Motif 2.1, glibc, RH5

Motif 2.1, glibc, RH5

Post by Andy Jefferso » Sun, 26 Apr 1998 04:00:00



Has anyone tried RedHat Motif 2.1 with RH5, glibc ?
I've had SWiM Motif 2.0 for about 3 yrs and it works fine on a libc5 system
I couldn't get it to work reliably on RH5 (glibc) in terms of building apps
and as a result of many statements on RedHat's site (amongst others) about
Motif 2.0/libc not being able to work on glibc, bought RH Motif 2.1 the
other day.

It basically has *all sorts of problems*.
a). xmcd (RedHat RPM) no longer works on RH5 - it works OK with my SWiM
    Motif 2.0 on the system. It may be that xmcd was built with Motif 2, but
    xmcd is a RH RPM, so I'd expect it to function.
b). mxterm (from a tgz file) no longer works - it works OK with SWiM Motif2.0
c). mxMail (an application of my own) no longer works reliably - when open
    say the fourth/fifth window, I get
Warning: Widget class (null) version mismatch (recompilation needed):
widget 344 vs. intrinsics 11006.

What ?

d). xmkmf generates erroneous Makefile's - just try it on the provided
    demos that come with RH Motif. If you try make, you get
Makefile:636: *** missing separator.  Stop.

with the line

MSimpleUilTarget(periodic)

e). If I link anything statically (including libc.a), it just SEGV's at
startup. This is using the included demo programs, not anything elaborate
that may be buggy.

It basically *doesn't work* with glibc reliably. If RH support don't come
up with anything, then it's going back.

Anyone got any ideas ?

TIA
--
Andy Jefferson

 
 
 

Motif 2.1, glibc, RH5

Post by Rod Smi » Sun, 26 Apr 1998 04:00:00


[Posted and mailed]



Quote:> Has anyone tried RedHat Motif 2.1 with RH5, glibc ?
> I've had SWiM Motif 2.0 for about 3 yrs and it works fine on a libc5 system
> I couldn't get it to work reliably on RH5 (glibc) in terms of building apps
> and as a result of many statements on RedHat's site (amongst others) about
> Motif 2.0/libc not being able to work on glibc, bought RH Motif 2.1 the
> other day.

SWiM 2.0 works pretty well on my Red Hat 5.0 system.  The only problem
I've had is that file open dialog boxes don't show the files in a
directory, and I've got that problem with some non-Motif apps, too, so I
suspect it's something else in the system doing strange things.  I've
heard horror stories about other versions of Motif with glibc, though.

Quote:> It basically has *all sorts of problems*.
> a). xmcd (RedHat RPM) no longer works on RH5 - it works OK with my SWiM
>     Motif 2.0 on the system. It may be that xmcd was built with Motif 2, but
>     xmcd is a RH RPM, so I'd expect it to function.

First, it's important to distinguish between RPMs put out by Red Hat
itself and RPMs put out by others.  RPMs found in the "contrib" directory
are NOT Red Hat's creations, though they are on Red Hat's site.  I just
did a quick search of my Red Hat 5.0 CD, and couldn't find anything in
either contrib or RedHat/RPMS that matched "*xmcd*", so I suspect you got
this someplace else, or it's a recent addition (my CD is fairly elderly,
as RH 5.0 CDs go).

Second, even if it's an "official" Red Hat RPM, keep in mind that they
can't update everything at once.  It's possible that the RPM has been
floating around since pre-5.0 days, or at least pre-Motif-2.1.

The best way to get it working with your new Motif is probably to
recompile it yourself.  Personally, this is what I do with most Motif
apps, anyhow -- they're often available only in static form, or the
dynamic version is linked against the wrong version, or the dynamic
version has other huge libraries that are statically linked, or whatever.

Quote:> b). mxterm (from a tgz file) no longer works - it works OK with SWiM Motif2.0
> c). mxMail (an application of my own) no longer works reliably - when open
>     say the fourth/fifth window, I get
> Warning: Widget class (null) version mismatch (recompilation needed):
> widget 344 vs. intrinsics 11006.

> What ?

