Very Computer

by **Cameron L. Spitz** » Wed, 21 Jul 1999 04:00:00

Trying to resume work on LILO mini-HOWTO, on three different Linux
boxes, I notice I have three different, mutually incompatible versions of
sgml-tools. The version currently available at the abandonded sgml-tools
Web site (http://www.sgmltools.org/) compiles on Debian-2.1 but cannot
process the Linux HOWTOs.

Is there a Linux Documentation Project-specific version of
sgml-tools someplace? Where?

What's Docbook? How does it relate to Linuxdoc?

How can I tell sgml-tools utilities to use Linuxdoc instead of
the new and mysterious Docbook format?

Cameron

by **J.H.M. Dassen (R** » Thu, 22 Jul 1999 04:00:00

Quote:>Trying to resume work on LILO mini-HOWTO, on three different Linux boxes, I
>notice I have three different, mutually incompatible versions of
>sgml-tools.

As far as I know, there's only sgml-tools 1 and 2.

Quote:>The version currently available at the abandonded sgml-tools Web site
>(http://www.sgmltools.org/) compiles on Debian-2.1 but cannot process the
>Linux HOWTOs.

Binary packages of both sgml-tools 1 and 2 are available for Debian (at
least in "unstable"; I haven't checked the 2.1 tree).

Quote:>What's Docbook?

DocBook (http://www.oasis-open.org/docbook/) is an SGML DTD for technical
publishing that's much more extensive than Linuxdoc; it's used e.g. in the
production of O'Reilly books. DSSSL stylesheets for use with Jade are
available that can be used to produce HTML, XML, DVI, PS, PDF, RTF and MIF
from DocBook documents.

Quote:>How does it relate to Linuxdoc?

The LDP will be moving away from Linuxdoc to DocBook; there's a migration
script/binary "l2db" in sgml-tools 2.

Quote:>How can I tell sgml-tools utilities to use Linuxdoc instead of the new and
>mysterious Docbook format?

Use sgmltools 1's "sgml2latex" and friends, or convert your Linuxdoc
documents to DocBook with sgmltool 2's "l2db".

HTH,
Ray
--
UNFAIR Term applied to advantages enjoyed by other people which we tried
to cheat them out of and didn't manage. See also DISHONESTY, SNEAKY,
UNDERHAND and JUST LUCKY I GUESS.
- The Hipcrime Vocab by Chad C. Mulligan

by **Cameron L. Spitz** » Thu, 22 Jul 1999 04:00:00

>>Trying to resume work on LILO mini-HOWTO, on three different Linux boxes, I
>>notice I have three different, mutually incompatible versions of
>>sgml-tools.

>As far as I know, there's only sgml-tools 1 and 2.

That's true, but they configure different ways depending on which
libraries and*they find at build time.

Quote:
>>The version currently available at the abandonded sgml-tools Web site
>>(http://www.veryComputer.com/) compiles on Debian-2.1 but cannot process the
>>Linux HOWTOs.

>Binary packages of both sgml-tools 1 and 2 are available for Debian (at
>least in "unstable"; I haven't checked the 2.1 tree).

These vague references are very frustrating. The different Debian
mirrors are laid out different ways. Please give a complete URL.
The package search at www.debian.org shows only sgml-tools 1.0.9-1.
The abandoned Web site www.sgmltools.org says that's obsolete,
but sgml-tools 2.0.2 does not build and has not been packaged.

Quote:
>>What's Docbook?

>DocBook (http://www.veryComputer.com/) is an SGML DTD for technical
>publishing that's much more extensive than Linuxdoc; it's used e.g. in the
>production of O'Reilly books. DSSSL stylesheets for use with Jade are

What's a DSSSL stylesheet? Has the LDP ever used them? Do I have to figure
out what they are and how to install them to revise a Linux mini-HOWTO?

