Need Linux video card infor for PVR/With TV-out....

Need Linux video card infor for PVR/With TV-out....

Post by Kell » Fri, 08 Feb 2002 08:30:26



Hi All,

I've been reading and getting e*d about trying to put together a
PVR on a linux box.  I saw the the Haupague cards were the most widely
used...then, before buying one...just happened to look at see that
there was no TV-out on most of their cards....

I'm assuming most people would want to watch their recorded tv shows
ON a tv rather than a monitor....or am I wrong here?

The only TV out on a Win-TV I've been able to find out about (their
website has no details on the cards)...was their PVR card...and as
I've been reading...isn't really supported. I can't tell if their
Win-TV Theater card has video out..... I'm having problems finding
other cards to use for this project.

Most sites on this subject (linux pvr) only list chipsets...and I
don't see that advertiesed much on the product's sites...or even on
their boxes. I would like some brand names...

So, need some help please.

For a linux PVR project, what card works the best...and has a TV-Out
so I can watch my recorded shows on my TV. Assuming this is possible?

TIA,

Kelly


 
 
 

Need Linux video card infor for PVR/With TV-out....

Post by Warren Youn » Fri, 08 Feb 2002 10:51:15



> The only TV out on a Win-TV I've been able to find out about (their
> website has no details on the cards)...was their PVR card...and as
> I've been reading...isn't really supported.

Ummm, I didn't know there was TV out on the PVR, and I own one!

No, this card is for watching TV on your Windows machine -- thus the
name "WinTV".  That's why they build it, it's what they're good at, and
you shouldn't be surprised when they do little more than this with
evolutionary products like the WinTV PVR and the WinTV HD.

Quote:> So, need some help please.

I suppose you could hook a scan converter to your VGA card, or get a
card with TV out built in.  They're not terribly hard to find.  Then
your problem becomes controlling the card from across the room, and
getting the thing to decode the encoded video to a full screen display,
etc.

"Home Theatre PCs" are a catchphrase only at the moment.  They aren't
really "here" yet, except as toys for computer geeks.  Really, the way
things are going is the way of the TiVo -- the tech may grow up and
mature on PCs, but for final packaging and polishing, it gets turned
over to the consumer electronics people, who like nice, neat, dedicated
boxes.

Hmmmm...a device that runs Linux, records live TV, and can pause,
resume, and play back in real time.  Sounds just like a TiVo to me.
--
= MPEG articles: http://tangentsoft.net/video/mpeg/

 
 
 

Need Linux video card infor for PVR/With TV-out....

Post by Kell » Sat, 09 Feb 2002 06:08:46


Thanks for the reply!!

Yes...I am wanting to build my own 'Tivo'....I've gotten this idea
from sites like:

http://bytesex.org/
http://www.cadsoft.de/people/kls/vdr/index.htm
http://www.exploits.org/v4l/
http://www.linuxtv.org/
http://linuxtv.openprojects.net/

From these...and links on them...and stuff I've read in the groups,
I've thought this was what people were doing....recording TV onto
their HD's....and watching either on computer monitor OR regular
TV....and even burning into VCD's.....to play in the DVD player.

I had assumed, that the video capture boards did have TV-outs....

So, I will have to get separate cards...for capture, and for TV put
playing?  If so, still asking BEST cards to get (reasonable prices in
the few hundered $$ range...hopefully) that will work best with the
Linux drivers that are out there.  To record tv signal...and to play
out to TV.

TIA, and please keep the suggestions and comments coming...

Kelly



<snip>

> No, this card is for watching TV on your Windows machine -- thus the
> name "WinTV".  That's why they build it, it's what they're good at, and
> you shouldn't be surprised when they do little more than this with
> evolutionary products like the WinTV PVR and the WinTV HD.

<snip>

> Hmmmm...a device that runs Linux, records live TV, and can pause,
> resume, and play back in real time.  Sounds just like a TiVo to me.

 
 
 

Need Linux video card infor for PVR/With TV-out....

