Blade 100 & PC Monitors

Blade 100 & PC Monitors

Post by Matthew Lev » Tue, 03 Apr 2001 03:30:02



Greetings.  Before buying a Blade 100 I'd like someone to clear something up
for me...

What limitations must be born in mind in regard to PC monitor use on the


Thanks,

Matt

 
 
 

Blade 100 & PC Monitors

Post by Matthew Lev » Tue, 03 Apr 2001 10:33:37


Aside from that Rage Pro being a rather crappy video card considering
nowdays quality 32 MB cards can be had for under 100 bucks), in the Blade's
component listing on Sun's site it says that the video card is "Sun PGX64
On-Board Graphics Accelerator."  They are the same thing with a different
name?


Quote:> You shouldn't have any problems.

> Matter of fact if you want to know what the limits are here are the
details.

> ATI Rage Pro (Video chip set on motherboard with 8MB of video RAM)

> You can go to http://www.ati.com/na/pages/products/pc/xpert99/index.html


 
 
 

Blade 100 & PC Monitors

Post by Ed Tidwel » Tue, 03 Apr 2001 11:22:08


Good question.

Basically what I did was look at the motherboard and read the chip.
Pretty sure I got the right one based on what I saw.
I use to buy only ATI cards until they lost the 3D performance market about 3
years ago.

It looked like a RagePro but you can't always tell a chip by its cover.  :-)

Ed


> Aside from that Rage Pro being a rather crappy video card considering
> nowdays quality 32 MB cards can be had for under 100 bucks), in the Blade's
> component listing on Sun's site it says that the video card is "Sun PGX64
> On-Board Graphics Accelerator."  They are the same thing with a different
> name?

 
 
 

Blade 100 & PC Monitors

Post by Neil Rumbol » Fri, 06 Apr 2001 05:40:01


As far as I am aware it goes as follows:

The on-board chip (PGX24) is a ATI Rage Pro, 24-bit, 4Mb and the PGX32 is a
3DLabs Permedia 2, 32-bit, 8Mb.

PGX64 is an ATI Rage XL, a 64-bit set with 8Mb

All three of the PGX cards will do 8- or 24-bit colour and if there is a
mode they don't support but the chipset spec says it does then it's probably
the drivers.

Take a look at
http://www.sun.com/desktop/products/Graphics/graphicsspecs.pdf to compare
the PGX24 and PGX32 (and Creator3D, Elite3D, Elite3D m3, Elite3D m6 and
Expert3D).

The only PGX64 specs I know of are buried in the SunBlade 100 specs at
http://www.sun.com/desktop/sunblade100/details.html

I find that for all but the most extreme 2D work the 24 and 32 are good
enough but kinda suck for 3D. No idea about the 64 but I expect it isn't too
hot on the 3D front either - but as I don't need 3D I don't care. Sure, 32Mb
PCI cards are cheap but PCI way to slow and they don't come in UPA flavour
;-(

Rgds,

Neil


> Good question.

> Basically what I did was look at the motherboard and read the chip.
> Pretty sure I got the right one based on what I saw.
> I use to buy only ATI cards until they lost the 3D performance market
about 3
> years ago.

> It looked like a RagePro but you can't always tell a chip by its cover.
:-)

> Ed


> > Aside from that Rage Pro being a rather crappy video card considering
> > nowdays quality 32 MB cards can be had for under 100 bucks), in the
Blade's
> > component listing on Sun's site it says that the video card is "Sun
PGX64
> > On-Board Graphics Accelerator."  They are the same thing with a
different
> > name?

 
 
 

Blade 100 & PC Monitors

Post by Don McDonal » Fri, 06 Apr 2001 11:01:31



> Greetings.  Before buying a Blade 100 I'd like someone to clear something up
> for me...

> What limitations must be born in mind in regard to PC monitor use on the



        Matt,

        Funny you should ask...  My Sun Blade 100 arrived on Monday.  I had
bought a new PC the week before so I had my older AOC 19" monitor
available for the little SUN.  In typical SUN fashion, the little
machine screwed up immediately.  Here was the sequence;

        -- cable it all up
        -- power it up
        -- everything seems to work fine
        -- graphics display correctly (text and windows)
        -- answer standard questions about hostname, networking, etc...
        -- system reboots
        -- console messages appear normally
        -- monitor blanks as system goes to CDE
        -- monitor stays blank and goes into power-save mode

        Congratulations SUN on configuring a system as broken right out of
the box!

        Solution;

        Run "m64config".