What's Jade? (Besides another software package named with a common dictionary
word to defeat the search engines, that is.)
Debian uses a*distribution called TeTeX.
Sgmltools-2.0.2 comes with a thing called "jade" that takes a hell of a
long time to build. I'm afraid to run the make install, it might clobber
TeTeX, and I'll have another Slackware-like halfway screwed up
gigantic unusable*mess again. Yecch.

Quote:>>How does it relate to Linuxdoc?

>The LDP will be moving away from Linuxdoc to DocBook; there's a migration
>script/binary "l2db" in sgml-tools 2.

Will there be any instrctions to the HOWTO maintainers, or are we all supposed
to figure this out independently? If it's the latter, it seems like
someone has thrown a huge monkeywrench into the Linux Documentation
Project.

Quote:>>How can I tell sgml-tools utilities to use Linuxdoc instead of the new and
>>mysterious Docbook format?

>Use sgmltools 1's "sgml2latex" and friends, or convert your Linuxdoc
>documents to DocBook with sgmltool 2's "l2db".

>HTH,

Is this a joke? What are we supposed to do, really?

Cameron

by **J.H.M. Dassen (R** » Thu, 22 Jul 1999 04:00:00

>>Binary packages of both sgml-tools 1 and 2 are available for Debian (at
>>least in "unstable"; I haven't checked the 2.1 tree).

>These vague references are very frustrating. The different Debian mirrors
>are laid out different ways.

Huh? All Debian mirrors follow the same structure; only the "entry"
directory is different.

Quote:>Please give a complete URL.

ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/unstable/main/binary-i386/text/sgml...
ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/unstable/main/binary-i386/text/sgml...

Quote:>The package search at www.debian.org shows only sgml-tools 1.0.9-1.

The package search defaults to searching "stable" only.

Quote:>The abandoned Web site www.sgmltools.org says that's obsolete, but
>sgml-tools 2.0.2 does not build and has not been packaged.

It has been packaged. As I pointed out, it is in the "unstable" section of
your local Debian mirror.

Quote:>What's a DSSSL stylesheet?

SGML is a language to define markup languages. DSSSL is a language in which
one can specify how an SGML document is to be rendered using a particular
output mechanism (say TeX or HTML).

Quote:>Has the LDP ever used them?

If they are indeed moving to DocBook, most likely yes.

I don't know for sure; I'm not familiar with the LDP except for its output.

Quote:>Do I have to figure out what they are and how to install them to revise a
>Linux mini-HOWTO?

sgml-tools 2's "sgmltools" will use them for you, so you don't have to deal
with them directly. The "sgmltools-2" package for Debian unstable has the
proper dependencies.

Quote:>What's Jade? (Besides another software package named with a common
>dictionary word to defeat the search engines, that is.)

Jade (http://www.veryComputer.com/) is a DSSSL engine on top of the SP suite
(http://www.veryComputer.com/) whose "nsgmls" you may be familiar
with. Consider it a standards-compliant "rendering engine" for SGML.

Quote:>Debian uses a*distribution called TeTeX.
>Sgmltools-2.0.2 comes with a thing called "jade" that takes a hell of a
>long time to build. I'm afraid to run the make install, it might clobber
>TeTeX, and I'll have another Slackware-like halfway screwed up gigantic
>unusable*mess again. Yecch.

Then use the Debian package of "jade" instead, or install to /usr/local.
(Jade itself shouldn't touch your TeX directories, but "jadetex" (the TeX
backend) does).

Quote:>>>How does it relate to Linuxdoc?

>>The LDP will be moving away from Linuxdoc to DocBook; there's a migration
>>script/binary "l2db" in sgml-tools 2.

I was mistaken; it's "ld2db" and it's a backend of sgml-tools 2's
"sgmltools".

Quote:>Will there be any instrctions to the HOWTO maintainers, or are we all
>supposed to figure this out independently?

I don't know. Doesn't the LDP have a mailing list for discussions of issues
like this?

