Very Computer

by **Kevin B. Flu** » Wed, 18 May 1994 18:46:43

>The purpose of this mail is to announce the availability of CRISP 4.1.9 via
>anonymous FTP.
>For folks not familiar with CRISP, it is a BRIEF/vi compatible, _truly_
>graphical text editor on Unix and Windows platforms that offers some of
>the most advanced set of features combined with an exceptional ease of
>use that is unheard of under UNIX.

The X version (vcr) wants libxv3.so.2. Does anyone know where to find it?
Isn't that a rather old lib? libxv3.so.3 doesn't seem to be compatible.

BTW, the text version is very impressive so far. Could this FINALLY be the
Linux GUI word-processor everyone has been waiting for.

-- Kevin

------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin Fluet WorldGate Public Access Internet

by **Win Be** » Thu, 19 May 1994 05:25:21

>The purpose of this mail is to announce the availability of CRISP 4.1.9 via
>anonymous FTP.

> [misc. features and rave reviews deleted]

>For information regarding its availability, features, pricing etc., send a
>mail detailing your requirements to:

Sounds nice. Oh, what's that? "Pricing"? Let's see... It turns out
that a Fixed License to CRISP costs $300.

I DO NOT OBJECT to selling software on The Net. I DO OBJECT to
announcements which bury the word "pricing" so that one might not
realise that it's a commercial offering.

You're announcing it to an OS-specific group! How hard would it have
been to include the OS-specific pricing in the announcement?

--

USC University Comp. Services (213) 740-3181
Disclaimer: My company has not authorized me to issue a disclaimer.

by **Vassili Leon** » Thu, 19 May 1994 04:24:45

: Hello,

: The purpose of this mail is to announce the availability of CRISP 4.1.9 via
: anonymous FTP.

I have downloaded the stuff - and - unlike most Linux software it
won't run after following the INSTALL document (though much of the
install document is about entering passwords and IDs and such...)
So - in a text mode it says:
*** CRISP has failed to locate the 'crisp.cm' startup macro.
In the X-Windows mode it just says:

Quote:>vcr

vcr: can't load library '//usr/openwin/lib/libxv3.so.2'
No such library.
and YES - such library is not in the Linux openwin distribution.
And of course no 'crisp.cm' is present nowhere in the tar that I've
gownloaded from /vendor/vital/linux crbin1.gz

So... This brings us to the question - does such a thing as a reliable
non-free software exsists? (Less ORACLE :-)

: For folks not familiar with CRISP, it is a BRIEF/vi compatible, _truly_
: graphical text editor on Unix and Windows platforms that offers some of
: the most advanced set of features combined with an exceptional ease of
: use that is unheard of under UNIX.

: UNIX WORLD rated CRISP as the 'EDITOR TO BEAT', whereas UNIX REVIEW rated
: CRISP as "THE ONLY EDITOR YOU MAY EVER NEED". Now it is your turn to check
: it out and see for yourself, how far behind the competition is.

: CRISP 4.1 can be anonymous FTP'd from:
: Name of Archive: ftp.uu.net (137.39.1.9 or 192.48.96.9)
: Directory For CRISP Binaries: /vendor/vital

: For information regarding its availability, features, pricing etc., send a
: mail detailing your requirements to:

: Available From:
: VITAL
: 4109 Candlewyck Drive
: Plano, TX 75024, U.S.A
: Ph: +1 (214) 491-6907
: Fax: +1 (214) 491-6909

: --

: Be sure to include Keywords: and a short description of your software.

by **Robert Brought** » Thu, 19 May 1994 15:10:42

(Vassili Leonov) writes:

> : Hello,

> : The purpose of this mail is to announce the availability of CRISP 4.1.9
> via
> : anonymous FTP.

> I have downloaded the stuff - and - unlike most Linux software it
> won't run after following the INSTALL document (though much of the
> install document is about entering passwords and IDs and such...)
> So - in a text mode it says:
> *** CRISP has failed to locate the 'crisp.cm' startup macro.
> In the X-Windows mode it just says:
> >vcr
> vcr: can't load library '//usr/openwin/lib/libxv3.so.2'
> No such library.
> and YES - such library is not in the Linux openwin distribution.
> And of course no 'crisp.cm' is present nowhere in the tar that I've
> gownloaded from /vendor/vital/linux crbin1.gz

It's in crbin2.gz.

