Monitors - 13W3 to HDB15

Monitors - 13W3 to HDB15

Post by Nick » Sat, 01 Jun 2002 10:47:47



I'm an SGI newbie and I recentally acquired an Indy R5000.  I picked up a
13w3 male to HDB15 female adapter to connect an SVGA monitor to the funky
video card in there.  Of course, it does not work!  I'm using a Compaq V70
17" monitor, which should be able to handle the resolution.  I get nothing,
not even a distorted image.  The light stays amber...

Am I missing something?

Please help...thanks.

 
 
 

Monitors - 13W3 to HDB15

Post by b » Sat, 01 Jun 2002 16:15:03


hello,
I get nothing,

Quote:> not even a distorted image.  The light stays amber...

the adapter makes the indy boot with a certain resolution. try booting
the indy and THEN connecting the adapter, then you will know whether it
is a resolution problem. if not then it is likely that your monitor cant
handle the sync that the indy is putting out.

b.

 
 
 

Monitors - 13W3 to HDB15

Post by Matthijs Mourit » Sat, 01 Jun 2002 18:23:03


On Fri, 31 May 2002 01:47:47 GMT


> I'm an SGI newbie and I recentally acquired an Indy R5000.  I picked up a
> 13w3 male to HDB15 female adapter to connect an SVGA monitor to the funky
> video card in there.  Of course, it does not work!  I'm using a Compaq V70
> 17" monitor, which should be able to handle the resolution.  I get nothing,
> not even a distorted image.  The light stays amber...

Same answer as the nest post ;-)  (maybe in time, we'll find the universal answer to all SGI questions? :-)

http://www.reputable.com/indytech.html#Monitors has some good info about what sort of monitor should work on an Indy.

Hope this helps,

MvG,

Matthijs

---

Ni!

 
 
 

Monitors - 13W3 to HDB15

Post by Michael de la Fuen » Sat, 01 Jun 2002 22:12:31



> I'm an SGI newbie and I recentally acquired an Indy R5000.  I picked up a
> 13w3 male to HDB15 female adapter to connect an SVGA monitor to the funky
> video card in there.  Of course, it does not work!  I'm using a Compaq V70
> 17" monitor, which should be able to handle the resolution.  I get nothing,
> not even a distorted image.  The light stays amber...

> Am I missing something?

> Please help...thanks.

Make sure the monitor supports sync on green....when I was getting
into the SGI game a few months back that is what my friend told me, it
has something to do with the compatibility of the video output....I
had an Octane with the 13W3 connection and I don't think it would be
any different from an Indy 13W3 connection......
 
 
 

Monitors - 13W3 to HDB15

Post by Car » Sun, 02 Jun 2002 03:36:06


My experience was very similar. Apple 21" color monitor with 13W3
connection, but no go. Tried every combination of adapter I could find
-- many with DIP switches that would hopefully move sync signals
around -- but never got it to work. Ended up buying an SGI 17" on
eBay.

   Carl



> > I'm an SGI newbie and I recentally acquired an Indy R5000.  I picked up a
> > 13w3 male to HDB15 female adapter to connect an SVGA monitor to the funky
> > video card in there.  Of course, it does not work!  I'm using a Compaq V70
> > 17" monitor, which should be able to handle the resolution.  I get nothing,
> > not even a distorted image.  The light stays amber...

> > Am I missing something?

> > Please help...thanks.

> Make sure the monitor supports sync on green....when I was getting
> into the SGI game a few months back that is what my friend told me, it
> has something to do with the compatibility of the video output....I
> had an Octane with the 13W3 connection and I don't think it would be
> any different from an Indy 13W3 connection......

 
 
 

Monitors - 13W3 to HDB15

Post by Nick » Sun, 02 Jun 2002 07:30:21


Thanks for all your responses.  Does anyone have a list of monitors that
support the "sync on green" capability that SGI requires?

Thanks.


> My experience was very similar. Apple 21" color monitor with 13W3
> connection, but no go. Tried every combination of adapter I could find
> -- many with DIP switches that would hopefully move sync signals
> around -- but never got it to work. Ended up buying an SGI 17" on
> eBay.

>    Carl





Quote:> > > I'm an SGI newbie and I recentally acquired an Indy R5000.  I picked
up a
> > > 13w3 male to HDB15 female adapter to connect an SVGA monitor to the
funky
> > > video card in there.  Of course, it does not work!  I'm using a Compaq
V70
> > > 17" monitor, which should be able to handle the resolution.  I get
nothing,
> > > not even a distorted image.  The light stays amber...

