Very Computer

I've been hearing about the Corel Netwinder, and the April 99 Linux
Journal review really made it sound great.  So I wanted to look at
models available, features, prices, etc.  I go to:

http://www.veryComputer.com/

there's just a link to a press release: "Corel Corporation and Hardware
Canada Computing Close Deal" (and some toll-free numbers to call).  You
follow that link and are not led to exactly a mine of info about the
Netwinder...

(OK, the company's been bought, blah, blah, blah.  Now what about the
damned machine itself?!)

Or am I missing something obvious?

Maybe just dumb and dumber,

Bob L.
--

http://www.veryComputer.com/~rm*/

Quote:

> I've been hearing about the Corel Netwinder, and the April 99 Linux
> Journal review really made it sound great.  So I wanted to look at
> models available, features, prices, etc.  I go to:

> http://www.corelcomputer.com/

> there's just a link to a press release: "Corel Corporation and Hardware
> Canada Computing Close Deal" (and some toll-free numbers to call).  You
> follow that link and are not led to exactly a mine of info about the
> Netwinder...

> (OK, the company's been bought, blah, blah, blah.  Now what about the
> damned machine itself?!)

> Or am I missing something obvious?

I didn't save the pricing pages I saw, but I do recall that all the
models I checked out were over $1000, mostly in the $1500-$2000 range.
Equivalent x86 PCs would probably go for about $200-$700 less.  I'm
pretty sure these were all US dollars, but if they were Canadian dollars,
it would make the Netwinder much more economically competitive.

--
Rod Smith

http://www.channel1.com/users/rodsmith
NOTE: Remove the "uce" word from my address to mail me

: I didn't save the pricing pages I saw, but I do recall that all the
: models I checked out were over $1000, mostly in the $1500-$2000
: range. Equivalent x86 PCs would probably go for about $200-$700
: less. I'm pretty sure these were all US dollars, but if they were
: Canadian dollars, it would make the Netwinder much more economically
: competitive.

Is it just me, or does anyone else think these things are silly at
this price?  For that matter, is everyone too busy thinking, "Gee,
this is neat, something else that can run Linux" to realize this is
just expensive proprietary hardware hiding underneath Linux (and a
somewhat proprietary distribution of Linux at that)?

If these things were about half the cost of a low-end PC, I could see
the attraction, but at these prices I can't see where there's a market
for these things in either the consumer or business sectors.

With a PC you can get replacement parts just about anywhere at commodity
prices and use any of the various x86 distributions of Linux.  With these
Netwinders you'll be stuck with having to go back to the manufacturer
for parts as well to get updates to the Linux distribution.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Michael |     mfaurot     | "I'm in Pittsburgh.  Why am I here?"
 Faurot  | phzzzt.atww.org |            -- Harold Urey, Nobel Laureate

Quote:>Is it just me, or does anyone else think these things are silly at
>this price?

Quote:>For that matter, is everyone too busy thinking, "Gee,
>this is neat, something else that can run Linux" to realize this is
>just expensive proprietary hardware hiding underneath Linux (and a
>somewhat proprietary distribution of Linux at that)?

Quote:>If these things were about half the cost of a low-end PC, I could see
>the attraction, but at these prices I can't see where there's a market
>for these things in either the consumer or business sectors.

Quote:>With a PC you can get replacement parts just about anywhere at commodity
>prices and use any of the various x86 distributions of Linux.  With these
>Netwinders you'll be stuck with having to go back to the manufacturer
>for parts as well to get updates to the Linux distribution.

--
Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.  
-- Henry Spencer          <http://www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/lsf.html>

: I'd not say "silly;" I'd simply say "much too expensive."

Okay, "silly" is not the right word--but I was just being polite. :)

:>If these things were about half the cost of a low-end PC, I could see
:>the attraction, but at these prices I can't see where there's a market
:>for these things in either the consumer or business sectors.

: I don't fully agree; compare to the LCD monitors that are also awfully
: expensive.  They can be worthwhile in places where space is at a premium,
: and not money.

This is true, if a product fits a particular niche, then business users
will pay a premium for it they need it.  Let me rephrase my statement
then:  I don't see where these things are going to have much of a market
within the mainstream consumer and business sectors.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Michael |     mfaurot     | Nothing succeeds like excess.
 Faurot  | phzzzt.atww.org |            -- Oscar Wilde

My theory is that they'd "sell like hotcakes" at a price of about $400.

<http://www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/linuxarch.html#N64> presents a model based
on a IX magazine "April Fools" article of 1997 which suggested a Linux
port to the Nintendo 64.  The German sense of humor is different enough
from those of more "Anglo" roots that far too many people took it
seriously...

My basic idea in 1997:

Take a N64 ($200).  Add 16MB of RAM, a video chip supported by XFree86
(S3V), keyboard, and Ethernet hardware.  This should still cost under
$400.  More modern units now come with CD-ROMs, which would make
deployment of Linux cheaper still, at $2 for a CD, rather than $50 for a
cartridge.

Reality is closer to that than you might think; I have heard reports
assortedly of the availability of Linux-based development platform
support for both N64 and Sony PlayStation.

A "disposable" computer with *no* hard drive, a CD-ROM, maybe some
FlashROM, and modest CPU/RAM packaged in a minscule case not too much
larger than the CD-ROM unit would be entirely handy and cheap.

