Very Computer

I want to install Linux onto my PC, but I'm finding it difficult to find out
just what hardware is supported.

I've tried out the Suse Eval CD and it runs OK, but can't find my scanner
and doesn't give any 3d acceleration. It also lists a lot of "unknown"
devices that still seem to work (my Intel Gigabit LAN for example).

The MandrakeMove CD boots, but fails because it can't even find the video
adapter.

...I don't know of any other evaluation CD's.

My PC consists of...
- P4 2.6 CPU
- Asus P4C800E-Deluxe mainboard with
  - 875P chipset
  - Promise onboard RAID through SATA and one PATA port (PDC20378)
  - Intel RAID through SATA ports
  - Intel gigabite LAN (82547EI)
  - VIA Firewire (VT6307)
  - AC'97 sound (AD1985)
  - USB 2
- 512meg PC4200 memory
- ATI 9600XT video card
- MSI TV Anywhere Master TV tuner (8606, using MT2050 tuner chip and CX23883
decoder)
- Maxtor 80 gig, 2meg buffer PATA hard drive
- LG 40x CDRW (GCE-8400B)
- Pioneer DVD writer (DVR-105)
- Logitech MX700 cordless mouse (8 button + wheel)
- Mustek CU1200 bearpaw USB scanner
- Kodak DX4530 camera
- HP JetDirect ethernet print server with Epson photo700 connected.

I'm finally tired of dealing with Microsofts *and spyware and DotNet,
etc. and want to take down my Windows server, start programming in something
not dominated by Microsoft and get back to being productive.

Usually, I'd only consider RedHat, Suse or Mandrake but I haven't been doing
anything with Linux for a long while so I don't know what the decent distros
are anymore.

I'm posting here because I'm not having much luck with Google... Too much
spam showing up there and while I get lots of hits, they are mostly not
related to my search. I'm definately not new to computers but I am to Linux.

- Will I have lots of issues with this hardware under Linux?
- Can someone suggest a decent distro that is up to date, not too difficult
to use (editing config files is fine, IF I can find them! - partitioning is
a breeze - I just installed Quake... where did it go???  - this is about
where I stand),  and provides a decent desktop interface.

Any info is appreciated!

Quote:> I want to install Linux onto my PC, but I'm finding it difficult to find out
> just what hardware is supported.
[..]
> My PC consists of...
> - P4 2.6 CPU
[..]
> - Will I have lots of issues with this hardware under Linux?

AFAIK among the best places to check for hardware support:

http://hardwaredb.suse.de/?LANG=en_UK

Quote:> - Can someone suggest a decent distro that is up to date, not too difficult
> to use (editing config files is fine, IF I can find them! - partitioning is
> a breeze - I just installed Quake... where did it go???  - this is about

Install the slocate package, run 'updatedb' as root (should be
setup while installing the package once a day from cron
auto-magically). Now you can use 'locate' for a fast file search
through all your filesystems.

(From my box running RH)

$ rpm -qf `which locate`
slocate-2.6-1

Quote:> where I stand),  and provides a decent desktop interface.

See above URL.

Good luck

--
Michael Heiming

Remove +SIGNS and www. if you expect an answer, sorry for
inconvenience, but I get tons of SPAM

Suggest you try knoppix. It is another live cd but can be copied to disk
to give you a disk based distro - it is very good at detecting hardware.
Only thing I saw on the list that might be a problem would be the scanner.
 Also visit www.distrowatch.com and www.yolinux.com.

[snip]

Quote:> - ATI 9600XT video card

The *only* way to get 3D support from that card is to download and
install ATI's own drivers.  (http://www.atitech.ca/)

The instructions seem fairly straightforward... Just need to check which
versions of which packages come with which distro.

Thanks!

Quote:>...I don't know of any other evaluation CD's.

As someone suggested, Knoppix which is Debian-based might be a good
try, supposedly it's good at hardware detection.

Quote:>My PC consists of...
>- P4 2.6 CPU

OK.

Quote:>- Asus P4C800E-Deluxe mainboard with
>  - 875P chipset

Came out in spring of this year (the chipset).  Problems?  Who knows?

Quote:>  - Promise onboard RAID through SATA and one PATA port (PDC20378)
>  - Intel RAID through SATA ports

RAID is supported under Linux kernels, but SATA RAID?  Anybody know?
This is new stuff.