Post by Paul Hale » Sat, 09 Feb 2002 09:23:10


Another option:

The Iomega Buz - I use one, and under Linux it's great.
Record, Playback, whatever. It works fine.

regards,

Paul


> Hi All,

> I've been reading and getting e*d about trying to put together a
> PVR on a linux box.  I saw the the Haupague cards were the most widely
> used...then, before buying one...just happened to look at see that
> there was no TV-out on most of their cards....

> I'm assuming most people would want to watch their recorded tv shows
> ON a tv rather than a monitor....or am I wrong here?

> The only TV out on a Win-TV I've been able to find out about (their
> website has no details on the cards)...was their PVR card...and as
> I've been reading...isn't really supported. I can't tell if their
> Win-TV Theater card has video out..... I'm having problems finding
> other cards to use for this project.

> Most sites on this subject (linux pvr) only list chipsets...and I
> don't see that advertiesed much on the product's sites...or even on
> their boxes. I would like some brand names...

> So, need some help please.

> For a linux PVR project, what card works the best...and has a TV-Out
> so I can watch my recorded shows on my TV. Assuming this is possible?

> TIA,

> Kelly



 
 
 

Need Linux video card infor for PVR/With TV-out....

Post by Ole Hanse » Sat, 09 Feb 2002 15:11:16


Quote:> So, I will have to get separate cards...for capture, and for TV put
> playing?  If so, still asking BEST cards to get (reasonable prices in
> the few hundered $$ range...hopefully) that will work best with the
> Linux drivers that are out there.  To record tv signal...and to play
> out to TV.

They don't exist. It's a * to make you buy commercial boxes and
subscriptions.

Just kidding.

Turns out that there are many cards that are good at video *input* into a
computer, even under Linux, but TV *output* is a lot harder to find.
Essentially you have four choices in the sub-$1k range:

1) Video (VGA) card with TV out (any maybe also TV in) (Matrox, ATI, others)
2) MJPEG-based video capture board
3) DVD player board (Hollywood Plus, dxr3)
4) 1394 card with external DV->analog converter

Comments:
1) This would probably the best choice on Windows. None of the popular
"digital VCR" low-end video editing cards (ATI All-in-Wonder, Matrox Marvel)
have Linux support for the video features, though. (That may well be a
*.) Anyhow, AFAIK Matrox makes Linux drivers that support TV out on
their G400/G450 boards. They can be found on their Web site. However, in my
experience, at least the G400 does not properly support interlacing and
doesn't play 100% smooth. Also, if you capture with a TV board, you will
need to compress the video in software before playing it to TV through a
Matrox. You won't be able to play full-size uncompressed or
Huffyuv-compressed video in real time on all but the latest killer machines,
and the Matrox won't show it on the TV out anyway (under Windows). You
should be able to do software MJPEG compression in real time during capture,
but I'm not aware of a Linux MJPEG codec. The spec is open, though, so it
can be done.

2) See http://www.veryComputer.com/. The LML33 will do the job. Drivers are
probably beta quality. You need an external tuner (any VCR will do). Full
resolution, interlacing, and smooth playback should not be a problem.
However, MJPEG requires lots of disk space (depends on compression level,
typ. several 100MB/min). You may have problems with 2GB file size limits.
The upside is you will get a complete editing solution.

3) The Hollywood Plus/Dxr3 have Linux drivers. At least under Windows, they
play smoothly and support interlaced video with MPEG-2. Problem: You need to
compress to MPEG-2 before output. This can take 5-20x real time if done in
software. Unrealistic for your app.

4) There are several DV<->analog converter boxes out now, the best probably
being the one from Canopus. For Linux, you need is an application that can
read/write data to a Firewire interface. If you want to watch the video on
the computer, you also would need a Linux DV codec. DV requires less disk
space than MJPEG, but still a lot (220MB/min). Again, you'd need an external
tuner.

Cheers,
Ole

 
 
 

Need Linux video card infor for PVR/With TV-out....

Post by Kell » Sun, 10 Feb 2002 06:00:23


Thanks for the reply Ole!!