> > > Am I missing something?

> > > Please help...thanks.

> > Make sure the monitor supports sync on green....when I was getting
> > into the SGI game a few months back that is what my friend told me, it
> > has something to do with the compatibility of the video output....I
> > had an Octane with the 13W3 connection and I don't think it would be
> > any different from an Indy 13W3 connection......

 
 
 

Monitors - 13W3 to HDB15

Post by Michael de la Fuen » Sun, 02 Jun 2002 10:49:17



> Thanks for all your responses.  Does anyone have a list of monitors that
> support the "sync on green" capability that SGI requires?

> Thanks.

The ones that I have seen are NEC and Sony,  Eizo also. I would think
any modern monitor will do, like any model/brand released in the last
2 years would support sync on green....they should say in the product
description...Viewsonic is another one I have seen in the description
where it says it supports sync on green....
 
 
 

Monitors - 13W3 to HDB15

Post by Walther Mathie » Sun, 02 Jun 2002 16:05:31



> Thanks for all your responses.  Does anyone have a list of monitors that
> support the "sync on green" capability that SGI requires?

> Thanks.

You CAN connect a VGA monitor to 13W3 output of SGI machines, and
if you happen to get the *right* adaptor it will work fine...
Look at UltraSpec Cables  website and be careful *not* to choose the
SGI-VGA adaptor, not the SUN-VGA type.

Btw, it is much mor difficult the other way round (SGI 13W3 monitor on PC).
But there are solutions too, both with adaptor or internal modification.
(I wonder if anybody wanted to know that here :-()

Walther.

 
 
 

Monitors - 13W3 to HDB15

Post by Arthur Corli » Sun, 02 Jun 2002 17:39:11



>You CAN connect a VGA monitor to 13W3 output of SGI machines, and
>if you happen to get the *right* adaptor it will work fine...
>Look at UltraSpec Cables  website and be careful *not* to choose the
>SGI-VGA adaptor, not the SUN-VGA type.

>Btw, it is much mor difficult the other way round (SGI 13W3 monitor on PC).
>But there are solutions too, both with adaptor or internal modification.
>(I wonder if anybody wanted to know that here :-()

That's not entirely accurate.  *If* you have the right monitor, then an
adapter will work for you.  VGA does not imply sync-on-green, and 90% of PC
monitors are not capable of using a sync-on-green signal.  The only different
between the Sun and SGI to VGA adapters (as I recall) is that some of the id
pins are floating on one, while the other is clamped to ground.

Do some searches on the usenet archives, all the technical details have been
discussed ad infinitum. . .

--

        --Arthur Corliss
          Bolverk's Lair -- http://arthur.corlissfamily.org/
          Digital Mages -- http://www.digitalmages.com/
          "Live Free or Die, the Only Way to Live" -- NH State Motto

 
 
 

Monitors - 13W3 to HDB15

Post by Arthur Corli » Sun, 02 Jun 2002 17:41:16




Quote:

>The ones that I have seen are NEC and Sony,  Eizo also. I would think
>any modern monitor will do, like any model/brand released in the last
>2 years would support sync on green....they should say in the product
>description...Viewsonic is another one I have seen in the description
>where it says it supports sync on green....

Most of the ViewSonics do not support sync-on-green, but the A90 is one that
does.  Beware of most vendor sites, too, though.  Sylvania is one, if I recall
correctly, that claimed sync-on-green on the spec sheets on the web, but don't
support it.  I had to hammer the tech support a few years back to get them to
admit that the on-line documentation was dead wrong.

--

        --Arthur Corliss
          Bolverk's Lair -- http://arthur.corlissfamily.org/
          Digital Mages -- http://www.digitalmages.com/
          "Live Free or Die, the Only Way to Live" -- NH State Motto

 
 
 

Monitors - 13W3 to HDB15

Post by John-Paul Stewar » Sun, 02 Jun 2002 23:04:25




> > Thanks for all your responses.  Does anyone have a list of monitors that
> > support the "sync on green" capability that SGI requires?

> > Thanks.

> The ones that I have seen are NEC and Sony,  Eizo also. I would think
> any modern monitor will do, like any model/brand released in the last
> 2 years would support sync on green....they should say in the product
> description...Viewsonic is another one I have seen in the description
> where it says it supports sync on green....

