Why does RedHat Linux 4 X-Windows try to look like Windows 95

Why does RedHat Linux 4 X-Windows try to look like Windows 95

Post by Jorge Padro » Sun, 06 Apr 1997 04:00:00



As a computer consultant and IS director for a company, I'm almost forced
to use and recommend mainstream programs (i.e. NT Server/Workstation/95, MS
Office, Lotus Notes, etc.).  However, I *do* know MS Windows [many] weak
points very well.

I purchased RedHat Linux 4.0 just to experiment with a UNIX-Like operating
system.  I like UNIX as an operating system (very stable and mature).

However, I was *very* disappointed when I ran "startx" only to find that
the default XWindows manager tries to look like Windows 95.  Why try to
emulate Windows 95 look-and-feel?

Anyway, IMHO, that was a very bad sign for me as far as how creative
non-mainstream software companies are and how easily they are throwing the
towel before Microsoft :-).

So, my question is how do I make XWindows look like XWindows rather than
Windows 95?

TIA,

--
Jorge Padron
Advanced IS Technologies

 
 
 

Why does RedHat Linux 4 X-Windows try to look like Windows 95

Post by Jon Haugsan » Wed, 09 Apr 1997 04:00:00



> So, my question is how do I make XWindows look like XWindows rather than
> Windows 95?

Wrong question. The X Window system does not look like W95 because
pure X is not a desktop system, it is just a windowing system. To get
a desktop you need a window manager with its configuring files. The
W95 look you got with RedHat can easily be replaced by another, one
you make yourself, or one of the other predefined ones. Look in the
directory /etc/X11/TheNextLevel or at your home directory ~/.xsession.
It should be easy to try out some of the other.

I myself is satisfied with the W95 desktop, because it is easier to
get others to work with Gnu/Linux/X. And the look of the desktop does
not mean much to me anyway.

--
Jon Haugsand

  http://www.ifi.uio.no/~jonhaug/, Pho/fax: +47-22852441/+47-22852401

 
 
 

Why does RedHat Linux 4 X-Windows try to look like Windows 95

Post by David Bar » Wed, 09 Apr 1997 04:00:00


: As a computer consultant and IS director for a company, I'm almost forced
: to use and recommend mainstream programs (i.e. NT Server/Workstation/95, MS
: Office, Lotus Notes, etc.).  However, I *do* know MS Windows [many] weak
: points very well.

We all do...

: I purchased RedHat Linux 4.0 just to experiment with a UNIX-Like operating
: system.  I like UNIX as an operating system (very stable and mature).

: However, I was *very* disappointed when I ran "startx" only to find that
: the default XWindows manager tries to look like Windows 95.  Why try to
: emulate Windows 95 look-and-feel?

I'm not talking for RedHat, but I guess they mainly did so because the NextLevel
won the contest they organised to find a practical window manager.
Anyway, Fvwm95 looks worst, from your point of you ;-)

: Anyway, IMHO, that was a very bad sign for me as far as how creative
: non-mainstream software companies are and how easily they are throwing the
: towel before Microsoft :-).

Remember the Win95 look & feel is mainly inspired by NeXT and Mac. Microsoft
just took some parts of them to build it's interface...

: So, my question is how do I make XWindows look like XWindows rather than
: Windows 95?

Replace exec fvwm95-2 in your .xsession files : put exec fvwm instead (or afterstep if you installed it).

: TIA,

: --
: Jorge Padron
: Advanced IS Technologies

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Why does RedHat Linux 4 X-Windows try to look like Windows 95

Post by Soren Laurse » Wed, 09 Apr 1997 04:00:00




> > the default XWindows manager tries to look like Windows 95.  Why try to

> In my case, I must switch between Win95 and Xwindows regularly. Thus
> I set all my window dressings to look like Win95 window dressings so
> that when I click on the little "X" to kill a window, it by god dies
> like it should.

Speaking of fvwm95 on Redhat 4.1, I have noticed that the windows have a
small button in the upper left corner. The first brings up a menu as
does the third one but the second has no visible effect. Is anyone using
this button? (Just asking out of curiosity, I have plenty of buttons
already).
 
 
 

Why does RedHat Linux 4 X-Windows try to look like Windows 95

Post by Jürgen Exne » Wed, 09 Apr 1997 04:00:00




Quote:> [...]
> However, I was *very* disappointed when I ran "startx" only to find that
> the default XWindows manager tries to look like Windows 95.  Why try to
> emulate Windows 95 look-and-feel?

A good question

Quote:> [...]
> So, my question is how do I make XWindows look like XWindows rather than
> Windows 95?

Now you are comparing apples and baskets.