I'm wondering...are any of these mentioned capable of say, mpeg2
compression from the feed to the disk??  Thought I had heard that the
ATI all in wonder was capable of this with  a fast computer...I've got
either a P3 600Mhz machine to dedicate to this project...and may can
work also with a P4 1.8 GHz machine....

Thank you for the info...I will look into possibly going with 2 cards
then...one for capture...one with a TV out....

Please keep the comments and suggestions coming!!

Kelly


<snip>

Quote:> Turns out that there are many cards that are good at video *input* into a
> computer, even under Linux, but TV *output* is a lot harder to find.
> Essentially you have four choices in the sub-$1k range:

> 1) Video (VGA) card with TV out (any maybe also TV in) (Matrox, ATI, others)
> 2) MJPEG-based video capture board
> 3) DVD player board (Hollywood Plus, dxr3)
> 4) 1394 card with external DV->analog converter

><snip>

 
 
 

Need Linux video card infor for PVR/With TV-out....

Post by Kell » Sun, 10 Feb 2002 06:02:13


Thanks for the reply Paul!!

What drivers are you using to run this card under Linux?  From Iomega
native driver or a Linux driver?  If the latter....what are you using
please?

TIA,

kelly



> Another option:

> The Iomega Buz - I use one, and under Linux it's great.
> Record, Playback, whatever. It works fine.

> regards,

 
 
 

Need Linux video card infor for PVR/With TV-out....

Post by Paul Hale » Sun, 10 Feb 2002 06:55:48


There are several native Linux drivers to choose from, and they work very
well.

As the Buz really doesn't work well under Windows (bad drivers) you can
probably get one
very cheaply.

The TV out is good quality as well. It will capture at 3  resolutions, and
as it does
all the compression/decompression on the card you don't need a powerful CPU.

later,

Paul


> Thanks for the reply Paul!!

> What drivers are you using to run this card under Linux?  From Iomega
> native driver or a Linux driver?  If the latter....what are you using
> please?

> TIA,

> kelly





Quote:> > Another option:

> > The Iomega Buz - I use one, and under Linux it's great.
> > Record, Playback, whatever. It works fine.

> > regards,

 
 
 

Need Linux video card infor for PVR/With TV-out....

Post by Paul Hale » Sun, 10 Feb 2002 14:00:32



Quote:> > So, I will have to get separate cards...for capture, and for TV put
> > playing?  If so, still asking BEST cards to get (reasonable prices in
> > the few hundered $$ range...hopefully) that will work best with the
> > Linux drivers that are out there.  To record tv signal...and to play
> > out to TV.

> They don't exist. It's a * to make you buy commercial boxes and
> subscriptions.

> Just kidding.

> Turns out that there are many cards that are good at video *input* into a
> computer, even under Linux, but TV *output* is a lot harder to find.
> Essentially you have four choices in the sub-$1k range:

> 1) Video (VGA) card with TV out (any maybe also TV in) (Matrox, ATI,
others)
> 2) MJPEG-based video capture board
> 3) DVD player board (Hollywood Plus, dxr3)
> 4) 1394 card with external DV->analog converter

> Comments:
> 1) This would probably the best choice on Windows. None of the popular
> "digital VCR" low-end video editing cards (ATI All-in-Wonder, Matrox
Marvel)
> have Linux support for the video features, though. (That may well be a
> *.) Anyhow, AFAIK Matrox makes Linux drivers that support TV out
on
> their G400/G450 boards. They can be found on their Web site. However, in
my
> experience, at least the G400 does not properly support interlacing and
> doesn't play 100% smooth. Also, if you capture with a TV board, you will
> need to compress the video in software before playing it to TV through a
> Matrox. You won't be able to play full-size uncompressed or
> Huffyuv-compressed video in real time on all but the latest killer
machines,
> and the Matrox won't show it on the TV out anyway (under Windows). You
> should be able to do software MJPEG compression in real time during
capture,
> but I'm not aware of a Linux MJPEG codec. The spec is open, though, so it
> can be done.

http://www.veryComputer.com/

Is the site for Video capture under ATI cards.

http://www.veryComputer.com/

Is the site for heavy-duty mjpeg software - most current Linux distributions
will play a mjpeg video
without any extra software.