A lot of the lower-end monitors do not mention sync on green
in their documentation.  For example, the cheapest Samsung
and LG Electronics monitors make no mention of sync on green
in the product info.  The slightly more expensive models
from the same manufacturers' "Professional" lines, however,
do specifically say they support sync on green.

I'd revise Michael's comment to this:  I would think any
modern, high-end monitor will do.

 
 
 

Monitors - 13W3 to HDB15

Post by Walther Mathie » Mon, 03 Jun 2002 16:15:04




> >You CAN connect a VGA monitor to 13W3 output of SGI machines, and
> >if you happen to get the *right* adaptor it will work fine...
> >Look at UltraSpec Cables  website and be careful *not* to choose the
> >SGI-VGA adaptor, not the SUN-VGA type.

> >Btw, it is much mor difficult the other way round (SGI 13W3 monitor on PC).
> >But there are solutions too, both with adaptor or internal modification.
> >(I wonder if anybody wanted to know that here :-()

> That's not entirely accurate.  *If* you have the right monitor, then an
> adapter will work for you.  VGA does not imply sync-on-green, and 90% of PC
> monitors are not capable of using a sync-on-green signal.  The only different
> between the Sun and SGI to VGA adapters (as I recall) is that some of the id
> pins are floating on one, while the other is clamped to ground.

> Do some searches on the usenet archives, all the technical details have been
> discussed ad infinitum. . .

> --

>         --Arthur Corliss
>           Bolverk's Lair -- http://arthur.corlissfamily.org/
>           Digital Mages -- http://www.digitalmages.com/
>           "Live Free or Die, the Only Way to Live" -- NH State Motto

Hi Arthur,

thanks for your advice... I did - theres a lot of confusion!
Youre right about sync-on-green: an adaptor must process signals from/to it.
This requires active electronics (some signal processing).
SGI -> VGA: extract and separate sync signals from green video signal.
VGA - SGI: combine hsync & vsync and feed it into green.

Or you connect hsync & vsync to pin 1 & 4 of the CXA1616 in the GDM20D11.

Regards
Walther

 
 
 

Monitors - 13W3 to HDB15

Post by Michael Jooste » Thu, 06 Jun 2002 11:00:18



> thanks for your advice... I did - theres a lot of confusion!
> Youre right about sync-on-green: an adaptor must process signals from/to it.
> This requires active electronics (some signal processing).
> SGI -> VGA: extract and separate sync signals from green video signal.
> VGA - SGI: combine hsync & vsync and feed it into green.

Apparently not infinite enough.

The RIGHT adapter would use the 13W3 pins 4 and 5 for horiz. and
vertical sync on all Indigos and Indys to connect to the proper VGA
pins.

A Sun adapter will likely not work, as it connects vertical out with
horizontal monitor input. (pin 5/13W3 to ... )

So, there is actually no need for a sync-on-green extractor/separator.

Does this myth never die....

Pin-Layout of a 13W3 (female end): () denotes mini-coax

()  1 2 3 4 5  () ()
   6 7 8 9 10

An old rev. of the Indy Workstation Owner's Guide (007-9804-0020) from
1/94 does not have the pinouts of the 13W3 in Appendix A.
BUT... the next revs., (007-9804-0040), 12/94 and 3/95 DO have all the
information included:

1     MONITOR TYPE(3) (active low)
2     MONITOR TYPE(0) (active low)
3     COMPOSITE SYNC (active low)
4     HORIZONTAL SYNC (active low)
5     VERTICAL SYNC (active low)
6     MONITOR TYPE(1) (active low)
7     MONITOR TYPE(2) (active low)
8     GROUND
9     GROUND
10    GROUND

-ID pins on a 13W3 connector are (MSBit first) pins 7, 6, 2. Hi-end
machines
want pin 1 Grounded, Indigo2 and Indy want it NC. Gnd means zero, NC
means
1

For Indy, Indigo2:

MonID   monitor guessed
110     Single Scan 1024x768 60Hz 15"
101     Dual Scan 1280x1024&1024x768 60Hz 16"
100     Idem 19"
011     MultiScan 1280x1024&1024x768 21"
010     1280x1024, 76Hz, 16" (82 kHz line freq.)
001     DM-20 MultiScan 1280x1024 76Hz 19" or Single Scan Sony 1280x1024
72Hz
000     1280x1024 60Hz only

