Very Computer

Well, I'm glad you're having fun learning linux. I sure did, and am. :)

Quote:

> I do have a couple (actually 3) questions on some things I have been wondering
> about:

> 1.  Everything I have read says NOT to be "root".  I therefor have set up a

Quote:> normal user account and try to use that whenever possible.  However, it seems
> that so much of what I need to do can only be done as root, and even when I
> attempt to su the root commands, that does no good.  Some things can only be
> done as "root", as far as I know (such as dialing and* up with my ISP
> with ppp-on and ppp-off, mounting and unmounting zip disks and floppies and
> cdroms).  What do you experienced users do?  Are you constantly logging in and

Mounting filesystems can be done if your fstab has the "users" option. Cdrom,
floppy (use mtools for dos junk), zip (probably) can all be done this way.

Really, the only thing that _must_ be done as root is shutdown. Or, you can
just be "inelegant" and hit CTRL-ALT-DEL, and wait till the system says
"Rebooting..." Since I use xdm, I made a tcl/tk script with shutdown/restart
buttons that will allow anyone w/o root access to shutdown/restart the system
from console. Works nicely.

Quote:> out to accomplish tasks?  Sure, if I only need to log in and type something,
> logging in as a normal user works fine, but I am constantly exploring, and I
> imagine that most Linux users are doing more than typing text files in their
> home directory. ;-)

Quote:

> 2.  I have Paul Volkerding's excellent installation and configuration manual,

I dunno a great Linux book, but I would suggest you get a Unix book first.
Linux books tend to just cover various linux-specific features, and it
looks like U need to learn about Unix in general a bit.

In fact, long before I knew about Linux, I read Unix books, 'cause I thought
it was so cool and "elegant". :) :)

Quote:

> 3.  I have seen in multiple places warnings about using some shell commands on

Hmmm... never seen these... JOOC, what are some of them? Use mtools for
floppies,
yes. Zips, like I said, I have no idea.

<snip>

Hope this helps a little.

.oGMo.

Personally, I don't have a modem - I use ppp to make my two PC's
communicate
and it's kept alive by the cron demon. But I'm sure ppp can be set up so
that
root doesn't have to start it. Have you read the man pages thoroughly?
Mounting
disks can be done by normal users if the /etc/fstab file contains the
option
"user" (see man mount for more details).

As for exploring, DON'T DO IT AS ROOT. I have a user called "tester" who
is
used exactly for that. For example, tester might be logged on one VT
with
root on another: root edits the config files for a program and tester
actually
runs the program.

     David A. Madore

     http://www.veryComputer.com/:8080/home/madore/index.html.en)

I run PPP using a normal user. It works perfectly well.
N.

: root doesn't have to start it. Have you read the man pages thoroughly?
: Mounting
: disks can be done by normal users if the /etc/fstab file contains the
: option
: "user" (see man mount for more details).

: As for exploring, DON'T DO IT AS ROOT. I have a user called "tester" who
: is
: used exactly for that. For example, tester might be logged on one VT
: with
: root on another: root edits the config files for a program and tester
: actually
: runs the program.

:      David A. Madore

:      http://www.eleves.ens.fr:8080/home/madore/index.html.en)

--
--

"Power corrupts.  Absolute power is kind of neat"
                -- John Lehman, Secretary of the Navy 1981-1987

Quote:>Hello,

:snip:

>1.  Everything I have read says NOT to be "root".  I therefor have set up a
>normal user account and try to use that whenever possible.  However, it seems
>that so much of what I need to do can only be done as root, and even when I
>attempt to su the root commands, that does no good.  Some things can only be
>done as "root", as far as I know (such as dialing and* up with my ISP
>with ppp-on and ppp-off, mounting and unmounting zip disks and floppies and
>cdroms).  What do you experienced users do?  Are you constantly logging in and
>out to accomplish tasks?  Sure, if I only need to log in and type something,
>logging in as a normal user works fine, but I am constantly exploring, and I
>imagine that most Linux users are doing more than typing text files in their
>home directory. ;-)

/dev/hda1  /mnt/dosc  msdos  defaults,noauto,user 0 0

This allows any user to mount an umount /dev/hda1 with the command
mount /mnt/dosc

-> man mount

If anything else fails -> man su, man sudo (sudo may not be installed on your
system; my Slackware days are long gone, look for it on your favourite sunsite
mirror).

Quote:>2.  I have Paul Volkerding's excellent installation and configuration manual,
>which has worked great for getting up and running.  However, I would like to
>get another text which focuses more on understanding Linux itself; i.e. what
>is involved in the boot process?; how do I customize Linux and X?; etc.  I
>bought Slackware Linux Unleashed, but it tends to focus quite a bit on
>programming (which may be nice down the road a way, but not now).  Does anyone
>have a reccomendation for a good beginner-intermediate level Linux book?

