Very Computer

: I've got a PCI Pentium based system with 16 Megs of RAM two
: SCSI hard disks (one a 1 GB and one a 350 Mg).  I have a BusLogic
: PCI SCSI Adapter and an ATI Mach 32 PCI Video card.  (I also have
: a Soundblaster 16).  I've attempted to install Linux on my machine
: with no luck.  I've created the boot disk and root disk as instructed
: (I used the scsi file as well as scsi1net and the bare files).  
: Once I create the disks, I reboot the machine with the floppy disk
: inside the drive.  The system goes through the Adapter prom
: (I.e. gives the firmware rev. which in this case is 4.91) and probes
: out the devices.  It then accesses the floppy drive and then stops dead.
: No errors, no nothing...It just hangs until I reboot.   I've tried
: removing the SB16 with no luck.  (I thought it might be a conflict
: with the cards).  One thing to note is that Yggdrasil Plug and Play
: (Fall 94) works like a champ.  I just wanted a later version of Linux
: and Slackware was offering 1.2.8 and Yggdrasil seemed behind the eight
: ball in offering later versions of Linux.   Anyone have any ideas?

: [Getting on soapbox]...

: Folks,  

: If you want to charge $ for Linux, at least have the decency
: to offer a reasonable installation procedure.  Yggdrasil, for all its
: other issues, is the best at offering this.  Installation should
: be no more difficult to start than either

: a.  Booting from a floppy or,

: b.  Running a command from the CD-ROM.

: Having to create your own boot and root floppies is complete bullshit.
: How do you expect "the people" (TM) to use this if the installation
: is so difficult?  I *hate* software that just hangs or fails silently.
: If Yggdrasil can makes this work, why can't all of you other vendors
: out there?  Walnut Creek/Slackware, you listening?

: [Getting off soapbox]...

: Braun Brelin

    Re soap box:

   What do you expect for $10?.  Of course its sometimes not straight forward to
install; but I'd rather pay $10 than $500.  I think that the Slackware people
have done a great job. I had several problems installing 2.3 on my P100,
mainly due to cd recognition. Internet help got me going again. It runs just
great, in fact faster than on my Sparc 10 at work.

   Adrian

Braun Brelin

Braun Brelin

I've got a PCI Pentium based system with 16 Megs of RAM two
SCSI hard disks (one a 1 GB and one a 350 Mg).  I have a BusLogic
PCI SCSI Adapter and an ATI Mach 32 PCI Video card.  (I also have
a Soundblaster 16).  I've attempted to install Linux on my machine
with no luck.  I've created the boot disk and root disk as instructed
(I used the scsi file as well as scsi1net and the bare files).  
Once I create the disks, I reboot the machine with the floppy disk
inside the drive.  The system goes through the Adapter prom
(I.e. gives the firmware rev. which in this case is 4.91) and probes
out the devices.  It then accesses the floppy drive and then stops dead.
No errors, no nothing...It just hangs until I reboot.   I've tried
removing the SB16 with no luck.  (I thought it might be a conflict
with the cards).  One thing to note is that Yggdrasil Plug and Play
(Fall 94) works like a champ.  I just wanted a later version of Linux
and Slackware was offering 1.2.8 and Yggdrasil seemed behind the eight
ball in offering later versions of Linux.   Anyone have any ideas?

[Getting on soapbox]...

Folks,  

If you want to charge $ for Linux, at least have the decency
to offer a reasonable installation procedure.  Yggdrasil, for all its
other issues, is the best at offering this.  Installation should
be no more difficult to start than either

a.  Booting from a floppy or,

b.  Running a command from the CD-ROM.

Having to create your own boot and root floppies is complete bullshit.
How do you expect "the people" (TM) to use this if the installation
is so difficult?  I *hate* software that just hangs or fails silently.
If Yggdrasil can makes this work, why can't all of you other vendors
out there?  Walnut Creek/Slackware, you listening?

[Getting off soapbox]...

Braun Brelin

Quote:>(Fall 94) works like a champ.  I just wanted a later version of Linux
>and Slackware was offering 1.2.8 and Yggdrasil seemed behind the eight
>ball in offering later versions of Linux.   Anyone have any ideas?

Well, if all you want is the new version of the kernel, wouldn't it be a bit
easier just to get the kernel source than to reinstall the entire OS?

--

                             -----|(------       Don't Capacitate!

PGP key, and my disclaimer for this message.        (cramped tagline)

: Having to create your own boot and root floppies is complete bullshit.
: How do you expect "the people" (TM) to use this if the installation

Linux is free software.  But you should know what you are doing before
attempting to install it.  If you don't know how to copy diskimages to
make your boot and root disks, then you probably shouldnt be running
linux in the first place.  As for expecting "the people" to use the
software, if you want software for "the people" get Windows or some other
lame GUI... but don't expect the source code ;-)

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
->Ryan Drake<-                           "The woods are lovely, dark and deep.

[URL]   --to be announced--               And miles to go before I sleep."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:>: If you want to charge $ for Linux, at least have the decency
>: to offer a reasonable installation procedure.  Yggdrasil, for all its
>: other issues, is the best at offering this.  Installation should
>: be no more difficult to start than either

>: a.  Booting from a floppy or,

>: b.  Running a command from the CD-ROM.

>: Having to create your own boot and root floppies is complete bullshit.
>: How do you expect "the people" (TM) to use this if the installation
>: is so difficult?  I *hate* software that just hangs or fails silently.
>: If Yggdrasil can makes this work, why can't all of you other vendors
>: out there?  Walnut Creek/Slackware, you listening?