The problems you're reporting here are things I've run across when trying
to use a binary linked against one version of Motif (e.g., 1.2) with
another (e.g., 2.0).  It doesn't surprise me that there are similar
problems when upgrading to 2.1 on a system that's laden with 2.0 dynamic
executables.  Try recompiling these programs.

If you're saying that you *HAVE* recompiled, and that you still get these
problems, then I'd say it's likely incompatibilities in the 2.1 API vs.
that in 2.0.  You'll have to re-code the programs to get around the
problems.  This is a disappointment, but hardly unheard-of.

Another thing to look out for is conflicting libraries, include files, or
whatever.  SWiM is a non-RPM product;  IIRC, the install program just
dumps everything in the directories where it expects them to go and leaves
an installation record in a text file somewhere.  The best way to upgrade
to an RPM-based version of a package that's previously been installed in
that way is to manually track down and remove every file installed by the
non-RPM installer, modify back any init files that were modified, and then
do the RPM install.  If you leave the old libraries lying around, there's
no telling what might happen.

--
Rod Smith                                 Author of:

http://www.users.fast.net/~rodsmith       "OS/2 Soundcard Summary"
NOTE: Remove the digit and following word from my address to mail me

 
 
 

Motif 2.1, glibc, RH5

Post by Andy Jefferso » Sun, 26 Apr 1998 04:00:00





>> Has anyone tried RedHat Motif 2.1 with RH5, glibc ?
>> I've had SWiM Motif 2.0 for about 3 yrs and it works fine on a libc5 system
>> I couldn't get it to work reliably on RH5 (glibc) in terms of building apps
>> and as a result of many statements on RedHat's site (amongst others) about
>> Motif 2.0/libc not being able to work on glibc, bought RH Motif 2.1 the
>> other day.
> SWiM 2.0 works pretty well on my Red Hat 5.0 system.  The only problem
> I've had is that file open dialog boxes don't show the files in a
> directory, and I've got that problem with some non-Motif apps, too, so I
> suspect it's something else in the system doing strange things.  I've
> heard horror stories about other versions of Motif with glibc, though.

My version of SWiM on precompiled binaries works exactly the same as you
say - re: file prompts not showing files. *If* I build an application, then
the problems start - it builds, but I get 'random' SEGV's. What I really want
is a Motif development environment - so that was the sole point of getting
2.1 (2.1 actually removes some stuff that I like ...)

Quote:>> It basically has *all sorts of problems*.
>> a). xmcd (RedHat RPM) no longer works on RH5 - it works OK with my SWiM
>>     Motif 2.0 on the system. It may be that xmcd was built with Motif 2, but
>>     xmcd is a RH RPM, so I'd expect it to function.
> First, it's important to distinguish between RPMs put out by Red Hat
> itself and RPMs put out by others.  RPMs found in the "contrib" directory
> are NOT Red Hat's creations, though they are on Red Hat's site.  I just
> did a quick search of my Red Hat 5.0 CD, and couldn't find anything in
> either contrib or RedHat/RPMS that matched "*xmcd*", so I suspect you got
> this someplace else, or it's a recent addition (my CD is fairly elderly,
> as RH 5.0 CDs go).

xmcd is actually on RedHat's site, but you have to delve a bit to find it.
It is actually on my RH5 CD (LSL).
I agree that rebuilding it myself is the best way, *but* bearing in mind
the other problems of building my own apps, I don't hold out much hope
of getting it to work as glibc/Motif is now.

Quote:>> b). mxterm (from a tgz file) no longer works - it works OK with SWiM Motif2.0
>> c). mxMail (an application of my own) no longer works reliably - when open
>>     say the fourth/fifth window, I get
>> Warning: Widget class (null) version mismatch (recompilation needed):
>> widget 344 vs. intrinsics 11006.
>> What ?
> If you're saying that you *HAVE* recompiled,

Yes indeedy.

Quote:> and that you still get these
> problems, then I'd say it's likely incompatibilities in the 2.1 API vs.
> that in 2.0.  You'll have to re-code the programs to get around the
> problems.  This is a disappointment, but hardly unheard-of.