From INSTALL.LINUX:

Quote:
> STEP 5: Change directory to /usr/local or to any other directory
> where you would like to install crisp. Distribution will
> automatically make a sub-directory called crisp. You may
> have to set the variables CRHELP and CRPATH if installation
> is not done in the /usr/local directory.
> cd /usr/local or
> cd <install-directory>

The file crisp.cm (along with all the other *.cm files) should be in
/usr/local/crisp/macros. If it isn't, you'll have to set CRPATH to
wherever the *.cm files are.

There is a mistake in INSTALL.LINUX, by the way; You must type vcr rather
than mcr to start the XWindow version.

I didn't have the "missing shared library" problem that some others
have complained about. I have libxv3.so.2 linked to libxv3.so.2.0, in
the directory /lib.

Also, I saw a price tag of $300 for Crisp posted here. There are several
different types of Crisp licenses. I suspect that all that most Linux
users need is a single-user, single-execution license. The price I was
quoted for this (sans manual) is $99. The manual is OK, but you can
get by without it.

--
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

"We calm and reassure. We embrace people with the message that we're
all in it together. That our leaders are infallible and that there is
nothing, absolutely nothing wrong." - Miles Drentell, _thirtysomething_

by **Kevin B. Flu** » Thu, 19 May 1994 16:07:32

> Also to note, is that unlike the rest of Unix, none of the newer versions
>of crisp past 2.2.e (many years old) have the source released. I personally
>don't like the idea of taking all the source of a decent program proprietary.
>A truly free (GPL'd) systems like Linux shouldn't be ruined by "non-free"
>software. (I don't run motif on Linux either)

What utter garbage! Any time someone releases a commercial product for
Linux, all you software communists come out of the woodwork and whine that
it isn't free.

There are NO decent word processors for Linux (oh, ok ,EMACS--yeah, right),
and if someone wants to charge for something that does the job right, GREAT!
It makes Linux all the better if commercial apps are supported. I was glad
to pay $80 for my Uniboard licence (Uniboard is the ONLY decent BBS software
that runs under Linux). I'll be the first one to snatch up a copy of
Novell's Linux offering. If it does the job better than the free software
available, why wouldn't I pay a reasonable price for it?

-- Kevin

------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin Fluet WorldGate Public Access Internet

by **Peter Suetterl** » Thu, 19 May 1994 20:59:29

: >Sounds nice. Oh, what's that? "Pricing"? Let's see... It turns out
: >that a Fixed License to CRISP costs $300.

: Also to note, is that unlike the rest of Unix, none of the newer versions
: of crisp past 2.2.e (many years old) have the source released. I personally
: don't like the idea of taking all the source of a decent program proprietary.
: A truly free (GPL'd) systems like Linux shouldn't be ruined by "non-free"
: software. (I don't run motif on Linux either)

: - rob -
: --

I see the problem of adverti*ts for 'payware' on the net.
But, OTOH, see all those postings that *ask* for exactly that kind of
software (Mathematica, Maple, ....).
And, as long as it isn't a permanent reappearing post, I appreciate
*every* posting concerning the availability of new software for Linux.
At least, I don't have to buy it. But to make the decision not to buy, I
have to know that it exists.

Peter

by **Shyamal Pras** » Fri, 20 May 1994 01:42:51

Quote:
>The X version (vcr) wants libxv3.so.2. Does anyone know where to find it?
>Isn't that a rather old lib? libxv3.so.3 doesn't seem to be compatible.

>BTW, the text version is very impressive so far. Could this FINALLY be the
>Linux GUI word-processor everyone has been waiting for.

Not me! Emacs 19 is GUI enough for me (Emacs 18 was good enough for
me!), and its free. There is no way I'm going to plunk down $300 or so
for an editor that cannot be *much* superior to emacs. To be honest I
don't see what a non-free editor is doing in a linux newsgroup ;-)

Of course I'm trying to be unbiased, but if you really want to know: I
doubt its better than emacs :-)

Shyamal
--
Shyamal Prasad, Department of Computer Science
Southern Methodist University, Dallas TX 75275, USA

by **d..** » Fri, 20 May 1994 07:17:49

: Also to note, is that unlike the rest of Unix, none of the newer versions
: of crisp past 2.2.e (many years old) have the source released. I personally
: don't like the idea of taking all the source of a decent program proprietary.
: A truly free (GPL'd) systems like Linux shouldn't be ruined by "non-free"
: software. (I don't run motif on Linux either)

Grow up.