111 yields no monitor attached. Default to lowest res / lowest vertical
refresh (if nvram variable ``monitor'' not set to ``H'')

for hi-End

MonID
111     No monitor
110     Single Scan 1024x768 60Hz 15"
010     MultiScan 16"
001     MultiScan 19"

-

Fuerstenallee 11, 33094 Paderborn, Germany
Phone: +49 5251 606127, Fax: +49 5251 606065
C-LAB is a cooperation of University Paderborn & SIEMENS

 
 
 

Monitors - 13W3 to HDB15

Post by Walther Mathie » Thu, 06 Jun 2002 16:02:48




> > thanks for your advice... I did - theres a lot of confusion!
> > Youre right about sync-on-green: an adaptor must process signals from/to it.
> > This requires active electronics (some signal processing).
> > SGI -> VGA: extract and separate sync signals from green video signal.
> > VGA - SGI: combine hsync & vsync and feed it into green.

> Apparently not infinite enough.

> The RIGHT adapter would use the 13W3 pins 4 and 5 for horiz. and
> vertical sync on all Indigos and Indys to connect to the proper VGA
> pins.

> A Sun adapter will likely not work, as it connects vertical out with
> horizontal monitor input. (pin 5/13W3 to ... )

> So, there is actually no need for a sync-on-green extractor/separator.

> Does this myth never die....

> Pin-Layout of a 13W3 (female end): () denotes mini-coax

> ()  1 2 3 4 5  () ()
>    6 7 8 9 10

> An old rev. of the Indy Workstation Owner's Guide (007-9804-0020) from
> 1/94 does not have the pinouts of the 13W3 in Appendix A.
> BUT... the next revs., (007-9804-0040), 12/94 and 3/95 DO have all the
> information included:

> 1     MONITOR TYPE(3) (active low)
> 2     MONITOR TYPE(0) (active low)
> 3     COMPOSITE SYNC (active low)
> 4     HORIZONTAL SYNC (active low)
> 5     VERTICAL SYNC (active low)
> 6     MONITOR TYPE(1) (active low)
> 7     MONITOR TYPE(2) (active low)
> 8     GROUND
> 9     GROUND
> 10    GROUND

> -ID pins on a 13W3 connector are (MSBit first) pins 7, 6, 2. Hi-end
> machines
> want pin 1 Grounded, Indigo2 and Indy want it NC. Gnd means zero, NC
> means
> 1

> For Indy, Indigo2:

> MonID   monitor guessed
> 110     Single Scan 1024x768 60Hz 15"
> 101     Dual Scan 1280x1024&1024x768 60Hz 16"
> 100     Idem 19"
> 011     MultiScan 1280x1024&1024x768 21"
> 010     1280x1024, 76Hz, 16" (82 kHz line freq.)
> 001     DM-20 MultiScan 1280x1024 76Hz 19" or Single Scan Sony 1280x1024
> 72Hz
> 000     1280x1024 60Hz only

> 111 yields no monitor attached. Default to lowest res / lowest vertical
> refresh (if nvram variable ``monitor'' not set to ``H'')

> for hi-End

> MonID
> 111     No monitor
> 110     Single Scan 1024x768 60Hz 15"
> 010     MultiScan 16"
> 001     MultiScan 19"

> -

> Fuerstenallee 11, 33094 Paderborn, Germany
> Phone: +49 5251 606127, Fax: +49 5251 606065
> C-LAB is a cooperation of University Paderborn & SIEMENS

Hi,

and not to confuse pinouts of Indy/Indigo/Indigo2 and the ones of a monitor. Were
now talking about an SGI monitor interfaced to a standard PC VGA output, right?
And *NOT* about making a PC monitor work on SGI machines! Then SGI workstation
display output pinouts are not of much relevance at all...

Have you tried to feed hsync/vsync out of a PC VGA into pins 4+5 of a 13W3 type
SGI/Sony monitor? If you did so or ever happened to open a GDM20D11 (the most
common of them SGI monitors) you will most likely find that none of all those ID
pins are connected at all. There ist only plain R, SoG, B (the koax pins)
connected.

Dont know about Indy, but these monitors work fine on my Indigo and Indigo2s.
Btw, if you want to feed them a VGA signal directly you wont succeed with some
simple tricks, like - never dying myth - breaking some ID pins. You are only about
to disconnect lines not in existence or already disconnected.