The problem shows up on creating a widget, and I am *not* passing in a NULL
widget class (I am actually passing maybe xmPushButtonWidgetClass). The API
has not changed for that call (XtVaCreateManagedWidget)

Quote:> Another thing to look out for is conflicting libraries, include files, or
> whatever.  SWiM is a non-RPM product;  IIRC, the install program just
> dumps everything in the directories where it expects them to go and leaves
> an installation record in a text file somewhere.
> If you leave the old libraries lying around, there's
> no telling what might happen.

I've got SWiM on the machine, *but* when I installed that I put in (what I
consider a more sensible location of) /usr/Motif, whereas RedHat Motif 2.1
just dumps it all in the /usr/X11R6 directory (!). I am running the RedHat
Motif 2.1 with no way of building/linking/loading the SWiM stuff - i.e
removed the lines in /etc/ld.so.conf - so I consider it a 'clean' Motif 2.1
environment.

Thanks for your reply, but I'm still looking for a solution - I've heard
of problems with Motif 2.1 and glibc recently on comp.windows.x.motif
To me, the fact that if you build *any* app as static with libc.a and tryi
to run it, and it SEGV's even before it gets into 'main' then there are
serious problems.

--
Andy Jefferson

 
 
 

Motif 2.1, glibc, RH5

Post by Nhi Van » Mon, 27 Apr 1998 04:00:00




>> and that you still get these
>> problems, then I'd say it's likely incompatibilities in the 2.1 API vs.
>> that in 2.0.  You'll have to re-code the programs to get around the
>> problems.  This is a disappointment, but hardly unheard-of.

>The problem shows up on creating a widget, and I am *not* passing in a NULL
>widget class (I am actually passing maybe xmPushButtonWidgetClass). The API
>has not changed for that call (XtVaCreateManagedWidget)

There is a fundimental problem with glibc, RedHat 5 and Motif 2.1,
even if you get it working it still fails with 'unknown char in font'
or some such rubbish.

I've noticed this with my apps, with a Motif library I compiled up
myself from source. It worked under RedHat 4.2 with an early
glibc. Everything is consistant (ie I've built everything from scratch
on RedHat 5.0

Until they get this bug out of glibc, I am not a happy bunny.

Quote:

>--
>Andy Jefferson

richard.
--
Richard M. Offer        Widget FAQ --> http://reality.sgi.com/widgetFAQ
MTS-Core Design (Motif)
___________________________________________http://reality.sgi.com/offer
 
 
 

Motif 2.1, glibc, RH5

Post by Ramiro Estrug » Wed, 29 Apr 1998 04:00:00



> There is a fundimental problem with glibc, RedHat 5 and Motif 2.1,
> even if you get it working it still fails with 'unknown char in font'
> or some such rubbish.

> I've noticed this with my apps, with a Motif library I compiled up
> myself from source. It worked under RedHat 4.2 with an early
> glibc. Everything is consistant (ie I've built everything from scratch
> on RedHat 5.0

> Until they get this bug out of glibc, I am not a happy bunny.

> richard.
> --
> Richard M. Offer        Widget FAQ --> http://reality.sgi.com/widgetFAQ
> MTS-Core Design (Motif)
> ___________________________________________http://reality.sgi.com/offer

While working on mozilla/communicator, i've found that linking with
'-lBrokenLocale -lXm' instead of '-lXm' on redhat 5.0 fixes a lot of the
locate related problems.

-re

 
 
 

Motif 2.1, glibc, RH5

Post by Jeff Galya » Sun, 03 May 1998 04:00:00



> Thanks for your reply, but I'm still looking for a solution - I've heard
> of problems with Motif 2.1 and glibc recently on comp.windows.x.motif
> To me, the fact that if you build *any* app as static with libc.a and tryi
> to run it, and it SEGV's even before it gets into 'main' then there are
> serious problems.

Hmm... Are the apps that are segfaulting linked against *old* libc
(5.x)? I know that a fair number of programs linked against any libc
other than 5.3.12 will segfault on RH5 systems. Also, the glibc 2.0.7
RPM on Red Hat's site segfaulted like crazy on my RH5 system when I
tried to start X, so I went back to glibc 2.0.6, and that fixed that...