Quote:>  - Intel gigabyte LAN (82547EI)

Can't be sure but Net posts seem to indicate it may be supported by at
least Red Hat 8.0 kernels and maybe Debian.

Quote:>  - VIA Firewire (VT6307)

If this causes trouble, try here: http://www.veryComputer.com/

Quote:>  - AC'97 sound (AD1985)

Should be fine with ALSA, maybe OSS (I use ALSA).

Quote:>  - USB 2

Any problems, go here: http://www.veryComputer.com/

Quote:>- 512meg PC4200 memory

Fine.

Quote:>- ATI 9600XT video card

This thing came out in OCTOBER 2003.  That's three months ago!  How
long do you think it takes someone to get the card and write a driver
for it if the manufacturer doesn't?  However it appears they may have!

Try this driver:
http://www.veryComputer.com/

(URL will probably wrap.)

Quote:>- MSI TV Anywhere Master TV tuner (8606, using MT2050 tuner chip and CX23883
>decoder)

From a post on the Net re video4linux and that tuner:

Be careful of the nrewer pinnacle cards as they have replaced the
tuner (MT2030) with a MT2050 and the newer tuner isn't yet supported.
Unfortunately their is no way of telling from the box which tuner is
included as the model numbers of the cards haven't changed...

Another post I found on the Net indicated that the tuner manufacturer
is not releasing specs to people who want to write drivers - same old
story.

If the TV card is a BTTV-supported chipset
(Bt848/Bt848a/Bt849/Bt878/Bt879 chips) or a conexant 2388x chip, it
might work.

Quote:>- Maxtor 80 gig, 2meg buffer PATA hard drive

Should be okay.

Quote:>- LG 40x CDRW (GCE-8400B)

Should be okay.

Quote:>- Pioneer DVD writer (DVR-105)

Dunno.  DVD writing support is available software-wise with some
looking - something called DVDTools is around somewhere.

Quote:>- Logitech MX700 cordless mouse (8 button + wheel)

Dunno.

Quote:>- Mustek CU1200 bearpaw USB scanner

From a site on the Net:
Scan Express 1200UB Plus, A3 USB, BearPaw 1200CU, 2400CU, 1200TA,
2400TA, 2400TA Plus

These scanners are based on the GT6801 and GT-6816 scanner chips from
Grantech. A beta SANE backend based on the work done by Sergey Vlasov
can be found at http://www.veryComputer.com/

According to a * search here http://www.veryComputer.com/
this is supported.

Quote:>- Kodak DX4530 camera

Found this post on the Net:

On Thu, Dec 18, 2003 at 07:47:30PM -0600, John Foster <[EMAIL

 Just do it. I have the Easy Share dock as well, but with Kodak DX4530
camera. It just works with Debian Sarge and 2.6.0 kernel. You need to
install gphoto2 and gtkam for GUI operations. So, connect the Easy
Share dock to your computer, place the camera on it. Press the Kodak
button, the green LED should flash now, and you get a message like
'new USB device on port ...'. Turn on your camera (does not matter
which position, the green LED on the camera also flashes). Fire up
gtkam and enjoy. Ofcourse first try it with root, and if it's ok, then
set it up for the user(s):
http://www.veryComputer.com/

Quote:> I just got this neat camera & I hate to have to resort to Windows
> to use it as That would be the ONLY thing I would need Windows for.

 As mentioned above, it work under Linux:
http://www.veryComputer.com/

Quote:>- HP JetDirect ethernet print server with Epson photo700 connected.

Jetdirect, supported under CUPS (Common UNIX Printing System),
apparently.

Epson Stylus Photo 700 entirely supported by CUPS and Gimp-Print
drivers - see here
http://www.veryComputer.com/

I'll tell you what the problem is - this is a very recent cutting edge
machine.  So you are going to need the absolute latest cutting-edge
distro if you want the bulk of the hardware supported.

People have got to stop trying to get Linux to recognize hardware that
came out last week.

Quote:>Usually, I'd only consider RedHat, Suse or Mandrake but I haven't been doing
>anything with Linux for a long while so I don't know what the decent distros
>are anymore.

Same ones - companies with at least some money.  Although a lot of
people swear by Debian, so I'm not knocking them at all.

Quote:>- Will I have lots of issues with this hardware under Linux?

See my comments above.  The newer stuff might be hard to get to work,
although you might get most of it to work at some level, then sit back
and wait for updated drivers to use at full potential - especially
that video card.