First there is nothing like XWindows (this would be an offence for the
developers of X). It's either X (maybe X11) or the X Window System.
X for itself has no user interface at all, it's only a huge collection of
library functions.

The user interface (aka desktop) you are complaining about is defined by
the window manager.
So the answer to your question is simle: use a different window manager.
There are virtually dozens around: vwm, mwm, fvwm, twm, vtwm, olwm, and
many more.
Each of them implements a different look and feel, therefore there is
nothing like "the XWindows look" either.

jue

--
Juergen Exner; v-jurgex AT microsoft.com;
Microsoft Corp., One Microsoft Way, Redmond, WA 98052

 
 
 

Why does RedHat Linux 4 X-Windows try to look like Windows 95

Post by David M. Co » Thu, 10 Apr 1997 04:00:00



Quote:>However, I was *very* disappointed when I ran "startx" only to find that
>the default XWindows manager tries to look like Windows 95.  Why try to
>emulate Windows 95 look-and-feel?

Actually, Redhat installs an modified fvwm95 called TheNextLevel as the
default.  With its weird window buttons it doesn't resemble Win95 much.  I
prefer straight fvwm95.

fvwm95 is highly configurable.  You can tweak it until it looks nothing
like Win95.  See the fvwm95-2 manpage.  

Dave Cook

 
 
 

Why does RedHat Linux 4 X-Windows try to look like Windows 95

Post by David E. F » Thu, 10 Apr 1997 04:00:00



>However, I was *very* disappointed when I ran "startx" only to find that
>the default XWindows manager tries to look like Windows 95.  Why try to
>emulate Windows 95 look-and-feel?

All the power of XWindows is still there. As you say, it just looks
like Windows 95 :).

You can change it to something else if you want to. Edit your personal
.xinitrc to use a different window manager, and there are quite
a few of those (mwm, twm, fvwm, afterstep, etc.)

I hate to admit it but there are a few nice things about the Win95
'look and feel' that I like. One is the taskbar at the bottom - handy
for switching applications. The menus are OK, but moving windows is
done easier with fvwm's 'regular' menus (mwm.fvwmrc or sample.fvwmrc),
for instance.

And finally, in the for what it's worth department: :)

I went from Windows (then 3.1) to Linux a few years ago, and
got used to X in various flavors. When I first saw Win 95, I
remarked that it was a lot like X. Well, as we all know, it's
not X, but certain things, such as the way the mouse buttons/
menus work, is a lot closer to motif / fvwm than Win 3.1.

>Jorge Padron
>Advanced IS Technologies


--
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David E. Fox                 Tax              Thanks for letting me


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Why does RedHat Linux 4 X-Windows try to look like Windows 95

Post by Eugene O'Ne » Thu, 10 Apr 1997 04:00:00




Quote:>I purchased RedHat Linux 4.0 just to experiment with a UNIX-Like operating
>system.  I like UNIX as an operating system (very stable and mature).

>However, I was *very* disappointed when I ran "startx" only to find that
>the default XWindows manager tries to look like Windows 95.  Why try to
>emulate Windows 95 look-and-feel?

The Windows 95 "look-and-feel" isn't all that bad, and actually has some really
good points to it. It's the Windows 95 "crash-and-burn" design philosophy, as
well as Windows 95's complete lack of "source-and-GPL", that they thankfully
made no attempt to emulate.  

Quote:>Anyway, IMHO, that was a very bad sign for me as far as how creative
>non-mainstream software companies are and how easily they are throwing the
>towel before Microsoft :-).

I doubt that Microsoft appreciates having someone imitate their look and feel on
top of a superior operating system. Stealing somebody's best features isn't
exactly doing them a favor. Ask Apple!

Quote:>So, my question is how do I make XWindows look like XWindows rather than
>Windows 95?

There is no single "XWindows look". XWindows depends on a program called a
"window manager" to give it a look and feel. The window manager you are using
right now is called "fvwm95", which is launched from your ~/.xinitrc file. It is
a modified version of another window manager named fvwm2, which you might
prefer.

To read about a wide variety of window managers, look in:
        http://www.plig.org/xwinman/

Once you have chosen one, install it on your machine (actually, one or more of
them might already be installed, or be available on your installation CD) and
alter your .xinitrc to launch your new window manager instead of fvwm95.

-Eugene

 
 
 

Why does RedHat Linux 4 X-Windows try to look like Windows 95

Post by Eric L. Gree » Thu, 10 Apr 1997 04:00:00



> the default XWindows manager tries to look like Windows 95.  Why try to

In my case, I must switch between Win95 and Xwindows regularly. Thus
I set all my window dressings to look like Win95 window dressings so
that when I click on the little "X" to kill a window, it by god dies
like it should.