Quote:>>Use sgmltools 1's "sgml2latex" and friends, or convert your Linuxdoc
>>documents to DocBook with sgmltool 2's "l2db".

>>HTH,

>Is this a joke?

Given the level of misunderstanding on Usenet, I always use smileys to
indicate jokes.

Quote:>What are we supposed to do, really?

Keep using the LinuxDoc DTD with sgmltools 1, or migrate to DocBook with
sgmltools 2?

Migration to DocBook works fine for me (on an "unstable" system):
wget http://www.veryComputer.com/
gunzip LILO.sgml
sgmltools -b ld2db LILO.sgml
sgmltools -b dvi LILO.db-sgml
xdvi LILO.dvi

Ray
--
Tevens ben ik van mening dat Nederland overdekt dient te worden.

by **John D. Vern** » Mon, 26 Jul 1999 04:00:00

> Trying to resume work on LILO mini-HOWTO, on three different Linux
> boxes, I notice I have three different, mutually incompatible versions of
> sgml-tools. The version currently available at the abandonded sgml-tools
> Web site (http://www.sgmltools.org/) compiles on Debian-2.1 but cannot
> process the Linux HOWTOs.

> Is there a Linux Documentation Project-specific version of
> sgml-tools someplace? Where?

> What's Docbook? How does it relate to Linuxdoc?

> How can I tell sgml-tools utilities to use Linuxdoc instead of
> the new and mysterious Docbook format?

These are all very good questions that I have not found the answer to --
except, of course, for doning my own research. I've learned to work
backwards from the DTD spec files to find out what the hell sgmltools
wants from a document type.

Docbook is the semi-official DTD (derived from what?) sponsored in part
by O'Reilly & Assoc. It's a more muscular DTD than Linuxdox, and is
designed to be a general-purpose format for creating any kind of report,
book, whitepaper or technical documentation. The DTD look more
complete, and so may side-step some of the weirdisms in the Linuxdoc
DTDs.

The only docs I've seen for SGML-Tools is what is on the abandoned
web-site -- very slim. I've learned more grabbing the raw SGML source
of the exisitng HOWTOs. I also had to backrev to an older version of
SGML-Tools because my current SGML source did not work under Jade.

You will get better answers to this on comp.text.sgml, I think.

John

by **Tom Fawcet** » Tue, 27 Jul 1999 04:00:00

> > Trying to resume work on LILO mini-HOWTO, on three different Linux
> > boxes, I notice I have three different, mutually incompatible versions of
> > sgml-tools. The version currently available at the abandonded sgml-tools
> > Web site (http://www.sgmltools.org/) compiles on Debian-2.1 but cannot
> > process the Linux HOWTOs.

> > Is there a Linux Documentation Project-specific version of
> > sgml-tools someplace? Where?

> > What's Docbook? How does it relate to Linuxdoc?

> > How can I tell sgml-tools utilities to use Linuxdoc instead of
> > the new and mysterious Docbook format?

> These are all very good questions that I have not found the answer to --
> except, of course, for doning my own research. I've learned to work
> backwards from the DTD spec files to find out what the hell sgmltools
> wants from a document type.

I've had similar frustrations trying to get sgml-tools 2.x and Docbook to
work. I haven't been able to.

So I've reverted to version 1.0.9 of sgmltools, which works and supports
Linuxdoc. I haven't converted to Docbook yet, and don't see a reason to
until sgml-tools is picked up again. Last I checked, none of the other
HOWTO authors had started using Docbook either.

Good luck.

-Tom

Very Computer

state of SGML-tools wrt HOWTOs ?

state of SGML-tools wrt HOWTOs ?

state of SGML-tools wrt HOWTOs ?

state of SGML-tools wrt HOWTOs ?

state of SGML-tools wrt HOWTOs ?

state of SGML-tools wrt HOWTOs ?

state of SGML-tools wrt HOWTOs ?