I've had no problems at all with Motif 2.1 on my RH5 glibc 2.0.6 system
(I compiled glibc myself, Motif installed from RPMs). My only issue with
Motif 2.1 is that I can't use xpms for icons. Otherwise, everything's
running fine.

Another thing you might look at is the version of make you're running:
according to the FSF README file in the glibc 2.0.6 source distribution,
make 3.76 is buggy and tends to create compilation errors in large
projects (i.e.: glibc, Motif, X11, etc.). Switching to make 3.75 (FSF's
recommended version) *may* help. You may also want to upgrade to a newer
gcc (such as 2.8.1) if you're using the "stock" gcc that ships with RH5.
It may take a while to build, but believe me, it's worth it. I've had
far fewer problems with builds since I started using make 3.75 and gcc
2.8.1. Of course, you have to update your glibc to 2.0.6 and your other
standard libraries for best results. Your mileage may vary.

--

========================================================================

Jeff Galyan
http://www.anamorphic.com

 
 
 

Motif 2.1, glibc, RH5

Post by Andy Jefferso » Mon, 04 May 1998 04:00:00



> Hmm... Are the apps that are segfaulting linked against *old* libc
> (5.x)? I know that a fair number of programs linked against any libc
> other than 5.3.12 will segfault on RH5 systems. Also, the glibc 2.0.7
> RPM on Red Hat's site segfaulted like crazy on my RH5 system when I
> tried to start X, so I went back to glibc 2.0.6, and that fixed that...
> I've had no problems at all with Motif 2.1 on my RH5 glibc 2.0.6 system
> (I compiled glibc myself, Motif installed from RPMs). My only issue with
> Motif 2.1 is that I can't use xpms for icons. Otherwise, everything's
> running fine.
> Another thing you might look at is the version of make you're running:
> according to the FSF README file in the glibc 2.0.6 source distribution,
> make 3.76 is buggy and tends to create compilation errors in large
> projects (i.e.: glibc, Motif, X11, etc.). Switching to make 3.75 (FSF's
> recommended version) *may* help. You may also want to upgrade to a newer
> gcc (such as 2.8.1) if you're using the "stock" gcc that ships with RH5.
> It may take a while to build, but believe me, it's worth it. I've had
> far fewer problems with builds since I started using make 3.75 and gcc
> 2.8.1. Of course, you have to update your glibc to 2.0.6 and your other
> standard libraries for best results. Your mileage may vary.

Thanks. I'm actually using glibc 2.07-7, make 3.76.1. The problems of
linking static apps turns out that gcc/g++ *need* the -static option
otherwise they will link in the static *and* shared glibc's !! This
wasn't required for libc5 so I hadn't got that enabled - the problem
of immediate SEGV's goes away with this.

The xmkmf problem turned out that the documentation with the Motif
demo's is wrong and you need 'xmkmf -a' not 'xmkmf' - with this change
you can build the provided Motif apps.

As far as the remaining problems, if I build any Motif app statically
file selection dialogs show no file names - but they add spaces where
the files should be ! If I build dynamically, at various points I get
random SEGV's still with the same message as per the original post.
I'm using the -fPIC on compiles and adding a -shared on building the
shared library - anyone know if anything else is needed to build shared
libs with glibc etc ?

I've since sent Motif 2.1 back and got a full refund - I'll work with
my existing SWiM Motif 2.01 since that provides Workspace management,
CSText widget, Panning in the window manager, etc etc that is taken
out in 2.1 (that's progress).
--
Andy Jefferson

 
 
 