Quote:>- Can someone suggest a decent distro that is up to date, not too difficult
>to use

The latest of any of the big three - I would suggest SUSE since they
seem to be a little more cutting edge on hardware support supposedly,
Mandrake second.

Quote:>editing config files is fine, IF I can find them!

Most of them should be in /etc or a subdirectory thereof.

Quote:> - partitioning is a breeze

Usually is these days.  Are you going to dual-boot?  The main thing to
remember is BACKUP before installing.  A Linux installer can trash the
partition table if it gets confused by the hard drive geometry or
BIOS.  Happened to me.

Quote:> - I just installed Quake... where did it go???

Things go where they should (usually).  Go here and read up on where
things SHOULD go: http://www.veryComputer.com/

When you start installing stuff, try to stick to rpms (or whatever
package format) for your distro initially.  When you need to install
from source tarballs or source rpms, read up on that (it's not hard),
especially rpmbuild for the latter.  Install the Checkinstall package
which builds rpms during the usual source configure/make/make install
process and installs them.  Install the KConfigure package which is a
GUI front end to the configure/make/make install process.  Learn about
apt-get (for Debian) and apt-rpm utilities that install programs and
handle the dependencies for you more or less automatically.

Quote:>provides a decent desktop interface.

KDE and GNOME, the latter the better (your system is powerful enough
to run them easily).

Hope this helps.

--
Richard Steven Hack
"Whatever does not kill me makes me stronger" -
and YOU have not killed me!

Comments interspersed within the posting...

It looks pretty nice. Not quite as nice as I found Suse but definately
impressed me. I do have the same problem with it that I have with Suse
though... It keeps asking for the ROOT password when making some
configuration changes, but there isn't supposed to be a ROOT password (at
least that I can find in the docs or Google).

Quote:> >My PC consists of...
> >- P4 2.6 CPU

Just to brag... this is running stable at 246Mhz = 3.21Ghz with memory at
1:1

Quote:> >  - Intel gigabyte LAN (82547EI)

> Can't be sure but Net posts seem to indicate it may be supported by at
> least Red Hat 8.0 kernels and maybe Debian.

Suse and Knoppix connect to the net right from the evaluation CD's so I'm
sure I'll have no issues with the LAN.

Quote:> >- ATI 9600XT video card

> This thing came out in OCTOBER 2003.  That's three months ago!  How
> long do you think it takes someone to get the card and write a driver
> for it if the manufacturer doesn't?  However it appears they may have!

> Try this driver:

http://www.veryComputer.com/

Once I have a distro chosen and installed properly I will definately give it
a go. There isn't a whole lot of Linux stuff that needs the acceleration
anyhow.

Quote:> >- MSI TV Anywhere Master TV tuner (8606, using MT2050 tuner chip and
CX23883
> >decoder)

> From a post on the Net re video4linux and that tuner:

> Be careful of the nrewer pinnacle cards as they have replaced the
> tuner (MT2030) with a MT2050 and the newer tuner isn't yet supported.

I have problems getting support for the MT2050 chip even under Windows
actually. Video/Audio should be fine, but the TV/FM tuner isn't supported by
ANYTHING!

Quote:> >- LG 40x CDRW (GCE-8400B)

> Should be okay.

Except for Mandrake 9.2!!! I've got two firmware updates for this thing and
I'm not sure which one should be applied. LG can't be bothered to help
either.

Quote:> >- Logitech MX700 cordless mouse (8 button + wheel)

> Dunno.

Support seems kinda weird on the evaluation disks. I think this is for
compatability sake. Should be fine once I get something installed and
configured.

Quote:> >- Mustek CU1200 bearpaw USB scanner

> From a site on the Net:
> Scan Express 1200UB Plus, A3 USB, BearPaw 1200CU, 2400CU, 1200TA,
> 2400TA, 2400TA Plus

> These scanners are based on the GT6801 and GT-6816 scanner chips from
> Grantech. A beta SANE backend based on the work done by Sergey Vlasov
> can be found at http://www.veryComputer.com/

Definately not working from the eval CD's. It gets recognized, but SANE
doesn't install properly or there are other issues.

Quote:> According to a * search here http://www.veryComputer.com/
> this is supported.

> >- Kodak DX4530 camera
<snip>
> gtkam and enjoy. Ofcourse first try it with root, and if it's ok, then
> set it up for the user(s):
> http://www.veryComputer.com/

As long as I can copy photos out of the camera I'll be happy.