I got the Infomagic Slackware CD and it was a snap to install on my
machine.  It took all of 5 minutes to make boot and root floppies.
I booted up from them without a problem, ran fdisk (trivial except you
need to know the /dev/hdb trick for the second hard drive) and then
installed all the packages of interest.  That isn't automatic because
you have to decide what you want; it can't be automated.  The only
thing I had any trouble with at all was X windows because the disk
had X11R6 and the book talked about X11R5.  I had to change a few
links to point to the correct paths, and then everything was fine.

And I know just a little about Unix and almost nothing about DOS.
I found installing DOS and Windoze far more difficult than Linux,
having to learn both concurrently.  (I design analog circuits for
a living (not really computer related), so I have no big leg
up on the "the people", except perhaps on the Xconfig scan numbers.)
I did allow myself one unfair advantage.  I did a lot of reading
about Linux before I started.

Rick Karlquist

1. Prepare a blank DOS-formatted diskette

2. Copy "slakware" directory structure on CD-ROM to the diskette
along with "maketag" and "tagfile.*" files. (You won't need all the
directories, just first of each series such as a1, ap1, d1, etc)

3. Boot linux from your boot/root disk combination

4. Before running setup, create a mount point (such as /tagfiles)
and mount the "tagfiles" diskette with the following command:
% mount -t msdos /dev/fd0 /tagfiles

5. During "source" setup, create tagfiles under /tagfiles/a1,
/tagfiles/ap1, etc.

6. *** important step ***! Before proceeding to next step, go to
another virtual console (alt-F2), and copy all your custom tafiles
with your own extension to "tagfile". I know, I know, you will be
overwriting the default tagfile but I will explain why you need to do
this in later step.

7. Go back to your first virtual console (alt-F1) and tell setup where
it could find your custom tagfiles. (/tagfiles) You will NOT be asked
for your "custom" extension here, thus setup uses default "tagfile".
It's ok, because you already copied your custome tagfile to default
tagfile. Does this make sense? Hope it does! :)

8. Now, just sit back and see setup reading your tagfiles and
automatically install the packages according to your liking.

Sang

You have no idea how complicated what your spewing about actually is. Have
you ever put a unix box together from scratch? Try to set up a sparc-10 or
DEC alpha, out of the box sometime.  AND THOSE SYSTEMS COST MEGA-BUCKS!!!!

:Having to create your own boot and root floppies is complete bullshit.
:How do you expect "the people" (TM) to use this if the installation
:is so difficult?  I *hate* software that just hangs or fails silently.

I suppose asking that people understand a boot-disk is too difficult??  You
know Windows 95 is going to be out real soon.  Perhaps you would be happier
with that.

:If Yggdrasil can makes this work, why can't all of you other vendors
:out there?  Walnut Creek/Slackware, you listening?

Slackware's install DOES work.  It works remarkably well.  Now, sometimes
the sources that they use are OLD versions.. but you can't have
everything...

: You have no idea how complicated what your spewing about actually is. Have
: you ever put a unix box together from scratch? Try to set up a sparc-10 or
: DEC alpha, out of the box sometime.  AND THOSE SYSTEMS COST MEGA-BUCKS!!!!

If only the linux "advocates" who keep telling everyone "how much simpler
linux is to install compared to MS Windows" could see :-).

: I suppose asking that people understand a boot-disk is too difficult??  You
: know Windows 95 is going to be out real soon.  Perhaps you would be happier
: with that.

I have Win95, Yggdrasil (Summer 94), and Slackware (July 95). Linux may
be more powerful, but most people will be happier with Win95. It is
easier to use, unless you already understand UNIX.

: :If Yggdrasil can makes this work, why can't all of you other vendors
: :out there?  Walnut Creek/Slackware, you listening?

: Slackware's install DOES work.  It works remarkably well.  Now, sometimes
: the sources that they use are OLD versions.. but you can't have
: everything...

Slackware works, but you get to sit there and endless say "yes or no" to
various packages that may be installed. Yggdrasil offers a dialog box
under X with a series of check boxes for optional stuff. Slackware ask
you to type horizontal and vertical refresh rates for your monitor to set
up X. This is what you consider "works remarkably well"?

Slackware works, but it is crude.

Tony

--
------------------
Tony Tribelli

Not true, you do not have to sit there and answer yes/no to a long list
of packages. Yggdrasil, under X, offers a dialog box full of check boxes
for various add-on packages. Select what you want, click OK, come back a
few minutes later and it's done.

Slackware works, but it is crude. It makes the Windows install look good
:-).

Tony

--
------------------
Tony Tribelli

Quote:>Slackware works, but you get to sit there and endless say "yes or no" to
>various packages that may be installed. Yggdrasil offers a dialog box
>under X with a series of check boxes for optional stuff. Slackware ask
>you to type horizontal and vertical refresh rates for your monitor to set
>up X. This is what you consider "works remarkably well"?

Roel

Also it has several uniques advantages in that Linux development, guided
more directly by users has an opportunity develop faster and on a wider
range of CPUs- on the other hand it is hard to reward a common good.

I have a more prosaic problem which is - how do I xsfer the Linux
application pgm binaries from DOS to Linux. I can't see them from the
UMSDOS filing system. You can get back to me offline (mail). Thanks.

: Look up "Verbose" some time in the dictionary... Why not try to install
: Slakware in Quick mode?... it remedies all of the yes/no questions.  
: I am a bit leary of installing in X, but I guess that's the way
: everything is installs these days... (windoze, slowaris 2.4, windoze 9?, ...)

True, you can skip the yes/no questions in Slackware. But doesn't that
cause all that unneccessary stuff to get installed? Not much of an
improvement.

Tony
--
------------------
Tony Tribelli