Replacing RPM-placed files w/non-RPM files

Replacing RPM-placed files w/non-RPM files

Post by Quentin Dergg » Wed, 19 Sep 2001 02:04:31



Since I've been using RPM I've tried to upgrade certain packages when
the RPM counterpart is not yet available. A good example is the kernel
source. The latest source is 2.4.9 I think, but the newest RPM isn't.
How should I place the new source code? There are 3 kernel related
packages installed, and they have a lot of dependancies. RPM has
placed a link from /usr/src/linux to the directory of the RPM-placed
source. What happens if I change that? Certain packages depend on the
kernel headers, but the ones from the RPM aren't he right ones.
    I'm thinking of this issue as more general than the kernel
packages. XFree86 has installed the latest of itself, too, which is
newer than the RPM installed.
 
 
 

Replacing RPM-placed files w/non-RPM files

Post by Michael Lee Yoh » Wed, 19 Sep 2001 03:19:40


In general, using package management saves you headaches in the long run

- letting you keep track of packages that may still be important, though

you don't use them often.

I use package management for everything except the kernel if at all
possible.  There very little hassle when upgrading packages and all the
dependencies are checked before my configuration gets blown to hades and
back.

The kernel, however, is a different story - especially when it comes
with dealing with distributions.  Distribution companies, like Red Hat,
do a lot of hammering on the kernel to ensure it will work with their
respective distribution - and on a large variety of target systems.  The
kernel version of the kernel with a distribution is always going to lag
behind the actual "latest and greatest" because it has to undergo many
tests to ensure it's still stable.

Be mindful - you can always check with rpmfind.net to see if there is an
RPM for a recently released program.  It has quite a few of the same RPM
(packaged by various contributors).  Usually, you will find the latest
and greatest just a couple days after the associated tarball has been
released.

--


Software Developer, Engineering Services
Red Hat, Inc.

QUIPd 0.12:
-> And now the sequence of events in no particular order.
-> - Dan Rather

 
 
 

Replacing RPM-placed files w/non-RPM files

Post by Swif » Wed, 19 Sep 2001 05:43:43



Quote:>  Since I've been using RPM I've tried to upgrade certain packages when
>  the RPM counterpart is not yet available. A good example is the kernel
>  source. The latest source is 2.4.9 I think, but the newest RPM isn't.
>  How should I place the new source code?

Well, you actually picked the wrong example. When using ac-patches, you can
run
        make rpm
which will make a rpm-file.

For other examples, you can
- or make your own rpm-package (which is not so hard - http://www.rpm.org)
- or use a tool that checks what files are placed where, and updates the
  rpm-database

--
  SwifT
  |- LUG : http://www.lugwv.be
  |- PGP Key-# : 0xCDBA2FDB
  `- "Happy Linux-user :)"

 
 
 

Replacing RPM-placed files w/non-RPM files

Post by Quentin Dergg » Wed, 19 Sep 2001 07:16:46



Quote:> I use package management for everything except the kernel if at all
> possible.  There very little hassle when upgrading packages and all the
> dependencies are checked before my configuration gets blown to hades and
> back.

    Unfortunately it doesn't seem possible. There are a lot of
packages dependant on these packages. How do I tell them that I took
their kernel files away?

Quote:> The kernel, however, is a different story - especially when it comes
> with dealing with distributions.  Distribution companies, like Red Hat,
> do a lot of hammering on the kernel to ensure it will work with their
> respective distribution - and on a large variety of target systems.  The
> kernel version of the kernel with a distribution is always going to lag
> behind the actual "latest and greatest" because it has to undergo many
> tests to ensure it's still stable.

    Hmm... sounds like what you are implicitly telling me is that I
shouldn't bother with a newer kernel because it might not work as well
with my distribution. This further implies that the newer
features/stability of a kernel different in the 3rd decimal place is
not typically worthwhile.