Quote:> >- HP JetDirect ethernet print server with Epson photo700 connected.

> Jetdirect, supported under CUPS (Common UNIX Printing System),
> apparently.

Tried to get Knoppix to print to it, but nothing ever came through to the
server. Internet works so I know the NIC is supported. I know the support is
there so I'll worry about it after a good install.

Quote:> I'll tell you what the problem is - this is a very recent cutting edge
> machine.  So you are going to need the absolute latest cutting-edge
> distro if you want the bulk of the hardware supported.

Yup... that's why I'm here!

Quote:> People have got to stop trying to get Linux to recognize hardware that
> came out last week.

Why? If Linux wants to compete with Microsoft it's going to have to catch
up! Now I don't EXPECT everything to happen as quickly, but I'd hope that
developers are TRYING to match Microsoft.

Quote:> >Usually, I'd only consider RedHat, Suse or Mandrake but I haven't been
doing
> >anything with Linux for a long while so I don't know what the decent
distros
> >are anymore.

I'd probably choose RedHat, but I don't know what's happening now that
they've gone totally commercial.
Knoppix looks a bit "flashier" than Suse, but I did find a couple rough
edges. I just wish that the Mandrake eval CD would have worked.

Quote:> >- Can someone suggest a decent distro that is up to date, not too
difficult
> >to use

> The latest of any of the big three - I would suggest SUSE since they
> seem to be a little more cutting edge on hardware support supposedly,
> Mandrake second.

I think you're right... Now to deal with that stupid FTP install!!! Might
just be easier to snoop for ISO's on the newsgroups.

Quote:> >editing config files is fine, IF I can find them!

> Most of them should be in /etc or a subdirectory thereof.

Yup... I'll figure it out. Can't learn it if I don't try.

Quote:> > - partitioning is a breeze

> Usually is these days.  Are you going to dual-boot?  The main thing to
> remember is BACKUP before installing.  A Linux installer can trash the
> partition table if it gets confused by the hard drive geometry or
> BIOS.  Happened to me.

I've dealt with this MANY times... OS/2, Multi MS OS's, Linux, etc... Won't
be a problem here.

Quote:> > - I just installed Quake... where did it go???

> Things go where they should (usually).  Go here and read up on where
> things SHOULD go: http://www.veryComputer.com/

I'm used to double-clicking SETUP and then looking under the START button
when it's done. I'm still trying to figure out how to use GREP and such.

Quote:> When you start installing stuff, try to stick to rpms (or whatever
> package format) for your distro initially.  When you need to install
> from source tarballs or source rpms, read up on that (it's not hard),
> especially rpmbuild for the latter.  Install the Checkinstall package
> which builds rpms during the usual source configure/make/make install
> process and installs them.  Install the KConfigure package which is a
> GUI front end to the configure/make/make install process.  Learn about
> apt-get (for Debian) and apt-rpm utilities that install programs and
> handle the dependencies for you more or less automatically.

Will do. Much of the documentation I find just assumes that the user knows
what they are doing and omits some of the smaller details. Makes it
difficult for the newbies!

Quote:> >provides a decent desktop interface.

> KDE and GNOME, the latter the better (your system is powerful enough
> to run them easily).

I always thought that KDE was the leader. Nothing really to support that
except what I've heard over the years. I'll try installing GNOME and see how
different it is.

Quote:> Hope this helps.

Oh it DOES!!!!!!!!! I ***REALLY*** appreciate the amout of effort you put
into your posting. MUCH more than I ever expected. Give yourself a pat on
the back... You REALLY helped out a great deal!

THANK YOU!

On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 20:49:19 GMT, Noozer staggered into the Black Sun
and said:

Many utilities like YaST and anything in KDE that directly modifies
superuser things (like the system clock) ask for a password.  This is by
design.  If Knoppix doesn't have a root password, then in the window
where you're supposed to type root's password, don't type anything, just
hit Return.

Quote:>> >- ATI 9600XT video card
>> Try this driver:
> http://www.veryComputer.com/

> Once I have a distro chosen and installed properly I will definately
> give it a go. There isn't a whole lot of Linux stuff that needs the
> acceleration anyhow.

You'd be surprised how much acceleration helps.  Trying to run anything
on a VESA framebuffer is really terrible when you're used to running
accelerated, and forget using nice things like video overlay support in
VESA.