A NetWinder that includes hard drive may be worth $600, but certainly at
over $1K it represents premium pricing for proprietary hardware, which
prevents mass sales...

--
"Without insects, our ecosystem would collapse and we would all die. In
that respect, insects are far more important than mere end-users."

My theory is that they'd "sell like hotcakes" at a price of about $400.

<http://www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/linuxarch.html#N64> presents a model based
on a IX magazine "April Fools" article of 1997 which suggested a Linux
port to the Nintendo 64.  The German sense of humor is different enough
from those of more "Anglo" roots that far too many people took it
seriously...

My basic idea in 1997:

Take a N64 ($200).  Add 16MB of RAM, a video chip supported by XFree86
(S3V), keyboard, and Ethernet hardware.  This should still cost under
$400.  More modern units now come with CD-ROMs, which would make
deployment of Linux cheaper still, at $2 for a CD, rather than $50 for a
cartridge.

Reality is closer to that than you might think; I have heard reports
assortedly of the availability of Linux-based development platform
support for both N64 and Sony PlayStation.

A "disposable" computer with *no* hard drive, a CD-ROM, maybe some
FlashROM, and modest CPU/RAM packaged in a minscule case not too much
larger than the CD-ROM unit would be entirely handy and cheap.

A NetWinder that includes hard drive may be worth $600, but certainly at
over $1K it represents premium pricing for proprietary hardware, which
prevents mass sales...

--
"Without insects, our ecosystem would collapse and we would all die. In
that respect, insects are far more important than mere end-users."

: My theory is that they'd "sell like hotcakes" at a price of about $400.

Agreed.  I'd definetly be interested at that price for both personal
and business use.

: My basic idea in 1997:

: Take a N64 ($200).  Add 16MB of RAM, a video chip supported by XFree86
: (S3V), keyboard, and Ethernet hardware.  This should still cost under
: $400.  More modern units now come with CD-ROMs, which would make
: deployment of Linux cheaper still, at $2 for a CD, rather than $50 for a
: cartridge.

: Reality is closer to that than you might think; I have heard reports
: assortedly of the availability of Linux-based development platform
: support for both N64 and Sony PlayStation.

This might fly for personal use.  I'd have a hard setting up a "Nintendo
thin-client" for business use though. :)  On the other hand, it would
all depend upon how it was packaged.  Having a Nintendo on your desk
running Linux might not be so bad, only so long as it didn't look like
a video game console.

: A "disposable" computer with *no* hard drive, a CD-ROM, maybe some
: FlashROM, and modest CPU/RAM packaged in a minscule case not too much
: larger than the CD-ROM unit would be entirely handy and cheap.

Esentially a hand-held PC running Linux.  That would be cool.  

: A NetWinder that includes hard drive may be worth $600, but certainly at
: over $1K it represents premium pricing for proprietary hardware, which
: prevents mass sales...

$600 is about the same price as a low-end PC.  I'd still rather have a
PC than a Netwinder at this price.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Michael |     mfaurot     | Everything is controlled by a small evil group
 Faurot  | phzzzt.atww.org | to which, unfortunately, no one we know belongs.

Quote:> Combine "space premium" with lower power consumption, and consider that
> corporate folk aren't fixated on that $600 price when (the clueful ones)
> figure that deployment requires adding in other costs.

> You may not like $600; they might well be able to sell enough "hotcakes" at
> that price to keep product lines humming.  Remember, about $100-$150 of that
> represents cost of a hard drive; chop out HD and we get near $400...

I'm the one who started this thread, basically because I could NOT find
any info as to Netwinder models, specs, prices etc. at the
corelcomputer.com or hcc.ca sites.  And they got such great exposure in
Linux Journal this month!

I'm not sure I want to spend even $400 for a computer made by a company
so lame it can't even put some info up about them.

I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, and I don't know why I'm complaining
since it looks like these thingies really cost about $1-1.5K, not
$400/$600 and I can't (won't?) afford that (same as some other folks who
said Netwinders are overpriced).

It just makes Linux-ers look lame when a major company selling "its"
computers can't do a decent, standard merchandising job.

Or, maybe there are circumstances I am unaware of, and I should just
shet m' mouf. ;-)

Hmmfffff.

Bob L.

: I'm the one who started this thread, basically because I could NOT find
: any info as to Netwinder models, specs, prices etc. at the
: corelcomputer.com or hcc.ca sites.  And they got such great exposure in
: Linux Journal this month!

: I'm not sure I want to spend even $400 for a computer made by a company
: so lame it can't even put some info up about them.

When I investigated the Corel web pages last year, there was plenty of
info on the Netwinders including pricing for the development system.
I am, by no means, an appologist for them, but I suspect it's just a
transitional problem going from Corel to the new company.  

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Michael |     mfaurot     | Populus vult decipi.
 Faurot  | phzzzt.atww.org |    [The people like to be deceived.]

It has an article on some recent policies at Corel that do not sound to bode
well for the Netwinder division.  

Be a little skeptical; the Citizen doesn't always get "techie" things
perfectly right, but it sure sounds like Corel is trying to do anything they
can, and "thrashing around" as it were...

--
Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.  
-- Henry Spencer          <http://www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/lsf.html>

Quote:> some recent policies at Corel that do not sound to bode
> well for the Netwinder division.

AT