One workaround is to modify the entry stage near the Sony sync processor in order
to make it accept separate sync (it is originally suited for that). This
modification is not too tricky but includes disruption of certail lines on the
entry stage PCB inside the monitor, adding some shielded 75 Ohm wiring and a VGA
connector - and some metalwork.

Another - if you do not want to open the monitor - is to process the signal
outside the monitor, i. e. using some circuitry within an external adaptor (sync
processor) to combine PC hsync/vsync into the appropriate sync-on-green.

I have done both several times and kept the recipients of both adaptors and
modified input circuitry content.

Regards
Walther.

 
 
 

Monitors - 13W3 to HDB15

Post by Michael Jooste » Fri, 07 Jun 2002 05:46:07





> Hi,

> and not to confuse pinouts of Indy/Indigo/Indigo2 and the ones of a monitor. Were
> now talking about an SGI monitor interfaced to a standard PC VGA output, right?
> And *NOT* about making a PC monitor work on SGI machines! Then SGI workstation
> display output pinouts are not of much relevance at all...

Well, a few postings earlier we were at the SGI to PC-VGA monitor issue,
so it looks I lost the track...
Of course, you are right that the opposite direction (SGI monitor to
something else, not sync-on-green producing) needs some creative
soldering work.

Quote:

> Have you tried to feed hsync/vsync out of a PC VGA into pins 4+5 of a 13W3 type
> SGI/Sony monitor? If you did so or ever happened to open a GDM20D11 (the most
> common of them SGI monitors) you will most likely find that none of all those ID
> pins are connected at all. There ist only plain R, SoG, B (the koax pins)
> connected.

Yes, I know. The GDM 17E11 actually has a small empty 3-pin connector on
the CRT socket PCB that has H/V sync signals (perhaps even composite, if
ground isn't one of those pins). You just have to connect them to the
empty pins on the 13W3 to make it into a Sun monitor or even a PC one -
but, of course, it's not multisync and doesn't display the text mode.

Quote:> One workaround is to modify the entry stage near the Sony sync processor in order
> to make it accept separate sync (it is originally suited for that). This
> modification is not too tricky but includes disruption of certail lines on the
> entry stage PCB inside the monitor, adding some shielded 75 Ohm wiring and a VGA
> connector - and some metalwork.

Thanks for the hints!

Quote:> Another - if you do not want to open the monitor - is to process the signal
> outside the monitor, i. e. using some circuitry within an external adaptor (sync
> processor) to combine PC hsync/vsync into the appropriate sync-on-green.

Ah yes, one of the many circuits which used a FET or perhaps even a 4066
(CMOS switch) and some TTL logic to combine H and V.
There I had the feeling that it might be difficult to preserve the
signal quality for green.

Another trick I once used with Sun video cards based on the Bt458
RAMDAC  was to let the RAMDAC do the SoG for me: There is one pin, SYNC,
which is connected to GND on the typical older CG3/GX/TGX cards. You
just have to bend it up a little and connect it with the composite sync
signal from the 13W3 connector, and hey, the SGI monitor syncs!

--

Fuerstenallee 11, 33094 Paderborn, Germany
Phone: +49 5251 606127, Fax: +49 5251 606065
C-LAB is a cooperation of University Paderborn & SIEMENS

 
 
 

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I recently purchased a SGI GDM-17E21 monitor, which unfortunately did not
come with a HDB15 to HDB15 cable similar to that bundled with O2 systems.

As such, I traveled to my local computer retail chain in search of the
"best" HDB15 to HDB15 monitor cable they had. After repeated assurances
that the Belkin "Gold-Plated" cable was as capable as the snake-like cable
shipped with O2, systems I bought it.

Much to my dismay, with the new cable, the formerly rock-steady and razor
sharp image on the GDM-17E21 turned to a blurry, wavy, ghost-filled one.

Does anyone know of a good source where I could get such a cable? SGI
perhaps? It is about 1/4" thick, has molded connectors on each end, and
has a torus magnet molded onto each end. The part number on the sheath of
my cable here at work says "018-0530-001 REV E VIST 9707".

Regards,

Grant
--
 Grant M. Erickson                           University of Minnesota  


  o http://www.tc.umn.edu/nlhome/g496/eric0139/

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