Very Computer

by **Phillip Tolan** » Fri, 08 Mar 1996 04:00:00

I had Slackware 2.2.1 from Morse installed and I just recently got Redhat
2.1 from Infomagic. IMHO, Redhat is the better distribution, but it does
have its annoyances :-)
Reasons:
1. Redhat has a slick setup program, but I was trying to do a
"non-standard" setup and setup kept puking on me :-( I had just
repartitioned my hdd, and setup kept trying to write to the hdd *before*
it was formatted.

2. So far I like the rpm and glint, and there is nothing ike that in SW

3. SW seemed to offer more options at setup time. In particular, I only
waned to install portions of each package and SW setup prompted for each
program to be installed for each package. Afaik, RH only allows you to
pick each package, and doesn't let you go back and choose which programs
out of each package to install. However, using glint it is fairly easy
to go back and uninstall, but I would rather not have to install progs I
don't want at all.

4 This may be a difference between the 1.2.8 and 1.2.13 kernels, but it
seems that the RH distrbution takes more memory. I ran X312D on both and
I *rarely* ran out of memory w/ 16M and no swap. With RH, I decided to
use a swap partition but had problems setting it up and w/ nothing but
control panel and glint (and of course fvwm) open in X I kept running out
of memory. With my previous setup I had Seyon open and connected, Emacs
running, several Xterms open and several other misc programs running and
had memory to spare. Needless to say, this is not possible now :-(

Some of these hings may be related to my setup, but I ust say that so far
I recommend Redhat. Of course, the beauty of the Infomagic distribution
is that it has both distributions plus Debian...so if you are thinking of
buying a new cd...get infomagic, its worth it!

-phil
Visit my web page at http://www.veryComputer.com/~ciaran

/************************************************************************
* Phillip Toland * As the water flows over the bridge, *
* Computer Consultant, * As we walk on the floodland *
**inson College * As we walk on the water *
* 87 W Main St., apt 2 * we forgive as we forget *
* Newville PA 17241 * Rain from Heaven. *
* 717-776-4717 * --The Sisters of Mercy *

************************************************************************/

by **Donnie Barn** » Fri, 08 Mar 1996 04:00:00

>I had Slackware 2.2.1 from Morse installed and I just recently got Redhat
>2.1 from Infomagic. IMHO, Redhat is the better distribution, but it does
>have its annoyances :-)
>Reasons:
>1. Redhat has a slick setup program, but I was trying to do a
>"non-standard" setup and setup kept puking on me :-( I had just
>repartitioned my hdd, and setup kept trying to write to the hdd *before*
>it was formatted.

That sounds a little odd to me...are you sure? (email privately about
it if you want...)

Quote:>2. So far I like the rpm and glint, and there is nothing ike that in SW

Yeah, they're cool.

Quote:>3. SW seemed to offer more options at setup time. In particular, I only
>waned to install portions of each package and SW setup prompted for each
>program to be installed for each package. Afaik, RH only allows you to
>pick each package, and doesn't let you go back and choose which programs
>out of each package to install. However, using glint it is fairly easy
>to go back and uninstall, but I would rather not have to install progs I
>don't want at all.

The text install doesn't let you do package by package selection. Our
next release does, however.

Quote:>4 This may be a difference between the 1.2.8 and 1.2.13 kernels, but it
>seems that the RH distrbution takes more memory. I ran X312D on both and
>I *rarely* ran out of memory w/ 16M and no swap. With RH, I decided to
>use a swap partition but had problems setting it up and w/ nothing but
>control panel and glint (and of course fvwm) open in X I kept running out
>of memory. With my previous setup I had Seyon open and connected, Emacs
>running, several Xterms open and several other misc programs running and
>had memory to spare. Needless to say, this is not possible now :-(

It's an ELF vs. a.out thing. You'd see exactly the same problem had you
used Slackware 3.0. Email me if you have specific problems setting up
swap still...it's fairly straighforward.

--Donnie

--

* See my WWW page for items currently for sale (486 Laptop now available) *
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From _Things You'd NEVER Expect A Southerner To Say_ by Vic Henley:
*** You think I've got too many beer lights in my gameroom?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

by **Erik Troa** » Sat, 09 Mar 1996 04:00:00

> _little_ packaging/visual design? (B.t.w., a good commercial art
> "designer" may be more valuable to you than a real "artist"!!

Easy. We don't have the money to spend on an artist right now. We have
(many) higher priorities for our free cash (if you think we're getting
rich, you're a bit off from the truth). We keep hoping one of our loyal
users will submit some better visuals :-)

Quote:> While I'm bugging you, let me ask you a question. I've installed only
> in part. I'm up and running at the moment. But I'd like to reinstall.
> Is there any real benefit for shelling out the full $49 for the official
> Red Hat distribution at this time -- or perhaps waiting for the next
> release and then doing it to get newer goodies, the full installation
> manual, etc. When is the next release? And does the "manual" just
> duplicate Welsh/O'Reilly and other resources in most respects? What
> exactly will I get for the extra cash? [Sorry, that looks like 5
> questions now, not one!!!]