Quote:> Be mindful - you can always check with rpmfind.net to see if there is an
> RPM for a recently released program.  It has quite a few of the same RPM
> (packaged by various contributors).  Usually, you will find the latest
> and greatest just a couple days after the associated tarball has been
> released.

    Hey, thanks. That seems useful.

    But I still don't know what I should be generally doing when I
want to put a newer version that isn't an RPM. One guy says I should
make my own RPM. I suppose I could try that without any snags, but the
XFree86 install script would get in the way. Do you just put all your
faith in rpmfind.net at times like this?

 
 
 

Replacing RPM-placed files w/non-RPM files

Post by William D. Tallma » Wed, 19 Sep 2001 10:12:31





>>  Since I've been using RPM I've tried to upgrade certain packages when
>>  the RPM counterpart is not yet available. A good example is the kernel
>>  source. The latest source is 2.4.9 I think, but the newest RPM isn't.
>>  How should I place the new source code?

> Well, you actually picked the wrong example. When using ac-patches, you
> can run
> make rpm
> which will make a rpm-file.

> For other examples, you can
> - or make your own rpm-package (which is not so hard - http://www.rpm.org)
> - or use a tool that checks what files are placed where, and updates the
>   rpm-database

I've often found that tarballs will contain a .spec file.  Those that do
can be built as rpms very easily.  Of course, you will have to have
unpacked it first to find out, unless you use MC or the like.

Stick the tarball in /usr/src/RPM/SOURCES, the .spec file in
/usr/srcRPM/SPECS, and from that directory build the binary yourself.  
That's 'rpm -bb {packagename).spec', and it will compile an rpm binary and
put it where a package manager will see it and install it.

Bill Tallman
--
Registered Linux User #221586
Mandrake 8.0 Eye Candy Toy
My *other* OS is also Linux!

 
 
 

Replacing RPM-placed files w/non-RPM files

Post by Michael Lee Yoh » Wed, 19 Sep 2001 23:54:17


Quote:>>I use package management for everything except the kernel if at all
>>possible.  There very little hassle when upgrading packages and all the
>>dependencies are checked before my configuration gets blown to hades and
>>back.

>     Unfortunately it doesn't seem possible. There are a lot of
> packages dependant on these packages. How do I tell them that I took
> their kernel files away?

I have not found very many packages which are dependent on the
kernel-<blah> package.  At the very most, perhaps a depency on
kernel-headers.src.rpm package.  If the package requires kernel headers
and that's the only failed dependency, a --force --nodeps might be in order.

Quote:>     Hmm... sounds like what you are implicitly telling me is that I
> shouldn't bother with a newer kernel because it might not work as well
> with my distribution. This further implies that the newer
> features/stability of a kernel different in the 3rd decimal place is
> not typically worthwhile.

This is not my implication at all.  There are two types of people out
there - regular joe's and mister smiths.  The regular Joe has time to
experiment with new technologies, does not mind the occasional mis-haps,
and likes to play around.  Mister Smith, however, is head of the IS
department and wants to make sure the software installed is of maximum
stability.

The LT releases (brand-spanking-new) are for the regulars joes.  People
which require a known-stable, feature-rich kernel, like myself, will be
more than satisfied with what comes with the distribution (and inclusive
updates).

Quote:>     But I still don't know what I should be generally doing when I
> want to put a newer version that isn't an RPM. One guy says I should
> make my own RPM. I suppose I could try that without any snags, but the
> XFree86 install script would get in the way. Do you just put all your
> faith in rpmfind.net at times like this?

I've been using rpmfind.net's "Polish(ed) Distribution" packages and
they have always worked for me.  I have never upgraded something as
complex as GCC n' friends, but I have used their X packages.  Mind you,
if something goes bad - you can always rpm -e the new package and
re-install the old one off your distribution's CD.  Configuration files
usually remain intact.

--


Software Developer, Engineering Services
Red Hat, Inc.