--

Systems Specialist                    Educational Administration
Solutions

 
 
 

Why does RedHat Linux 4 X-Windows try to look like Windows 95

Post by Omegama » Thu, 10 Apr 1997 04:00:00



> However, I was *very* disappointed when I ran "startx" only to find that
> the default XWindows manager tries to look like Windows 95.  Why try to
> emulate Windows 95 look-and-feel?

Because a large portion of the linux population or converts from
Windows.  Maybe they want a familiar "look and feel."  Considering the
enormous options youhave to change that look and feel with various
window managers...well...what's your point?

Quote:> Anyway, IMHO, that was a very bad sign for me as far as how creative
> non-mainstream software companies are and how easily they are throwing the
> towel before Microsoft :-).

What does the creativity issue have to do with it?  Go in CompUSA and
buy yourself a preconfigured Linux Box.

Quote:> So, my question is how do I make XWindows look like XWindows rather than
> Windows 95?

The question is meaningless. How does XWindows "look" in your opinion?
 CDE?  Openlook?  NeXTstep?

Linux is all about letting the user decide how the want everything to
work, look, & feel.

me
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Why does RedHat Linux 4 X-Windows try to look like Windows 95

Post by Kevin T. Shaw aka No0 » Fri, 11 Apr 1997 04:00:00


[Posted and mailed]



Quote:> As a computer consultant and IS director for a company, I'm almost forced
> to use and recommend mainstream programs (i.e. NT Server/Workstation/95, MS
> Office, Lotus Notes, etc.).  However, I *do* know MS Windows [many] weak
> points very well.

> I purchased RedHat Linux 4.0 just to experiment with a UNIX-Like operating
> system.  I like UNIX as an operating system (very stable and mature).

> However, I was *very* disappointed when I ran "startx" only to find that
> the default XWindows manager tries to look like Windows 95.  Why try to
> emulate Windows 95 look-and-feel?

> Anyway, IMHO, that was a very bad sign for me as far as how creative
> non-mainstream software companies are and how easily they are throwing the
> towel before Microsoft :-).

> So, my question is how do I make XWindows look like XWindows rather than
> Windows 95?

> TIA,

easy go to http://www.plig.org/ click on the link that says xmanagers
there will be this page that has tons of x win managers.

I like fvwm its just easy to use, although i dont use x a lot, other may go with afterstep.

--
-Kevin T. Shaw aka No0ne

http://www.ntr.net/~no0ne/key.html  for public pgp key
Key fingerprint =  92 82 B5 45 31 C5 BB 92  6A 78 E2 8C 4A B8 C6 43

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Linux becuase reboots are for upgrades....

 
 
 

Why does RedHat Linux 4 X-Windows try to look like Windows 95

Post by Ian COWEL » Sat, 12 Apr 1997 04:00:00





> > > the default XWindows manager tries to look like Windows 95.  Why try to

> > In my case, I must switch between Win95 and Xwindows regularly. Thus
> > I set all my window dressings to look like Win95 window dressings so
> > that when I click on the little "X" to kill a window, it by god dies
> > like it should.

> Speaking of fvwm95 on Redhat 4.1, I have noticed that the windows have a
> small button in the upper left corner. The first brings up a menu as
> does the third one but the second has no visible effect. Is anyone using
> this button? (Just asking out of curiosity, I have plenty of buttons
> already).

The "stick" button?
If you go to  /etc/X11/TheNextLevel/.fvwm2rc.defines
and uncomment the
define(`WIN95_BUTTONS')
Then that button goes away.
You just have the lefthand menu button and the minimise, maximise and
close buttons on the right hand side.
The buttons are defined in
/etc/X11/TheNextLevel/.fvwm2rc.buttons
--
Ian Cowell

----------------------
 
 
 

Why does RedHat Linux 4 X-Windows try to look like Windows 95

Post by Shannon D. Rus » Sat, 12 Apr 1997 04:00:00




> Speaking of fvwm95 on Redhat 4.1, I have noticed that the windows have a
> small button in the upper left corner. The first brings up a menu as
> does the third one but the second has no visible effect. Is anyone using
> this button? (Just asking out of curiosity, I have plenty of buttons
> already).

That middle button causes the window to become "sticky."  This means that
the window acts like it is "stuck" to the glass on the monitor, so that
whenever you switch to another virtual desktop the window goes with you.  
This can be a handy feature if you have a control panel or something that
you want on the screen at all times without having 2 or 3 of the open.

Shannon D. Rush

 
 
 

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