1) Don't buy the $49 package. Call 1-800-546-7274 and ask what the cheapest
upgrade is. They can answer all of your questions, including why the
$49 CD might be right for you.

2) We don't preannounce upgrades. Sorry. We haven't released on the Intel
since November though, so draw your own conclusions.

3) The manual for 2.1 and the O'Reilly book are *very* similiar. The manual
for our next release has been enhanced though (and indexed).

4) With the next release, for your cash you'll get:

i) a manual
ii) a Red Hat Live CD (which no one else gives you)
iii) another goody I can't mention but will certainly be
featured in the announcment

That all of your questions? I only anwered four, so let me know if I missed
one.

Erik

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Always hoped that I'd be an apostle. Knew that I would make it if I tried.
Then when we retire we can write the gospels so they'll all talk about
us when we die. - "The Last Supper" from Jesus Christ Superstar

by **Gabriel.Krabb** » Sat, 09 Mar 1996 04:00:00

+++ POSTED and MAILED +++

> (...)

> As a note, Slackware only comes with fdisk on the install disk (which
> doesn't know how to create logical partitions). RedHat, to it's
> credit, does include cfdisk on the rootdisk floppies, which is a win
> if you want more than 4 partitions.

Wow. I can work miracles, created 9 partitions w/ slackware's
rootdisk-fdisk...

Quote:> (...)
> (It may not be an issue for some, but it is for me. I'm
> much more comfortable dealing with gzipped tar archives.)

Bingo. To distribute an rpm package to, say, another sw user, I have to
un-rpm it, find out where it installed itself to and then tgzip it back
up. As easy as shooting yourself in the foot with JCL.....

Quote:> >3. (...) In particular, I only
> >waned to install portions of each package and SW setup prompted for each
> >program to be installed for each package. Afaik, RH only allows you to
> >pick each package, and doesn't let you go back and choose which programs
> >out of each package to install. However, using glint it is fairly easy
> >to go back and uninstall, but I would rather not have to install progs I
> >don't want at all.

Bingo again.

Quote:> Another point where I agree. Installing everything is fine, if you've
> got lots of disk to waste. (...)

And are sure you're prepared to substitute newer things that you already
had...

Quote:
> (...)

> This is not to say I despise RedHat. RedHat has their place, IMHO,
> just not on my machine. RedHat, as it stands now, is NOT a
> distribution for everyone. (...) As it stands
> now, however, I would only recommeny RedHat for systems that have 16M+
> of RAM, and little to no space concerns, especially if you have little
> experience with UNIX administration. Me and my small system, however,
> will just have to wait.

So will mine, with lots of hdd and, so far, enough ram at 24megs, but an
admin's dislike for not being trusted to choose precisely what he wants.

Gabriel

#include <disclaimer.h>

by **Erik Tro** » Sat, 09 Mar 1996 04:00:00

>After using slackware for several years, I, was a bit confused at where
>redhat put things. (/var/adm no longer exists)... The rc.d files are a

/var/adm was moved by the FSSTND. The latest Slackware should use /var/log
as well.

Quote:>The major problem with the RedHat distribution is the lack of
>openwindows...

This will be in the next release. A RPM 2.0 package of xview is in the
devel tree on ftp.redhat.com.

Quote:>One suggestion to RedHat software for their next release: Include a
>Converting from Slackware howto that details the differences in
>configuration in the /etc tree.

None of us are that familiar with Slackware (big surprise there, eh?). I
don't think we could do a thorough enough job of this to be helpful.

The biggest difference though is the SysV init style we use. That's documented
somewhere on http://www.redhat.com as a Red Hat Tip document.

Erik

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Always hoped that I'd be an apostle. Knew that I would make it if I tried.
Then when we retire we can write the gospels so they'll all talk about
us when we die. - "The Last Supper" from Jesus Christ Superstar

by **cos..** » Sat, 09 Mar 1996 04:00:00

Subject: Re: Slackware vs. Redhat --opinion
Date: 8 Mar 1996 14:51:38 GMT

[...]

>3) The manual for 2.1 and the O'Reilly book are *very* similiar. The
manual
> for our next release has been enhanced though (and indexed).

Hmm, lemme see here,

About 30 more pages of information, an index, a BUNCH of
updated information, some editing and refinement. Now you get to
guess who did most of the rewrite as well as when it might appear.

Quote:>4) With the next release, for your cash you'll get:

> i) a manual
> ii) a Red Hat Live CD (which no one else gives you)
> iii) another goody I can't mention but will certainly be
> featured in the announcment

I will offer up the clue that the 'goody' is not considered
edible by most humans.