Motif 2.1, glibc, RH5

Post by Andy Jefferso » Mon, 04 May 1998 04:00:00




>> Another thing you might look at is the version of make you're running:
>> according to the FSF README file in the glibc 2.0.6 source distribution,
>> make 3.76 is buggy and tends to create compilation errors in large
>> projects (i.e.: glibc, Motif, X11, etc.). Switching to make 3.75 (FSF's
>> recommended version) *may* help. You may also want to upgrade to a newer
>> gcc (such as 2.8.1) if you're using the "stock" gcc that ships with RH5.
>> It may take a while to build, but believe me, it's worth it. I've had
>> far fewer problems with builds since I started using make 3.75 and gcc
>> 2.8.1. Of course, you have to update your glibc to 2.0.6 and your other
>> standard libraries for best results. Your mileage may vary.
> Thanks. I'm actually using glibc 2.07-7, make 3.76.1. The problems of
> linking static apps turns out that gcc/g++ *need* the -static option
> otherwise they will link in the static *and* shared glibc's !!

I forgot to mention. I'm using gcc 2.7.2.3-8. I'll maybe have a look at 2.8.
Any idea what other things need changing to go to this ?
--
Andy Jefferson
 
 
 

Motif 2.1, glibc, RH5

Post by Nhi Van » Tue, 05 May 1998 04:00:00





[snip]

Quote:

>I've since sent Motif 2.1 back and got a full refund - I'll work with
>my existing SWiM Motif 2.01 since that provides Workspace management,
>CSText widget, Panning in the window manager, etc etc that is taken
>out in 2.1 (that's progress).

My personal opinion is that that was a bad move, Motif 2.0 is dead and
has been for a long time, if you write any code that uses the features
(CSText etc), you'll never be able to port your code to a newer version
of Motif and your application will be unusable by anyone who isn't
running Linux/*BSD*.

Quote:>--
>Andy Jefferson

richard.
--
Richard M. Offer        Widget FAQ --> http://reality.sgi.com/widgetFAQ
MTS-Core Design (Motif)
___________________________________________http://reality.sgi.com/offer
 
 
 

Motif 2.1, glibc, RH5

Post by Andy Jefferso » Tue, 05 May 1998 04:00:00




> [snip]
>>I've since sent Motif 2.1 back and got a full refund - I'll work with
>>my existing SWiM Motif 2.01 since that provides Workspace management,
>>CSText widget, Panning in the window manager, etc etc that is taken
>>out in 2.1 (that's progress).
> My personal opinion is that that was a bad move, Motif 2.0 is dead and
> has been for a long time, if you write any code that uses the features
> (CSText etc), you'll never be able to port your code to a newer version
> of Motif and your application will be unusable by anyone who isn't
> running Linux/*BSD*.

I agree with the general conclusion that writing with Motif 2.0 *could*
lead to problems porting code to other platforms. The simple fact is that
I have 2 machines - one with libc5, and the other glibc. The glibc version
of 2.1 doesn't work reliably, whilst the libc5 one does (and I have Motif 2.0
on that already). I'm personally *not* prepared to pay ~100 for a non-
reliable product. Sending Motif 2.1 back asap results in a full refund since
it's "not fit for purpose". The decision is simply one of reliability
against portability. When glibc/Motif problems are resolved, I'll reassess.
--
Andy Jefferson
 
 
 

1. COMMERCIAL: Motif 2.1 (glibc, libc) is here!


Hi,

i looked at both Web-Servers. LSL is offering very old Swim-Motif
CDs, NC offers Motif for an NT-Unix.

None of them had a newer Release of Motif for Linux. Am I too
stupid or what is going wrong ?

Thanks
  Christoph
--
Immer guenstige Linux und Motif CD's. Infos auf http://cdshop.niederrhein.de/


2. XF86 and E3000 Mother Board with RageII+

3. RH5 + Motif 2.1 = rpm failure

4. 2.0.35 and objdump ?

5. glibc 2.1 and glibc 2.2

6. List of CD-ROM Vendors

7. glibc 2.0 or glibc 2.1

8. problem with gnumalloc??

9. glibc 2.1/glibc 1.99

10. Upgrading from glibc 2.1 to glibc 2.2

11. Can primary glibc 2.1.x coexist with non-primary glibc 2.2.x WRT shared binaries?

12. Upgrading from glibc 2.1 to glibc 2.2

13. Upgrading 1.3.x/Motif 2.0 system to 2.0.33/Motif 2.1 -- any problems/gotchas?