        -- L1A
        -- boot into single user mode and disable CDE (/usr/dt/bin/dtconfig
-d)
        -- reboot
        -- run "m64config -prconf" and "m64config -pref"
        -- compare results
        -- "Current resolution setting:" is "1280x1024x85"
        -- "Video Mode:" is "1152x900x76"
        -- either edit "/etc/openwin/server/etc/OWconfig" or
        -- run "m64config" to change "Video Mode:" to something your
monitor will display

        When you run "m64config -prconf", you will get output similar to;

--- Hardware Configuration for /dev/fbs/m640 ---
ASIC: version 0x27004752
DAC: version 0x0
PROM: version 100
Card possible resolutions:  720x400x85, 640x480x60, 640x480x72,
640x480x75
        800x600x56, 800x600x60, 800x600x72, 800x600x75, 1024x768x60
        1024x768x70, 1024x768x75, 1280x1024x75, 1024x768x85,
800x600x85
        640x480x85, 1280x1024x60, 1152x900x66, 1152x900x76,
1280x1024x67
        1600x1280x76, 1920x1080x72, 1280x800x76, 1440x900x76
        1600x1000x66, 1600x1000x76, 1920x1200x70, 1280x1024x85
        1280x1024x76, 1152x864x75, 1600x1200x75, 1024x768x85,
800x600x75
        640x480x85, vga, svga, 1152, 1280, 800x600, 1024x768,
1280x1024
        1152x900, 1600x1280, 1920x1080, 1600x1000, 1920x1200,
1600x1200
Monitor possible resolutions:  720x400x70, 640x480x60, 640x480x75
        800x600x75, 1024x768x75, 1280x1024x75, 1280x1024x85,
800x600x75
        vga, 1280, 800x600, 1024x768, 1280x1024
Possible depths:  8, 24
Current resolution setting: 1280x1024x85
Current depth: 24

        When you run "m64config -pref", you will get output similar to;

--- OpenWindows Configuration for /dev/fbs/m640 ---
OWconfig: machine
Video Mode: 1280x1024x85
Depth: 24

        Perhaps your "Card possible resolutions:" and "Monitor possible
resolutions:" will match in "OWconfig" right out of the box.  If
not, you know what to do.  The whole "1152x900x76" res seems weird
anyway.  Perhaps that's a SUN "standard".  That's hardware.  In any
event, hopefully my hour correcting SUN's error will save you at
least that much time.

        BTW; if you do order a Sun Blade 100, I would strongly suggest that
you pay the $100 for the media kit.  Without it, you can't reload
the system in the event it becomes necessary.

                        Hope this helps,
                             Don

--
*************************************************************************
* Don McDonald                  * You a bounty hunter?                  *
* Baltimore, MD                 * Man's gotta earn a livin'             *      
*                               * Dyin' ain't much of a livin', boy     *
*                               * -- Outlaw Josey Wales                 *
*************************************************************************
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Blade 100 & PC Monitors

Post by Kevin Steven » Fri, 06 Apr 2001 12:06:09



Quote:

> Perhaps your "Card possible resolutions:" and "Monitor possible
> resolutions:" will match in "OWconfig" right out of the box.  If
> not, you know what to do.  The whole "1152x900x76" res seems weird
> anyway.  Perhaps that's a SUN "standard".  That's hardware.  In any
> event, hopefully my hour correcting SUN's error will save you at
> least that much time.

I don't see why you get to call it "SUN's error" because you didn't have a
compatible monitor - the default resolution worked just fine on mine.

Quote:> BTW; if you do order a Sun Blade 100, I would strongly suggest that
> you pay the $100 for the media kit.  Without it, you can't reload
> the system in the event it becomes necessary.

Wrong.  All the systems come with Solaris 8 10/00 and 01/01 install boot
disks.  Beginning with those you can use the standard Solaris 8
distribution, freely downloadable from Sun.

KeS

 
 
 

Blade 100 & PC Monitors

Post by Don McDonal » Fri, 06 Apr 2001 14:01:29




> > Perhaps your "Card possible resolutions:" and "Monitor possible
> > resolutions:" will match in "OWconfig" right out of the box.  If
> > not, you know what to do.  The whole "1152x900x76" res seems weird
> > anyway.  Perhaps that's a SUN "standard".  That's hardware.  In any
> > event, hopefully my hour correcting SUN's error will save you at
> > least that much time.
> I don't see why you get to call it "SUN's error"

        I call it that because that's what it is.  Generally I tend to call
a spade, a spade.