Kit

--

Kit Cosper
Software Engineer
Red Hat Software, Inc.

by **Donnie Barn** » Sat, 09 Mar 1996 04:00:00

Quote:>I Liked the Installation: I installed via X and I liked being able to
>select everything I wanted, then watch ER (unfortunatly it was a repeat),
>and come back to a working linux system.

Ooh...glad to here it was a rerun. I went to see NCSU whip FSU in the
ACC Tourny play in game.

Quote:>After using slackware for several years, I, was a bit confused at where
>redhat put things. (/var/adm no longer exists)... The rc.d files are a
>bit different... I am not saying that slackware was better and that
>RedHat is worse. I'm saying that it is different. Actually, the way
>redhat does the bootup/ loading of daemons seems to be much more
>organized than the way slackware configures it.

/var/adm was hosed by the FSSTND. It's /var/log.

Quote:>The major problem with the RedHat distribution is the lack of
>openwindows...

Got it in the next release.

Quote:>One suggestion to RedHat software for their next release: Include a
>Converting from Slackware howto that details the differences in
>configuration in the /etc tree.

We already have that for the init changes (/etc/rc.d). See
http://www.redhat.com and look at Red Hat -> Support Center ->
Red Hat Tips and look at the Boot Process Tips.

--Donnie

--

* See my WWW page for items currently for sale (486 Laptop now available) *
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From _Things You'd NEVER Expect A Southerner To Say_ by Vic Henley:
*** You think I've got too many beer lights in my gameroom?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

by **Joey He** » Sat, 09 Mar 1996 04:00:00

|Nah - they're color, though one of us is color blind (does that count
|for anything).
|
|Our real problem is we have absoultely no artistic ability. We're such
|bad artists we've given up and rarely try very hard any more <sigh>.
|
|What we really need is a nice, freely reuseable icon collection we can
|"borrow" from.
|
|Erik

How about the 3d_pixmaps package?

Begin3
Title: 3d looking pixmaps for fvwm
Version: 1.0
Entered-date: Sun Nov 19
Description: 3d looking pixmaps for Professional look.
2 packages included, Package 1 with color number
of all icons reduced to the same 100, package 2
contains the plain pixmaps. All pixmaps have the
same size 56x46 !
Keywords: fvwm pixmaps 3dpixmaps

Primary site: pc50.zrz.tu-berlin.de:/pub/3dpixmaps
1123K 3d_pixmaps_1.0.tar.gz
Alternate-site: sunsite.unc.edu:/pub/Linux/X11/window-managers
Original-site: pc50.zrz.tu-berlin.de:/pub/3dpixmaps
1123K 3d_pixmaps_1.0.tar.gz
Platform: Linux, BSDI any plattform that understands pixmaps
Copying-policy: Use freely on your System to show Commercials
we can do it better :)
End

(Correction to LSM, it's on sunsite in /pub/Linux/X11/icons)

Now granted, Redhat is a "Commercial", but I think the author would let you
use them. :-)

I think it'd be nice if redhat came with some fvwm desktop style RPMS. Maybe a
windows-style rpm, a standard fvwm desktop, and a couple of other
various styles. There's an archive of people's fvwmrc's somewhere that would
get you started. Let new users change their desktop style via glint..

(Irrelevant question: is hatteras.redhat.com named after the island in the
Outer Banks of North Carolina?)

[posted & cc'd]

--
#!/usr/bin/perl -lisubstr($_,39+38*sin++$y/9,2)=$s;print# Joey Hess

"How appropriate, you fight like a cow." - - Guybrush Threepwood

by **Donnie Barn** » Sat, 09 Mar 1996 04:00:00

Quote:>|Nah - they're color, though one of us is color blind (does that count
>|for anything).
>|
>|Our real problem is we have absoultely no artistic ability. We're such
>|bad artists we've given up and rarely try very hard any more <sigh>.
>|
>|What we really need is a nice, freely reuseable icon collection we can
>|"borrow" from.

>How about the 3d_pixmaps package?

[ LSM deleted ]

Quote:>(Correction to LSM, it's on sunsite in /pub/Linux/X11/icons)

>Now granted, Redhat is a "Commercial", but I think the author would let you
>use them. :-)

>I think it'd be nice if redhat came with some fvwm desktop style RPMS. Maybe a
>windows-style rpm, a standard fvwm desktop, and a couple of other
>various styles. There's an archive of people's fvwmrc's somewhere that would
>get you started. Let new users change their desktop style via glint..

That's a great idea, but as stated, we suck at designing that
stuff. Now, if someone contributed that kind of thing...<hint hint> ;-)

Quote:>(Irrelevant question: is hatteras.redhat.com named after the island in the
>Outer Banks of North Carolina?)