Quote:>> >- Logitech MX700 cordless mouse (8 button + wheel)
>> Dunno.
> Support seems kinda weird on the evaluation disks. I think this is for
> compatability sake. Should be fine once I get something installed and
> configured.

I'm not sure whether all of them will be supported, or by which
protocol, but every PS/2 mouse made recently seems to support the IMPS/2
protocol.  If you use that, you'll have wheel scrolling, but the 6 extra
buttons may not work.  (*8* buttons and a wheel?  Good grief.  Pretty
soon, they'll have all the keys you need to play Quake right there on
the mouse...)

Quote:>> I'll tell you what the problem is - this is a very recent cutting
>> edge machine.  So you are going to need the absolute latest
>> cutting-edge distro if you want the bulk of the hardware supported.
>> People have got to stop trying to get Linux to recognize hardware
>> that came out last week.

> Why? If Linux wants to compete with Microsoft it's going to have to
> catch up! Now I don't EXPECT everything to happen as quickly, but I'd
> hope that developers are TRYING to match Microsoft.

Microsoft has an advantage in this particular fight:  They can sell the
hardware companies a chunk of driver development code, and the hardware
companies then have to use this code to create a Windows driver for
their hardware.  No Windows driver = no sales of hardware thanks to the
near-monopoly of Windows.

IMO, it'd be better for hardware companies to publish register-level
programming specs for their hardware and let Microsoft write all their
own *y drivers, but tradition, hardware companies' paranoia, and
Microsoft's huge piles of money mean this won't happen.

[snip]

Quote:>> The latest of any of the big three - I would suggest SUSE since they
>> seem to be a little more cutting edge on hardware support supposedly,
> I think you're right... Now to deal with that stupid FTP install!!!
> Might just be easier to snoop for ISO's on the newsgroups.

I was startled to find a recently-installed SuSE box using a newer gcc
version than my Gentoo box was at the time.  (Gentoo is widely
considered a bleeding-edge distro.)  Of course, I've updated my gcc
several times since then, while he's probably still using the same one.
And if you're downloading ISOs from your newsswerver, you definitely
have enough bandwidth to do an FTP install.  It's not difficult, just
takes a few hours.

Quote:>> Things go where they should (usually).  Go here and read up on where
>> things SHOULD go: http://www.veryComputer.com/
> I'm used to double-clicking SETUP and then looking under the START
> button when it's done.

There is currently no single standard way to create an entry in the KDE
menu, the GNOME menu, the IceWM menu, the fvwm2 menu, the Enlightment
menu, and whatever other desktop environments exist.  If you install an
RPM for your distro, all the entries should be created in the right
place on your desktop environment's menu.

Quote:> I'm still trying to figure out how to use GREP and such.

grep is never capitalized.  Handy options to grep include:
-NUMBER display NUMBER lines of context around each matched line
-i case insensitive search
-r search everything recursively.  "cd / ; grep -r FOO *" goes through
   every file on your filesystem looking for lines matching FOO.
-l don't print matching lines, just print the name of a file that
   matched
-AN print N lines of context after the matching line
-BN print N lines of context before the matching line

grep is not really intended for the point-n-drool user; if you want
something more like that, use the Contents tab in KDE's "Find Files"
tool (or whatever the GNOME equivalent is.)

Quote:>> When you start installing stuff, try to stick to rpms (or whatever
>> package format) for your distro initially.

If your distro uses RPM, you will eventually run into RPM Dependency
Hell.  There are now a couple of tools that make managing that a lot
easier, but those tools haven't really proven themselves in the way that
apt and portage have yet.

Quote:>> Learn about apt-get (for Debian) and apt-rpm utilities that install
>> programs and handle the dependencies for you more or less
>> automatically.

I wouldn't suggest Debian because this hardware's so new/unsupported and
Debian doesn't have a good track record with new hardware.  Debian Woody
is still running X 4.1.0, for Goddess's sake!  

Quote:> Much of the documentation I find just assumes that the user knows what
> they are doing and omits some of the smaller details. Makes it
> difficult for the newbies!

That's where sites like http://www.veryComputer.com/;If
you're reading man pages, the best thing to do is frequently to skip
down to the "examples" section, then read that.

Quote:>> >provides a decent desktop interface.
>> KDE and GNOME, the latter the better (your system is powerful enough
>> to run them easily).

You forgot your <IMHO> tag there.