Quote:> 2) See http://www.veryComputer.com/. The LML33 will do the job. Drivers
are
> probably beta quality. You need an external tuner (any VCR will do). Full
> resolution, interlacing, and smooth playback should not be a problem.
> However, MJPEG requires lots of disk space (depends on compression level,
> typ. several 100MB/min). You may have problems with 2GB file size limits.
> The upside is you will get a complete editing solution.

I have never had any problems with file size limits under Linux.

- Show quoted text -

Quote:

> 3) The Hollywood Plus/Dxr3 have Linux drivers. At least under Windows,
they
> play smoothly and support interlaced video with MPEG-2. Problem: You need
to
> compress to MPEG-2 before output. This can take 5-20x real time if done in
> software. Unrealistic for your app.

> 4) There are several DV<->analog converter boxes out now, the best
probably
> being the one from Canopus. For Linux, you need is an application that can
> read/write data to a Firewire interface. If you want to watch the video on
> the computer, you also would need a Linux DV codec. DV requires less disk
> space than MJPEG, but still a lot (220MB/min). Again, you'd need an
external
> tuner.

> Cheers,
> Ole

regards,

Paul

 
 
 

Need Linux video card infor for PVR/With TV-out....

Post by B. Joshua Rose » Sun, 10 Feb 2002 14:19:18


Iomega has killed the Buz product.

http://www.iomega.com/buz/products/pc.html


> There are several native Linux drivers to choose from, and they work
> very well.

> As the Buz really doesn't work well under Windows (bad drivers) you can
> probably get one
> very cheaply.

> The TV out is good quality as well. It will capture at 3  resolutions,
> and as it does
> all the compression/decompression on the card you don't need a powerful
> CPU.

> later,

> Paul



>> Thanks for the reply Paul!!

>> What drivers are you using to run this card under Linux?  From Iomega
>> native driver or a Linux driver?  If the latter....what are you using
>> please?

>> TIA,

>> kelly




>> > Another option:

>> > The Iomega Buz - I use one, and under Linux it's great. Record,
>> > Playback, whatever. It works fine.

>> > regards,

 
 
 

Need Linux video card infor for PVR/With TV-out....

Post by Alan Jon » Tue, 12 Feb 2002 08:35:23


On Sat, 9 Feb 2002 08:55:48 +1100, "Paul Hales"


>There are several native Linux drivers to choose from, and they work very
>well.

>As the Buz really doesn't work well under Windows (bad drivers) you can
>probably get one
>very cheaply.

>The TV out is good quality as well. It will capture at 3  resolutions, and
>as it does
>all the compression/decompression on the card you don't need a powerful CPU.

>later,

>Paul

Thanks Paul.  I was not aware of the Iomega Buz.  What Linux
drivers/apps work with it?  Where can I find more info?

 I want to put together a vidieo system, TV tuner, capture, DVD ,SVDC,
etc., but not really try to aproximate the TiVo.  I have a BP6 with

do as much as possible in hardware.  I have a shortage of PCI slots
and resources, so I was looking at expensive multifunction video
cards.

The  Iomega Buz iis an ISA card that includes a SCSI host adapter.
This would enable me to remove my existing SCSI card, and not use up
any addjitional resources.  (I still need a new video card.)  I
multiboot with W98SE, W2k, and Mandrake.  Hopefully, drivers are
available to at least use the SCSI host in all OSs.  I could live with
doing the fancy stuff in Linux.

The Iomega Buz PC version is no longer being distributed, but maybe it
is still available directly from Iomega?   The G3 Mac version is still
available.   It only mentins capture in QT Movie format, So I'm not
sure this will do what I want it to do.