Yes. It's my fiancee's machine at home. I have a 33.6 dedicated line
to the apartment...we have smokey for our roommate because she's a forestry
major at NCSU, we have hatteras for Ashley because she loves the lighthouse,
and we have bandit as the gateway machine because I love the movie
_Smokey and the Bandit_. Anyone got a copy on Laserdisc you'd like to
sell? :-)

--Donnie

--

* See my WWW page for items currently for sale (486 Laptop now available) *
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From _Things You'd NEVER Expect A Southerner To Say_ by Vic Henley:
*** You think I've got too many beer lights in my gameroom?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

by **br..** » Sun, 10 Mar 1996 04:00:00

Subject: Re: Slackware vs. Redhat --opinion
Date: 9 Mar 1996 22:14:12 GMT

If someone would fill me in on how to make icons, I'd be glad to let
this
be my contribution to the Linux project.

: >I'd also like to add 5) the garishly awful default X setup (ugh. Do
: >you guys all have black and white monitors or something?)

: Nah - they're color, though one of us is color blind (does that count
: for anything).

: Our real problem is we have absoultely no artistic ability. We're such
: bad artists we've given up and rarely try very hard any more <sigh>.

: What we really need is a nice, freely reuseable icon collection we can
: "borrow" from.

: Erik

:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
: Always hoped that I'd be an apostle. Knew that I would make it if
I tried.
: Then when we retire we can write the gospels so they'll all talk
about
: us when we die. - "The Last Supper" from Jesus Christ
Superstar
: | Erik Troan = http://sunsite.unc.edu/ewt/ =

by **Richard Bro** » Sun, 10 Mar 1996 04:00:00

If someone would fill me in on how to make icons, I'd be glad to let this
be my contribution to the Linux project.

: >I'd also like to add 5) the garishly awful default X setup (ugh. Do
: >you guys all have black and white monitors or something?)

: Nah - they're color, though one of us is color blind (does that count
: for anything).

: Our real problem is we have absoultely no artistic ability. We're such
: bad artists we've given up and rarely try very hard any more <sigh>.

: What we really need is a nice, freely reuseable icon collection we can
: "borrow" from.

: Erik

: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
: Always hoped that I'd be an apostle. Knew that I would make it if I tried.
: Then when we retire we can write the gospels so they'll all talk about
: us when we die. - "The Last Supper" from Jesus Christ Superstar

by **Erik Tro** » Tue, 12 Mar 1996 04:00:00

>If someone would fill me in on how to make icons, I'd be glad to let this
>be my contribution to the Linux project.

I normally use xpaint on a 32x32 canvas. That creates a gif, and then
I use giftrans to make it transparent and a perl script I wrote to
make it a Xpm (and preserve the transparent background).

I thus get icons for either tk canvases (gif) or X programs (Xpm's).

Erik

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Always hoped that I'd be an apostle. Knew that I would make it if I tried.
Then when we retire we can write the gospels so they'll all talk about
us when we die. - "The Last Supper" from Jesus Christ Superstar

by **Kit Cosp** » Tue, 12 Mar 1996 04:00:00

[...]

Quote:>most consistent bug is that, at least from scratch, the mkswap step in the
>install always fails, having been handed a bogus swap sizw by the install
>program. I always have to escape to another shell screen and run mkswap by
>hand (good that I can though).

This is a known and documented bug in RH 2.1 (it's in the Red Hat FAQ)
for swap partitions over about 38 MB. There is a new ramdisk2.img on
ftp.redhat.com, or you can do what you have been doing with the manual
mkswap.

[...]

Quote:> Another tidbit, a system with a Sony CDU33 cdrom at the default
>address of 340 will not be correctly autodetected by the RedHat 1.2.13 kernel.
>It first finds (incorrectly) a Sony CDU545 and of course the whole CD install
>fails later... A "linux cdu31a=0x340" is need at boot time.

The autoprobe for the CDU33 in the kernel was causing some
pretty major problems, so it was removed. That's why the boot message
on the install disk says;

Sony 31&33 CD-ROM REQUIRED cdu31a=base_addr,[irq|0][,PAS]

This is also documented in the Red Hat FAQ.

Kit

--

Kit Cosper
Software Engineer
Red Hat Software, Inc.

by **Erik Tro** » Wed, 13 Mar 1996 04:00:00

>|I normally use xpaint on a 32x32 canvas. That creates a gif, and then
>|I use giftrans to make it transparent and a perl script I wrote to
>|make it a Xpm (and preserve the transparent background).

>Could you post or email that script? I've been looking for a way to make
>transparent .xpm's for some time.

I sent this via private email. If anyone else wants it, let me know via
email.

Erik

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Always hoped that I'd be an apostle. Knew that I would make it if I tried.
Then when we retire we can write the gospels so they'll all talk about
us when we die. - "The Last Supper" from Jesus Christ Superstar