Quote:> I always thought that KDE was the leader.  Nothing really to support
> that except what I've heard over the years.

Back in 1999, KDE was definitely easier to deal with than GNOME for a
person who was used to Windows.  KDE's default behavior and default look
in the file manager is still pretty Windows-like, if that's a
consideration.  GNOME keeps changing their file manager ("sawfish! ...
no, wait, Nautilus! ... no, wait, Metacity!") while KDE's stuck with
konqueror since KDE 2 first came out (and konqueror behaves much like
KDE 1's file manager with some new features.)

Quote:> I'll try installing GNOME and see how different it is.

Try using Metacity instead of Nautilus, since Nautilus is a bloated
sack.  HTH,

--
Matt G|There is no Darkness in Eternity/But only Light too dim for us to see
Brainbench MVP for Linux Admin /    mail: TRAP + SPAN don't belong
http://www.veryComputer.com/     /                Hire me!
-----------------------------/ http://www.veryComputer.com/~mhgraham/resume

Quote:>> As someone suggested, Knoppix which is Debian-based might be a good
>> try, supposedly it's good at hardware detection.

>It keeps asking for the ROOT password when making some
>configuration changes, but there isn't supposed to be a ROOT password (at
>least that I can find in the docs or Google).

I believe the accounts are locked but I think there is supposed to be
somewhere in the menus where you can set the root password to
something other than what they have.  A quick Google says this:

you need to click the k button on kde, go to KNOPPIX menu, choose root
shell.

Also this:

 By default, all passwords in knoppix except for the default knoppix
login, are locked out. Also all commands are available to the knoppix
user via sudo  So another way to get root access, is to
sudo /usr/sbin/passwd -u root
sudo /usr/sbin/passwd root
***type new password twice***
switch to a shell (eg. ctrl + alt + f1)
login as root

Quote:>> >  - Intel gigabyte LAN (82547EI)

>> Can't be sure but Net posts seem to indicate it may be supported by at
>> least Red Hat 8.0 kernels and maybe Debian.

>Suse and Knoppix connect to the net right from the evaluation CD's so I'm
>sure I'll have no issues with the LAN.

Cool.

Quote:

>> >- ATI 9600XT video card
>Once I have a distro chosen and installed properly I will definately give it
>a go. There isn't a whole lot of Linux stuff that needs the acceleration
>anyhow.

That's the approach.  Use it as best you can now, wait for the updated
drivers.

Quote:>> >- LG 40x CDRW (GCE-8400B)

>Except for Mandrake 9.2!!! I've got two firmware updates for this thing and
>I'm not sure which one should be applied. LG can't be bothered to help
>either.

Really, hmmpf.  Are the firmware updates needed to get it to work, or
are they just updates?

Quote:>> People have got to stop trying to get Linux to recognize hardware that
>> came out last week.

>Why? If Linux wants to compete with Microsoft it's going to have to catch
>up! Now I don't EXPECT everything to happen as quickly, but I'd hope that
>developers are TRYING to match Microsoft.

Problem isn't the developers, it's the hardware manufacturers.  Either
they don't care about Linux, or they want to charge a developer $100k
for the specs to write the driver for Linux.

The reality is, until Linux gets more desktop market share or until
the big boys (IBM, HP, Novell, etc.) get down on the peripheral
manufacturers about their lack of support for Linux, Linux is always
going to be behind.  And the end user needs to take that into account.
Nothing to do with Linux per se, it's the industry.

Quote:>I'd probably choose RedHat, but I don't know what's happening now that
>they've gone totally commercial.

If you need a server edition, they or SUSE are the way to go.  For
workstation use, Fedora may have new-distro issues and is new in any
event.  Mandrake and SUSE are the way to go, with Debian a solid
third.

Quote:>Now to deal with that stupid FTP install!

By the way, SUSE now has a live-eval CD version as an ISO image on
their FTP server.  The ISO image is located in the respective
directory under ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/suse/i386/

Quote:>Yup... I'll figure it out. Can't learn it if I don't try.

Now THAT attitude will get you very far in Linux!

Quote:>I'm used to double-clicking SETUP and then looking under the START button
>when it's done. I'm still trying to figure out how to use GREP and such.

Man find and man locate first, then grep!

Quote:>> >provides a decent desktop interface.

>> KDE and GNOME, the latter the better (your system is powerful enough
>> to run them easily).

Oops, I meant the LATER the better, for either one.  I'm partial to
KDE myself.

