D software users eg)
visualisation and CAD).

The reason the Matrox cards, and the ATI are a better choice than Nvidia is
very simple, and I though made clearly and is obvious :

  The driver mga is Open Source software, the code is published, it is
  available for anyone to debug or modify, it is part of XFree-4, noone has
  to sign NDA's, or EULA's.

Nvidia 3D driver's are A PITA, because you have to download RPM's from
their site, and they get in way of kernel upgrades, as well as XFree
upgrade.

Rob

 
 
 

GeForce Ti4200 and Linux

Post by Lee J. Moor » Fri, 16 Aug 2002 18:52:09



Quote:

[..]
> The reason the Matrox cards, and the ATI are a better choice
> than Nvidia is very simple, and I though made clearly and is
> obvious :

Christ, I dumped an ATI Rage 128 Pro based card in favour of
NVidia due to over a year of XFree86 hell.  And not just with 3d
apps either.  I can honestly say that I'd never had such an
unstable system and there were certain apps I had to avoid.
Any kind of multimedia was very much /out/ of the equation by
the time XFree86 4.2.0 arrived.

[..]

Quote:> Nvidia 3D driver's are A PITA, because you have to download
> RPM's from their site, and they get in way of kernel upgrades,
> as well as XFree upgrade.

I've not had this problem yet despite running the Nvidia card
with Gentoo (bang up to date/built from source) for a few
months.  We'll see what happens.

AFA the XFree86 4.2.0 release was concerned, the drm module for
ATI Rage 128 Pro based cards was mismatched (it was the 4.1.0
build, which caused problems with recent kernels) for months and
certainly no update was available by June.  You had to download
'unofficial source' from an XFree contributors site (actually at
xfree86.org) but it was far from stable.

Regards :)
--
Lee J. Moore
http://www.leej.dsl.pipex.com
----------------------------------
Powered by Gentoo (Portage 2.0.27)

 
 
 

GeForce Ti4200 and Linux

Post by Robert Davie » Fri, 16 Aug 2002 19:22:07




> Well, there isn't really anything to do to "trigger" the bug. The card
> just doesn't work in 3D with textures. See this link:

> http://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=57814

Sorry to break the news to you on this, but I checked it out, it looks to
me to be a Red Hat issue (probably their configuration).

Running XFree-4.2, SuSE 7.3, I can play Tux Racer fine (and it is mentioned
in that Bug report).

Thanks for reminding me why I switched away from Red Hat.  I suspect the
option hw_cursor off, which SuSE put in might have something to do with it.

Rob

 
 
 

GeForce Ti4200 and Linux

Post by Chris Co » Sat, 17 Aug 2002 03:04:34


....

Quote:

> Thanks for reminding me why I switched away from Red Hat.  I suspect the
> option hw_cursor off, which SuSE put in might have something to do with it.

> Rob

Probably so... I just did a brand new Nvidia/SuSE 8.0/Athlon install
yesterday.. no problems with 3D (SuSE YOU pulls the Nvidia drivers
now!... BUT remember to put in a /usr/lib/libGL.so symblink for
the older games), chromium/Descent3,Quake3/etc...again using a
GeForce Ti4200 board (Xtasy this time).
 
 
 

GeForce Ti4200 and Linux

Post by Robert Davie » Sat, 17 Aug 2002 03:32:17




>> Christ, I dumped an ATI Rage 128 Pro based card in favour of
> NVidia due to over a year of XFree86 hell.  And not just with 3d
> apps either.  I can honestly say that I'd never had such an
> unstable system and there were certain apps I had to avoid.
> Any kind of multimedia was very much /out/ of the equation by
> the time XFree86 4.2.0 arrived.

I noticed that the driver state on many ATI products was very unclear.  I
considered to buy an ATI Radeon 7500 which was newely well supported but
ruled it out, seeing too many posts about issues with Radeons.  There were
far too many ATI drivers, and very hard to see what the state of them all
was, and which cards were really properly supported.

The info on drivers and graphics cards with XFree could do with improving,
I found it very hard to find solid info, and searching through a bug
database is not accessible enough.

Very many ppl have had problems with the Nvidia 'nvidia' binary only
driver, I think because you use Gentoo you will be less inconvenieced.  As
Gentoo is source based, you compile kernel anyway, so the nvidia kernel
interface module will be rebuilt from source as part of that.  You need not
worry about memory model and SMP options which binary distro uses face.

The sad thing is, the more ppl willing to go your route, and accept binary
the less willing hardware manufacturers will be to open source drivers.  
Generally those included in the kernel distribution are far safer bets than
downloads from manufacturers sites, which is exactly what you don't want,
or one day, you'll find you need to run several different kernels to access
hardware, because of out of date drivers.

Rob

 
 
 

GeForce Ti4200 and Linux

Post by Stuart Le » Sat, 17 Aug 2002 08:23:58


  [...]

Quote:>The reason the Matrox cards, and the ATI are a better choice than Nvidia is
>very simple, and I though made clearly and is obvious :

>  The driver mga is Open Source software, the code is published, it is
>  available for anyone to debug or modify, it is part of XFree-4, noone has
>  to sign NDA's, or EULA's.

I can understand the desire to do this, but have to say that I think
NVidia are doing a really good job of supporting their closed-source driver.
And one NVidia developer is an extremely active and helpful participant
on the xpert (XFree86) mailing list.  Though it'd be nice if they could
offer an open-source driver, I'm happy with a well-supported closed-source one,
given that their hardware works so well.

Quote:>Nvidia 3D driver's are A PITA, because you have to download RPM's from
>their site, and they get in way of kernel upgrades, as well as XFree
>upgrade.

I don't see how it's much of a pain.  Rather than retrieving their
binary RPMs, you can just fetch the source tarball (or rpmball)
and compile it when you upgrade a kernel.  That's what I do.
Assuming you build kernels from source, the NVidia driver build
process is really painless.

It does prevent me from switching to the 2.5.x (non-stable)
kernel series, but that seems a small price to pay.

I've never encountered any trouble with XFree86 version mismatches,
either.

Quote:>Rob

    Stuart Levy
 
 
 

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