NIS+ vs NIS for a small network

NIS+ vs NIS for a small network

Post by Chris Maguir » Fri, 30 Aug 1996 04:00:00



We have a small network consisting of 11 Solaris nodes and 2 SunOS nodes
that are all currently using NIS, served by one of the SunOS nodes.  We
want to convert the NIS master to Solaris 2.5.

We're not particularly concerned with security here.

What do people think about using NIS+ for such a small environment?

Is it enormous overkill?

Are we borrowing trouble?  

The main advantage for us seems to be that NIS+ is more "mainstream"
Sun, and as such might be better supported.  

I've asked Sun Support this question, but they don't seem to have it in
them to recommend against using NIS+.  They did indicate that NIS might
become unsupported at some time in the future.

Do other UNIX vendors, like HP, IBM, etc. support NIS+?

Thanks in advance for your input.

Chris Maguire

 
 
 

NIS+ vs NIS for a small network

Post by Doug Hugh » Sat, 31 Aug 1996 04:00:00



> We have a small network consisting of 11 Solaris nodes and 2 SunOS nodes
> that are all currently using NIS, served by one of the SunOS nodes.  We
> want to convert the NIS master to Solaris 2.5.

> We're not particularly concerned with security here.

> What do people think about using NIS+ for such a small environment?

> Is it enormous overkill?

How many users? Maybe, maybe not. It does use a good sized chunk of memory.
It's more memory/CPU intensive than plain NIS. Still, it would probably
work just fine for you.
Quote:

> Are we borrowing trouble?  

There may or may not be some performance issues.
Quote:

> The main advantage for us seems to be that NIS+ is more "mainstream"
> Sun, and as such might be better supported.  

keep in mind that if you ever have to integrate any other machines, NIS+
won't work. Most everybody else does support NIS though. Maybe it's not
an issue.

Quote:> I've asked Sun Support this question, but they don't seem to have it in
> them to recommend against using NIS+.  They did indicate that NIS might
> become unsupported at some time in the future.

I would say in the far distant future. NIS has been around a long time
and won't be going away any time soon I think. NT is going to be supporting
NIS (I think end of this year beginning of next). Once that happens,
don't expect NIS to be disappearing for a while.

Quote:> Do other UNIX vendors, like HP, IBM, etc. support NIS+?

Not at the moment (that I'm aware)

--
____________________________________________________________________________
Doug Hughes                                     Engineering Network Services
System/Net Admin                                Auburn University


 
 
 

NIS+ vs NIS for a small network

Post by w.. » Sat, 31 Aug 1996 04:00:00


At the risk of starting an argument, I'm going to respond to this post.


Quote:>We have a small network consisting of 11 Solaris nodes and 2 SunOS nodes
>that are all currently using NIS, served by one of the SunOS nodes.  We
>want to convert the NIS master to Solaris 2.5.

>We're not particularly concerned with security here.

>What do people think about using NIS+ for such a small environment?

I would recommend against using NIS+ in that sort of environment.
Although NIS+ certainly has advantages, it has some substantial
drawbacks not the least of which is the rather steep learning curve.
For an environment that small many of the features of NIS+ end up just
getting in the way.

I've also found NIS+ in its current instantiation to be troublesome
and rather tempermental.  Granted, its been about a year since I've
done any serious work with it, but at the time I had to deal with it
there was really no way to troubleshoot many of the problems that one
encounters.  We were constantly hassling with it, and it seemed rather
fragile and bug-ridden.

In the intervening time I am sure that Sun has addressed some of the
problems, especially the bugs.  But learning how to set up and
administer it is still a major undertaking:  NONE of what you already
know about NIS will transfer.  It is a completely different
environment.  It seems to me that the investment in time required to
learn the intricacies of NIS+ (including its quirks) would not be
beneficial for such a small installation.

Quote:>Are we borrowing trouble?  

The transition will likely be difficult, primarily for the
administrator(s).

Quote:>The main advantage for us seems to be that NIS+ is more "mainstream"
>Sun, and as such might be better supported.  

That reason alone would not be enough to convince me to move to NIS+.
Remember NeWS?

Quote:>I've asked Sun Support this question, but they don't seem to have it in
>them to recommend against using NIS+.  

The Sun party line appears to be "NIS+ at all costs".  Yes, they will
always recommend that you use it.

Quote:>They did indicate that NIS might
>become unsupported at some time in the future.

Yes this is a risk.  However, they ARE supporting it now.  Although
NIS server software does not come with Solaris 2, it is easy and cheap
to buy from Sun: the "Name Services Transition Kit".  Sun has fixed
all the bus in NIS that they probably ever will (there's still bugs
and shortcomings, but even while Sun still claims to "support" NIS, no
one is really expecting them to fix the remaining problems).  I
suspect that the NSKit will continue to work on future revisions of
Solaris 2.  Only when we move to the next major version (what one
might call Solaris 3) would this become a major issue.

Quote:>Do other UNIX vendors, like HP, IBM, etc. support NIS+?

And that's one of the major drawbacks of moving to NIS+.  Despite
Sun's prior claims, no one else seems to have jumped on the NIS+
bandwagon.  Sun will tell you, "but NIS+ servers can easily support
NIS clients, thus all your non-Sun equipment will continue to work."
But what they aren't so eager to tell you is that NIS+ will only
provide globally readable data to NIS clients, requiring you to
dispense with nearly all the security benefit that NIS+ gives you in
order to support NIS clients.  If you gain no security benefit, and if
you don't need the hierarchical domain stuff (which small sites rarely
do) then why bother with the added complexity?