Quote:>Oh it DOES!!!!!!!!! I ***REALLY*** appreciate the amout of effort you put
>into your posting. MUCH more than I ever expected. Give yourself a pat on
>the back... You REALLY helped out a great deal!

>THANK YOU!

You're welcome.  I like helping people with computer problems when I
can - as long as I don't*it up!

--
Richard Steven Hack
"Whatever does not kill me makes me stronger" -
and YOU have not killed me!

On 17 Jan 2004 23:03:50 GMT, Dances With Crows

That's why I said this below.

Quote:>>> Learn about apt-get (for Debian) and apt-rpm utilities that install
>>> programs and handle the dependencies for you more or less
>>> automatically.

>I wouldn't suggest Debian

Wasn't, although many people do.  I was pointing him to the original
apt-get concept.

Quote:>>> >provides a decent desktop interface.
>>> KDE and GNOME, the latter the better (your system is powerful enough
>>> to run them easily).

>You forgot your <IMHO> tag there.

That was a typo - I meant to say "the LATER the better" for either of
them.  I'm partial to KDE myself.

--
Richard Steven Hack
"Whatever does not kill me makes me stronger" -
and YOU have not killed me!

<snip>

Quote:> >> >- LG 40x CDRW (GCE-8400B)

> >Except for Mandrake 9.2!!! I've got two firmware updates for this thing
and
> >I'm not sure which one should be applied. LG can't be bothered to help
> >either.

> Really, hmmpf.  Are the firmware updates needed to get it to work, or
> are they just updates?

Mandrake 9.2 will ERASE the firmware in many LG CDRom and CDRW drives. LG
decided that since nobody uses the BUFFER_FLUSH command that they would use
it for WRITE_FIRMWARE instead. Mandrake has some info in their errata. LG
doesn't mention anything about it on their site... so I don't know which of
the two firmware updates are best.

Quote:> >> People have got to stop trying to get Linux to recognize hardware that
> >> came out last week.

> >Why? If Linux wants to compete with Microsoft it's going to have to catch
> >up! Now I don't EXPECT everything to happen as quickly, but I'd hope that
> >developers are TRYING to match Microsoft.

> Problem isn't the developers, it's the hardware manufacturers.  Either
> they don't care about Linux, or they want to charge a developer $100k
> for the specs to write the driver for Linux.

Ya... it's stupid. What can you do though?

Quote:> The reality is, until Linux gets more desktop market share or until
> the big boys (IBM, HP, Novell, etc.) get down on the peripheral
> manufacturers about their lack of support for Linux, Linux is always
> going to be behind.  And the end user needs to take that into account.
> Nothing to do with Linux per se, it's the industry.

IBM is working hard to get Window out of their offices. Europe seems to be
shunning Microsoft as well. There IS hope out there!

Quote:> >Now to deal with that stupid FTP install!

> By the way, SUSE now has a live-eval CD version as an ISO image on
> their FTP server.  The ISO image is located in the respective
> directory under ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/suse/i386/

Already tried it... Looks good and works with most of my hardware. Can't do
too much more with it until I get a real installation.

Quote:> >I'm used to double-clicking SETUP and then looking under the START button
> >when it's done. I'm still trying to figure out how to use GREP and such.

> Man find and man locate first, then grep!

Oh.. I know. Just seems that almost any task involves grep at some point.
 : )

Thanks again!

Quote:> >> >...I don't know of any other evaluation CD's.
> >> As someone suggested, Knoppix which is Debian-based might be a good
> >> try, supposedly it's good at hardware detection.
> > I do have the same problem with it that I have with Suse though... It
> > keeps asking for the ROOT password when making some configuration
> > changes, but there isn't supposed to be a ROOT password (at least that
> > I can find in the docs or Google).

> Many utilities like YaST and anything in KDE that directly modifies
> superuser things (like the system clock) ask for a password.  This is by
> design.  If Knoppix doesn't have a root password, then in the window
> where you're supposed to type root's password, don't type anything, just
> hit Return.

Tried it but no go. Not a big issue, but would be nice to be able to set up
a printer, etc. for evaluation.

Quote:> >> >- Logitech MX700 cordless mouse (8 button + wheel)
> >> Dunno.
> > Support seems kinda weird on the evaluation disks. I think this is for
> > compatability sake. Should be fine once I get something installed and
> > configured.