Quote:> because you didn't have a compatible monitor

        i.e., a wildly overpriced SUN monitor.

        The reason it took me more than 4 seconds to figure this out is
because at work we use SUN monitors with SUN computers.   Problems
like this only come up when you try to mix-n-match.

Quote:> - the default resolution worked just fine on mine.

        Must be why you're posting using Outlook Express.  Obviously you've
had problems you're not sharing.  Don't feel bad.  That's typical
for SUN equipment and software.  Not everyone has the SA skills to
make it work.  As long as your PC gets you on-line, you can let your
Sun Blade continue to gather dust.

        The "default resolution" is non-standard -- typical for the idiots
at SUN.  Of course in typical SUN fashion they supply tools that
will probe the available resolutions of the card and the monitor but
they neglect to configure those tools into the setup.  The bottom
line is that SUN sells the worst, slowest hardware, and most
terrible UNIX system on the market.  That is quite simply a fact.

Quote:> > BTW; if you do order a Sun Blade 100, I would strongly suggest that
> > you pay the $100 for the media kit.  Without it, you can't reload
> > the system in the event it becomes necessary.
> Wrong.  

        Actually, "RIGHT!".

Quote:> All the systems come with Solaris 8 10/00 and 01/01 install boot
> disks.  Beginning with those you can use the standard Solaris 8
> distribution, freely downloadable from Sun.

        "Freely downloadable from Sun" if you've got lots of time and your
time isn't worth anything.  In practical terms, having the media kit
in hand is well worth the C-note.  There is much in there besides
just SLOWARIS.

                          Hope this helps,
                                Don

--
*************************************************************************
* Don McDonald                  * You a bounty hunter?                  *
* Baltimore, MD                 * Man's gotta earn a livin'             *      
*                               * Dyin' ain't much of a livin', boy     *
*                               * -- Outlaw Josey Wales                 *
*************************************************************************
  http://members.home.net/oldno7

 
 
 

Blade 100 & PC Monitors

Post by Kevin Steven » Fri, 06 Apr 2001 14:33:33


Quote:> > I don't see why you get to call it "SUN's error"

> I call it that because that's what it is.  Generally I tend to call
> a spade, a spade.

> > because you didn't have a compatible monitor

> i.e., a wildly overpriced SUN monitor.

No, any fairly decent monitor can handle the default config.  1152x900x76
isn't exactly smoking along by today's standards.

Quote:> The reason it took me more than 4 seconds to figure this out is
> because at work we use SUN monitors with SUN computers.   Problems
> like this only come up when you try to mix-n-match.

> > - the default resolution worked just fine on mine.

> Must be why you're posting using Outlook Express.  Obviously you've
> had problems you're not sharing.  Don't feel bad.  That's typical
> for SUN equipment and software.  Not everyone has the SA skills to
> make it work.  As long as your PC gets you on-line, you can let your
> Sun Blade continue to gather dust.

Uh, no.  Actually my Intergraph 21 works fine with both the Blade and my
* PC - the dual video hookups make it a simple pushbutton switch back
and forth.  In fact I posted these messages from the PC (at 1600x1200x85),
because that's where I am at the moment.  But I'm not sure how you'd tell
the difference, since I run OE on the Blade as well.  I like it.  The Blade
runs 24/7 - it's my mail and news server, among other things.

Quote:> The "default resolution" is non-standard -- typical for the idiots
> at SUN.  Of course in typical SUN fashion they supply tools that
> will probe the available resolutions of the card and the monitor but
> they neglect to configure those tools into the setup.  The bottom
> line is that SUN sells the worst, slowest hardware, and most
> terrible UNIX system on the market.  That is quite simply a fact.

WTF do you consider "standard" resolution?  640x480? And if you hate Sun so
much, what are you doing on this newsgroup?  Take your vitriolic *
elsewhere.

Quote:> > > BTW; if you do order a Sun Blade 100, I would strongly suggest that
> > > you pay the $100 for the media kit.  Without it, you can't reload
> > > the system in the event it becomes necessary.

> > Wrong.

> Actually, "RIGHT!".

> > All the systems come with Solaris 8 10/00 and 01/01 install boot
> > disks.  Beginning with those you can use the standard Solaris 8
> > distribution, freely downloadable from Sun.

> "Freely downloadable from Sun" if you've got lots of time and your
> time isn't worth anything.  In practical terms, having the media kit
> in hand is well worth the C-note.  There is much in there besides
> just SLOWARIS.