QUIPd 0.12:
-> In America, anybody can be president. That's one of the risks you
-> take.
-> - Adlai Stevenson (1900-1965)

 
 
 

Replacing RPM-placed files w/non-RPM files

Post by Swif » Thu, 20 Sep 2001 01:10:39


On Tue, 18 Sep 2001 09:54:17 -0500, Michael Lee Yohe


>  I have not found very many packages which are dependent on the
>  kernel-<blah> package.  At the very most, perhaps a depency on
>  kernel-headers.src.rpm package.  If the package requires kernel headers
>  and that's the only failed dependency, a --force --nodeps might be in order.

Actually, I would suggest only using --nodeps. --force is very agressive, as
it ignores other, possible important, errors.

        --force
              Same as using  --replacepkgs,  --replacefiles,  and
              --oldpackage.

Quote:>  I've been using rpmfind.net's "Polish(ed) Distribution" packages and
>  they have always worked for me.  I have never upgraded something as
>  complex as GCC n' friends, but I have used their X packages.  Mind you,
>  if something goes bad - you can always rpm -e the new package and
>  re-install the old one off your distribution's CD.  Configuration files
>  usually remain intact.

Or use --oldpackage

I've been using Mandrake (stable and Cooker), RedHat (stable and Rawhide),
PLD, Kondarai, FalseHope and other RPM-packager-rpm's all together without
much of a hassle...  

--
  SwifT
  |- LUG : http://www.lugwv.be
  |- PGP Key-# : 0xCDBA2FDB
  `- "Happy Linux-user :)"

 
 
 

Replacing RPM-placed files w/non-RPM files

Post by Ed Blackm » Thu, 20 Sep 2001 12:29:32



>I've often found that tarballs will contain a .spec file.  Those that do
>can be built as rpms very easily.  Of course, you will have to have
>unpacked it first to find out, unless you use MC or the like.

>Stick the tarball in /usr/src/RPM/SOURCES, the .spec file in
>/usr/srcRPM/SPECS, and from that directory build the binary yourself.  
>That's 'rpm -bb {packagename).spec', and it will compile an rpm binary and
>put it where a package manager will see it and install it.

Or just 'rpm -tb <tarfile>'.  The '-t' option is like '-b', but looks
inside the tarfile for the .spec.

Ed

 
 
 

Replacing RPM-placed files w/non-RPM files

Post by Michael Lee Yoh » Sat, 22 Sep 2001 07:18:58


Quote:> Actually, I would suggest only using --nodeps. --force is very agressive, as
> it ignores other, possible important, errors.

>    --force
>               Same as using  --replacepkgs,  --replacefiles,  and
>               --oldpackage.

This is very true.

--


Software Developer, Engineering Services
Red Hat, Inc.

QUIPd 0.12:
-> I don't see much reason to reject the patch other than to be the
-> mud around a stick.
-> - Larry Wall

 
 
 

1. RPM for Uwin - cannot open file //var/lib/rpm/nameindex.rpm

Im trying to use the port of RPM for UWin. Unfortunatelly Im having
some problems to get it to work
properly.
   I installed the new version of Uwin (3.1) sucessfully. I also
downloaded RPM 4.0.3 from Wipro site and
installed it. I did the instalation from the root directory (/) using:

$ tar xvf rpm-4.0.3.tar
rpm-4.0.3.tar volume 1 in tar format
usr
usr/bin
usr/bin/rpm.exe
usr/bin/rpm2cpio.exe
usr/local
usr/local/lib
usr/local/lib/rpm
usr/local/lib/rpm/rpmrc
usr/man
usr/man/man8
usr/man/man8/rpm.8
usr/man/man8/rpm2cpio.8
12 files, 1365 blocks

   After that I created the directory  /var/lib/rpm .
   To create the rpm database I execute rpm --initdb . At this point
I get an error:

   $ rpm --initdb
   cannot open file //var/lib/rpm/nameindex.rpm: No such file or
directory

   At /var/lib/rpm was created the following file:

   $ pwd
   /var/lib/rpm
   $ ls
   packages.rpm

  The same message I get when I execute it using Administrator or su
.

  Thanks for any help,

      Gustavo

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