> I'm not sure whether all of them will be supported, or by which
> protocol, but every PS/2 mouse made recently seems to support the IMPS/2
> protocol.  If you use that, you'll have wheel scrolling, but the 6 extra
> buttons may not work.  (*8* buttons and a wheel?  Good grief.  Pretty
> soon, they'll have all the keys you need to play Quake right there on
> the mouse...)

Most of them are useless, but they are there.

Quote:> >> The latest of any of the big three - I would suggest SUSE since they
> >> seem to be a little more cutting edge on hardware support supposedly,
> > I think you're right... Now to deal with that stupid FTP install!!!
> > Might just be easier to snoop for ISO's on the newsgroups.

> I was startled to find a recently-installed SuSE box using a newer gcc
> version than my Gentoo box was at the time.  (Gentoo is widely
> considered a bleeding-edge distro.)  Of course, I've updated my gcc
> several times since then, while he's probably still using the same one.
> And if you're downloading ISOs from your newsswerver, you definitely
> have enough bandwidth to do an FTP install.  It's not difficult, just
> takes a few hours.

Haven't looked at Gentoo... Is it something a Linux newbie (not a computer
newbie) could get their head around?

Quote:> > I'm still trying to figure out how to use GREP and such.

> grep is never capitalized.

Well... I could post in HTML and then use a fixed font for system commands
and proportional font for other text. Of course I'd get flamed to death.
 : )

Quote:> That's where sites like http://linuxnewbies.org/ can come in handy.  If
> you're reading man pages, the best thing to do is frequently to skip
> down to the "examples" section, then read that.

Been there a few times. It can definately be helpful.

Quote:> > I'll try installing GNOME and see how different it is.

> Try using Metacity instead of Nautilus, since Nautilus is a bloated
> sack.  HTH,

Bloated sack? Not written by the same minds as Netscape is it?  : )

Quote:>>>> >provides a decent desktop interface.
>>>> KDE and GNOME, the latter the better (your system is powerful enough
>>>> to run them easily).

>>You forgot your <IMHO> tag there.

> That was a typo - I meant to say "the LATER the better" for either of
> them.  I'm partial to KDE myself.

That's also your HO.  IMHO, Gnome2 is unusable.

--
M?ns Rullg?rd

It is one thing to be very partial to some desktop manager/browser,
etc.  It is quote another to outright discredit the other choices.
Why do you say Gnome2 is unusable? Have you even looked at recent
Gnomes (pun intended)?  I've always been a Gnome user. For a mostly
command line person, the simplicity of Gnome is much preferred over
the large array of items in KDE menus.    Don't get me wrong, KDE is
visually stunning, and there are some KDE apps I can't live without
(k3b, font installer and juk).  The handling of applets is much better
in Gnome.  Weather applet has alwas been there, it uses the standard
xscreensaver package, with many more choices than KDE's. (You can use
xscreensaver in KDE, but don't know whether KDE's GUI config system
allows you to access that, like Gnome).  As for the filemanager
comment, it is mostly irrelevant to me.  I do use it sometimes, but
emacs dired and command line is my filemanager.  In later Gnomes,
fonts are also handled more consistently.  All in all, I'd say
simplicity is a major factor for me going with Gnome all these years.

--
- Pankaj

----------------------------------------------------------------------
            One OS to rule them all, one OS to find them,
       One OS to bring them all and in the darkness bind them,
            In the Land of Redmond where the Shadows lie.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

<snip>

Quote:> > I was startled to find a recently-installed SuSE box using a newer gcc
> > version than my Gentoo box was at the time.  (Gentoo is widely
> > considered a bleeding-edge distro.)  Of course, I've updated my gcc
> > several times since then, while he's probably still using the same one.
> > And if you're downloading ISOs from your newsswerver, you definitely
> > have enough bandwidth to do an FTP install.  It's not difficult, just
> > takes a few hours.

> Haven't looked at Gentoo... Is it something a Linux newbie (not a computer
> newbie) could get their head around?

I'm a Gentoo devotee myself, but for a newbie, I'd say stay away from
it for a few months. The install instructions are great, but there are just
some places where you can go wrong, and if that happens, being a
newbie, you might be a little frustrated.

--
- Pankaj

----------------------------------------------------------------------
            One OS to rule them all, one OS to find them,
       One OS to bring them all and in the darkness bind them,
            In the Land of Redmond where the Shadows lie.
----------------------------------------------------------------------