Quote:>3.  I have seen in multiple places warnings about using some shell commands on
>msdos disks.  I understand that it is possible to hose you msdos/vfat disks if
>you are not careful.  Unfortunately, I am not clear on exactly what it is that
>you do to hose your fat disks.  Therefore, I am currently nervous about my zip
>disks, since hosing 100m of data hurts a lot more than hosing a little floppy.
> Do I need to be using mtools on the zips?  Or is just mounting them as #mount
>-t vfat /dev/sda4 /zip and using them normally ok?

--
This life has been a test. If it had been an actual life, you would have
received instructions on where to go and what to do.

So you can keep a root account open on 1 and mess around as a normal
user on another (switching instantly between them as necessary).  Also
come in handy for keeping /usr/src/linux/Documentation/Configure.help
open on one while you config kernel on another.  Just keep track of
who you are.  I use F1, 2 for root and F3+ for others.

You can also set up ppp to dial and autologin for any non-local IP or
name request from any user (telnet, ncftp, netscape, etc.).  Try
'locate ppp' (run 'updatedb' first if you have not).  Though I haven't
figured out how to get ppp-off to run by anyone other than root.  See
Linux link on my home page for autologin related files.

(snip)

--

PGP Public Key available on request

[mostly deleted]

Quote:>The main difference between logging in as root and using su [root] is
>that
>in the latter case the environment variables don't get set up as they
>should.

Quote:>     David A. Madore

Just my 2 cents worth...  I have found the book Essential UNIX
Administration (the one with the Armadillo on the cover) to be
fantastic.  I come from a real heavy Novell background, so I found some
of the Linux/UNIX stuff pretty daunting.  But Essential UNIX
Administration covers a LOT of flavors of UNIX, including Linux, and the
author really goes in to the philosophy  of UNIX admin a lot.

I found it very enlightening.

Hope this is of assistance to you.

Thomas Cameron, CNE, MCP
Three-Six* Technical Services, Inc.
Remove the exclamation point at the beginning of my e-mail address to
reach me that way.

[snip]

Quote:

> 2.  I have Paul Volkerding's excellent installation and configuration
manual,
> which has worked great for getting up and running.  However, I would like
to
> get another text which focuses more on understanding Linux itself; i.e.
what
> is involved in the boot process?; how do I customize Linux and X?; etc.
I
> bought Slackware Linux Unleashed, but it tends to focus quite a bit on
> programming (which may be nice down the road a way, but not now).  Does
anyone
> have a reccomendation for a good beginner-intermediate level Linux book?

I hope that some of the authors of Linux/Unix books are reading this
post...Every time I see a new Linux book, it closely resembles a REPRINT of
the GREAT books by Matt Welsh and Olaf sorry-I-forgot-your-last-name.  It
seems that the "authors" of the other Linux books know little more than how
to print out the HOW-TO's, edit (=assemble) them into a book, and publish
with LITTLE value added.

It would be nice if someone would offer a book as suggested above including
details  how to customize and maintain a Linux system.  For example, is
there a good book that includes a detailed chapter pertaining to the
customization of the X Window environment directed to the end user and not
the X Windows Programmer?  What's needed are philosphies of running,
customizing, and maintaining, not just how to get a "HELLO WORLD" system.
The documentation included on any LINUX distribution can tell you that.

Thanks,
   Ben

: > normal user account and try to use that whenever possible.  However, it seems
: > that so much of what I need to do can only be done as root, and even when I
: > attempt to su the root commands, that does no good.  Some things can only be
: > done as "root", as far as I know (such as dialing and* up with my ISP
: > with ppp-on and ppp-off, mounting and unmounting zip disks and floppies and
: > cdroms).  What do you experienced users do?  Are you constantly logging in and

FWIW, I haven't gotten around to setting up a user account either. I've
been using Linux for a few months, a few hours a night, and so far the
worst thing I've done is, from "/", "mv * /root", to move some files out
of the root directory, forgetting that it moves directories as well.
This was easy to fix by booting with a rescue disk and moving everything
back.

Hopefully sometime soon, I will get around to setting up a user account. I
agree, that most of the things I do, either need to be done as root
(uprading libraries, customizing kernel, installing linux-rt, using POSIX
real-time scheduling, installing software, fiddling with modules, changing
partitions around,
ps -ax, etc).  Point taken that most things things can probably be done
without being root, but I'm not loooking forward to that big chunk of
learning.

Larry

As the newbie who posted, I'd just like to thank all those who have answered
my posting, through usenet and via email.   (I've received over 50 email
responses alone, all friendly and helpful.)  It is really refreshing to see
the level of support in the Linux community.  I've not seen this type of peer
support since my days of OS/2 2.x and the Compuserve forums  (including the
pride in one's OS and the eagerness to genuinely help those who choose to
learn about it.)  It comes as a welcome breath of fresh air after dealing with
NT during the "day".

Thanks again to all for the help.

-----------------------------------------------------------
Aaron Weis
Dovetail Design & Development, Inc.

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"Every man's conscience is vile and depraved.  You cannot depend on it to be your guide, when it's you who must keep it satisfied."  [Bob Dylan]