--

+--------------------------------------+

by **Matt Wel** » Fri, 20 May 1994 14:44:14

Quote:>It makes Linux all the better if commercial apps are supported.

If your only motive is to run software that works for you, there
are many commercial UNIX implementations for the PC. Some that aren't
very expensive, I might add. But there is an ethic behind the development
of free software which is that software should be free, so that people
can share it and help each other to improve it. Once you allow a commerical
software product to satisfy your basic computing needs, you've lost the
ability to improve it or modify it to suit your needs.

Quote:>If it does the job better than the free software
>available, why wouldn't I pay a reasonable price for it?

Because doing so impedes the necessity for the development of free
software. When you give in to commercial software, particularly
operating systems, you aren't aiding the free software world for
providing anything better. Free software only improves as long as
its users demand and allow it to do so.

If everyone shared your attitude, Linux wouldn't be here at all.
Linus would have stared at his screen printing "AAA... BBB...",
realized that SCO worked better, and resorted to that. Instead,
some of us demand that free software improve, not only by helping
to develop it, but also by _depending_ on it for everyday use.

mdw

by **Mike Suz** » Fri, 20 May 1994 23:56:16

[On the subject of CRISP]

Quote:>Not me! Emacs 19 is GUI enough for me (Emacs 18 was good enough for
>me!), and its free. There is no way I'm going to plunk down $300 or so
>for an editor that cannot be *much* superior to emacs. To be honest I
>don't see what a non-free editor is doing in a linux newsgroup ;-)

I'd like to stem off the tide on this one right now. I see no
problem - NONE, nada, zip - with commercial products. I have no
problem with the discussion of them, brief, well-thought out and
unobtrusive mentions of them by the individuals marketing them,
or even periodic announcements about them (although the .announce
group is the place for that).
Why is it that, because Linux is free, everything surrounding it must
be free also? Commercial ventures like Transamerica and such are what
will fuel greater use of Linux, because they provide needed services that
a chaotic support structure cannot. If CRISP gives users a GUI-based
editor that they like, more power to them for charging $300, it's up
to the users to ask themselves if that's a good price. No one is obligated
to give their work away, no matter what GNU likes to preach. Now, I agree -
I would never pay $300 for something that is just not going to be $300
more functionality than Emacs. I would, however, pay up to $30-40 for
something like this, just because I'm not a big fan of Emacs, so something
different might be worth the money. There are plenty of commerical
products for Linux that I would pay for - like DOOM :-).

In short, let's not condemn anyone for trying to make money. If you want
to consider them evil scum, fine. But they have a place in the Linux
community.

--
|+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++|

| Marketing Director - Friday Knight Games |
| aka "That F*K*G company!" |
|+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++|

by **Ron Smi** » Fri, 20 May 1994 20:08:41

dan> (Win Bent) writes:

dan> : Also to note, is that unlike the rest of Unix, none of the
dan> newer versions : of crisp past 2.2.e (many years old) have
dan> the source released. I personally : don't like the idea of
dan> taking all the source of a decent program proprietary. : A
dan> truly free (GPL'd) systems like Linux shouldn't be ruined by
dan> "non-free" : software. (I don't run motif on Linux either)

dan> Grow up.

dan> +--------------------------------------+

What is the difficulty here? If you like it buy it, If you don't
don't, But stop whining! Be glad people are bringing more and more
products to Linux!!
--

Ron Smits

/*-( My opinions are my opinions, My boss's opinions are his opinions )-*/
/*-( They might not be the same )-*/

Very Computer

BRIEF/vi Compatible GUI Text Editor

BRIEF/vi Compatible GUI Text Editor

BRIEF/vi Compatible GUI Text Editor

BRIEF/vi Compatible GUI Text Editor

BRIEF/vi Compatible GUI Text Editor

BRIEF/vi Compatible GUI Text Editor

BRIEF/vi Compatible GUI Text Editor

BRIEF/vi Compatible GUI Text Editor

BRIEF/vi Compatible GUI Text Editor

BRIEF/vi Compatible GUI Text Editor

BRIEF/vi Compatible GUI Text Editor

BRIEF/vi Compatible GUI Text Editor