Took a bit over an hour to DL all three images (I wanted the docs as well).
Took under five minutes to start the downloads and walk away.  Took under
five minutes total to start the burn processes and label the CDs.  Pretty
much less time than I've wasted on your pathetic diatribe.

All of which is beside the point - you said that you can't reload the system
without the $100 media kit.  You're still wrong.

KeS

 
 
 

Blade 100 & PC Monitors

Post by Philip Bro » Fri, 06 Apr 2001 14:48:16



>...
>    The "default resolution" is non-standard -- typical for the idiots
>at SUN.

Actually, 1152x900 is completely standard. FOR SUNS.
Some people might get upset at sun if they suddenly started changing their
standards without warning. Unlike some other companies, whose attitude
seems to be "This is our new standard. Learn to love it. Click OK."

--
[Trim the no-bots from my address to reply to me by email!]
[ Do NOT email-CC me on posts. Pick one or the other.]

The word of the day is mispergitude

 
 
 

Blade 100 & PC Monitors

Post by cjt & trefoi » Fri, 06 Apr 2001 15:05:42


<snip>
 The bottom
Quote:> line is that SUN sells the worst, slowest hardware, and most
> terrible UNIX system on the market.  That is quite simply a fact.

<snip>


Quote:>Funny you should ask...  My Sun Blade 100 arrived on Monday.

Just out of curiosity -- if you feel that strongly about it, why did
you buy one?
 
 
 

Blade 100 & PC Monitors

Post by Lyle Merda » Sun, 08 Apr 2001 13:53:47



:> > Perhaps your "Card possible resolutions:" and "Monitor possible
:> > resolutions:" will match in "OWconfig" right out of the box.  If
:> > not, you know what to do.  The whole "1152x900x76" res seems weird
:> > anyway.  Perhaps that's a SUN "standard".  That's hardware.  In any
:> > event, hopefully my hour correcting SUN's error will save you at
:> > least that much time.

:> I don't see why you get to call it "SUN's error"

:       I call it that because that's what it is.  Generally I tend to call
: a spade, a spade.

Well Don if you call a spade, a spade, why don't you call yourself a
whiny idiot who does post some useful info but surrounds it with
biased opinions from someone who hasn't worked in a real datacenter.

Lyle Merdan

 
 
 

Blade 100 & PC Monitors

Post by Brian_Hechinge » Thu, 12 Apr 2001 02:34:50



> because at work we use SUN monitors with SUN computers.   Problems
> like this only come up when you try to mix-n-match.

problems only come up when you mix-n-match and don't have a clue what
you're doing.

Quote:>         The "default resolution" is non-standard -- typical for the idiots
> at SUN.  Of course in typical SUN fashion they supply tools that

i love how these PC morons think they set the standards.  stop throwing
the work standards around when what you really mean to say is "like PCs
do it".

-brian

 
 
 

Blade 100 & PC Monitors

Post by Don McDonal » Thu, 12 Apr 2001 12:04:52



> > > I don't see why you get to call it "SUN's error"
> > I call it that because that's what it is.  Generally I tend to call
> > a spade, a spade.
> > > because you didn't have a compatible monitor
> > i.e., a wildly overpriced SUN monitor.
> No, any fairly decent monitor can handle the default config.  1152x900x76
> isn't exactly smoking along by today's standards.

        It ain't exactly standard PC resolution either, Kev.

Quote:> > The reason it took me more than 4 seconds to figure this out is
> > because at work we use SUN monitors with SUN computers.   Problems
> > like this only come up when you try to mix-n-match.
> > > - the default resolution worked just fine on mine.

        Lucky that you were using SUN's defualt config.

Quote:> > Must be why you're posting using Outlook Express.  Obviously you've
> > had problems you're not sharing.  Don't feel bad.  That's typical
> > for SUN equipment and software.  Not everyone has the SA skills to
> > make it work.  As long as your PC gets you on-line, you can let your
> > Sun Blade continue to gather dust.
> Uh, no.  Actually my Intergraph 21 works fine with both the Blade and my
> * PC - the dual video hookups make it a simple pushbutton switch back
> and forth.  In fact I posted these messages from the PC (at 1600x1200x85),
> because that's where I am at the moment.  But I'm not sure how you'd tell
> the difference, since I run OE on the Blade as well.  I like it.  The Blade
> runs 24/7 - it's my mail and news server, among other things.

        Doesn't PACBELL.NET have a mail or news server?  Most ISPs do.  You
should probably call them up and complain.