As for aproximating a TiVo... IT seems like a good value all on its
own.  What are the major components inside a TiVo unit?   Could they
be scavenged and incorporated into a PC?   If I wanted that sort of
capability, I would be inclined to try interfacing a complete TiVo
unit to a PC.  Just be able to control the ViVo, as a seperate
subsystem, from the PC.

Alan Jones

 
 
 

Need Linux video card infor for PVR/With TV-out....

Post by Warren Youn » Wed, 13 Feb 2002 08:03:08



> I have never had any problems with file size limits under Linux.

Then you must be using a 2.4.x kernel.  In 2.2 kernels, there was a 2GB
limit on x86 hardware.  Also, programs built on most 2.2-based Linuxes
will have a 2GB limit even on 2.4 systems, and many programs have 4GB
limits where the programmer didn't anticipate the program running on
systems with 64-bit file offsets.

Short version: file size problems still exist on Linux, though they are
slowly going away.
--
= MPEG articles: http://tangentsoft.net/video/mpeg/

 
 
 

Need Linux video card infor for PVR/With TV-out....

Post by Warren Youn » Wed, 13 Feb 2002 08:05:51



> I'm wondering...are any of these mentioned capable of say, mpeg2
> compression from the feed to the disk??  Thought I had heard that the
> ATI all in wonder was capable of this with  a fast computer...I've got
> either a P3 600Mhz machine to dedicate to this project...and may can
> work also with a P4 1.8 GHz machine....

Visit my reviews site via the link below for info on the ATI AIW boards'
MPEG encoding performance.

Just so no one's confused, this ability doesn't work under Linux.  The
encoding is done in software, and currently ATI only offers it for
Windows.
--
= MPEG articles: http://tangentsoft.net/video/mpeg/

 
 
 

Need Linux video card infor for PVR/With TV-out....

Post by Ole Hanse » Wed, 13 Feb 2002 12:25:29


Quote:> Short version: file size problems still exist on Linux, though they are
> slowly going away.

Agreed. Confirmed by personal experience.

Ole

 
 
 

Need Linux video card infor for PVR/With TV-out....

Post by Kell » Sun, 03 Mar 2002 05:59:54


Well, I don't like the idea of 'having' to buy either a monthly or
lifetime subscription to their 'scheduling' service...to have to have
it connect to them to download schedules...and possibly
upload my watching information.  Just not worth it to me...I'd like to
build one of these on my own...figured I'd could try to grab
programming info from the TV Guide website...use cron jobs to change
channels and record my shows.  I'll have a wireless network card in
it, so, it can easily be controlled by one of my other computers...and
I'll probably also use it for an mp3 jukebox when its not doing tv
stuff...

Was also thinking I can more easily skip commercials on my home grown
version..and burn my shows onto VCD's....till recordable DVD becomes
more affordable...and  one of the formats becomes the front runner...

I'd buy a Tivo or Replay...but, not with the subscription thing...and
they're too tied to the entertainment industry to allow for 'features'
I like....

Kelly


> On Sat, 9 Feb 2002 08:55:48 +1100, "Paul Hales"
><snip>
> As for aproximating a TiVo... IT seems like a good value all on its
> own.  What are the major components inside a TiVo unit?   C<snip>

> Alan Jones

 
 
 

1. Programming video card (ATI card w/ s-video & tv-out) Need direction to correct info

Hi,
    I hope some people read this and can help me out.

I have a ATI Rage Pro pci video card that has s-video and tv-out. I want
to be able to use the s-video and tv-out on the card. Now, is this down
by the app(like what I find on Video4Linux) or is it in Xfree86?

I want to know if there has been a driver developed which accesses the
s-video and tv-out on the ATI card. If so, a pointer to the source would
be great.

If not, then I would like to know how would I go about to use the
s-video and tv-out. I just need some clarification on if the actual app
would take care of loading up the s-video interface and tv-out interface
or if it is the actual video card driver(Xfree86?).

Thanks for any help in advanced and if it isn't too much trouble, can
you also cc: you rhelp to my e-mail?

Gracias!

K.

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