NIS has its drawbacks: the security ones being serious and
insurmountable.  But it does have the advantage of being a rather
straightforward implementation.  This makes it easy to administer and
troubleshoot.  (Some people may take me to task for that statement:
perhaps my idea of "easy" is at a different level than others'  :-) )

Don't get me wrong: NIS+ has some great ideas.  The ideal information
distribution system would have many of the features contained in NIS+:
encryption-based security, hierarchical namespace, incremental
updates, fault tolerance, etc.  But NIS+ has too many drawbacks to be
the final answer.

                        William LeFebvre
                        Group sys Consulting

                        +1 770 813 3224

 
 
 

NIS+ vs NIS for a small network

Post by Doug Hugh » Sat, 31 Aug 1996 04:00:00


...much text elided...

Quote:> NIS has its drawbacks: the security ones being serious and
> insurmountable.  But it does have the advantage of being a rather
> straightforward implementation.  This makes it easy to administer and
> troubleshoot.  (Some people may take me to task for that statement:
> perhaps my idea of "easy" is at a different level than others'  :-) )

Serious yes, insurmountable? not in my opinion. It can be secured
from outside attack by following some steps
(e.g. http://www.eng.auburn.edu/users/doug/nis.html). Is it perfect security?
Probably not. Can it be secured against all current holes in NIS? To my
knowledge yes.  Internal NIS security is a little bit more tricky
and subjective. You can use shadow passwords, but they pose some
risks too (rpc.pwdauthd, other security holes may give root access
which may be able to used to get at encrypted password file - but that
same problem exists with NIS+ too).

 Still, with shadow password, router filters, and replacement portmap/rpcbind
daemons, it can be secured pretty tight. Eternal vigilance. If you don't
go through the effort, you're in a world of hurt though.

Quote:> Don't get me wrong: NIS+ has some great ideas.  The ideal information
> distribution system would have many of the features contained in NIS+:
> encryption-based security, hierarchical namespace, incremental
> updates, fault tolerance, etc.  But NIS+ has too many drawbacks to be
> the final answer.

agreed. It's not 'completely' there yet. (we use both in different places)

--
____________________________________________________________________________
Doug Hughes                                     Engineering Network Services
System/Net Admin                                Auburn University

 
 
 

NIS+ vs NIS for a small network

Post by Yong Yew H » Sun, 01 Sep 1996 04:00:00



> We have a small network consisting of 11 Solaris nodes and 2 SunOS nodes
> that are all currently using NIS, served by one of the SunOS nodes.  We
> want to convert the NIS master to Solaris 2.5.

> We're not particularly concerned with security here.

> I've asked Sun Support this question, but they don't seem to have it in
> them to recommend against using NIS+.  They did indicate that NIS might
> become unsupported at some time in the future.

> Do other UNIX vendors, like HP, IBM, etc. support NIS+?

> Thanks in advance for your input.

> Chris Maguire


NIS+ has numerous advantages over NIS.  One of its main features is tighter security.  

NIS is a flat hierachical network domain.  This is partly due to its development during
'80 where the network did not involved more than a hundred clients. It focuses on
stability.  When new account is added, the sys administrators require to do ypmake
manually to update the map file.

NIS+ allows scalability.  You could build the root domain first.  Later if you wants to
re-group the existing domain, you could always build another non-root domain (sub-domain
of root domain).  In other words, you could built domain within domain.  NIS+ allows
incremental changes to the existing map files.  Adding new accounts is being automated
and simple.

At the moment, Sun is only one which NIS+ can be implemented.  After all, NIS+ is
developed and refined by SUN.  However I believe NIS+ would be licenced to and widely
accepted by other vendors, simply because of its superiority over NIS.

You might have difficulty in mastering NIS+ initially.  It is totally different animal.
It's best to refer to a book 'All About Administering NIS+' by Rick Ramsey (Prentice
Hall).

 
 
 

NIS+ vs NIS for a small network

Post by John Belsh » Tue, 03 Sep 1996 04:00:00



Quote:

>We have a small network consisting of 11 Solaris nodes and 2 SunOS nodes
>that are all currently using NIS, served by one of the SunOS nodes.  We
>want to convert the NIS master to Solaris 2.5.

I run a similar sized network and I spent a year living with NIS+ and
not being very happy with it.  I never felt that NIS+ was working
perfectly but I didn't have the time to track down all the small
problems as on the whole it was usable.  For instance I never did
get a Nis+ slaver server running which works first time with nis.

I have just "re-graded" :-) to Niskit 1.2 (NIS for solaris) which seems to
be much more stable just like the old Sunos 4.x nis was.

And niskit IS mainstream Sun so it looks Sun have finally accepted that Nis+
won't be adopted everywhere for various reasons.

My feeling is that unless you spend a lot of time learning Nis+ you will have
a hard time for to get just usable functionality.

Once Bitten Twice Shy,

John Belshaw ESA-ESTEC XEP

 
 
 

NIS+ vs NIS for a small network

Post by Fion » Wed, 04 Sep 1996 04:00:00



> My feeling is that unless you spend a lot of time learning Nis+ you will have
> a hard time for to get just usable functionality.

    ^^^^^^^^^^

  Absolutely agree. NIS+ almost make me die and I can't get any useful  
information from their manual and any help from SUN  Microsoft at all.

:(

Fiona