Quote:> > The "default resolution" is non-standard -- typical for the idiots
> > at SUN.  Of course in typical SUN fashion they supply tools that
> > will probe the available resolutions of the card and the monitor but
> > they neglect to configure those tools into the setup.  The bottom
> > line is that SUN sells the worst, slowest hardware, and most
> > terrible UNIX system on the market.  That is quite simply a fact.
> WTF do you consider "standard" resolution?  640x480? And if you hate Sun so
> much, what are you doing on this newsgroup?  Take your vitriolic *
> elsewhere.

        You SUN worshipers certainly do hate to see the truth posted.
LOL!  Get over it, SUN hardware and software is the worst on the
market.  They are the WINTEL of UNIX systems.

Quote:> > > > BTW; if you do order a Sun Blade 100, I would strongly suggest that
> > > > you pay the $100 for the media kit.  Without it, you can't reload
> > > > the system in the event it becomes necessary.
> > > Wrong.
> > Actually, "RIGHT!".
> > > All the systems come with Solaris 8 10/00 and 01/01 install boot
> > > disks.  Beginning with those you can use the standard Solaris 8
> > > distribution, freely downloadable from Sun.
> > "Freely downloadable from Sun" if you've got lots of time and your
> > time isn't worth anything.  In practical terms, having the media kit
> > in hand is well worth the C-note.  There is much in there besides
> > just SLOWARIS.
> Took a bit over an hour to DL all three images (I wanted the docs as well).
> Took under five minutes to start the downloads and walk away.  Took under
> five minutes total to start the burn processes and label the CDs.  Pretty
> much less time than I've wasted on your pathetic diatribe.

> All of which is beside the point - you said that you can't reload the system
> without the $100 media kit.  You're still wrong.

        Obviously you aren't aware that the $100 media kit includes well
over three CD-ROMs.

                Happy to have cleared things up for you,
                                Don

--
*************************************************************************
* Don McDonald                  * You a bounty hunter?                  *
* Baltimore, MD                 * Man's gotta earn a livin'             *      
*                               * Dyin' ain't much of a livin', boy     *
*                               * -- Outlaw Josey Wales                 *
*************************************************************************
  http://www.veryComputer.com/

 
 
 

Blade 100 & PC Monitors

Post by Don McDonal » Thu, 12 Apr 2001 12:08:07




> >...
> >       The "default resolution" is non-standard -- typical for the idiots
> >at SUN.
> Actually, 1152x900 is completely standard. FOR SUNS.
> Some people might get upset at sun if they suddenly started changing their
> standards without warning. Unlike some other companies, whose attitude
> seems to be "This is our new standard. Learn to love it. Click OK."

        As I pointed out earlier; plug in a PC monitor and enjoy the black
screen.  That would be OK if the system wasn't able to figure out
the resolutions that both the card and the screen were capable of.
Unlike SLOWARIS, modern software would actually use those numbers to
pick something that was compatable for both.  Then the user would be
prompted to change it to some other mutually compatible resolution
if they so desired.

                                Don
--
*************************************************************************
* Don McDonald                  * You a bounty hunter?                  *
* Baltimore, MD                 * Man's gotta earn a livin'             *      
*                               * Dyin' ain't much of a livin', boy     *
*                               * -- Outlaw Josey Wales                 *
*************************************************************************
  http://members.home.net/oldno7

 
 
 

1. Change boot device on Blade 100 & [laggy] LCD monitor

I've just received my first Sparc workstation [MIT liquidated] and am
having one helluva' time setting the boot device as indicated in the
service manual.  I'm afraid my LCD monitor's lag time to signal display
is hiding the prompt for me to enter my boot args.

Is there any way to go back to the boot arg prompt once the system has
already attempted to boot from net or disk?  Or is there a key to hold
down during boot to force boot from CD ROM?

Presently the system boots to quickly to make adjustments to.

Thanks.

2. -lX11: No such file or directory

3. will swap (new) Sun Blade 100 for best PC

4. Netscape connection Problem......

5. Getting a PC network adapter work in Blade 100 ?

6. USB + PS/2 mouse

7. xmodmap on Blade 100, with PC keyboard: control/Caps swapping

8. How to obtain process ID from socket file descriptor

9. will swap Sun Blade 100 for best PC

10. PC USB-keyboard on SUN Blade 100

11. DSL -> Blade 100 + Windows PC

12. PC USB keyboards on Blade 100

13. FS: Sun Blade 100/2GB Mem/60GB HD/KDS 17" Monitor